A Big Ask: Anyone Know A Pedicurist Who Knows How To Prevent Ingrown Toenails?

[tropo]

Cutting.. and it grew back good. But maybe my case was not as severe as those cases. I do know it was grown in and all swollen and had some pus (yellow stuff). But my cutting was not as extreme as in those video's. I did have it a number of times and now it just does not return.

I would have never thought to have gone to a Dr for this, even though i carry insurance.

If you watch all the YouTube videos of ingrown toenail extractions you'll notice that the nail can look perfectly normal on the top and sides yet there is a sharp hook which grows sideways at the base. It's only when this hook gets big it starts to cause irritation, and then infection. These will continue to grow forever unless they are either extracted (as seen in videos) regularly or permanent corrective surgery is done.

Anything which can grow out is not the same thing. A rough nail edge, a damaged nail, but I would not call it an ingrown toe nail. I often get these on fingers if I've damaged a nail, where the side edge digs into the skin and causes irritation and infection...but they grow out.

One person above thought I had a more severe problem, but this is not the case. I merely had the common type of ingrown toenails.... "real" ingrown toenails.

[Jingthing]

I am sorry but there is a major disagreement here and I think its clear the MAYO CLINIC is on my side. The Mayo Clinic website clearly details how people can try the redirect method at home for ingrown toenail cases which are painful and inflamed but not yet seriously infected. They are talking about less advanced cases of ingrown toenail and there is really no doubt about that. I am not suggesting that redirection will necessarily mean a permanent solution but it is something to try that is reasonable medical advice.

Edited January 25, 2013 by Jingthing

[robblok]

Cutting.. and it grew back good. But maybe my case was not as severe as those cases. I do know it was grown in and all swollen and had some pus (yellow stuff). But my cutting was not as extreme as in those video's. I did have it a number of times and now it just does not return.

I would have never thought to have gone to a Dr for this, even though i carry insurance.

If you watch all the YouTube videos of ingrown toenail extractions you'll notice that the nail can look perfectly normal on the top and sides yet there is a sharp hook which grows sideways at the base. It's only when this hook gets big it starts to cause irritation, and then infection. These will continue to grow forever unless they are either extracted (as seen in videos) regularly or permanent corrective surgery is done.

Anything which can grow out is not the same thing. A rough nail edge, a damaged nail, but I would not call it an ingrown toe nail. I often get these on fingers if I've damaged a nail, where the side edge digs into the skin and causes irritation and infection...but they grow out.

One person above thought I had a more severe problem, but this is not the case. I merely had the common type of ingrown toenails.... "real" ingrown toenails.

I have no idea if i have labeled it correctly i can only say infection and as far as i know the nail was not damaged before. Anyway i don't have any problems anymore.

[tropo]

I am sorry but there is a major disagreement here and I think its clear the MAYO CLINIC is on my side. The Mayo Clinic website clearly details how people can try the redirect method at home for ingrown toenail cases which are painful and inflamed but not yet seriously infected. They are talking about less advanced cases of ingrown toenail and there is really no doubt about that. I am not suggesting that redirection will necessarily mean a permanent solution but it is something to try that is reasonable medical advice.

It is quite clear from the illustration what type of ingrown toenail they are referring to. These type of "ingrowns" can be caused by bad cutting or damage and they will grow out.

They're doing a huge disservice to people who actually have ingrown toenails.

You're not the first person on here extolling the virtues of the Mayo Clinic. Who needs a podiatrist when you have the Mayo Clinic and a simple illustration showing you exactly how it is treated?

Seriously, does it look like the Mayo Clinic has made an effort to address this condition - with a single illustration and one paragraph?

Edited January 25, 2013 by tropo

[tropo]

I have no idea if i have labeled it correctly i can only say infection and as far as i know the nail was not damaged before. Anyway i don't have any problems anymore.

It takes a surprisingly little amount of damage to cause irritation and subsequent infection. All it takes is to damage bit of the nail bed when you're clipping them. .

[Tolley]

Podiatrists are really good with toenails and if they are not too badly infected it only takes them a short time to fix the problem.

If a podiatrist cant help then I suppose surgery is a last option but majority of cases podiatrists can fix ingrown toenails cheaply and easily.

Edited January 25, 2013 by Tolley

[tropo]

Podiatrists are really good with toenails and if they are too badly infected it only takes them a short time to fix the problem.

If a podiatrist cant help then I suppose surgery is a last option but majority of cases podiatrists can fix ingrown toenails cheaply and easily.

They can't fix them, they can only take them out. If you don't mind visiting a podiatrist once every 2 months or so, then ok, but to fix them you need the surgery. Extracting them causes a fair bit of trauma though and bandaging for a few days so it is not really the best way to go.

I don't know you call cheap, but the surgery (nail bed ablation) costs around $600 - $800 or so in Oz, including follow ups.

Edited January 25, 2013 by tropo

[Tolley]

Podiatrists are really good with toenails and if they are too badly infected it only takes them a short time to fix the problem.

If a podiatrist cant help then I suppose surgery is a last option but majority of cases podiatrists can fix ingrown toenails cheaply and easily.

They can't fix them, they can only take them out. If you don't mind visiting a podiatrist once every 2 months or so, then ok, but to fix them you need the surgery. Extracting them causes a fair bit of trauma though and bandaging for a few days so it is not really the best way to go.

I don't know you call cheap, but the surgery (nail bed ablation) costs around $600 - $800 or so in Oz, including follow ups.

I lost so many toenails playing squash that I lost count. Often the nail grew back poorly and would start growing into the skin but a quick trip to the podiatrist fixed it and I never had to have surgery and it didnt require multiple trips. Maybe my situation wasnt a real ingrown toenail so I cant be sure if it works for everyone that way.

[tropo]

I lost so many toenails playing squash that I lost count. Often the nail grew back poorly and would start growing into the skin but a quick trip to the podiatrist fixed it and I never had to have surgery and it didnt require multiple trips. Maybe my situation wasnt a real ingrown toenail so I cant be sure if it works for everyone that way.

The first time I visited an Ozzie podiatrist he extracted the ingrown toenails and suggested I have surgery. At the time he recommended surgery from a doctor - this was before they perfected the new method of using chemicals to kill the growth cells in the nail bed. It is now down by a podiatrist.

Definitely your situation wasn't a typical ingrown toe nail. As I said, if it can grow out it's likely just nail damage that can be easily remedied.

Edited January 25, 2013 by tropo

[Jingthing]

I am sorry but there is a major disagreement here and I think its clear the MAYO CLINIC is on my side. The Mayo Clinic website clearly details how people can try the redirect method at home for ingrown toenail cases which are painful and inflamed but not yet seriously infected. They are talking about less advanced cases of ingrown toenail and there is really no doubt about that. I am not suggesting that redirection will necessarily mean a permanent solution but it is something to try that is reasonable medical advice.

It is quite clear from the illustration what type of ingrown toenail they are referring to. These type of "ingrowns" can be caused by bad cutting or damage and they will grow out.

They're doing a huge disservice to people who actually have ingrown toenails.

You're not the first person on here extolling the virtues of the Mayo Clinic. Who needs a podiatrist when you have the Mayo Clinic and a simple illustration showing you exactly how it is treated?

Seriously, does it look like the Mayo Clinic has made an effort to address this condition - with a single illustration and one paragraph?

I don't think there is even ONE real podiatrist in Pattaya based on my research. If someone can refer my to an actual PODIATRIST in Pattaya, please do. Also, I don't count that European guy who is clearly focused on selling everyone custom made shoes.

You advocate people doing surgery on their own feet and/or going to nail salons with non-sterile conditions to do blood drawing surgery. No ethical doctor would recommend those practices. I refer to the Mayo Clinic online service and that's supposedly irresponsible.

Referring to the Mayo Clinic websites, one of most respected global sources of medical info for the public doesn't need any defending. Of course no website can replace qualified medical advice from a qualified medical professional. That's an obvious given.

You want the expanded Mayo Clinic links? Here they are. Look, there are DIFFERENT kinds of cases of ingrown toenails. Your own experience does not reflect the world of ingrown toenails.

http://www.mayoclini...d-home-remedies

You can treat most ingrown toenails at home. Here's how:

Here is the beginning of a longish article from the Mayo Clinic. You have to click through the pages to view all the material:

http://www.mayoclini...oenails/DS00111

An ingrown toenail is a common condition in which the corner or side of one of your toenails grows into the soft flesh of that toe. The result is pain, redness, swelling and, sometimes, an infection. An ingrown toenail usually affects your big toe.

Often you can take care of ingrown toenails on your own. If the pain is severe or spreading, however, your doctor can take steps to relieve your discomfort and help you avoid complications of an ingrown toenail.

In addition based on info I have read widely, if you do try to treat this condition at home when there is major redness and pain, try it for a few days and if the condition gets WORSE, give up and rush to seek whatever medical service you can find.

Edited January 25, 2013 by Jingthing

[tropo]

I think this post has become more about defending the Mayo Clinic than anything else.

If you've got real ingrown toenails, nails which grow sideways at the base into the flesh, you will either need surgery or have them cut out regularly. There is no other way. Here that will require you to learn to do it yourself as per the videos I posted, or find a girl who can do it.

If you have a minor problem with the nail causing thickened skin and irritation on the side, then by all means, grow them out. That's doable. I have the same problem with fingernails from time to time.

It's pretty simple really. It doesn't take much to figure out which problem you have. Just get a pointed instrument and poke around. If you have pain right at the base, you have real ingrowns. If the pain is in the middle only or near the top, it's just rough edges and can be taken care of without surgery. A little bit of investigation by poking around will tell you which problem you have.

That treatment method you linked from your esteemed Mayo Clinic will not help one bit if you have a nail ingrown near the base, which is where most of them originate. It would be impossible to put cotton under the nail, so guess that - I consider that treatment useless (even nonsense) for most cases of ingrown toenails.

Is that is the best your Mayo Clinic can offer? They don't mention a thing about real ingrowns requiring surgery.

You'd be better off checking out some podiatry sites for good information.

Perhaps it's time to close the thread, because you've made up your mind what you're going to do.

Good luck!

[Jingthing]

Reading a number of sources, the suggestion of trying the redirection for ingrown toenails comes up consistently. It is an established therapy. Also note in other sources I have seen the wedges are placed down the entire length of the side of the nail not just near the top. In my case I am trying to get the wedges in to cover the entire length of the side; it's a little tricky for me though. Obviously cases differ. Will it work for all cases of ingrown toenails? No way.

Another point. You can't just force these wedges down your nail sides. You need to first SOAK in VERY HOT water (and preferably epsom salts) to soften the area making it much easier to move the nail away from the skin. Also yes it is rather PAINFUL to force these wedges in at first and it may be for some time after, but I have found the "procedure" pain goes away rather quickly in my case.

Also, there is no way I can know the future and know if what I am trying is going to work for me long term. I may be on my way to total nail removal, how can I know? I'm trying to deal with it, that's all. I think the suggestion of seeing a WESTERN podiatrist is a good one but this being Thailand there is an issue with the level of podiatry here.

Tropo, again, I thank you for your reference to a nail person which I might end of using in some capacity. I actually haven't decided on a long term strategy. I am pretty clear what I HAVE been doing in the past has set me up for some problems.

Edited January 26, 2013 by Jingthing

[bkk_mike]

I had an ingrown toenail, but I pulled too hard on a stuck drawer and it pulled right out and landed on my big toe, badly bruising it. A couple of days later, the nail came off.

Since the nail grew back (possibly as I wear sandals rather than shoes most of the time these days, I've had no ingrown toenail problem. It might come back though. My Dad ended up getting surgery for convoluting toenails...

[Jingthing]

OK, I decided to start a new, more general, topic about toenail health grooming and ingrown issues in the health forum.

As far as the problem in the thread, I kept the cotton in and the nail seems to have grown better, not causing pain anymore. I decided for the time being, or maybe for good, to avoid pedicures in Thailand and do my own foot care. My opinion is that using them set me up for the problems I developed.

[NanLaew]

Badly done pedicures are a primary cause of non-genetic ingrown toenails in LOS where the majority of sufferers wear open-toe shoes or sandals versus formal shoes. The pedicurist will dig around at the edges, pluck out bits of cuticle and damage the nail bed. Then it becomes a vicious circle where the only (temporary) relief is for several days immediately following another gouge and hack job pedicure. I only ever had an ingrowing toenail once and that was primarily from bad safety boots I had to wear to work in combination with my own excessive cutting of the sides of the nail. In the end, a Glasgow-educated Pakistani doctor in Islamabad chopped away about quarter inch on the side of the most badly affected toenail for instant and lasting relief He did suggest that if the problem returned, then it may need more radical ablation of the nail bed. If one ever does have the nail and nail bed removed due to the repeated severity of the issue, only then does a pedicurist have any value in being able to glue on a false nail which in my opinion, is all these buggers are good for.

[Jingthing]

Yes, I totally agree. Using pedicurists in Thailand can be dangerous to your health in multiple ways. I'd like more people to be aware of these dangers and perhaps avoid even getting STARTED with using them. Because once they tear out your cuticles and then later start cutting sides, you're set up for a long term problem. That is another reason I decided to start the thread in the health forum to help raise awareness. Cheers.

[poanoi]

A friend of mine had them ripped off and burned where they grow,

alas he dont have a problem any more

[Jingthing]

A friend of mine had them ripped off and burned where they grow,

alas he dont have a problem any more

Sounds like a plan. Yes, sometimes it comes to that.

If I have my head cut off and stump burned, I'll stop having these hallucinations about being Napoleon Bonaparte ...

Edited February 14, 2013 by Jingthing

[Morden]

From my own experience in the past, once an ingrown nail has cut a path for itself, prevention is very difficult. I had one become badly infected and it was a toss up between losing the nail or the toe. They did the former in hospital. I never had the problem again, of course, so to hell with the aesthetics.

I'd be inclined to have a consultation at a good private hospital and then apply your own common sense to their answer, bearing in mind that they are looking for work and profit. If a hospital can completely remove the excess growth, better than can a pedicurist, then keep your nails them short and let your toes spread either in open toed footwear or big, broad-toed shoes.

Edited February 14, 2013 by Morden

[watcharacters]

This guy is my hero.

That's what I was dealing with. A huge hook growing sideways at the base. If this is what you've got there's only one way - cutting it out.

I had 4 of these to deal with....

As I said, $550 and I'll never have another problem.

dam_n,

Sorry to see that. Painful for sure.

good luck.

[Jingthing]

Curious if you do remove the entire toenail, can you put in a cosmetic fake nail for show?

[jombom]

A long time ago, playing football, ingrown toenails were a common problem. We always used the rolled up cotton technique under the nail. It guides the path of the nail and gradually lifts it out. Always worked, but takes a few days ,of course.

Playing football puts the foot under pressure from two sources, one from the ground and the other from kicking the ball. Nails take a lot of abuse.

[Jingthing]

My research tells me that the redirecting strategy quite often DOES work. But much better chance if you catch the problem at an earlier stage before a serious infection. I am using that method and the jury is out whether it's going to prevent the problem long term. As far as length of nails, many sources tell me it is important not to cut toenails TOO SHORT, that actually the nail should at least stick out a bit over the top of the side groove.

[tropo]

From my own experience in the past, once an ingrown nail has cut a path for itself, prevention is very difficult. I had one become badly infected and it was a toss up between losing the nail or the toe. They did the former in hospital. I never had the problem again, of course, so to hell with the aesthetics.

I'd be inclined to have a consultation at a good private hospital and then apply your own common sense to their answer, bearing in mind that they are looking for work and profit. If a hospital can completely remove the excess growth, better than can a pedicurist, then keep your nails them short and let your toes spread either in open toed footwear or big, broad-toed shoes.

Good luck at a "good private hospital" in Thailand. Before I found my "nail girl" in Pattaya I had to visit the PIH because one of my big toes had quite an infection. The idiot doctor had a look at it and prescribed me antibiotics without any word about removing the cause of the infection. I walked out in disgust.

[bender92]

Curious if you do remove the entire toenail, can you put in a cosmetic fake nail for show?

I had a fingernail removed years ago, the skin under was very tough, the nail grew back nd now I can't tell which one it was. Toes should grow back too.

[Jingthing]

Since this thread has come alive again, I think I'll post an update.

I have sworn off pedicurists in Thailand. Period.

I am now cutting my own toenails using a STRAIGHT toenail cutter I brought from the USA.

Interestingly I've only seen curved toenail cutters for sale in Thailand. I want to buy a new one but it's got to be straight. Cutting the toenails straight is the proper method.

Anyway, I'm rather uncoordinated so the job I do on my own toenails isn't especially pretty. That's not nice as I have been wearing sandals everywhere. But stopping pain and not heading for toenail surgery or total removal was a higher priority.

As it has been some months now, I assume the natural healthy cuticles (that the manicurist kept removing) have grown back. I only cut the top of the nails, NOT TOO SHORT, straight, then file them a bit (one direction) and NEVER touch the sides of the nails. So far, so good. The initial therapy of using cotton to redirect the irritating ingrown growth (I used on BOTH big toes) seems to have worked. The pain is gone and I am feeling fairly confident I've got this problem licked.

Rather amusingly, my pedicure lady who does my haircuts as well, was curious why I won't use her anymore. She is certain I am "cheating" on her and using someone else. If she actually looked at my toes, she would know differently, I do an ugly job. When I told her I am doing this myself, she laughed and said she didn't believe I COULD do it myself. She's right, I couldn't and wouldn't do all the damage she was doing. I told her in my home country the vast majority of men never get a pedicure in their life and she looked incredulous.

Edited April 30, 2013 by Jingthing

[poanoi]

If anyone finds a place that sells straight cutters in pattaya, i would want to know

[tropo]

Since this thread has come alive again, I think I'll post an update.

I have sworn off pedicurists in Thailand. Period.

I am now cutting my own toenails using a STRAIGHT toenail cutter I brought from the USA.

Interestingly I've only seen curved toenail cutters for sale in Thailand. I want to buy a new one but it's got to be straight. Cutting the toenails straight is the proper method.

Anyway, I'm rather uncoordinated so the job I do on my own toenails isn't especially pretty. That's not nice as I have been wearing sandals everywhere. But stopping pain and not heading for toenail surgery or total removal was a higher priority.

As it has been some months now, I assume the natural healthy cuticles (that the manicurist kept removing) have grown back. I only cut the top of the nails, NOT TOO SHORT, straight, then file them a bit (one direction) and NEVER touch the sides of the nails. So far, so good. The initial therapy of using cotton to redirect the irritating ingrown growth (I used on BOTH big toes) seems to have worked. The pain is gone and I am feeling fairly confident I've got this problem licked.

Rather amusingly, my pedicure lady who does my haircuts as well, was curious why I won't use her anymore. She is certain I am "cheating" on her and using someone else. If she actually looked at my toes, she would know differently, I do an ugly job. When I told her I am doing this myself, she laughed and said she didn't believe I COULD do it myself. She's right, I couldn't and wouldn't do all the damage she was doing. I told her in my home country the vast majority of men never get a pedicure in their life and she looked incredulous.

If you cut them dead straight, they're always going to look ugly. You can still stop the nail edges from digging in while giving the nail a natural aesthetic curve. Obviously a curve is the natural way, that's why they make nail cutters in a curved shape.

[Jingthing]

Since this thread has come alive again, I think I'll post an update.

I have sworn off pedicurists in Thailand. Period.

I am now cutting my own toenails using a STRAIGHT toenail cutter I brought from the USA.

Interestingly I've only seen curved toenail cutters for sale in Thailand. I want to buy a new one but it's got to be straight. Cutting the toenails straight is the proper method.

Anyway, I'm rather uncoordinated so the job I do on my own toenails isn't especially pretty. That's not nice as I have been wearing sandals everywhere. But stopping pain and not heading for toenail surgery or total removal was a higher priority.

As it has been some months now, I assume the natural healthy cuticles (that the manicurist kept removing) have grown back. I only cut the top of the nails, NOT TOO SHORT, straight, then file them a bit (one direction) and NEVER touch the sides of the nails. So far, so good. The initial therapy of using cotton to redirect the irritating ingrown growth (I used on BOTH big toes) seems to have worked. The pain is gone and I am feeling fairly confident I've got this problem licked.

Rather amusingly, my pedicure lady who does my haircuts as well, was curious why I won't use her anymore. She is certain I am "cheating" on her and using someone else. If she actually looked at my toes, she would know differently, I do an ugly job. When I told her I am doing this myself, she laughed and said she didn't believe I COULD do it myself. She's right, I couldn't and wouldn't do all the damage she was doing. I told her in my home country the vast majority of men never get a pedicure in their life and she looked incredulous.

If you cut them dead straight, they're always going to look ugly. You can still stop the nail edges from digging in while giving the nail a natural aesthetic curve. Obviously a curve is the natural way, that's why they make nail cutters in a curved shape.

No. PROPER toenail cutters are straight. Fingernail cutters are curved. I wish I could cut my toenails perfectly straight even with proper straight cutters. Easier said than done.

The most common place for ingrown nails is in the big toe, but ingrowth

can occur on any nail. As ingrown nails are not present in people who

are habitually barefoot, the best prevention for ingrown nails is not to

wear shoes at all, however ingrown nails can be avoided by cutting

nails straight across; nails should not be cut along a curve, nor should

they be cut too short.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ingrown_nail

Proper and improper toenail trimming.

http://orthoinfo.aaos.org/topic.cfm?topic=A00154

Edited April 30, 2013 by Jingthing

[tropo]

Since this thread has come alive again, I think I'll post an update.

I have sworn off pedicurists in Thailand. Period.

I am now cutting my own toenails using a STRAIGHT toenail cutter I brought from the USA.

Interestingly I've only seen curved toenail cutters for sale in Thailand. I want to buy a new one but it's got to be straight. Cutting the toenails straight is the proper method.

Anyway, I'm rather uncoordinated so the job I do on my own toenails isn't especially pretty. That's not nice as I have been wearing sandals everywhere. But stopping pain and not heading for toenail surgery or total removal was a higher priority.

As it has been some months now, I assume the natural healthy cuticles (that the manicurist kept removing) have grown back. I only cut the top of the nails, NOT TOO SHORT, straight, then file them a bit (one direction) and NEVER touch the sides of the nails. So far, so good. The initial therapy of using cotton to redirect the irritating ingrown growth (I used on BOTH big toes) seems to have worked. The pain is gone and I am feeling fairly confident I've got this problem licked.

Rather amusingly, my pedicure lady who does my haircuts as well, was curious why I won't use her anymore. She is certain I am "cheating" on her and using someone else. If she actually looked at my toes, she would know differently, I do an ugly job. When I told her I am doing this myself, she laughed and said she didn't believe I COULD do it myself. She's right, I couldn't and wouldn't do all the damage she was doing. I told her in my home country the vast majority of men never get a pedicure in their life and she looked incredulous.

If you cut them dead straight, they're always going to look ugly. You can still stop the nail edges from digging in while giving the nail a natural aesthetic curve. Obviously a curve is the natural way, that's why they make nail cutters in a curved shape.

No. PROPER toenail cutters are straight. Fingernail cutters are curved. I wish I could cut my toenails perfectly straight even with proper straight cutters. Easier said than done.

>>The most common place for ingrown nails is in the big toe, but ingrowth

can occur on any nail. As ingrown nails are not present in people who

are habitually barefoot, the best prevention for ingrown nails is not to

wear shoes at all, however ingrown nails can be avoided by cutting

nails straight across; nails should not be cut along a curve, nor should

they be cut too short.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ingrown_nail

Proper and improper toenail trimming.

http://orthoinfo.aaos.org/topic.cfm?topic=A00154

That "proper" cut is not straight, it's curved. You're not going to be able to get that contour with a straight cutter. The "improper" illustration has rounded corners, which is different. There's nothing wrong with rounded corners as long as you file them smooth. True ingrown nails have nothing to do with the top edges - it's pieces of sharp nail growing sideways at the base. You obviously don't have this.

Cutting down the side can start ingrown "hooks" at the base because the nail cannot be trimmed all the way to the base and they rip it out from the base when they cut down the side - this is the problem with pedicures here, not the contour of the top edge.

Really this whole idea of what is "proper" and "improper" is just an opinion. It's cosmetic when it only concerns the top edge. I'm not interested in walking around with ugly straight nail edges so I'll keep clipping mine properly with curved clippers... but don't kid yourself thinking that carefully rounded corners will start ingrown nails.

Edited April 30, 2013 by tropo