Bring Out Truth About Tak Bai: Rights Advocate

[Buchholz]

Who were classmates/relatives appointed by the PM and who were following the policies the PM had established for the South.

Thaksin's influence on the appointment of some senior officers is not an explanation, just an unimpressive attempt on your part to exculpate the army.

Many senior officers involved in the Tak Bai incident who had no connection with Thaksin.

No, it is not exculpation on my part. As I've said before, all involved are culpable and responsible. Army, Police, and Thaksin. You really excel at continually misrepresenting what others post.

All of the officers involved being junior to the Army Commander-in Chief, who Thaksin's closet Army connection, his blood relative. Not to mention the lengthy list, posted earlier, of far more senior officers than those that you allude to but yet don't name.

The key point is that no punishment was accorded to any of the army criminals involved

and nor has it been accorded to the cognizant government official criminals involved nor the police criminals involved.

We can agree on that, as once again, let's hold all those responsible for being culpable..

and Abhisit's government with no brief for Thaksin(to put it mildly) did nothing at all about it.

and following the date of your HRW link, nor did Samak's government and nor did Somchai's government, and nor has Yingluck's government.

On that, too, we can agree.

.

.

Edited February 19, 2013 by Buchholz

[Moruya]

I don't think they support drugs either: "We will completely destroy the vices that corrupt our society of Malayu Muslims." though I am aware that the vices they refer to encompass a variety of "society corruptants" - take your pick.

How does this relate to the Tak Bai incident?

Are you attempting to make excuses on Thaksin's behalf?

Are you trolling or just forgetful? Do you remember adding the war on drugs to the Tak Bai incident as a reason why there is an insurgency in the south and I asked you why?

You replied "because of deaths caused by armed forces" presumably during the "war on drugs".

I provided a manifesto from one of the insurgent groups pointing out that they wanted their "Pattani" back and would destroy anything Thai in order to do so and stated that it was a more logical reason for the insurgency than your war on drugs reason. I also tounge in cheek suggested as they wished to get rid of all vices, that they would probably have supported the "war on drugs"

And then you come up with the nonsense above. OK? If you need anything else explaining don't bother asking, I've wasted more than enough time on you than is necessary.

I'm sure that society harbours grudges about all instances of civilian death - not just Tak Bai.

Your manifesto, verbose as it is when compared to the PTP counterpart, is irrelevant.

Civilians died, grudges are still harboured, closure needs to be seen.

[Buchholz]

This cannot be done because the impunity of the military and politicians to carry out atrocities against Southern muslims must be protected at all costs. This is systemic and involves a large number of officials and politicians. It is not restricted to a few isolated incidents like Tak Bai and has been going on for a long time. To open the Pandora's box is unthinkable and put senior military, police and politicians in jail is not going to happen.

Indeed. Lots of entities involved. All culpable and none accountable.

.

[dcutman]

@Simple1 (Quote error)

Yeh but what do you expect from somebody not interested in the truth about their beloved and family members. Of course you dont see to many members of the R.U.B. offering links to make a reasonable argument. They only demand evidence or proof and when that is presented either the reply goes of topic or eerily silent.

[philw]

@Simple1 (Quote error)

Yeh but what do you expect from somebody not interested in the truth about their beloved and family members. Of course you dont see to many members of the R.U.B. offering links to make a reasonable argument. They only demand evidence or proof and when that is presented either the reply goes of topic or eerily silent.

Have I missed something, what's the RUB ???

[ramrod711]

Deputy Prime Minister Chalerm Yoobamrung may have good intentions but he lacks understanding about the situation,

I strongly question whether Chalerm would recognize a good intention if it jumped up and slapped him in the face.

[GentlemanJim]

I shiver when I read some of the posts on this thread. I cannot believe that there are so many 'educated, rational' people, that could apologise for Thaksin in the case of Tak Bai, yet claim that Abhisit is responsible personally for army shootings in 2010. Yes they were two very different situations that demanded a national security response of some type. One a fairly peaceful demonstration of 1500 people, the other the overtaking of a city center by 10 000 whose leaders were issuing death threats to members of the army, encouraging the invading of hospitals and encouraging the burning down of the city. One could have been managed with a dispersal strategy, the other, despite weeks of negotiations resulting in all the demands of the protestors being met required a crackdown that any other western country would have implemented long before (but of course they would have used a willing and compliant police force, something that suddenly went missing in Bangkok), in order to serve the interests of public safety and national economy.

It doesn't take someone with a brain the size of a rocket scientist to work out that the reason nobody in the army or police was ever found guilty of Tak Bai was that Thaksin's family and close friends were at the most senior positions in both.

[dcutman]

@Simple1 (Quote error)

Yeh but what do you expect from somebody not interested in the truth about their beloved and family members. Of course you dont see to many members of the R.U.B. offering links to make a reasonable argument. They only demand evidence or proof and when that is presented either the reply goes of topic or eerily silent.

Have I missed something, what's the RUB ???

Not sure when the phrase was coined, It has been some time back. The acronym is easier to use.

Part of one of your recent discussions might bring it back to you.

philw, on 2013-01-15 20:53:51, said:

Meanwhile, Thailand goes forwards, the PM's popularity rises, the economy strengthens, major long term infrastructure is being planned and implemented, the 300 minimum wage has not caused the economy to collapse, military tension with neighbouring countries is on the wane, Thai involvement with ASEAN is growing, BOI applications and approvals are high ( if not at record levels ), the military top brass seem to be cooperating with the Government and tourism is up.

This must hurt some on here.

Red underpants brigade?

[Ricardo]

Coincidentally, I just noticed that it can also stand, for Reds Under the Bed !

[hellodolly]

This incident truly showed Thaksin's utter disregard for human life-" They died because they were weak from fasting in Ramadan'' .

No one was punished for the 86 deaths.

Thaksin made a very big mistake when he abolished the Southern Border Provinces Administrative Centre (SBPAC), an organisation linking all participants in southern Thailand.

Thaksin's comments were certainly repellent but the primary guilty party was the Thai army, a rather crucial point which so far on this thread comments have managed to avoid mentioning.Predictably it seems that even in respect of this terrible tragedy some prefer to concentrate on Thaksin than on the criminal brutality of the army.

Are you saying that the Army operated on there own with no direction from Thaksin.

I find that hard to believe being as he approved of there actions.

Have you any proof that the army was not acting under the direction of Thaksin.

If it wasn't would it not make sense to distance himself from the situation instead of praising them?

Then again Thaksin and his supporters have very little to do with common sense.

It is more a money thing to them.

[philw]

@Simple1 (Quote error)

Yeh but what do you expect from somebody not interested in the truth about their beloved and family members. Of course you dont see to many members of the R.U.B. offering links to make a reasonable argument. They only demand evidence or proof and when that is presented either the reply goes of topic or eerily silent.

Have I missed something, what's the RUB ???

Not sure when the phrase was coined, It has been some time back. The acronym is easier to use.

Part of one of your recent discussions might bring it back to you.

philw, on 2013-01-15 20:53:51, said:

Meanwhile, Thailand goes forwards, the PM's popularity rises, the economy strengthens, major long term infrastructure is being planned and implemented, the 300 minimum wage has not caused the economy to collapse, military tension with neighbouring countries is on the wane, Thai involvement with ASEAN is growing, BOI applications and approvals are high ( if not at record levels ), the military top brass seem to be cooperating with the Government and tourism is up.

This must hurt some on here.

Red underpants brigade?

Ah, forgive me, how very clever.

Worthy, almost, of a 5th form common room.

Edited February 19, 2013 by philw

[dcutman]

I shiver when I read some of the posts on this thread. I cannot believe that there are so many 'educated, rational' people, that could apologise for Thaksin in the case of Tak Bai, yet claim that Abhisit is responsible personally for army shootings in 2010. Yes they were two very different situations that demanded a national security response of some type. One a fairly peaceful demonstration of 1500 people, the other the overtaking of a city center by 10 000 whose leaders were issuing death threats to members of the army, encouraging the invading of hospitals and encouraging the burning down of the city. One could have been managed with a dispersal strategy, the other, despite weeks of negotiations resulting in all the demands of the protestors being met required a crackdown that any other western country would have implemented long before (but of course they would have used a willing and compliant police force, something that suddenly went missing in Bangkok), in order to serve the interests of public safety and national economy.

It doesn't take someone with a brain the size of a rocket scientist to work out that the reason nobody in the army or police was ever found guilty of Tak Bai was that Thaksin's family and close friends were at the most senior positions in both.

I know you want to be fair GJim but I am not sure how loosely you can use and describe "Rational".

[hellodolly]

Sorry quotes got me again.

Muttley the writing style and content of your posts are exactly the same as another TVF member that stop posting some time ago. Are you a previous member and have re-joined under a new name?

Join the queue, so far I've been accused of being two other previous posters, perhaps I should hold a lottery? In the meantime if you have something to say to counter what I've written rather than its style or lack thereof, please do so.

No offence meant. I just asked you a simple question. Are you a former member or not. Very simple yes or no question. I would certainly answer it if I was asked. I have nothing to hide.

Nor have I

Ok so silence implies consent. Welcome back to TVF.

Not sure if he is new or a retread dosen't really make a difference. He is making some sense here. I know not doglike but never the less some sense.

[jayboy]

I shiver when I read some of the posts on this thread. I cannot believe that there are so many 'educated, rational' people, that could apologise for Thaksin in the case of Tak Bai, yet claim that Abhisit is responsible personally for army shootings in 2010. Yes they were two very different situations that demanded a national security response of some type. One a fairly peaceful demonstration of 1500 people, the other the overtaking of a city center by 10 000 whose leaders were issuing death threats to members of the army, encouraging the invading of hospitals and encouraging the burning down of the city. One could have been managed with a dispersal strategy, the other, despite weeks of negotiations resulting in all the demands of the protestors being met required a crackdown that any other western country would have implemented long before (but of course they would have used a willing and compliant police force, something that suddenly went missing in Bangkok), in order to serve the interests of public safety and national economy.

It doesn't take someone with a brain the size of a rocket scientist to work out that the reason nobody in the army or police was ever found guilty of Tak Bai was that Thaksin's family and close friends were at the most senior positions in both.

The difference was that Abhisit was directly involved in the suppression and consequent deaths in 2010.Thaksin had no knowledge of Tak Bai until after the event.Rather a significant difference I would have thought.

As to why no security official was charged for Tak Bai your suggestion is absurd.The reasons are quite complex and primarily relate to the longstanding non accountability for cimes by the armed forces.In any event your Enid Blyton theory doesn't tackle the issue of why nothing was done when Abhisit was in power.

[dcutman]

@Simple1 (Quote error)

Yeh but what do you expect from somebody not interested in the truth about their beloved and family members. Of course you dont see to many members of the R.U.B. offering links to make a reasonable argument. They only demand evidence or proof and when that is presented either the reply goes of topic or eerily silent.

Have I missed something, what's the RUB ???

Not sure when the phrase was coined, It has been some time back. The acronym is easier to use.

Part of one of your recent discussions might bring it back to you.

philw, on 2013-01-15 20:53:51, said:

Meanwhile, Thailand goes forwards, the PM's popularity rises, the economy strengthens, major long term infrastructure is being planned and implemented, the 300 minimum wage has not caused the economy to collapse, military tension with neighbouring countries is on the wane, Thai involvement with ASEAN is growing, BOI applications and approvals are high ( if not at record levels ), the military top brass seem to be cooperating with the Government and tourism is up.

This must hurt some on here.

Red underpants brigade?

Ah, forgive me, how very clever.

Worthy, almost, of a 5th form common room.

Yeh I know. I wish I knew who to footnote credit to.

[Thai at Heart]

At the end of the day, someone ordered these people to be piled onto each other in trucks.

Animals don't get herded like that. How far up the chain it goes who knows, but someone ordered it.

[hellodolly]

@Simple1 (Quote error)

Yeh but what do you expect from somebody not interested in the truth about their beloved and family members. Of course you dont see to many members of the R.U.B. offering links to make a reasonable argument. They only demand evidence or proof and when that is presented either the reply goes of topic or eerily silent.

Have I missed something, what's the RUB ???

Not sure when the phrase was coined, It has been some time back. The acronym is easier to use.

Part of one of your recent discussions might bring it back to you.

philw, on 2013-01-15 20:53:51, said:

Meanwhile, Thailand goes forwards, the PM's popularity rises, the economy strengthens, major long term infrastructure is being planned and implemented, the 300 minimum wage has not caused the economy to collapse, military tension with neighbouring countries is on the wane, Thai involvement with ASEAN is growing, BOI applications and approvals are high ( if not at record levels ), the military top brass seem to be cooperating with the Government and tourism is up.

This must hurt some on here.

Red underpants brigade?

Don't beat around the bush here if you have some thing to say say it. Let us all know what it is.

[khunken]

It's not just Tak Bai & Krue Be that the Thaksin regime was responsible for - it is the escalation of the violence since Thaksin came to power (by manipulation).

In 2001 he abolished the Southern Border Provinces Admin Centre (SBPAC) which was an amalgamation of military, police & local officials. This was like the proverbial bull in a china shop. After that, the south virtually exploded with Thaksin's military-focused control destroying a relatively calm low-level insurgency.

Not only did it provoke the insurgents to recruit & expand (military camp attack etc) but it totally pissed off the southern polulation in general. Prior to 2001, the NAP, led by Chavalit had a group of MP's elected in the south - notably Wan Mohamed Nur Matha & his faction. Thaksin, in trying to make further inroads into Democrat territory, totally destroyed the small group that would have been his supporters. Note that Thaksin was, for a time, in the NAP under Chavalit who remains a Thaksin supporter.

Tak Bai & Krue Be were extensions of Thaksin's very vocal strong-arm tactics, from which followed the 'war on drugs' disaster.

[DiNiro]

This, the war on drugs and kru se should all be on the list.

Do tell us, preferably with examples, what the National crackdown on drugs undertaken by the Thaksin administration has to do with the insurgency in the South?

Death at the hands of government forces.

I did notice the Democrats forgot to investigate the 2,500 drug war deaths or the Tak Bai incident.

Wonder why?

Was the Army behind this?

[Thai at Heart]

This, the war on drugs and kru se should all be on the list.

Do tell us, preferably with examples, what the National crackdown on drugs undertaken by the Thaksin administration has to do with the insurgency in the South?

Death at the hands of government forces.

I did notice the Democrats forgot to investigate the 2,500 drug war deaths or the Tak Bai incident.

Wonder why?

Was the Army behind this?

No one investigates the army for anything.

The drugs war had tacit approval from a lot of senior people.

[smutcakes]

This, the war on drugs and kru se should all be on the list.

Do tell us, preferably with examples, what the National crackdown on drugs undertaken by the Thaksin administration has to do with the insurgency in the South?

Death at the hands of government forces.

I did notice the Democrats forgot to investigate the 2,500 drug war deaths or the Tak Bai incident.

Wonder why?

Was the Army behind this?

If you have been following the thread you should know that anything that happens when the PTP or their aliases are in power, if bad should be blamed solely on TS. If something happens when the Democrats are in power, it should still be blamed on TS. Never the Dems, the army, the police or anyone else just TS. It should be noted that the army, police or anybody did anything bad in Thailand prior to TS.

[DiNiro]

At the end of the day, someone ordered these people to be piled onto each other in trucks.

Animals don't get herded like that. How far up the chain it goes who knows, but someone ordered it.

Same gang of thugs that towed Rhoyingas out to sea and set them adrift to die I suppose?

[DiNiro]

Could it be the Army/Yellows were behind these things and pinned the blame on Thaksin in their campaign to smear him?

[dcutman]

I shiver when I read some of the posts on this thread. I cannot believe that there are so many 'educated, rational' people, that could apologise for Thaksin in the case of Tak Bai, yet claim that Abhisit is responsible personally for army shootings in 2010. Yes they were two very different situations that demanded a national security response of some type. One a fairly peaceful demonstration of 1500 people, the other the overtaking of a city center by 10 000 whose leaders were issuing death threats to members of the army, encouraging the invading of hospitals and encouraging the burning down of the city. One could have been managed with a dispersal strategy, the other, despite weeks of negotiations resulting in all the demands of the protestors being met required a crackdown that any other western country would have implemented long before (but of course they would have used a willing and compliant police force, something that suddenly went missing in Bangkok), in order to serve the interests of public safety and national economy.

It doesn't take someone with a brain the size of a rocket scientist to work out that the reason nobody in the army or police was ever found guilty of Tak Bai was that Thaksin's family and close friends were at the most senior positions in both.

The difference was that Abhisit was directly involved in the suppression and consequent deaths in 2010.Thaksin had no knowledge of Tak Bai until after the event.Rather a significant difference I would have thought.

As to why no security official was charged for Tak Bai your suggestion is absurd.The reasons are quite complex and primarily relate to the longstanding non accountability for cimes by the armed forces.In any event your Enid Blyton theory doesn't tackle the issue of why nothing was done when Abhisit was in power.

Oh Jayboy! You still sputter this nonsense that Thaksin was not directly involved, in not only the Tak Bai massacre but all the other incidents and extrajudicial murders he ordered in the south (and all over Thailand) during his rein of terror. How many other links to this fact do you need?

Now your ramblings and accusations about AV being on the trigger of unfortunate deaths of innocent protesters being used as human shields in the protests of 2010. Off topic it would be (that is your norm) but you cannot, or never have, provided any proof of your allegations. I know, you feel you have the responsibility to defend the Puppet PM Yingluck, her brother, and the numerous criminals Thaksin she has appointed to her cabinet. But you should not make yourself look ridiculous doing it.

[smutcakes]

Could it be the Army/Yellows were behind these things and pinned the blame on Thaksin in their campaign to smear him?

I repeat the yellows/army/dems cannot, do not and never have done anything wrong in the eyes of the YUB.

You just have to look at a trhead on here about Chuwit exposing something which could potentially be linked to corruption in the Democrat party. Instead of taciturn approval that yes perhaps the Dems could also be involved in corruption, about 70% of the posts are choosing to blame Chuwit for being in the RUB instead!

[dcutman]

Could it be the Army/Yellows were behind these things and pinned the blame on Thaksin in their campaign to smear him?

I repeat the yellows/army/dems cannot, do not and never have done anything wrong in the eyes of the YUB.

You just have to look at a trhead on here about Chuwit exposing something which could potentially be linked to corruption in the Democrat party. Instead of taciturn approval that yes perhaps the Dems could also be involved in corruption, about 70% of the posts are choosing to blame Chuwit for being in the RUB instead!

It doesnt appear that you read the thread very closely or understand the OP, or the concept of staying on topic of the OP. How very typical.

[Buchholz]

I did notice the Democrats forgot to investigate the 2,500 drug war deaths or the Tak Bai incident.

Wonder why?

Was the Army behind this?

If you have been following the thread you should know that anything that happens when the PTP or their aliases are in power, if bad should be blamed solely on TS. If something happens when the Democrats are in power, it should still be blamed on TS. Never the Dems, the army, the police or anyone else just TS. It should be noted that the army, police or anybody did anything bad in Thailand prior to TS.

Comical exaggeration not supported by the factual reality of posts on this thread.

Incidentally, DiNiro's post is answered in Posts # 59 and # 61.

.

[Buchholz]

At the end of the day, someone ordered these people to be piled onto each other in trucks.

Animals don't get herded like that. How far up the chain it goes who knows, but someone ordered it.

Same gang of thugs that towed Rhoyingas out to sea and set them adrift to die I suppose?

Once again, police or military. Take your pick. Both have done so.

.

[Buchholz]

Could it be the Army/Yellows were behind these things and pinned the blame on Thaksin in their campaign to smear him?

Yellow shirts and red shirts were not around then, if by "these things" you are referring to Tak Bai or the Drug War killings. For those things, it was politicians, police, and the army.

.

Edited February 19, 2013 by Buchholz

[khunken]

Could it be the Army/Yellows were behind these things and pinned the blame on Thaksin in their campaign to smear him?

I repeat the yellows/army/dems cannot, do not and never have done anything wrong in the eyes of the YUB.

You just have to look at a trhead on here about Chuwit exposing something which could potentially be linked to corruption in the Democrat party. Instead of taciturn approval that yes perhaps the Dems could also be involved in corruption, about 70% of the posts are choosing to blame Chuwit for being in the RUB instead!

It doesnt appear that you read the thread very closely or understand the OP, or the concept of staying on topic of the OP. How very typical.

Yes - rather looks like a few late-comers not bothering to read the previous posts & the Op before making silly comments about the yellow shirts (who weren't in existence at the time of Tak Bai). Is this the oft-mentioned second shift?