What Lies Behind Religious Homophobia?

[isanbirder]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2013/feb/26/anti-gay-rhetoric-of-religious-leaders

An interesting article by a Catholic principally about Catholics. When I'm asked how I can be gay and Catholic, I can at least say that rather a lot of us are!

It's not only Catholics either. Leaders of many religious groups (not to mention politicians, who are hypocritical almost by definition) have been revealed to be gay despite violent anti-gay rhetoric. Mostly in the US, I think, but that's simply because Americans are perhaps less protective of other people's privacy. Ousting hypocrites? Maybe... or maybe just a bit of getting your own back.

So, if you meet a violently homophobic person, beware! or, as this is a Gay Forum, perhaps I should say, opportunity beckons!

[onthemoon]

I'm not a Catholic, I'm not even a Christian any more. But I grew up in a Christian environment, so I had to think about how my being gay fit into it. The more I thought about it, the more I came to the conclusion that if there is an almighty God, it was He who made me gay.

And Jesus loved me.

Then I heard about people who called themselves experts in Christian faith and said that this faith teaches that being gay is bad. This confused me initially, but these were high-respected people, so I had to believe them.

It meant for me that the same God who made me gay also taught that being gay is bad. I came to the conclusion that this faith is sick.

So I dropped the Christian faith and have been happy ever since.

Now, back to the topic: I am not really surprised that priesthood attract more gays than any other profession. How else can you be highly respected in a (traditional) society without being married?

And yes, there have been many examples (not only in British clergy) that violently anti-gay activists turned out to be closed gays. Any straight man not interested in guys wouldn't get all worked up about gay rights; he would just not care enough to get involved in the discussion.

[LeCharivari]

....

Now, back to the topic: I am not really surprised that priesthood attract more gays than any other profession. ...

Really?

Even pantomime dames and hairdressers?

[onthemoon]

....

Now, back to the topic: I am not really surprised that priesthood attract more gays than any other profession. ...

Really?

Even pantomime dames and hairdressers?

OK, I shouldn't have said "any other profession", but "many other professions". Anyway, you know what I mean.

[Jingthing]

These old major religions originated at a time before the rise of science, and before the the domination of the human species on earth to the point where we are strongly threatening the future existence of earth as a place our species can live. They were focused on fertility and the rise of the human species. We've risen beyond expectations. There might have been a rational basis for anti-gay taboos back then. Not now.

Also these ancient times were simple, peasant, agricultural based societies. Lots of children needed for basic survival.

Edited February 27, 2013 by Jingthing

[Scott]

Be fruitful and multiply and fill the earth and subdue it and have
dominion over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the heavens and
over every living thing that moves on the earth.” Genesis 1:28

I think we can hang a "Mission Accomplished" banner over that one.

[isanbirder]

These old major religions originated at a time before the rise of science, and before the the domination of the human species on earth to the point where we are strongly threatening the future existence of earth as a place our species can live. They were focused on fertility and the rise of the human species. We've risen beyond expectations. There might have been a rational basis for anti-gay taboos back then. Not now.

Also these ancient times were simple, peasant, agricultural based societies. Lots of children needed for basic survival.

Yes, I agree. Remember also the need for more children because of high infant mortality, and the need for more male children in particular to fight wars.

Some civilisations,notably the ancient Greeks, managed to combine the two.... homosexual liaisons and marriage.

[TommoPhysicist]

I always wondered how one could be a paedophile and a Catholic.

Doesn't seem to be a problem .......

in comparison I would expect gay + Catholic would be a doddle.

Thinking about it .....

if not able to have kids was the objection, that would put post-menopausal women off the menu too.

Edited February 28, 2013 by TommoPhysicist

[isanbirder]

I always wondered how one could be a paedophile and a Catholic.

Doesn't seem to be a problem .......

in comparison I would expect gay + Catholic would be a doddle.

Thinking about it .....

if not able to have kids was the objection, that would put post-menopausal women off the menu too.

You'll have to find a paedophile to answer that one!

Yes, gay Catholics don't find it too much of a problem.

I don't think it was so much not being able to have kids as not having the right kind of sex to produce kids. Post-menopausal women would be the right kind of sex with the wrong kind of woman (if, that is, these people really understood what the menopause was).

[TommoPhysicist]

If God can arrange the miracle of a female virgin having a baby.

Presumably God could also arrange the miracle of a man giving birth.

Therefore ............

[cooked]

Maybe they felt they were insulted by the gay community when they naively posed a question on the gay forum here. Like I was.

[endure]

In what way did you feel you were insulted?

[transam]

If God can arrange the miracle of a female virgin having a baby.

Presumably God could also arrange the miracle of a man giving birth.

Therefore ............

[cooked]

In what way did you feel you were insulted?

Silly of me I know. I suggested that if gays could drop the word 'marriage' and just go for equal rights, they might get along better. I was told to go away, this is the first time I've been back. Women had to fight for 'equal rights' for years even though they could get married. I was told that I should not forget on what forum I was writing, wasn't really insulted I suppose but felt shut out of the conversation.

It's ok, but I did feel a bit anti gay for a bit.

[tombkk]

If God can arrange the miracle of a female virgin having a baby.

Presumably God could also arrange the miracle of a man giving birth.

Therefore ............

My boyfy and I have been trying for years... no luck yet.

[tombkk]

In what way did you feel you were insulted?

Silly of me I know. I suggested that if gays could drop the word 'marriage' and just go for equal rights, they might get along better. I was told to go away, this is the first time I've been back. Women had to fight for 'equal rights' for years even though they could get married. I was told that I should not forget on what forum I was writing, wasn't really insulted I suppose but felt shut out of the conversation.

It's ok, but I did feel a bit anti gay for a bit.

I don't remember that incident, and (apparently) neither does endure. You will have noticed that there has been a change of mods on this forum. We hope that this is for the better.

But of course, this is the gay forum, for gay people. Straight people are welcome to participate, as long as they understand that this is the gay forum.

[TommoPhysicist]

If God can arrange the miracle of a female virgin having a baby.

Presumably God could also arrange the miracle of a man giving birth.

Therefore ............

My boyfy and I have been trying for years... no luck yet.

You just need to have faith!

[TommoPhysicist]

But of course, this is the gay forum, for gay people. Straight people are welcome to participate, as long as they understand that this is the gay forum.

What about those of us still firmly in the closet?

[Jingthing]

This to be documentary is concerned with this issue, the religious basis of intolerance of gay people:

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/openeyepictures/alfredos-fire

[transam]

If God can arrange the miracle of a female virgin having a baby.

Presumably God could also arrange the miracle of a man giving birth.

Therefore ............

My boyfy and I have been trying for years... no luck yet.

You just need to have faith!

Noooooooo, a miracle. Still, it is written in one of those books that was written by a bloke, that the waters opened up for folk to cross a river, so anything possible.

[Jingthing]

But of course, this is the gay forum, for gay people. Straight people are welcome to participate, as long as they understand that this is the gay forum.

What about those of us still firmly in the closet?

Too late for you I reckon.

Welcome to the club. The free toaster offer is history so don't be expecting a free toaster. Just saying.

Edited March 1, 2013 by Jingthing

[endure]

But of course, this is the gay forum, for gay people. Straight people are welcome to participate, as long as they understand that this is the gay forum.

What about those of us still firmly in the closet?

I'm afraid that you're not very convincing...

[transam]

But of course, this is the gay forum, for gay people. Straight people are welcome to participate, as long as they understand that this is the gay forum.

What about those of us still firmly in the closet?

I'm afraid that you're not very convincing...

Tommo, is it really you . ....................

[Ace of Pop]

But of course, this is the gay forum, for gay people. Straight people are welcome to participate, as long as they understand that this is the gay forum.

What about those of us still firmly in the closet?

I'm afraid that you're not very convincing...

Tommo, is it really you . ....................

Nah, its Vic Bekham in Drag

[onthemoon]

This to be documentary is concerned with this issue, the religious basis of intolerance of gay people:

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/openeyepictures/alfredos-fire

I feel sorry for the guy who burned himself several decades ago. I understand at the time, the Catholic Church still had a lot of influence in Italy, but still, he should have campaigned for people to leave that institution.

For the reason I mentioned earlier, a church that preaches that their god, who makes you gay, throws you before the wolves is not worth being a member of.

Isanbirder, I admire you for staying Catholic while being gay. I know you have thought about it, and that's your decision which I respect. No offence meant.

[tombkk]

If God can arrange the miracle of a female virgin having a baby.

Presumably God could also arrange the miracle of a man giving birth.

Therefore ............

My boyfy and I have been trying for years... no luck yet.

You just need to have faith!

We do! We have been to Lourdes - or was it the Louvre?

[tombkk]

But of course, this is the gay forum, for gay people. Straight people are welcome to participate, as long as they understand that this is the gay forum.

What about those of us still firmly in the closet?

I first thought this was a trick question, but I see it has been answered already.

[uptheos]

But of course, this is the gay forum, for gay people. Straight people are welcome to participate, as long as they understand that this is the gay forum.

What about those of us still firmly in the closet?

I'm afraid that you're not very convincing...

Julian Clary I presume?

[tombkk]

But of course, this is the gay forum, for gay people. Straight people are welcome to participate, as long as they understand that this is the gay forum.

What about those of us still firmly in the closet?

I'm afraid that you're not very convincing...

Julian Clary I presume?

Thanks for the tip, I think you are right. I found this rather good video/song:

[dantilley]

This thread reminds me of this: