Anti-government Rally Thread 13-25 March

[h90]

I think the blind eye on the past of the PAD leaders is because they are the only hope against Toxin.

like my wife explained: now the worst enemys are walking hand in hand just to kick out Toxin, later after he is aways they can fight with each other again. She told me that is often the case in Thailand....

Yes... indeed... look at one's past actions when determining the potential for violence:

For me it is amazing how they can prevent any violence till now. Considering the high amount of crazy southeners (like my wife) shouting "we are ready to die" and comming with weired things like what is my life in compare to Thailand blablabla. Reminds me to the NSDAP and Hitler.......

I am more than aware of the war on drugs. I think i have made more than a few highly critical posts about that mass slaughter.

That does though not exponerate Chamlong and Sondhi. Both have been staunch Thaksin supporters during the killings of the still ongoing war on drugs. Chamlong in addition has everything else than a clean personal record when it comes down to violence.

I would though prefer an answer on my points regarding Sondhi's and Chamlong's readyness for violence other than telling us that Thaksin ordered the killings on the war on drugs. We know that already, we established the fact, and are not in disagreement.

What i have problems though to accept is, that you and many others who openly side with the PAD allow your dislike of Thaksin to blind you to the more uncomfortable realities of the PAD leaders.

[sriracha john]

QUOTE(ColPyat @ 2006-03-27 10:33:47)

I am more than aware of the war on drugs. I think i have made more than a few highly critical posts about that mass slaughter.

That does though not exponerate Chamlong and Sondhi. Both have been staunch Thaksin supporters during the killings of the still ongoing war on drugs. Chamlong in addition has everything else than a clean personal record when it comes down to violence.

I would though prefer an answer on my points regarding Sondhi's and Chamlong's readyness for violence other than telling us that Thaksin ordered the killings on the war on drugs. We know that already, we established the fact, and are not in disagreement.

What i have problems though to accept is, that you and many others who openly side with the PAD allow your dislike of Thaksin to blind you to the more uncomfortable realities of the PAD leaders.

I'm not that naive. They are certainly no angels... very few Thai bigwigs in and out of politics are... but neither of them have the history of being in direct charge of operations or even worse instigating such massacres as the Drug Wars and Tak Bae in the first place. The only established acts of rally violence thus far are trivial compared to those directly attributable to Thaksin's. Given the length of time these rallies have been held and the numbers involved, things have been exceptionally peaceful from both sides. I earnestly hope that continues.

As PAD represents many different groups with many different issues, I don't support all of them. The same is true of the political party of my chosing. The PAD's initial and primary focus on getting the PM to leave office is the paramount issue I do agree with wholeheartedly. Not speaking for others, but I'm not blind to the past of some of PAD leaders... but if they assist in achieving the ultimate goal of removing Thaksin, then it's an undesired, but acceptable, coalition. Such is the nature of politics.

Edited March 27, 2006 by sriracha john

[lukamar]

I think the blind eye on the past of the PAD leaders is because they are the only hope against Toxin.

There is a Thai proverb for what you speak.....

หนีเสือปะจระเข้ - Escape the tiger to be eaten by the crocodile.

You escape a thief, only to meet a liar.

[ColPyat]

I think the blind eye on the past of the PAD leaders is because they are the only hope against Toxin.

like my wife explained: now the worst enemys are walking hand in hand just to kick out Toxin, later after he is aways they can fight with each other again. She told me that is often the case in Thailand....

Yes, and those consistent powerstrugles between different cliques are to a large part the reason why Thailand is so corrupt and backward, while Malaysia for example is by now far ahead of Thailand in almost every aspect.

This is why have serious difficulties to believe that the PAD and their backers will inject change to the better in Thailand. They use terms like "transparency", "freedom" and "democracy", attract the mainly urban based masses with near fascist xenophobia, but the only thing what happens is a further split in the population and the only change is that another clique and whoever allies themselves with them gets a chance to enrich themselves.

How many editions have we seen in the past of that sort of rubbish? Has there been any substantial improvements been made on the lot of the huge masses of rural poor? <deleted> all.

The previous governments have let local godfathers run the coutryside, Thaksin has either enlisted them, or, if he couldn't, has cleverly outsmarted them, and given the rural people crumbs of the cake, and has so bound them to him.

The PAD speaks only to the urban educated middle classes, has not proposed even one realistic plan to improve the lot of the poor. And the usual suspects, like Sanoh, sensing a change in power, and out of need to regain power, have allied themselves with the PAD.

The Democrats only seem to want to return to the old status quo of having nearly inoperational coalition governments.

This whole mess has <deleted> all to do with improving Thailand. Thaksin uses the rural poor for his personal agenda, the main powers in the PAD use the hopes of the mainly urban based middle classes for their personal agendas.

Same <deleted> difference.

Well, one difference though - the first time in Thailand's recent political history the rural poor are outspoken with their political opinions and allegiances. And that might very possibly open a nasty can of worms that cannot be contained anymore given the decades of mismanagement of the country.

[ColPyat]

The PAD's initial and primary focus on getting the PM to leave office is the paramount issue I do agree with wholeheartedly. Not speaking for others, but I'm not blind to the past of some of PAD leaders... but if they assist in achieving the ultimate goal of removing Thaksin, then it's an undesired, but acceptable, coalition. Such is the nature of politics.

Have you ever wasted a thought on what might happen in the future if Thaksin might be forced out against the (misgiuded or not does not matter) will of the vast majority of the Thai population?

I know from conversations with several PAD leaders that they haven't.

[Jai Dee]

Pol. Gen. Chitchai admits that it is hard to provide security, if PAD moves its rally to gather at Siam Paragon

The Deputy Prime Minister and Justice Minister, Pol. Gen. Chitchai Wannasathit (ชิดชัย วรรณสถิตย์), has admitted that it would be quite difficult to effectively provide security measures, if the People’s Alliance for Democracy (PAD) shifts to hold its rally in front of Siam Paragon.

Speaking after presiding over a meeting with security officers, Pol. Gen. Chitchai informed that his intelligence team has analyzed over the possible chaos that might take place during the PAD’s rally on March 29th in front of Siam Paragon shopping complex. He said that the place is too narrow to contain every PAD members, and it could easily cause disorder situations. However, he believes that the key members of the PAD will revise this matter again because this action might root inconvenience to people and commuters around the place.

He added that the PAD should stop its rally as they have reached its goals on handing a petition to Privy Council President and Statesman Prem Tinsulanonda (เปรม ติณสูลานนท์) on February 4th. And on March 25th, they had made an announcement to request a designation of an interim Prime Minister.

Source: Thai National News Bureau Public Relations Department - 27 March 2006

[h90]

I think the blind eye on the past of the PAD leaders is because they are the only hope against Toxin.

like my wife explained: now the worst enemys are walking hand in hand just to kick out Toxin, later after he is aways they can fight with each other again. She told me that is often the case in Thailand....

Yes, and those consistent powerstrugles between different cliques are to a large part the reason why Thailand is so corrupt and backward, while Malaysia for example is by now far ahead of Thailand in almost every aspect.

This is why have serious difficulties to believe that the PAD and their backers will inject change to the better in Thailand. They use terms like "transparency", "freedom" and "democracy", attract the mainly urban based masses with near fascist xenophobia, but the only thing what happens is a further split in the population and the only change is that another clique and whoever allies themselves with them gets a chance to enrich themselves.

How many editions have we seen in the past of that sort of rubbish? Has there been any substantial improvements been made on the lot of the huge masses of rural poor? <deleted> all.

The previous governments have let local godfathers run the coutryside, Thaksin has either enlisted them, or, if he couldn't, has cleverly outsmarted them, and given the rural people crumbs of the cake, and has so bound them to him.

The PAD speaks only to the urban educated middle classes, has not proposed even one realistic plan to improve the lot of the poor. And the usual suspects, like Sanoh, sensing a change in power, and out of need to regain power, have allied themselves with the PAD.

The Democrats only seem to want to return to the old status quo of having nearly inoperational coalition governments.

This whole mess has <deleted> all to do with improving Thailand. Thaksin uses the rural poor for his personal agenda, the main powers in the PAD use the hopes of the mainly urban based middle classes for their personal agendas.

Same <deleted> difference.

Well, one difference though - the first time in Thailand's recent political history the rural poor are outspoken with their political opinions and allegiances. And that might very possibly open a nasty can of worms that cannot be contained anymore given the decades of mismanagement of the country.

Yes I agree, but there is no hope that Thaksin is now doing anything more than taking money, while with a new gouverment there is at least hope that it is doing better.

Specially if there is a gouverment appointed by HM the king.

New gouverment, new hope, Thaksin no hope.....

lukamar: "escape the tiger to be eaten by the crocodile.

You escape a thief, only to meet a liar."

Toxin is a thief and a liar.

You escape the tiger and meet the unkown, maybe Thailand has some luck....

[sriracha john]

The PAD's initial and primary focus on getting the PM to leave office is the paramount issue I do agree with wholeheartedly. Not speaking for others, but I'm not blind to the past of some of PAD leaders... but if they assist in achieving the ultimate goal of removing Thaksin, then it's an undesired, but acceptable, coalition. Such is the nature of politics.

Have you ever wasted a thought on what might happen in the future if Thaksin might be forced out against the (misgiuded or not does not matter) will of the vast majority of the Thai population?

I know from conversations with several PAD leaders that they haven't.

Which of the PAD leaders did you converse with and what did they say in response to your queries about Thailand's future, post-Thaksin?

[Thaible]

I believe your pre-edited post was much better... by simply posting the CNN/AP article in it's entirety

I read the forum rules after posting the article and it said I wasn't allowed to post copyright material. I wasn't sure if this applied to newspaper articles where I included the copyright citation, but I left it out just in case. It's a great article though.

Edited March 27, 2006 by Thaible

[lukamar]

lukamar: "escape the tiger to be eaten by the crocodile.

You escape a thief, only to meet a liar."

The meaning in English is, "Out of the frying pan into the fire." or "One choice is as bad as the other."

This one is more PAD for you..

ไม้อ่อนดัดง่ายไม้แก่ดัดยาก - Mai oon dud nang mai gae dud yag

It's easier to shape young wood than old wood. (You can't teach an old dog new tricks)

[sriracha john]

I think the blind eye on the past of the PAD leaders is because they are the only hope against Toxin.

like my wife explained: now the worst enemys are walking hand in hand just to kick out Toxin, later after he is aways they can fight with each other again. She told me that is often the case in Thailand....

Yes, and those consistent powerstrugles between different cliques are to a large part the reason why Thailand is so corrupt and backward, while Malaysia for example is by now far ahead of Thailand in almost every aspect.

This is why have serious difficulties to believe that the PAD and their backers will inject change to the better in Thailand. They use terms like "transparency", "freedom" and "democracy", attract the mainly urban based masses with near fascist xenophobia, but the only thing what happens is a further split in the population and the only change is that another clique and whoever allies themselves with them gets a chance to enrich themselves.

How many editions have we seen in the past of that sort of rubbish? Has there been any substantial improvements been made on the lot of the huge masses of rural poor? <deleted> all.

The previous governments have let local godfathers run the coutryside, Thaksin has either enlisted them, or, if he couldn't, has cleverly outsmarted them, and given the rural people crumbs of the cake, and has so bound them to him.

The PAD speaks only to the urban educated middle classes, has not proposed even one realistic plan to improve the lot of the poor. And the usual suspects, like Sanoh, sensing a change in power, and out of need to regain power, have allied themselves with the PAD.

The Democrats only seem to want to return to the old status quo of having nearly inoperational coalition governments.

This whole mess has <deleted> all to do with improving Thailand. Thaksin uses the rural poor for his personal agenda, the main powers in the PAD use the hopes of the mainly urban based middle classes for their personal agendas.

Same <deleted> difference.

Well, one difference though - the first time in Thailand's recent political history the rural poor are outspoken with their political opinions and allegiances. And that might very possibly open a nasty can of worms that cannot be contained anymore given the decades of mismanagement of the country.

Yes I agree, but there is no hope that Thaksin is now doing anything more than taking money, while with a new gouverment there is at least hope that it is doing better.

Specially if there is a gouverment appointed by HM the king.

New gouverment, new hope, Thaksin no hope.....

lukamar: "escape the tiger to be eaten by the crocodile.

You escape a thief, only to meet a liar."

Toxin is a thief and a liar.

You escape the tiger and meet the unkown, maybe Thailand has some luck....

As well as providing hope that the events will serve as an example and deter future office holders from seeking the same self-enrichment.

Maybe, just maybe, it will show that Thais are no longer willing to accept the status quo, nevermind the "unprecedented" levels of Thaksin's, of corruption.

If they are successful in seeking his outster it could provide the impetus of change necessary to give Thais hope that they don't have to accept dictatorial despots.

That change can translate into if the next Premier is no better, then Thais can remove him/her, too.

Thaksin reaching out to the poor to appeal to their needs was a good first step. Unfortunately, he's misused and abused that since then. If the poor can be emboldened to see that someone might actually pay attention to their needs, hopefully they can be further emboldened to insist that that attention is adhered to and followed through on and that they can have a voice in insisting upon it.

Overly optimistic? likely..... but <deleted>...

Without hope... the already hard life of Thais will only get worse.

Without change... there is little hope.

[Plus]

There's no evidence that Chamlong supported drug war in any way. He was Thaksin's special advisor on human resources but it was an unsalaried position.

Whatever gripes people might have against PAD, they should be based on facts.

They use terms like "transparency", "freedom" and "democracy", attract the mainly urban based masses with near fascist xenophobia,

They attract the widest possible spectrum of Thai society, many without even a touch of xenophobia in them.

Assembly of the Poor, the grandfather of Thai farmers protesters, threw it's weigh behind PAD, so you can't claim that they don't represent farmers at all.

The PAD ... has not proposed even one realistic plan to improve the lot of the poor.

It's because they are not a political organisation and have no intention of joining the government. The whole purpose of this movement was removal of Thaksin for corruption and conflicts of interest.

Don't ask too much from them - they have only one goal in mind. Once Thaksin is out life will go on. MPs will elect a new PM, there will be new ministers, some policies will be revised, others cancelled, new promoted. There will be Constitutional reforms, new elections, and so on. And all this will be perfectly possible without Thaksin.

[ColPyat]

Specially if there is a gouverment appointed by HM the king.

New gouverment, new hope, Thaksin no hope.....

And whatever small sources i have that are somewhat closed to what's going on in palace circles, they have expressed anger that both sides, but especially the PAD, is trying to draw the palace into taking sides.

The palace is supposed to be above politics. And so far i can only see that the Privy Council is doing nothing else than that - staying above the present political mess, regardless of whatever hidden meanings both sides interpret into everything that comes out of the palace.

Every petition of the PAD so far has been completely ignored, and i believe that this should be message enough to stop waffling on about a government appointed by HM the King at the present moment.

Plus said:

There's no evidence that Chamlong supported drug war in any way. He was Thaksin's special advisor on human resources but it was an unsalaried position.

He has not found any reason that several thousand summarily executed Thais is reason enough to distance himself from Thaksin as he did when it came to the issue of "selling the country".

This is generally understood as support.

They attract the widest possible spectrum of Thai society, many without even a touch of xenophobia in them.

Funny though then that the vast majority of their speaches contain extreme nationalism and utterly xenophobic statements.

sriracha john said:

If they are successful in seeking his outster it could provide the impetus of change necessary to give Thais hope that they don't have to accept dictatorial despots.

That change can translate into if the next Premier is no better, then Thais can remove him/her, too.

Thaksin reaching out to the poor to appeal to their needs was a good first step. Unfortunately, he's misused and abused that since then. If the poor can be emboldened to see that someone might actually pay attention to their needs, hopefully they can be further emboldened to insist that that attention is adhered to and followed through on and that they can have a voice in insisting upon it.

Until now the anti Thaksin protestors are a minority of the population. The majority still does support Thaksin. Every opinion poll so far has confirmed that fact.

Change the allegiance of the Thaksin supporters, and you have a cause for the immediate ouster of Thaksin. Right now we have a minority not accepting the will of the majority. Justified their complaints against Thaksin may be, however, they have to convince the majority if they do not want to risk even more serious frictions in the society than Thailand already has.

The poor don't see anything as long as the parliamentary opposition do not campaign in the North and Isaarn. And given the past history the rural poor did not receive anything at all, even less than now. Why should they believe anything just because some city elites say so?

Lets wait and see how many voters in the upcoming elections use the option of not choosing any candidate, and then we will see far more clear the issue how many people support Thaksin, and how many do not.

Which of the PAD leaders did you converse with and what did they say in response to your queries about Thailand's future, post-Thaksin?

Honestly, i did not remember their names, especially as the conversations mostly were so piss poor and lacking of any intellectual sophistication. When i asked about the future one guy was getting very squirmish, said that he has headaches enough already, that he hopes for the best, and that he has some urgent business he has to attend to. And he ran off.

Another guy got very uncomfortale, and said that he has no answer for me on that. At least he was honest.

I know better to ask some other questions, like, why the welcome people like Sanoh...

It is my experience that sometimes it is far more interesting what people don't say, than what they say, especially here in Thailand.

Edited March 27, 2006 by ColPyat

[Plus]

Funny though then that the vast majority of their speaches contain extreme nationalism and utterly xenophobic statements.

Like when three retired diplomats took the stage?

Chamlong didn't make any public statements on the drug war - why do you call it "support"? What if the drug war was the major reason for him not to trust Thaksin, question his ethics, and, ultimately, join PAD?

Until now the anti Thaksin protestors are a minority of the population. The majority still does support Thaksin. Every opinion poll so far has confirmed that fact.

And yet again, let me remind you that PAD is protesting against Thaksin's corruption, not his popularity. You don't vote on SML scheme or 30 baht healthcare to prove that one is not corrupt. It's absurd.

If Thaksin wants elections to serve as a referendum on his legitimacy he should be campaigning to clear his name - tell us all about Ample Rich and Win Mark, for example. That will also lead to absurdity because there's can't be "Thaksin is not corrupt" option on ballots.

[ColPyat]

Funny though then that the vast majority of their speaches contain extreme nationalism and utterly xenophobic statements.

Like when three retired diplomats took the stage?

Chamlong didn't make any public statements on the drug war - why do you call it "support"? What if the drug war was the major reason for him not to trust Thaksin, question his ethics, and, ultimately, join PAD?

Until now the anti Thaksin protestors are a minority of the population. The majority still does support Thaksin. Every opinion poll so far has confirmed that fact.

And yet again, let me remind you that PAD is protesting against Thaksin's corruption, not his popularity. You don't vote on SML scheme or 30 baht healthcare to prove that one is not corrupt. It's absurd.

If Thaksin wants elections to serve as a referendum on his legitimacy he should be campaigning to clear his name - tell us all about Ample Rich and Win Mark, for example. That will also lead to absurdity because there's can't be "Thaksin is not corrupt" option on ballots.

Three retired diplomats don't make a majority of speaches.

"What if the drug war was for Chamlong the major reason..." is pure speculation, and he does not exactly make the impression to be so senile to take three years to make up his mind about following up on any inspiration.

Thaksin is campaigning to get as many votes as possible. In the eyes of his supporters he has cleared his name. This is politics in the age of spindoctor populism, not just in Thailand.

Hi legitimacy comes from the votes he gets - this is democracy. If the opposition has not been able to convince voters of their reality - it has obviously not done its job properly.

Both the PAD and the parliamentary had ample time to prove their points to the rural voters in Isaarn and the North, which are the electoral powerbase of TRT. So far they have wasted their recources in staging demonstrations in the the city centres and campagning in the South.

[seonai]

Hi. Many years ago Chamlong and loads of people were protesting outside Government House and I had heardso much about him that I went to sit by his bed while he was on hunger strike. I couldn't talk to him as I felt shy. I sort of revered all his Santi Asoke stuff and simple life policies. I was deeply shocked much later when he joined Thaksin, felt really let down

Now I am confused about him again

[Jai Dee]

Lt. Gen. Achirawit is worried about the traffic congestion at Siam Paragon

The Spokesperson of the Royal Thai Police, Lieutenant-General Achirawit Supanpesat (อชิรวิทย์ สุพรรณเภสัช), is concerned over the traffic congestion and has requested the People's Alliance for Democracy (PAD) to change the gathering venue.

Lieutenant-General Achirawit said in response to the PAD's decision to relocate their demonstration venue to Siam Paragon. He said even though people can carry the rallies according to the democratic regime, but they should remain under the laws and regulations. He commented that the demonstrators should also think of the general public as well.

The Spokesperson of the Royal Thai Police has requested the demonstration to hold the gathering at other public venue such as public parks so as to prevent the traffic blockage. He indicated that the traffic around Siam Square, from Pathumwan (ปทุมวัน) junction to Ratchaprasong (ราชประสงค์) junction, is severely jammed on a usual basis, and the rally could cause more troubles to the commuters.

However, he disclosed that the authorities have laid out the plans to look after the matter, if the PAD still insists to hold the demonstration at Siam Paragon.

Source: Thai National News Bureau Public Relations Department - 27 March 2006

[ColPyat]

Hi. Many years ago Chamlong and loads of people were protesting outside Government House and I had heardso much about him that I went to sit by his bed while he was on hunger strike. I couldn't talk to him as I felt shy. I sort of revered all his Santi Asoke stuff and simple life policies. I was deeply shocked much later when he joined Thaksin, felt really let down

Now I am confused about him again

From what i can see Chamlong has two faces: the smiling semi ascetic public image, and the face i have seen as well at Saphan Pan Fa: the determined angry fanatic who without thinking risks the lives of many.

Yes, someone who joins a man like Thaksin, who does not immediately leave him when on his orders several thousand Thais were slaughtered does not deserve any reverence and is a traitor to the humanistic religious ideals he has committed himself to.

[seonai]

Yes ColPyat, unfortunately true

[Plus]

Chamolong didn't join Thaksin, Thaksin joined Chamlong's Phalang Dharma party. It was Chamlong who launched Thaksin's poiltical career, and I understand that it might took him quite some time to renounce his "disciple". Chamlong's support for the drug war is also pure speculation, drop it.

This is politics in the age of spindoctor populism, not just in Thailand. Hi legitimacy comes from the votes he gets - this is democracy.

Spindoctor populism is not democracy and is rightly rejected by anti-Thaksin's protesters.

Both the PAD and the parliamentary had ample time to prove their points to the rural voters in Isaarn and the North, which are the electoral powerbase of TRT. So far they have wasted their recources in staging demonstrations in the the city centres and campagning in the South.

PAD doesn't have resources for nationwide campaigning on the scale of TRT, and they don't get media coverage to present their views on TV, they couldn't even get a televised debate with Thaksin, something Sondhi was aksing since last year. I don't know the details of Democrats campaign, I think they should concentrate on derailing TRT's victory in the South and make sure Thaksin doesn't get 20% of votes there.

[sriracha john]

sriracha john said:

Which of the PAD leaders did you converse with and what did they say in response to your queries about Thailand's future, post-Thaksin?

Honestly, i did not remember their names, especially as the conversations mostly were so piss poor and lacking of any intellectual sophistication. When i asked about the future one guy was getting very squirmish, said that he has headaches enough already, that he hopes for the best, and that he has some urgent business he has to attend to. And he ran off.

Another guy got very uncomfortale, and said that he has no answer for me on that. At least he was honest.

I know better to ask some other questions, like, why the welcome people like Sanoh...

It is my experience that sometimes it is far more interesting what people don't say, than what they say, especially here in Thailand.

however, I usually do know who it is that I am speaking with. Are there that many PAD leaders?

[jdinasia]

"What constitutes a political crisis?" the newspaper asked in an editorial. "Corruption? Every government is corrupt more or less. Dictatorship? Thaksin has just called a snap election."[/i]

Did the CNN editors say anything about the Auditor-General's description of Thaksin's corruption

as "unprecedented?"

To say all governments are corrupt "more or less" trivializes the issue that Thaksin's level of corruption which makes all others pale in comparison.

It's akin to labelling an eight year-old shoplifting a candy bar the same title "robber" as the recent Bank of England thieves who stole millions of pounds.

Further trivialization is evident by saying that the moniker "dictator" hinges on his call for a snap election. It ignores the literally dozens of other issues that have earned him that title.

It was an Editorial ..... Opinion pieces are nice because they often show another point of view. No matter how silly :-) I know I should go look it up and see the whole story ... but that'll have to wait ... have stuff to do today :-)

[seonai]

Does anyone know what just happened to Thaksin? ASTV are broadcasting something alonmg the lines of a man getting too close to Thaksin and police thought he was going to attack Mr T. There was a huge commotion when I switched on with all these people screaming and shouting at ASTV cameras to get out. I switched on late !!!!!

[h90]

I also got it late: I heared rumour, and that are only rumours could be wrong info.

That Toxin ate somewhere, with cameras and people cheers him and some people did not cheers him they use more Sondis words.....

But not sure if that is true or not....

Does anyone know what just happened to Thaksin? ASTV are broadcasting something alonmg the lines of a man getting too close to Thaksin and police thought he was going to attack Mr T. There was a huge commotion when I switched on with all these people screaming and shouting at ASTV cameras to get out. I switched on late !!!!!

[ColPyat]

Chamolong didn't join Thaksin, Thaksin joined Chamlong's Phalang Dharma party. It was Chamlong who launched Thaksin's poiltical career, and I understand that it might took him quite some time to renounce his "disciple". Chamlong's support for the drug war is also pure speculation, drop it.

No, i won't drop it.

I know that Thaksin bought his way in Chamlong's Pak Phalam Dham. But that has been before the founding of the TRT. Chamlong was not a founding member of the TRT, hence he later on joined Thaksin.

Anyone with any regard to his fellow human being, especially one who commits himself to a philosophy/religion which one of its major points is the sacrednes of all sentient life cannot be anything else than be utterly disgusted by the drug war killings.

Chamlong was during those very bad days a senior TRT member, and he did not say a word against it. This makes him an accomplice who condoned the slaughter of thousands.

Neither has he distanced himself from Thaksin after the Tak Bai massacre.

Chamlong is a plain two faced fascist - there is no way around that.

sriratcha john said:

however, I usually do know who it is that I am speaking with. Are there that many PAD leaders?

I anyhow have a lousy memory for names, and especially for people i had less than inspiring conversations with.

There is a shitload of PAD leaders and wanna be leaders, and consultants, and whatever. It's a bloody circus of the most impossible alliances down there - you can see doped out old hippies hobnobbing with shady godfathers, all sort of academics and minor politicians clapping each other on the shoulder, all having strange improvised conferences, drunk on their own imagined importance. In between you got an army of journalists picking up on any rumor floating around.

Sondhi running around like a bloody celebrity, his bimbo in tow, with his thuggish bodyguards who don't even take off their black shades in the middle of the night.

Absolutely pathetic.

[kyselak]

Thai protesters target Bangkok's commercial heart

by Nareerat Wiriyapong

BANGKOK, March 27, 2006 (AFP) - Thai protesters campaigning to

oust the prime minister have changed tactics, moving demonstrations

into the busy commercial heart of Bangkok and threatening a sit-in

at the city's biggest mall.

The new tactic brought a prompt warning from police about

protesting on private property instead of public land, as business

leaders worried over the potential damage to the economy.

Until Sunday, when 10,000 people marched through Bangkok's

upmarket retail district, most of the protests had been confined to

government buildings, mostly located in an historic district far

from downtown.

On Monday, a crowd of 1,000 people followed up with a march on

the national police headquarters, which is located near some of the

city's biggest malls.

One of the protest leaders, Chamlong Srimuang, said that a

nearly two-week sit-in outside Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra's

office would move from Wednesday to the city's newest and biggest

mall, Siam Paragon.

The sparkling new shrine to consumerism, which houses everything

from designer boutiques like Gucci to a Ferrari dealership, is

located near one of Bangkok's most congested intersections and at

the busiest station on the city's SkyTrain system.

"We found this the ideal new venue, because it is convenient for

us to get to the protest. We will start to camp there from March 29

onward," said Chamlong, the leader of an ascetic Buddhist sect and

Thaksin's erstwhile political mentor.

"We will stay there until Thaksin resigns. This will be our next

attempt to bring Thaksin to the end."

A spokesman for the protesters said that they would not enter

the malls, but would camp on the street, which is one of the busiest

thoroughfares in Bangkok.

"We will stay on the street, not at the shopping mall, because

that's the asset of a private company," said Suriyasai Katasila.

"Also, we're hoping to draw middle-class and business people

living and shopping there to join the protest. That area is more of

a business community," he told AFP.

But police warned that camping on the street would violate

traffic laws, and said the protesters could be arrested if the

mall's owner complained.

"If there is any request from Siam Paragon's owner about the

protest, we can arrest them," national police spokesman Ajirawid

Subarnbhesaj told AFP.

One of the country's biggest business groups warned that the

protesters' new tactic could have a serious economic impact and

tarnish Thailand's image.

"Department stores like Emporium and Siam Paragon are tourist

centers. If the tourists feel that it's not safe, the tourism sector

will be hit, and there will be an automatic effect on business,"

said Santi Vilassakdanont, vice chairman of the Federation of Thai

Industries.

"It would create the image that Thailand is having riots," he

said. "If the protesters go there, I ask them to please stay calm

and don't go into the mall."

Deputy Prime Minister Chidchai Vanasatidya said the government

has requested the protesters not to go to Siam Paragon.

"That is a private place that others could not occupy," he told

reporters.

Two months of political turmoil has already lowered expectations

for Thailand's economic growth this year. Originally predicated at

about 5.0 percent, some forecasters say it could dip below 4.0

percent.

Thaksin has called elections for Sunday, three years early, in

hopes of ending the political standoff. But the opposition are

boycotting, raising fears that the election will prove inconclusive

and that protests could continue into April.

str/gs/lh

AFP 271052 GMT MAR 06

[boppia]

Seoni. you really go from confused to won over easily! ColPyat, what exactly did Chamlong do that causes you to hate him so much? He didn't come up with the plan to kill so many people in Thailand in the past few years. If you have to choose based on your thinking Thaksin is guilty of the killings. He is the head. Chamlong can't take the blame over Thaksin. Thaksin wants to keep on going. He'll certainly see more people killed. If you are against the killings you must be against Thaksin. If you are not against Thaksin then you must be for the killings. What is it? In your case the best vote for you would be a No Vote unless you are for more killings?

Why are you and your bimbo, Seoni, so proThaksin? Thaksin can't be better than Chamlong? You seem to have an agenda.

As for the students that were murdered in the past Chamlong didn't kill them. In fact all the protests in Thailand have been generally peaceful from the side of the protestors. It's always been the government which seems to do all the killing.

If you like dictatorship you might think of returning home to Burma, oh sorry Myanmar.

Why would you want a leader who will take information away form you as the current government does? Are you corrupt?

[jdg]

Hello to all,

First of all a big hello from a new member, reading long time but here the first post.

not a native english so sorry for any grammer mistakes.

I just watched ASTV and saw a guy speaking I think his name was santi he was comparing Thaksin with hitler

does any one here knows this men his full name and what is his possition?

thanks,

JDG

[boppia]

How did you get into this thread if you don't know? jdq where are you from if you don't know him?

[jdg]

Boppia,

its not The sonthi or who ever This guy i Think they said he was a proffesor from a Uni

my wife translated his name as santi not sonthi

JDG