Chinese Automobile Giant To Invest 9Bn Baht In Thailand

[ginjag]

Well well, here we go again...Chinese quality. To understand the word "quality" in China, you should first understand Chinese business thinking and laws which are relevant to all business except business with government offices. Comparing Japan, Korea and China might be a little bit simplified thinking without understanding details behind(apple is sometimes orange anyway). And this is valid also in automobile business for sure.

Almost 10 years experience in China and countless discussions about quality of cars with foreigners and locals, I would say that progress have happened. Am I happy about quality today(no way), service(someone must like pain if say so or pockets full of money, remember world is definately different when you have something to show), cheap(yep, suuuure, until it breaks again). So other words, you just need to get used to it, it brakes, you wait, you pay, it brakes, you wait, you wait, you pay...)

And now someone says, oh yeah, one more farang complaining perfect quality, good service and excellent availability. Hmmm, why everyone of these locals complain, complain, complain every week about quality of their local cars, some of them needed to return brand new Chery's during the same day. They don't trust local brands and therefore all foreign models are really popular here. And yes, of course they buy also local brand, sure, for many reasons, like price, personal interest etc. but it does not move away THE basic thing behind...quality thinking. Just watch local CCTV & BTV and central government guys repeating word quality...they know all the problems this nation is creating by themselves from top to down because of two words....money and NOW! They try all kind of tricks to drive local businesses towards to this goal, but how to do it the other thing...How long it took in the case of Japan/Korea? I would assume that time needed in the case of China will be 3-4 times longer and they know it and surprisingly not even hide it, if you follow discussions.

By the way, how about comparing Chinese cars and Russian Lada? Did it fly, big success? World dominance? Yep, I though so...

And please, don't even ask about quality of buildings, you don't want to know....

30,000 K big trouble bad quality---No 1 clutch cable.---- up to individuals-- Chery A 113 eco 1.3L

[ginjag]

Good news for Thailand, the current government and the Prime Minister.

It must really stick in the craw of the Yingluck haters that major ( and surprising ) foreign investment like this is happening.

The TV folks who decry this are probably the same ones who believed the minimum wage would cause all F.I. to flee and that the country would be instantly bankrupted................

Before you are getting all excited, let me remind you, that this "major investment" is worth less than 3% of what the governments rice-scam is costing per year!

BTW the comments on Chinese cars lack of quality and workmanship (probably correct) reminds me of, when the first cars started to come from Japan many years ago. Different tune now.

Remember the Datsun Cherry---baby car----engine not bad BUT what a rotbox---sorry it was about 1970s I think.

[ginjag]

Neversure. Branding Chinese stuff as SH#T suppose you think I am telling lies about the Chery A113 being better equipped that the top of the range Jazz. @ 400,000 rather than 750,000, I love driving my Xxxxty smart lovely looking car better styling than the Japanese 5 door hatch. So 31,000K smooth as silk --saved 350 thou more in the bank, Have your view, but same as aircraft don't comment unless you have flown in one. Live in China--or read any writeups as much as you want. DRIVE one for 30,000 K

Edited March 28, 2013 by metisdead

[aussiebebe]

This isn't really relevant to a thread about Chinese investment in Thailand, but I just watched 'Detropia', a documentary about the decline of Detroit. A retired teacher, turned restaurant owner was filmed visiting a Detroit car show and questioning the Chevrolet rep about a rival Chinese company BYD (Build Your Dreams). After looking at the BYD website, I think Thailand would be lucky to have more Chinese investment. BYD manufacture not only electric cars but batteries, solar panels, energy storage, they have really thought about the whole supply chain. BYD recently gave electric cars to a Chinese police force to trial and they even have electric buses. I know build quality is an issue and the Chevy rep in Detropia said as much, but I feel the quicker Thailand adopts green tech (and the sooner the Chinese raise quality and safety standards) the better.
Given that the Chinese basically taught the Thais the art of corruption, if you look at the BYD website you might wonder, I as did, how clean the air might be in Thai cities if a few well-placed backhanders got the Thais into the electric bus game.

Edited March 28, 2013 by aussiebebe

[metisdead]

Off topic posts and replies have been removed.

[BSJ]

The great Wall utes (pick-up) I saw in Oz were nothing special in the looks department, but at the price their only opposition is Tata.....and we all know how expats love Tata's!

[DavoTheGun]

The great Wall utes (pick-up) I saw in Oz were nothing special in the looks department, but at the price their only opposition is Tata.....and we all know how expats love Tata's!

You are quite right about that! Probably close to Lada, Bit the Chinese are not stupid, not like Thai who think all Farang are stupid, ( and every body else not Thai) they forget that not so long ago only driving Bullock Carts, now look at it! Driving Chinese cars at a great of knots, now see what happens driving badly built Chinese cars, the mind boggles !!

[jackspratt]

Based on this thread, it seems that China-bashing is fast approaching Thailand-bashing as the national sport of many of TVF's best and brightest.

For those who talk about a preference for foreign brands in China - where do you reckon the vast majority of those foreign brands are manufactured?

On a side-note, in Oz there is still an ignorant minority which slam Korean cars, based on their quality standards of 20 years ago. I have no doubt that those checking on TFV in 2033 will find the same ignorance still being displayed here.

[retell]

Based on this thread, it seems that China-bashing is fast approaching Thailand-bashing as the national sport of many of TVF's best and brightest.

For those who talk about a preference for foreign brands in China - where do you reckon the vast majority of those foreign brands are manufactured?

On a side-note, in Oz there is still an ignorant minority which slam Korean cars, based on their quality standards of 20 years ago. I have no doubt that those checking on TFV in 2033 will find the same ignorance still being displayed here.

referring to a great aussie product as ..... koalas kiwis and kangaroos

[wolf5370]

Remember the Datsun Cherry---baby car----engine not bad BUT what a rotbox---sorry it was about 1970s I think.

I had a Datsun Cherry - blew two engines! Hated the bloody thing, no end of trouble with it!

Other than just one other (Shogun 3ltr) the only Japanese car I ever owned (until now).

Cars: Ford Escourt Mk1 Mexico (USA), Austin Maxi (UK), Rover SDI V8 (ex CID car at 19 lol!), Cherry (Yuk - Jpn), Rover 216 (UK), Citroen BX (Fr), Rover 800 (UK), Jaguar S-Type V8 (UK/USA), Shogon (Jpn), Dodge Charger (USA), Renault Megane (Fr), Triumph TR7 (UK), BL Ambulance (project, erm don't ask - UK), Fiat 500 (Ital - bought for family member who used it once!), Morris Minor (UK - 1957 model beauty), and several other Euro and American cars (many of these at the same time or overlapped).

Now I have another Japanese car - Mitsu Lancer, another piece of crap that breaks down all the time. No, Japanese cars are not desirable for me!

[maidu]

A few posts earlier there was a post mentioning electric cars. That interests me. If Chinese could come along with one or two viable electric cars, that might be cool. Somehow, I don't see it catching on in Thailand, or at least not before westerners get established with alternatives overseas. Chinese and Thais just don't have the pioneering spirit needed to 'think outside the box' and try innovative new things.

[axact]

Yeah totally agree rubbish cars but i am old enough to remember the first Japanese cars (Datsun) coming to the UK and the likes of British Leyland and Vauxhall openly laughing at them. Well roll on 20 years they were not laughing from the unemployment lines as Japan took over the car and motorcycle industries and showed us how to do it, so the same will happen with China they will get better as time goes on as they already have in the electronics market.

hahaha any one remembers the 1970's fiats / citroen / and more of that crap those were allready corroding in the showroom

but they got (a bit ) better at it

I recall going to a Leyland plant in Birmingham in the 70's to see brand new Sherpa van shells rusting in lines outside and many of the 70/80's produced Leyland cars were rust buckets as were Vauxhalls and those from the Rootes group were just as bad. I think it was an industry wide problem.

The Chinese growth,is hardly surprising, China is the biggest new car buyer in the world, local industries are bound to produce for there home market and for those poorer neighbours who don't manufacture as their products are far cheaper than mainstream vehicles. A lot of people who previously got around on motorcycles would probably never be able to afford a Toyota but could a Chinese car. Perhaps mainstream manufacturers are missing out here, Tata seemed to have the right Idea with the $1300 Nano.

As pointed out the quality will improve so those telling Skoda type jokes should remember how that turned out.

[arthurwait]

I would use the term 'Automobiles' loosely.

Probably some of the worst cars in history were excreted from China.

This is the best they can do....COPY...badly I may add.

When in Rome........

[arthurwait]

A few posts earlier there was a post mentioning electric cars. That interests me. If Chinese could come along with one or two viable electric cars, that might be cool. Somehow, I don't see it catching on in Thailand, or at least not before westerners get established with alternatives overseas. Chinese and Thais just don't have the pioneering spirit needed to 'think outside the box' and try innovative new things.

Have you heard of the G-WHizz ? Now imagine a Chinese designed electric car made in Thailand with no safety tests.

Just in case you haven't heard of the G-WHizz.

[Thai at Heart]

Yeah totally agree rubbish cars but i am old enough to remember the first Japanese cars (Datsun) coming to the UK and the likes of British Leyland and Vauxhall openly laughing at them. Well roll on 20 years they were not laughing from the unemployment lines as Japan took over the car and motorcycle industries and showed us how to do it, so the same will happen with China they will get better as time goes on as they already have in the electronics market.

hahaha any one remembers the 1970's fiats / citroen / and more of that crap those were allready corroding in the showroom

but they got (a bit ) better at it

I recall going to a Leyland plant in Birmingham in the 70's to see brand new Sherpa van shells rusting in lines outside and many of the 70/80's produced Leyland cars were rust buckets as were Vauxhalls and those from the Rootes group were just as bad. I think it was an industry wide problem.

The Chinese growth,is hardly surprising, China is the biggest new car buyer in the world, local industries are bound to produce for there home market and for those poorer neighbours who don't manufacture as their products are far cheaper than mainstream vehicles. A lot of people who previously got around on motorcycles would probably never be able to afford a Toyota but could a Chinese car. Perhaps mainstream manufacturers are missing out here, Tata seemed to have the right Idea with the $1300 Nano.

As pointed out the quality will improve so those telling Skoda type jokes should remember how that turned out.

Well, it did take Volkswagen to sort out Skoda.

[EyesWideOpen]

Ahhh China bashing.....So easy to do it is almost irresistible. :-)

Ok here is the deal. China manufactures products on two levels. One is where a foreign company comes in , sets up a plant, and using quality control manufactures a very good product. A perfect example of this would be an Iphone.

The other level is China based companies , who basically manufacture complete crap with cost rather than quality as the ultimate control. These are the products that are destroying China's reputation in the manufacturing world.

Small example. I was helping a friend mount a TV screen at his guest house. I needed to drill some holes through two layers of sheet metal. He handed me a set of Chinese tools with a drill bit set. When I tried to drill the sheet metal, the bit bent backwards into a U shape it was so soft... I called them illusion tools, as they looked like tools but were completely unusable.....

So if China makes cars here, it will be interesting to see what kind of cars they manufacture. I will assume all the parts will be made in China and shipped here for assembly.

I can only hope that someone like Deming does not come into China and teach them quality manufacturing, the same as he did in Japan and transformed the country.

http://www.hci.com.au/hcisite2/articles/deming.htm

"W Edwards Deming was an American statistician who was credited with the rise of Japan as a manufacturing nation, and with the invention of Total Quality Management (TQM). Deming went to Japan just after the War to help set up a census of the Japanese population. While he was there, he taught 'statistical process control' to Japanese engineers - a set of techniques which allowed them to manufacture high-quality goods without expensive machinery. In 1960 he was awarded a medal by the Japanese Emperor for his services to that country's industry."

Edited March 28, 2013 by EyesWideOpen

[wolf5370]

Ahhh China bashing.....So easy to do it is almost irresistible. :-)

Ok here is the deal. China manufactures products on two levels. One is where a foreign company comes in , sets up a plant, and using quality control manufactures a very good product. A perfect example of this would be an Iphone.

The other level is China based companies , who basically manufacture complete crap with cost rather than quality as the ultimate control. These are the products that are destroying China's reputation in the manufacturing world.

Small example. I was helping a friend mount a TV screen at his guest house. I needed to drill some holes through two layers of sheet metal. He handed me a set of Chinese tools with a drill bit set. When I tried to drill the sheet metal, the bit bent backwards into a U shape it was so soft... I called them illusion tools, as they looked like tools but were completely unusable.....

So if China makes cars here, it will be interesting to see what kind of cars they manufacture. I will assume all the parts will be made in China and shipped here for assembly.

I can only hope that someone like Deming does not come into China and teach them quality manufacturing, the same as he did in Japan and transformed the country.

http://www.hci.com.au/hcisite2/articles/deming.htm

"W Edwards Deming was an American statistician who was credited with the rise of Japan as a manufacturing nation, and with the invention of Total Quality Management (TQM). Deming went to Japan just after the War to help set up a census of the Japanese population. While he was there, he taught 'statistical process control' to Japanese engineers - a set of techniques which allowed them to manufacture high-quality goods without expensive machinery. In 1960 he was awarded a medal by the Japanese Emperor for his services to that country's industry."

Wow - so he got a medal from Japan and they went on to pretty much decimate American manufacturing thanks to his teachings - bet he didn't get one from the President too!

[retell]

Remember the Datsun Cherry---baby car----engine not bad BUT what a rotbox---sorry it was about 1970s I think.

I had a Datsun Cherry - blew two engines! Hated the bloody thing, no end of trouble with it!

Other than just one other (Shogun 3ltr) the only Japanese car I ever owned (until now).

Cars: Ford Escourt Mk1 Mexico (USA), Austin Maxi (UK), Rover SDI V8 (ex CID car at 19 lol!), Cherry (Yuk - Jpn), Rover 216 (UK), Citroen BX (Fr), Rover 800 (UK), Jaguar S-Type V8 (UK/USA), Shogon (Jpn), Dodge Charger (USA), Renault Megane (Fr), Triumph TR7 (UK), BL Ambulance (project, erm don't ask - UK), Fiat 500 (Ital - bought for family member who used it once!), Morris Minor (UK - 1957 model beauty), and several other Euro and American cars (many of these at the same time or overlapped).

Now I have another Japanese car - Mitsu Lancer, another piece of crap that breaks down all the time. No, Japanese cars are not desirable for me!

your the kind of guy ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,v8 all te way charger to citroen not even v6

[EyesWideOpen]

Ahhh China bashing.....So easy to do it is almost irresistible. :-)

Ok here is the deal. China manufactures products on two levels. One is where a foreign company comes in , sets up a plant, and using quality control manufactures a very good product. A perfect example of this would be an Iphone.

The other level is China based companies , who basically manufacture complete crap with cost rather than quality as the ultimate control. These are the products that are destroying China's reputation in the manufacturing world.

Small example. I was helping a friend mount a TV screen at his guest house. I needed to drill some holes through two layers of sheet metal. He handed me a set of Chinese tools with a drill bit set. When I tried to drill the sheet metal, the bit bent backwards into a U shape it was so soft... I called them illusion tools, as they looked like tools but were completely unusable.....

So if China makes cars here, it will be interesting to see what kind of cars they manufacture. I will assume all the parts will be made in China and shipped here for assembly.

I can only hope that someone like Deming does not come into China and teach them quality manufacturing, the same as he did in Japan and transformed the country.

http://www.hci.com.au/hcisite2/articles/deming.htm

"W Edwards Deming was an American statistician who was credited with the rise of Japan as a manufacturing nation, and with the invention of Total Quality Management (TQM). Deming went to Japan just after the War to help set up a census of the Japanese population. While he was there, he taught 'statistical process control' to Japanese engineers - a set of techniques which allowed them to manufacture high-quality goods without expensive machinery. In 1960 he was awarded a medal by the Japanese Emperor for his services to that country's industry."

Wow - so he got a medal from Japan and they went on to pretty much decimate American manufacturing thanks to his teachings - bet he didn't get one from the President too!

You are exactly correct, the net effect to America was very negative. So if China ever figures out quality manufacturing, that will have a disruptive effect as well. That is why I said I hope it does not happen.... :-)

[wolf5370]

Remember the Datsun Cherry---baby car----engine not bad BUT what a rotbox---sorry it was about 1970s I think.

I had a Datsun Cherry - blew two engines! Hated the bloody thing, no end of trouble with it!

Other than just one other (Shogun 3ltr) the only Japanese car I ever owned (until now).

Cars: Ford Escourt Mk1 Mexico (USA), Austin Maxi (UK), Rover SDI V8 (ex CID car at 19 lol!), Cherry (Yuk - Jpn), Rover 216 (UK), Citroen BX (Fr), Rover 800 (UK), Jaguar S-Type V8 (UK/USA), Shogon (Jpn), Dodge Charger (USA), Renault Megane (Fr), Triumph TR7 (UK), BL Ambulance (project, erm don't ask - UK), Fiat 500 (Ital - bought for family member who used it once!), Morris Minor (UK - 1957 model beauty), and several other Euro and American cars (many of these at the same time or overlapped).

Now I have another Japanese car - Mitsu Lancer, another piece of crap that breaks down all the time. No, Japanese cars are not desirable for me!

your the kind of guy ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,v8 all te way charger to citroen not even v6

The BX I bought before I had the charger etc - onlky V8 util then was the SDI - very very fast car(for a 19 year old kid) but I just couldn't afford to run it back then. BX was interesting because it had the hydrolic lift thingy where you had a control to jack it up and down.

The Megane I bought for the Mrs - second hand - she didn't like it (it was fully loaded, leather and electric everything - nice car) she said it wobbled at high speed - erm. So I got her the Dodge (we had them at the same time), new, she loved it- fast and also electric everything (she drives like a bloke!), kept the megane as a backup car until I accidently ripped the from axel off it TR7 was cute too - bought on an EBay whim, was owned by the guy who run the owners club and had every receipt from new, drove it around the M25 for a couple of years (brakes are frightening!!!) finally gave it to my brother in law (it was written off by an RAC man reversing over it in a van! - too low to see in his rear view).

[Plastic Brontosaurus]

Wounder if they will be released here with the same safety requirements, features as those sold in OZ.

There was a stink about Great Wall and Chery having asbestos in their vehicles which needed to be removed. Here's one of several articles about this:

http://www.businessweek.com/news/2012-08-14/asbestos-forces-china-car-recall-blow-to-chery-great-wall

[asupeartea]

Here is Great Wall's website in the UK.

[asupeartea]

I like the auto eject feature just after you've had your legs crushed off.

A few posts earlier there was a post mentioning electric cars. That interests me. If Chinese could come along with one or two viable electric cars, that might be cool. Somehow, I don't see it catching on in Thailand, or at least not before westerners get established with alternatives overseas. Chinese and Thais just don't have the pioneering spirit needed to 'think outside the box' and try innovative new things.

Have you heard of the G-WHizz ? Now imagine a Chinese designed electric car made in Thailand with no safety tests.

Just in case you haven't heard of the G-WHizz.

[asupeartea]

You get what you pay for. I had a Chinese-made Chinese brand e-bike/scooter in China. It was a good little machine for the price. I paid 12,000 baht and it ran flawlessly for the year and a half I owned it. Unfortunately, it was stolen the only time I didn't chain it to my kitchen window. If I'd been able to keep it another year or so, it would have started to fall apart. Labor being dirt cheap there, I could have had it fixed for a little pocket change or gone out and bought another new one, like we do for almost anything these days. The Chinese make cheap products meant to be chucked into the trash every couple of years. Unlike other countries/manufacturers (Mini b4 BMW, GM, Citroen) that pretend otherwise.

A few posts earlier there was a post mentioning electric cars. That interests me. If Chinese could come along with one or two viable electric cars, that might be cool. Somehow, I don't see it catching on in Thailand, or at least not before westerners get established with alternatives overseas. Chinese and Thais just don't have the pioneering spirit needed to 'think outside the box' and try innovative new things.

Have you heard of the G-WHizz ? Now imagine a Chinese designed electric car made in Thailand with no safety tests.

Just in case you haven't heard of the G-WHizz.

[ginjag]

Remember the Datsun Cherry---baby car----engine not bad BUT what a rotbox---sorry it was about 1970s I think.

I had a Datsun Cherry - blew two engines! Hated the bloody thing, no end of trouble with it!

Other than just one other (Shogun 3ltr) the only Japanese car I ever owned (until now).

Cars: Ford Escourt Mk1 Mexico (USA), Austin Maxi (UK), Rover SDI V8 (ex CID car at 19 lol!), Cherry (Yuk - Jpn), Rover 216 (UK), Citroen BX (Fr), Rover 800 (UK), Jaguar S-Type V8 (UK/USA), Shogon (Jpn), Dodge Charger (USA), Renault Megane (Fr), Triumph TR7 (UK), BL Ambulance (project, erm don't ask - UK), Fiat 500 (Ital - bought for family member who used it once!), Morris Minor (UK - 1957 model beauty), and several other Euro and American cars (many of these at the same time or overlapped).

Now I have another Japanese car - Mitsu Lancer, another piece of crap that breaks down all the time. No, Japanese cars are not desirable for me!

Please try a toyota Vios, I had one here 5 years and only had to have it servicedm 5 big seats fast enough for anyone--quiet --and economy good---resale value among the best, Had 2 honda Jazz I travel Udon Jomptien... and never a breakdown....165 kilometers,,,, Unless you want to give Sri Lanka a try--go back in time there they are still upkeeping Westminsters--A40---Minor 1000---Brill there.

[Publicus]

Based on this thread, it seems that China-bashing is fast approaching Thailand-bashing as the national sport of many of TVF's best and brightest.

For those who talk about a preference for foreign brands in China - where do you reckon the vast majority of those foreign brands are manufactured?

On a side-note, in Oz there is still an ignorant minority which slam Korean cars, based on their quality standards of 20 years ago. I have no doubt that those checking on TFV in 2033 will find the same ignorance still being displayed here.

Dream on.

Chinese look down on Chinese who own a Chinese car, pointing out that the Chinese made car is "cheaper." A Chinese will never complete the sentence by saying "cheaper and junk," but that's the reality for the people who know best, i.e., the Chinese themselves. National socialism with Chinese characteristics has produced a mangle of privately owned car manufacturers competing against state owned carmakers. The state owned carmakers of course get subsidies in violation of WTO rules but, perhaps worse, kill the market for the private auto makers. The mangling of the auto industry in the CCP's PRC is not an isolated matter - the state interferes with every industry, which of course squeezes, impedes or, preferably, drives out the private sector. Last year state television spent a lot of time attacking Volkswagen because of its highly successful sales record in China.

Foreign auto brands are under attack in the state owned and operated media, an attack which now is extending to Apple, Carrefour and other globally respected brands. The Boyz in Beijing have firmly decided to drive out of China foreign brands that produce both consumer and durable goods because the domestic producers, whether private or public, cannot compete. This recent negative development has communicated to global brands around the world that the CCP no longer wants their competition on the Mainland. It also is the result of the Chinese not being able to grab the technology of BMW, Benz, Buick, VW, Chevy and other popular brands that dominate the car market in China, to include other industries such as Apple, Yum and so many others.

So, as the new leaders of the CCP-PRC know they need to change the paradigm of their economy, from export based to domestic consumer based, this leaves the Chinese consumer stuck with consumer and durable goods of low quality which rapidly are moving further downscale. This is not a formula for a successful future. At the rate the CCP is mismanaging and malgoverning its PRC, the only way 2033 would be a good year for China is if China has managed to recover from its economic and political collapse due to the corrupt regime of the dictators who rule in their own interests only.

http://www.theepochtimes.com/n2/china-news/chinas-debt-crisis-looms-economists-say-369183.html

Edited March 29, 2013 by Publicus

[jackspratt]

Based on this thread, it seems that China-bashing is fast approaching Thailand-bashing as the national sport of many of TVF's best and brightest.

For those who talk about a preference for foreign brands in China - where do you reckon the vast majority of those foreign brands are manufactured?

On a side-note, in Oz there is still an ignorant minority which slam Korean cars, based on their quality standards of 20 years ago. I have no doubt that those checking on TFV in 2033 will find the same ignorance still being displayed here.

Dream on.

Chinese look down on Chinese who own a Chinese car, pointing out that the Chinese made car is "cheaper." A Chinese will never complete the sentence by saying "cheaper and junk," but that's the reality for the people who know best, i.e., the Chinese themselves. National socialism with Chinese characteristics has produced a mangle of privately owned car manufacturers competing against state owned carmakers. The state owned carmakers of course get subsidies in violation of WTO rules but, perhaps worse, kill the market for the private auto makers. The mangling of the auto industry in the CCP's PRC is not an isolated matter - the state interferes with every industry, which of course squeezes, impedes or, preferably, drives out the private sector. Last year state television spent a lot of time attacking Volkswagen because of its highly successful sales record in China.

Foreign auto brands are under attack in the state owned and operated media, an attack which now is extending to Apple, Carrefour and other globally respected brands. The Boyz in Beijing have firmly decided to drive out of China foreign brands that produce both consumer and durable goods because the domestic producers, whether private or public, cannot compete. This recent negative development has communicated to global brands around the world that the CCP no longer wants their competition on the Mainland. It also is the result of the Chinese not being able to grab the technology of BMW, Benz, Buick, VW, Chevy and other popular brands that dominate the car market in China, to include other industries such as Apple, Yum and so many others.

So, as the new leaders of the CCP-PRC know they need to change the paradigm of their economy, from export based to domestic consumer based, this leaves the Chinese consumer stuck with consumer and durable goods of low quality which rapidly are moving further downscale. This is not a formula for a successful future. At the rate the CCP is mismanaging and malgoverning its PRC, the only way 2033 would be a good year for China is if China has managed to recover from its economic and political collapse due to the corrupt regime of the dictators who rule in their own interests only.

http://www.theepochtimes.com/n2/china-news/chinas-debt-crisis-looms-economists-say-369183.html

Q.E.D.

p.s. your use of the Falun Gong produced Epoch Times as a reference is noted.

[Thai at Heart]

Based on this thread, it seems that China-bashing is fast approaching Thailand-bashing as the national sport of many of TVF's best and brightest.

For those who talk about a preference for foreign brands in China - where do you reckon the vast majority of those foreign brands are manufactured?

On a side-note, in Oz there is still an ignorant minority which slam Korean cars, based on their quality standards of 20 years ago. I have no doubt that those checking on TFV in 2033 will find the same ignorance still being displayed here.

Dream on.

Chinese look down on Chinese who own a Chinese car, pointing out that the Chinese made car is "cheaper." A Chinese will never complete the sentence by saying "cheaper and junk," but that's the reality for the people who know best, i.e., the Chinese themselves. National socialism with Chinese characteristics has produced a mangle of privately owned car manufacturers competing against state owned carmakers. The state owned carmakers of course get subsidies in violation of WTO rules but, perhaps worse, kill the market for the private auto makers. The mangling of the auto industry in the CCP's PRC is not an isolated matter - the state interferes with every industry, which of course squeezes, impedes or, preferably, drives out the private sector. Last year state television spent a lot of time attacking Volkswagen because of its highly successful sales record in China.

Foreign auto brands are under attack in the state owned and operated media, an attack which now is extending to Apple, Carrefour and other globally respected brands. The Boyz in Beijing have firmly decided to drive out of China foreign brands that produce both consumer and durable goods because the domestic producers, whether private or public, cannot compete. This recent negative development has communicated to global brands around the world that the CCP no longer wants their competition on the Mainland. It also is the result of the Chinese not being able to grab the technology of BMW, Benz, Buick, VW, Chevy and other popular brands that dominate the car market in China, to include other industries such as Apple, Yum and so many others.

So, as the new leaders of the CCP-PRC know they need to change the paradigm of their economy, from export based to domestic consumer based, this leaves the Chinese consumer stuck with consumer and durable goods of low quality which rapidly are moving further downscale. This is not a formula for a successful future. At the rate the CCP is mismanaging and malgoverning its PRC, the only way 2033 would be a good year for China is if China has managed to recover from its economic and political collapse due to the corrupt regime of the dictators who rule in their own interests only.

http://www.theepochtimes.com/n2/china-news/chinas-debt-crisis-looms-economists-say-369183.html

Q.E.D.

p.s. your use of the Falun Gong produced Epoch Times as a reference is noted.

But when you see the stories about the attacks on Apple this week, it is obvious that there is a tactic to smear western brands in China.

Thing is, patriotism ends once a Chinese consumer decides what to buy. Capitalism outweighs nationalism. Foreign brands waited donkeys years to successfully penetrate the Chinese domestic market, but it has come at a time when the Chinese realise they need domestic consumption for their growth. However, since all the stuff is made there anyway, don't really see the economic difference of buying foreign or Chinese inside the Chinese market.

[jackspratt]

But when you see the stories about the attacks on Apple this week, it is obvious that there is a tactic to smear western brands in China.

This interesting opinion piece from the Economist looks at some possible reasons behind the attacks, one of which is quid pro quo for treatment of Chinese firms abroad e.g. Huawei in the US.

http://www.economist.com/blogs/analects/2013/03/apple-china

[Thai at Heart]

But when you see the stories about the attacks on Apple this week, it is obvious that there is a tactic to smear western brands in China.

This interesting opinion piece from the Economist looks at some possible reasons behind the attacks, one of which is quid pro quo for treatment of Chinese firms abroad e.g. Huawei in the US.

http://www.economist.com/blogs/analects/2013/03/apple-china

Yes I saw the article. Times are a changing, but it isn't just in the USA that Huawei has run into trouble. National security issues are often cited for protectionism. But considering that the Chinese operate the great firewall of China, and take huge efforts to control the communications network in the country, it isn't completely unreasonable that Huawei runs into trouble trying to sell internet and telephony infrastructure outside China.