Falling Deep Into The Well Of Distrust: Thai Opinion

[webfact]

STREETWISE
Falling deep into the well of distrust
Achara Deboonme



BANGKOK: -- A conversation last week shed some light on why many attack the Pheu Thai government over the Bt2 trillion borrowing bill. The point here is distrust, which culminates into several fallacies.

Some people firmly believe that the 50-year repayment period is too long. There is no assurance at all to guarantee that the investment for infrastructure will be corruption-free. Much of the fear stems from the fact that the plan is being initiated by the Pheu Thai government, the former Thai Rak Thai Party, which intimidated many with its grandiose schemes.

Point by point, the fears seem reasonable. Fifty years is a long time. Concerns are rising as public debt will increase by another Bt2 trillion on a mandate given to one government. Thai governments have borrowed all the time; public debt is now around Bt5 trillion and it remains unknown when it will be paid off.

On the second point, there is no mechanism to guarantee no corruption. The government promises that all investment projects will be screened as thoroughly as other projects included in the annual budgeting process. It is the same process all governments have followed - the same process that has resulted in notoriety for the Kingdom in terms of corruption ranking.

Concern triples when it is Pheu Thai initiating the project. Most people on the social media have memories of TRT leader Thaksin Shinawatra and his grand plan to take control of this country. This must be a part of his plan. Certainly, Thaksin's populist policies - involving handing out free money - are so successful that many fear that infrastructure investment will be just like that.

Few remember that Pheu Thai ministers said during the debate that the Anti-Corruption Organisation of Thailand would take part in overseeing the transparency of the scheme. To those who do recall, they appear to have no confidence in the organisation. The scepticism is reasonable, as the organisation doesn't have its own channel to communicate with the public. It still has no website.

The level of distrust is so high that some people think it best that we put the investment plan on hold.

Is it so? Over the past 10 years, annual budgets for government investment averaged below Bt400 billion, or below 20 per cent of total expenditure. What did we get in return? No new ports, new electric train lines or motorways. For the governments of those years, Thailand had so little money for major infrastructure projects. Based on the Purple Line's cost of about Bt100 billion, those governments apparently believed that it was unfair to put one-fourth of the annual investment budget in an electric train line that would only benefit Bangkok people.

In the past few decades, without a synchronised plan, bidding for expressways was called for by several governments. The result is that while people in west Bangkok pay Bt55 maximum to get downtown, those in the east pay Bt105. But despite the higher toll, people in the east still thank respective governments for the expressways. Yes, in this twisted world, we can still see a good side in a bad thing.

Unlike some poorly-planned populist policies, Pheu Thai's infrastructure projects may somehow benefit us. So if the government can lose Bt100 billion in excise tax for its first-car-buyer scheme and Bt100 billion a year for the rice-price pledging scheme, we should be glad that it will pour money into lasting steel and concrete structures.

I'm also concerned about the debt burden, but such fear should not hold us from moving ahead. Instead, all of us should strike at our fear at its root. First, we can press for the government to explain the benefits of each project. Second, make sure that the procurement process is posted clearly on the Internet as promised by the government. Third, compare the cost of the projects with something relevant. Fourth, keep an eye on bid winners, to make sure that they are not connected to politicians. Fifth, make sure that the government keeps the promise to pay the Bt2 trillion debt within the specified period.

The must-do list is lengthy, but most importantly we must deal with corruption at its root.

What corrupts people? I'm convinced that money comes with power, and vice versa. But why do the rich yearn for power, and why do powerful people crave money? Convenience is the ultimate dream, or is it because of recognition, or both?

Last week, an acquaintance admitted that at social functions, as she rubs elbows with hi-so people who wear wristwatches worth millions of baht, she is embarrassed that she only has a Cartier. I don't blame her. People can be intimidated. As long as people still look at others' accessories to determine the level of interaction, that will only drive people to impress through accessories not true values.

Knowing this, some countries have put in place systems to prevent corruption. Singapore in particular demands that all of its ambassadors report gifts, big or small. The government evaluates the gift's value and if the ambassador wants to keep it, he or she must pay the evaluation price. The money goes to the government.

Many countries put in place rules to control malpractice. In March, American regulators implemented a so-called "Sunshine Law" designed to improve transparency in drug companies' dealings with doctors. France passed a similar law in 2011. Firms in Britain are planning voluntary disclosures. According to consultancy Deloitte, by 2015 more than 70 per cent of drug sales will be in countries with such measures.

These systems can be applied here. Alas, distrust will make some people say, "It can't prove that we will be free of corruption." I guess that corruption and instability in Thailand has got to the point where we have lost trust in everything. While corruption prevents us from moving upward, paranoia and distrust effectively pulls us backward.

It was not surprising to hear a diplomat say last week that without political stability, Thailand's per-capita income could have doubled to US$8,000 by now. Thailand has a lot of potential, he said. Yes, but only if we can slay our old ghosts and move forward.


-- The Nation 2013-04-09

[NeverSure]

Oh, but as long as I get my little bit, like the excise tax rebate on a new car, or a no down payment loan on a new house, or the government buys my rice above market rate, or I get free something, I'll vote for you and look the other way. I just want my share when you run the government into the hole.

Government money isn't my money. What do I care?

[chainarong]

I couldn't trust this mob of spiffs to put the bin out, the westminster or similar US styled systems are possibly the only way to go, though, they are not 100% perfect, checks and balances are indeed a part of these types of government, this (Thai) crowd set this system up simply because there's nothing in it for them with the western styled systems, some of us remember the excerpts in the paper when they formed the constitution, if it wasn't for the UNI academic's, the situation would be 300% worse. History has a bad habit of repeating itself.

[bigbamboo]

Can you name one Thai politician you would trust?

[h90]

chainarong, on 09 Apr 2013 - 07:43, said:

I couldn't trust this mob of spiffs to put the bin out, the westminster or similar US styled systems are possibly the only way to go, though, they are not 100% perfect, checks and balances are indeed a part of these types of government, this (Thai) crowd set this system up simply because there's nothing in it for them with the western styled systems, some of us remember the excerpts in the paper when they formed the constitution, if it wasn't for the UNI academic's, the situation would be 300% worse. History has a bad habit of repeating itself.

Well the US styled system is a complete fail in my opinion...why not a Swiss system, or an Austrian system?

Anyway we move towards a North Korean system....

[hellodolly]

Also they falsely misrepresent the plan. For instance the Train to Chiang Mai will not go all the way there. It will go so far and there will be two more stages of construction they are hoping the private sector will pay for them.

The same with the other proposed fast trains neither one goes to where they say it goes part way and the rest is up to private enterprise.

All this money pouring into there coffers and not one baht of it going to help the already overworked and underpaid medical system.

I know it is a dream but if they would eliminate corruption they would be able to spend the 2.2 trillion baht and at the end of 10 years have it paid off rather than passed on to their grandchildren.

[justathought]

the government needs to spend to usurp. This is how corruption works throughout Asia. Big projects with big budgets that the politicians can use to fill up their pockets.

Then again why are we lamenting on Asians looting Asians. The farangs have been doing this for centuries often killing and enslaving to get their pockets filled. And of course they continue in many parts of the world.

Edited April 9, 2013 by justathought

[smutcakes]

Also they falsely misrepresent the plan. For instance the Train to Chiang Mai will not go all the way there. It will go so far and there will be two more stages of construction they are hoping the private sector will pay for them.

The same with the other proposed fast trains neither one goes to where they say it goes part way and the rest is up to private enterprise.

All this money pouring into there coffers and not one baht of it going to help the already overworked and underpaid medical system.

I know it is a dream but if they would eliminate corruption they would be able to spend the 2.2 trillion baht and at the end of 10 years have it paid off rather than passed on to their grandchildren.

Where did this information come from re the trains? Not trying to discredit, generally interested in what the plan is- as everyone knows there is very little information about them.

[Mampara]

And That my friends, is why we will always be a developing country. No more, No less

[Mampara]

the government needs to spend to usurp. This is how corruption works throughout Asia. Big projects with big budgets that the politicians can use to fill up their pockets.

Then again why are we lamenting on Asians looting Asians. The farangs have been doing this for centuries often killing and enslaving to get their pockets filled. And of course they continue in many parts of the world.

Ferangs come from another part of the world, This is Thailand, with different ethics and culture. stop comparing us with other people and countries. This is really a lame excuse, don't you think?

[Roadman]

Quote Last Paragraph

"It was not surprising to hear a diplomat say last week that without political stability, Thailand's per-capita income could have doubled to US$8,000 by now. Thailand has a lot of potential, he said. Yes, but only if we can slay our old ghosts and move forward."

Thailand could be one of the richest country's in the world in very quick time. It has huge potential to do a lot better than it currently does. Thats means actually doing things by a public law and will. The losers sitting at the end are the Isaanites in their millions, still on the poverty line selling or producing their daughters to the brothel owners. The sadness in it all is the Isaanite Khwai are some of the most beautiful hearted people in this world. Bonded to their Red Mao style leadership. The Reds are incapable as at the end of the day their leaders are hard line Maoists, sold to the Shinawatra family. And very few in the halls of corrupt power care about them. A good percentage of visitors to Thailand like it that way as well.

We had an old saying where I grew up, and I am not amazed at the times I have heard it or very similiar expressions in Thailand...."keep them poor and bare footed" mostly from falangs describing their thai partners. The Amart Thai's already do it so welcome falang to Thai culture.

Isaanites are not going anywhere until an alignment occurs...there is someone with support in the halls of power who actually cares about them, and they themselves can find non-Amart, non-Maoist supported leadership. Do pigs fly...

[AleG]

How can you trust a government were the leader is a criminal on the run? How can you trust it when you can't say for sure who is responsible for it's decisions? Is it the figurehead PM or the actual PM? Who do MPs answer to, the electorate, Yingluck or Thaksin?

There's no transparency, there's no accountability and there's a long sordid history of this crew using public office for their own financial gain and of grandiose, headline grabbing projects that collapse when met with reality (Elite Card, War on Drugs, Rice Scheme, etc, etc...)

You can't build trust on that foundation, it's impossible. Either they have the support of the indoctrinated true believers, the enabling apathy of jaded majority led to not giving a hoot about it all or the crooks that benefit (or believe they'll benefit) from having a group of bandits running the show.

[WhizBang]

How can you trust a government were the leader is a criminal on the run? How can you trust it when you can't say for sure who is responsible for it's decisions? Is it the figurehead PM or the actual PM? Who do MPs answer to, the electorate, Yingluck or Thaksin?

There's no transparency, there's no accountability and there's a long sordid history of this crew using public office for their own financial gain and of grandiose, headline grabbing projects that collapse when met with reality (Elite Card, War on Drugs, Rice Scheme, etc, etc...)

You can't build trust on that foundation, it's impossible. Either they have the support of the indoctrinated true believers, the enabling apathy of jaded majority led to not giving a hoot about it all or the crooks that benefit (or believe they'll benefit) from having a group of bandits running the show.

Would you care to repeat that in plain english, because what you said makes no sense to me.

[OzMick]

".....without political stability, Thailand's per-capita income could have doubled.........."

Should we assume misreporting and substitute "with political stability" or perhaps "without political instability"?

Or should we assume that the diplomat recognises the organised theft and maladministration of a Thaksin led government?

[Markaew]

the government needs to spend to usurp. This is how corruption works throughout Asia. Big projects with big budgets that the politicians can use to fill up their pockets.

Then again why are we lamenting on Asians looting Asians. The farangs have been doing this for centuries often killing and enslaving to get their pockets filled. And of course they continue in many parts of the world.

Ferangs come from another part of the world, This is Thailand, with different ethics and culture. stop comparing us with other people and countries. This is really a lame excuse, don't you think?

Yes, but this plan is a near copy of the US stimulus of 2008/09. The Thai government apparently learned from the US.

Let's borrow a massive amount of money, sling it around where virtually no one can track it, and see how much we can steal.

The Thais are closely watching at many events happening in the US now. Here now in the news are same-sex unions. That is a hot topic in the US now.

Does anyone feel like there is a global plan in play?

Edited April 9, 2013 by Markaew

[rametindallas]

Can you name one Thai politician you would trust?

Chuwit Kamolvisit?

[rametindallas]

Even if this project weren't about trust, the economy is overheated and the unemployment rate is less than 1%. There aren't enough workers to spend Baht 2T in a timely manner. They have hardly begun the most important project they already have borrowed Baht 300B for i.e. flood prevention. Show me one positive project this government hasn't lost money on.

[seajae]

as long as thaksin is seen running this govt there will be no trust, just the fact that a wanted criminal holds the reigns and tells the current govt what to do and how to do it shows how corrupt they are. I wouldnt trust them with anything let alone that much money.

[justathought]

the government needs to spend to usurp. This is how corruption works throughout Asia. Big projects with big budgets that the politicians can use to fill up their pockets.

Then again why are we lamenting on Asians looting Asians. The farangs have been doing this for centuries often killing and enslaving to get their pockets filled. And of course they continue in many parts of the world.

Ferangs come from another part of the world, This is Thailand, with different ethics and culture. stop comparing us with other people and countries. This is really a lame excuse, don't you think?

Yes, but this plan is a near copy of the US stimulus of 2008/09. The Thai government apparently learned from the US.

Let's borrow a massive amount of money, sling it around where virtually no one can track it, and see how much we can steal.

The Thais are closely watching at many events happening in the US now. Here now in the news are same-sex unions. That is a hot topic in the US now.

Does anyone feel like there is a global plan in play?

yes, another american import

[justathought]

the government needs to spend to usurp. This is how corruption works throughout Asia. Big projects with big budgets that the politicians can use to fill up their pockets.

Then again why are we lamenting on Asians looting Asians. The farangs have been doing this for centuries often killing and enslaving to get their pockets filled. And of course they continue in many parts of the world.

Ferangs come from another part of the world, This is Thailand, with different ethics and culture. stop comparing us with other people and countries. This is really a lame excuse, don't you think?

yes, you are right. This message for intended for farangs that like to look down on Asians when they usually do much worse.

[JetsetBkk]

".....without political stability, Thailand's per-capita income could have doubled.........."

Should we assume misreporting and substitute "with political stability" or perhaps "without political instability"?

Or should we assume that the diplomat recognises the organised theft and maladministration of a Thaksin led government?

Yes, exactly "with" instead of "without". That had me puzzled for a bit.

[JetsetBkk]

Can you name one Thai politician you would trust?

Chuwit Kamolvisit?

That is... well, I was going to say "funny", but in fact it's quite sad if you actually believe that.

[Markaew]

the government needs to spend to usurp. This is how corruption works throughout Asia. Big projects with big budgets that the politicians can use to fill up their pockets.

Then again why are we lamenting on Asians looting Asians. The farangs have been doing this for centuries often killing and enslaving to get their pockets filled. And of course they continue in many parts of the world.

Ferangs come from another part of the world, This is Thailand, with different ethics and culture. stop comparing us with other people and countries. This is really a lame excuse, don't you think?

Yes, but this plan is a near copy of the US stimulus of 2008/09. The Thai government apparently learned from the US.

Let's borrow a massive amount of money, sling it around where virtually no one can track it, and see how much we can steal.

The Thais are closely watching at many events happening in the US now. Here now in the news are same-sex unions. That is a hot topic in the US now.

Does anyone feel like there is a global plan in play?

yes, another american import

You are missing the point. A global plan not an American plan.

[laobali]

Can you name one Thai politician you would trust?

A dead one with no descendants? No name, though.

[laobali]

How can you trust a government were the leader is a criminal on the run? How can you trust it when you can't say for sure who is responsible for it's decisions? Is it the figurehead PM or the actual PM? Who do MPs answer to, the electorate, Yingluck or Thaksin?

There's no transparency, there's no accountability and there's a long sordid history of this crew using public office for their own financial gain and of grandiose, headline grabbing projects that collapse when met with reality (Elite Card, War on Drugs, Rice Scheme, etc, etc...)

You can't build trust on that foundation, it's impossible. Either they have the support of the indoctrinated true believers, the enabling apathy of jaded majority led to not giving a hoot about it all or the crooks that benefit (or believe they'll benefit) from having a group of bandits running the show.

Would you care to repeat that in plain english, because what you said makes no sense to me.

It makes pretty good sense to me ...

[ramrod711]

My wife was watching the tv news the other night, there was a model of what looked like a train station and several sets of rails. She said that she thought it would be a good thing if they could keep corruption down to 10% instead of the usual 30%. As long as public expectations are so low, how will thing ever change?

[FarangTalk]

Thailand could be one of the richest country's in the world in very quick time. It has huge potential to do a lot better than it currently does. Thats means actually doing things by a public law and will.

The only way it has become rich thus far with the current education system, culture and values is foreign investment, greed and corruption.

It is a house of cards.

[54321]

Can you name one Thai politician you would trust?

I only know one Thai politician as she is a friend of the family but do not really know if i could trust her, but equally, I do not know one British politician I could trust

[AleG]

as long as thaksin is seen running this govt there will be no trust, just the fact that a wanted criminal holds the reigns and tells the current govt what to do and how to do it shows how corrupt they are. I wouldnt trust them with anything let alone that much money.

The last time he was in Thailand and said "Trust me" he skipped bail and ran away. Only a fool would trust such a man or his party.

[phantomfiddler]

Makes lots of sense to me too ! All very obvious.

How can you trust a government were the leader is a criminal on the run? How can you trust it when you can't say for sure who is responsible for it's decisions? Is it the figurehead PM or the actual PM? Who do MPs answer to, the electorate, Yingluck or Thaksin?

There's no transparency, there's no accountability and there's a long sordid history of this crew using public office for their own financial gain and of grandiose, headline grabbing projects that collapse when met with reality (Elite Card, War on Drugs, Rice Scheme, etc, etc...)

You can't build trust on that foundation, it's impossible. Either they have the support of the indoctrinated true believers, the enabling apathy of jaded majority led to not giving a hoot about it all or the crooks that benefit (or believe they'll benefit) from having a group of bandits running the show.

Would you care to repeat that in plain english, because what you said makes no sense to me.

It makes pretty good sense to me ...