F1 For The Motoring Forum

[WarpSpeed]

Well they said 2013 wasn't going to be as diverse as 2012 but so far that doesn't seem to be the case at all, if anything IMO it's been more diverse with several unexpected teams and drivers showing real competitiveness and now there has been 3 races and 3 diverse drivers and teams winning and on the podium. I'm really liking the mix and the back and forth over past seasons of take a nap and wake up to see them still running nose to tail same same for 60 laps with a over domineering Ferrari, Red Bull or McLaren way out front..

There were multiple lead changes in all the races so far with all leaders even including Hulkenberg running strong yesterday obviously Hamilton back in the mix but now with Mercedes and showing their potential, very interesting in deed.. Poor Nico was drowned out by nothing but past and present champions so he was right in the middle until tires went away and BTW I haven't seen the ending yet, the replay is this afternoon for me, I just viewed some of the race and don't want to read up on the rest until I see the outcome later today.

[WarpSpeed]

Ok so watched the rest of the race today and Alonso had a bit of rare walk away but he and Ferrari earned it off of good driving and tire strategy and made it look a ton easier than it actually was..

These races these days can swing left or right at any point though, unlike past seasons and that has a tendency to glue one to the TV much more then past seasons waiting to see what will crop up next, Kudos to Mercedes & Hamilton pulling off the 3rd place podium and holding back a flying Vettel one more lap and it'd been completely different they planned it to the last lap, well done. Kimi did well too, hanging in even with a buggered nose, though he really has no one to blame for that but himself over-driving a bit, in the end I'm rooting for him to do well this season..

[John 1]

I think if we wan't to know what happened we watched it on TV do you know we have direct broadcast's in thailand.

[WarpSpeed]

Oh! Aren't you the clever one? You're certainly welcome NOT to read or respond, on the other hand if you have something of value to post we'd be happy to read it? I'm thinking not likely though...

Edited April 15, 2013 by WarpSpeed

[Loptr]

Already a F1 2013 thread going...

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/617423-f1-2013/page-7?hl=%2Bf1+%2B2013#entry6302005

[WarpSpeed]

This thread is in the motoring forum is it? More appropriate IMO for it to be here and there is no reason it couldn't be here either. Personally I avoid those other forums because the fanaticism outweighs the logic and real knowledge making it difficult to have substantive discussion and debates without all the blinding fanaticism & emotional flag waving..

When you attempt to educate people there from a more direct perspective they get all the hair standing up on the back of their neck and words fly..

[VocalNeal]

This thread is in the motoring forum is it? More appropriate IMO for it to be here and there is no reason it couldn't be here either. Personally I avoid those other forums because the fanaticism outweighs the logic and real knowledge making it difficult to have substantive discussion and debates without all the blinding fanaticism & emotional flag waving..

While I agree that the other thread seems to be more about the personalities and or people of F1 , of which I have no interest. Opinions about people are easier than opinions about technology. this is why most US Motorsports are about the drivers rather than about the technology or the teams.

If ones interest is F1 there are forums elsewhere about F1, for the techies.

[aussiebebe]

Already a F1 2013 thread going...

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/617423-f1-2013/page-7?hl=%2Bf1+%2B2013#entry6302005

Yes, but have you tried to read the posts? For someone like me who isn't into F1, seven pages into that thread the debates going on are fairly inaccessible.

Kudos to Warpspeed for trying to give board members who aren't into F1 a broad overview.

[WarpSpeed]

Regards Aussie, unfortunately it doesn't seem to be going very well so far , rather disappointing to say the least..

[WarpSpeed]

This thread is in the motoring forum is it? More appropriate IMO for it to be here and there is no reason it couldn't be here either. Personally I avoid those other forums because the fanaticism outweighs the logic and real knowledge making it difficult to have substantive discussion and debates without all the blinding fanaticism & emotional flag waving..

While I agree that the other thread seems to be more about the personalities and or people of F1 , of which I have no interest. Opinions about people are easier than opinions about technology. this is why most US Motorsports are about the drivers rather than about the technology or the teams.

If ones interest is F1 there are forums elsewhere about F1, for the techies.

Well actually most US motorsports have changed that perspective as they realized people did not really have a lot of background in the ACTUAL technology behind motorsports in general and have sought to improve and educate on those issues.. NASCAR is far more technoligical in it's reporting these days but it's not exclusive to them it flows over into all forms including F1 and the fans have taken to it quite well..

Edited April 16, 2013 by WarpSpeed

[kartman]

Regards Aussie, unfortunately it doesn't seem to be going very well so far , rather disappointing to say the least..

Are you quoting Tony Fernandez ?

[IMHO]

By forcing all teams to use two different compounds during the race, then strategically selecting those compounds to both favor and hinder each car respectively, the organisers are getting much better at mitigating the walk-away victories we've seen in some more recent seasons..

But, it was Alonso's race all the way in China IMHO - sure some others like Hulkenberg and Button lead the race for brief stints, but that's only because they hadn't pitted. The red bull's lacked pace on the mediums, but Vettel's come-back on the softs on the closing stages of the race was pretty spectacular, albeit unsuccessful. Hamilton was yet again vindicated for his team swap this season too and put in a brilliant drive in an improving but still under-competitive car, and Kimi finally started to show that he still has what it takes after his return to F1, but that personality transplant he so desperately needs still hasn't happened

The problem with keeping up with who's where these days is the massive variances in tire strategy & each cars performance on the different compounds - unless you're studying and memorising tire changes and keeping track of everyones section times, it's very difficult to truly understand the status of the race. The Soft Pauer timing app on an iPad is practically a necessity these days if you want to fully understand what's going on IMHO...

Edited April 17, 2013 by IMHO

[WarpSpeed]

Regards Aussie, unfortunately it doesn't seem to be going very well so far , rather disappointing to say the least..

Are you quoting Tony Fernandez ?

Heh, no,,,,,,,, no I wasn't actually..

[WarpSpeed]

By forcing all teams to use two different compounds during the race, then strategically selecting those compounds to both favor and hinder each car respectively, the organisers are getting much better at mitigating the walk-away victories we've seen in some more recent seasons..

But, it was Alonso's race all the way in China IMHO - sure some others like Hulkenberg and Button lead the race for brief stints, but that's only because they hadn't pitted. The red bull's lacked pace on the mediums, but Vettel's come-back on the softs on the closing stages of the race was pretty spectacular, albeit unsuccessful. Hamilton was yet again vindicated for his team swap this season too and put in a brilliant drive in an improving but still under-competitive car, and Kimi finally started to show that he still has what it takes after his return to F1, but that personality transplant he so desperately needs still hasn't happened

The problem with keeping up with who's where these days is the massive variances in tire strategy & each cars performance on the different compounds - unless you're studying and memorising tire changes and keeping track of everyones section times, it's very difficult to truly understand the status of the race. The Soft Pauer timing app on an iPad is practically a necessity these days if you want to fully understand what's going on IMHO...

Yep, good assessment IMHO, I agree completely, and most especially about Kimi's personality a dryer one I've never seen, in the super market of F1 let alone any motorsports where personalities are such an integral part it is actually quite amazing he ever got an opportunity to even prove himself..

You have to say though Hulkenberg was holding his own on older tires with Vettel on the same tires and the same distance on them. Vettel asked his team if he should go after Nico but I'm not really sure he could as shortly after Nico was opening up distance seemingly at will but for him to even be in the fight bodes well for future races hopefully.

I feel for Webber too as he has gotten the royal screwing once again, first last week being the only REAL team member and then this week his team letting him down with a supposed shortage of fuel after having already made that mistake last year with Vettel no excuse at any level let alone F1 and a top team in F1 to boot making that same mistake 2 years running. Then as he's making headway in spite of his own mistake while pushing they don't get a tire put on correctly?? He really has a premium ride though so not much choices for him at the twilight of his career.

Edited April 17, 2013 by WarpSpeed

[ignis]

F1 advanced technology, some being used now on road cars.......... sounds good, maybe even better next year with the smaller engines..

​Cannot work out what use the 2 different set of tyres would be on a road car ?............ Pit stop at all entrance to Freeways/Motorways to change tyres before using that type of road ?

​Some on F1 will have you believe that the hard tyre will last for the whole race ? so why do so many use 2 sets of hard ? soft/super soft are faster...

So why not let teams use what they want, [Dry Race] so each team have say 3 sets of super-soft and 1 hard for Race day. for the teams/drivers that manage there tyres = no pit stops, other maybe 3 or 4 pit stops for tyres.... after all we get told that the car feels/handles very different on soft to hard, so they can set up the car for the tyre they will use, or use most of the race.

Chinese Race the soft were not lasting for 1 flying lap in Qualifying on some cars

F1 are trying to cut running costs....... a set of tyres that last for 1 - 4 laps [on some cars] does not appear to be saving costs ?

[WarpSpeed]

F1 advanced technology, some being used now on road cars.......... sounds good, maybe even better next year with the smaller engines..

​Cannot work out what use the 2 different set of tyres would be on a road car ?............ Pit stop at all entrance to Freeways/Motorways to change tyres before using that type of road ?

​Some on F1 will have you believe that the hard tyre will last for the whole race ? so why do so many use 2 sets of hard ? soft/super soft are faster...

So why not let teams use what they want, [Dry Race] so each team have say 3 sets of super-soft and 1 hard for Race day. for the teams/drivers that manage there tyres = no pit stops, other maybe 3 or 4 pit stops for tyres.... after all we get told that the car feels/handles very different on soft to hard, so they can set up the car for the tyre they will use, or use most of the race.

Chinese Race the soft were not lasting for 1 flying lap in Qualifying on some cars

F1 are trying to cut running costs....... a set of tyres that last for 1 - 4 laps [on some cars] does not appear to be saving costs ?

Yeah but of course this is a way to equalize the teams and performance more. Mercedes is a good example of this, they have good performance but fall short on tire wear which is due in large part to the performance balance compromise they have yet to work out and teams like Red Bull are way ahead on but that ALL/ANY teams have to achieve to be on the top step come race day.

As for tire applications to daily drivers there is naught to be applied directly from a series like F1 except producing and testing new compounds and processes, at least where the dry compounds are concerned there is some cross over on the wet compounds in tread design and so forth but beyond that nothing else applies and they require the changes to throw strategy into the mix and prevent a Ferrari/Schumacher style of domination due to any given driver/team having an advantage due to favoritism, special deals and mysterious compounds. JFYI the preferred compound at the moment is not hard, it's intermediate or "prime", it seems a trivial matter my mentioning it and a bit pedantic but really it's not, it is a compromise between super soft and hard..

Edited April 17, 2013 by WarpSpeed

[IMHO]

F1 advanced technology, some being used now on road cars.......... sounds good, maybe even better next year with the smaller engines..

​Cannot work out what use the 2 different set of tyres would be on a road car ?............ Pit stop at all entrance to Freeways/Motorways to change tyres before using that type of road ?

​Some on F1 will have you believe that the hard tyre will last for the whole race ? so why do so many use 2 sets of hard ? soft/super soft are faster...

So why not let teams use what they want, [Dry Race] so each team have say 3 sets of super-soft and 1 hard for Race day. for the teams/drivers that manage there tyres = no pit stops, other maybe 3 or 4 pit stops for tyres.... after all we get told that the car feels/handles very different on soft to hard, so they can set up the car for the tyre they will use, or use most of the race.

Chinese Race the soft were not lasting for 1 flying lap in Qualifying on some cars

F1 are trying to cut running costs....... a set of tyres that last for 1 - 4 laps [on some cars] does not appear to be saving costs ?

Nothing about the tires in F1 is designed to be pass-down tech or even relevant to road cars, the way I see it.

The point of having the two mandatory control tires is to keep the racing more balanced, and try to mitigate having just one or two teams dominating every race due to some other technical edge (usually downforce).

The compounds Pirelli make are specifically engineered to both reward and penalise cars with both more and less downforce, and are proving to be a pretty good equalizer that doesn't specifically victimise a single team.

[ignis]

Yes can see it maybe would not work..

Was thinking more on the lines of some mid field teams that manage there tyres very well, but are 2 seconds a lap slower, with the teams using the 1 second lap faster tyres and losing 70 seconds for 3 pit stops would maybe bring more of a mix....

Of course if this did happen then the top teams would also try to run on hard only, guess that would not fix or mix the final outcome

[WarpSpeed]

Another point to ad is that the wear rate you tend to see on an F1 car is magnified and a "soft compound" on a daily driver would still be rather good wear relatively speaking when you compare an F1 tire that corners and brakes with lateral G forces up to and in excess of 3 G's briefly at times and much higher temps versus a daily driver that runs at much lower temps and only sees about .75 G's at it's hardest street driving and for much shorter periods..

Edited April 17, 2013 by WarpSpeed

[IMHO]

Another point to ad is that the wear rate you tend to see on an F1 car is magnified and a "soft compound" on a daily driver would still be rather good wear relatively speaking when you compare an F1 tire that corners and brakes with lateral G forces up to and in excess of 3 G's briefly at times and much higher temps versus a daily driver that runs at much lower temps and only sees about .75 G's at it's hardest street driving and for much shorter periods..

F1 cars routinely hit 4G+ under both braking and cornering, and up to 6G maximums for both as well. Definitely not comparable to any street car's tire stress

[WarpSpeed]

Another point to ad is that the wear rate you tend to see on an F1 car is magnified and a "soft compound" on a daily driver would still be rather good wear relatively speaking when you compare an F1 tire that corners and brakes with lateral G forces up to and in excess of 3 G's briefly at times and much higher temps versus a daily driver that runs at much lower temps and only sees about .75 G's at it's hardest street driving and for much shorter periods..

F1 cars routinely hit 4G+ under both braking and cornering, and up to 6G maximums for both as well. Definitely not comparable to any street car's tire stress

Not exactly sure if you're agreeing or not but I wanted to keep it real here IMHO and within a conceivable realistic average, those numbers are above average instances not sustained, but still definitely does compare to a street tire in some sense but like all R&D that emerges from racing it magnifies daily usage by multiples which occur in a given race instead of over years of over the road daily driver testing..

Edited April 18, 2013 by WarpSpeed

[IMHO]

Another point to ad is that the wear rate you tend to see on an F1 car is magnified and a "soft compound" on a daily driver would still be rather good wear relatively speaking when you compare an F1 tire that corners and brakes with lateral G forces up to and in excess of 3 G's briefly at times and much higher temps versus a daily driver that runs at much lower temps and only sees about .75 G's at it's hardest street driving and for much shorter periods..

F1 cars routinely hit 4G+ under both braking and cornering, and up to 6G maximums for both as well. Definitely not comparable to any street car's tire stress

Not exactly sure if you're agreeing or not but I wanted to keep it real here IMHO and within a conceivable realistic average, those numbers are above average instances not sustained, but still definitely does compare to a street tire in some sense but like all R&D that emerges from racing it magnifies daily usage by multiples which occur in a given race instead of over years of over the road daily driver testing..

Agreeing in concept yes, it's just that 3G is at the low end of the scale - 4G+ is hit at every single hard braking point and hard corner these days, and 5-6G is hit at at least one braking point/corner at most tracks..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G-eiKYyVr2A

[WarpSpeed]

Ok, so give or take a G?? Illustrating that a soft compound F1 tire that seemingly wears out rather quickly under race conditions is actually quite a durable compound were it applied to daily driver conditions.

Edited April 18, 2013 by WarpSpeed

[transam]

These are my last set of soft ''street legal'' drag race tyres. Launch my two ton dinosaur to a less than 4 second 0 - 60 mph but were shit on a damp street and lasted about 2 weeks.

[IMHO]

Ok, so give or take a G?? Illustrating that a soft compound F1 tire that seemingly wears out rather quickly under race conditions is actually quite a durable compound were it applied to daily driver conditions.

Yep, give or take just the total lateral grip of a decent road car

And yes, they are very durable - just ask any drifter how many sets of tires they bring to a race* weekend for some perspective

* Quotation fingers

[transam]

Ok, so give or take a G?? Illustrating that a soft compound F1 tire that seemingly wears out rather quickly under race conditions is actually quite a durable compound were it applied to daily driver conditions.

Naaaaaaaaaaaaaaah, shit in the rain and wore out in no time on dry stuff. Tried Hoosier, BF and Micky Thomson. Cos of the compound they had very shallow tread depth soooooooooooo if one like to tickle the pedal at the stop light drags it was expensive.

[Farma]

Currently not too far from the Bahrain track. Full cloud cover with rumbling thunder and the odd cloud lightning. Temp has been up in the high 30's including overnight although cooled down to mid 30's over the past couple of hours. Very light rain that dries on contact.

[WarpSpeed]

Ok, so give or take a G?? Illustrating that a soft compound F1 tire that seemingly wears out rather quickly under race conditions is actually quite a durable compound were it applied to daily driver conditions.

Naaaaaaaaaaaaaaah, shit in the rain and wore out in no time on dry stuff. Tried Hoosier, BF and Micky Thomson. Cos of the compound they had very shallow tread depth soooooooooooo if one like to tickle the pedal at the stop light drags it was expensive.

Ermm modern F1 tire compounds have evolved quite a bit since the days of the dinosaurs ...

[WarpSpeed]

Ok, so give or take a G?? Illustrating that a soft compound F1 tire that seemingly wears out rather quickly under race conditions is actually quite a durable compound were it applied to daily driver conditions.

Yep, give or take just the total lateral grip of a decent road car

And yes, they are very durable - just ask any drifter how many sets of tires they bring to a race* weekend for some perspective

* Quotation fingers

Drifting? Seriously? What does that have to do with daily driving?

[ignis]

Drifting? Seriously? What does that have to do with daily driving?

Lots see it everyday

Drifting has a different meaning here, appears many like to drift between lanes all the time... both slow and fast drivers

As for cornering drifting, most of the Pickups I see trying appear to hop not drift, of course they do drift into another lane at the same time