Asking "permission" From Taxi Drivers

[USNret]

I'm sure this has been discussed before, but I couldn't find it....

I get frustrated by the apparent custom in Bangkok of sticking your head in a taxi, telling the driver where you want to go, then getting his assent or "permission" before getting in.

In my bull-in-a-china-shop style, I would not do this if traveling alone. I would just get in & insist on being taken to my destination. But 99% of the time, I'm with my wife & I cannot break her of this habit. The end result, of course, is that maybe 40% of the time, the driver doesn't care to go where we're going, and he'll drive up the road a bit & pick up somebody else.

I keep explaining to my wife that a driver, on duty, has to take you where you want... failure to do so is a reportable offense. But in her non-confrontational style, this makes no impact on her. She'll say "the driver is at the end of his shift" or "he's headed home" and our destination is out of his way. My retort, of course, that as long as his red sign is on, that means he's on duty and is obligated to honor his fare.

My issue perhaps is not so much with the driver as with my wife. After trial-and-error over the years, I'm not going to push her into a confrontation with a fellow Thai; this is abhorrent to her, I've done it to her in the past & always regret it. Then she reads stories about taxi drivers shooting their passenger & she's pretty sure we'll be the next victim. I have no fears on that line whatsoever, but it's no help in dealing with female logic.

I don't think this is always a matter of the driver wanting to go a longer distance for more fare; our rides will be upward of 100 baht which I consider to be an average intra-city taxi ride. And it's not a matter of using the meter or not; they always do & this isn't an issue. I think the driver's concern might be traffic congestion, or the likelihood of getting another fare after dropping us off (normally at a mall, or at our home in an Onnut moo baan.)

Has anyone found a diplomatic way of bridging this gap between driver & the Thai wife/gf?

Edited April 16, 2013 by USNret

[ShopBoy]

I am the other way around.

My GF hops on the cab without asking and it's me that ask.

There are a couple of times we need to come out again and change cab.

[bifftastic]

I'm not going to push her into a confrontation with a fellow Thai;

Firstly, why would you want to push anyone into a confrontation with anyone, irrespective of their nationality?

Secondly, you have your own, kinda 'these are the rules, I'm gonna make people stick to them' way of getting taxis, but your wife and plenty of other people (myself included) have their own way of doing things.

Why do you want to change her behaviour? What difference would it make? If you flag a taxi down, state your destination and you get "ไม่ไป" as the response, get another one.

Relax. This is small stuff. You could, if you wanted to, turn it into big 'I know I'm right and I'm gonna prove it' stuff, but where would it get you?

It might get you to where you're going slightly quicker, but it might also get you nowhere, fast.

Why pick a fight over taxis? Hardly worth it really. Attempting to modify other people's behaviour is, in my opinion, rarely successful, contentious, argumentative, annoying, and slightly egotistical.

Many things are cultural differences, some things are just differences in the way individuals behave.

I think this is the latter.

[VocalNeal]

I always thought it was to ascertain whether the recently hired taxi driver from Isaan knows where it is that the person wishes to go Or that he has enough NGV to get there!

[Hedghog]

To check if it is convenient for the taxi driver,

To take you to your desired location.

[DP25]

Sorry, I agree with your wife. There are tens of thousands of taxis in this city, why force someone to go somewhere they don't want to go. All the farang I hear constantly moaning about taxi problems in Thailand all do it like you do. Just barge in to someone's taxi and start treating them like a servant rather than a partner. It's just considered rude here, regardless if the law says they have to take all customers, and if you act rude to them they will do the same in return. It also marks you out as a newbie and they are more likely to try taxi scams on you, as long term farang usually don't do this. Besides being polite it is for your own benefit to ask first

[USNret]

To check if it is convenient for the taxi driver, To take you to your desired location.

See, that's the thing. I mostly don't care if it's convenient to them. They are working; this is their job. It's like going to a restaurant and checking with the cook if it's convenient to cook your preferred menu selection. Nobody would do that.

I'm not going to push her into a confrontation with a fellow Thai;

Firstly, why would you want to push anyone into a confrontation with anyone, irrespective of their nationality?

Secondly, you have your own, kinda 'these are the rules, I'm gonna make people stick to them' way of getting taxis, but your wife and plenty of other people (myself included) have their own way of doing things.

Relax. This is small stuff. You could, if you wanted to, turn it into big 'I know I'm right and I'm gonna prove it' stuff, but where would it get you?

It might get you to where you're going slightly quicker, but it might also get you nowhere, fast.

Why pick a fight over taxis? Hardly worth it really. Attempting to modify other people's behaviour is, in my opinion, rarely successful, contentious, argumentative, annoying, and slightly egotistical.

Many things are cultural differences, some things are just differences in the way individuals behave.

I think this is the latter.

I mostly agree with your assessment. Here's an example of where, regrettably, I pushed my wife into a confrontation with the girl at True TV. We went in to cancel our service; I knew we would have to pay 1 extra month of service since we'd missed the cut-off date to cancel for the current month. Then the girl says we'll have to pay for TWO months of service, for reasons unknown. I knew this was wrong, but she was intransigent after talking it over nicely. I told my wife to translate: "We've checked the website, we understand the rules, we know we have to pay 1 extra month, but not two months." My wife was reluctant to translate, but she did.

In the end, we got what we came for and paid only one month, but the True lady was embarrassed (wouldn't come out of the back room) and my wife was p.o.'d at me. If felt like I was the victim here (in the right, but nobody cared). After that, I truly understood winning the battle but losing the war; it's generally not worth it.

As far as being "contentious, argumentative, annoying, and slightly egotistical" these are latent qualities in my persona that I constantly struggle with. You have diagnosed me well. In past lives (military officer & corporate manager) these traits served me well, but I try to put these attributes behind me in the spirit of mai bpen rai. Still, they are hard habits to break.

I also agree this is small stuff and I try to relax, but when it's rush hour, everyone's trying to flag a taxi, rain is coming (after which getting a cab will be impossible) and in a 20-minute period 3 taxis have declined my particular destination, that's about the time I run out of patience. So yeah, chalk this up to my personality flaw; fair enough. But still, at that point I'm not in the mood to ask the driver if it's convenient. He's on duty and I need a ride; it's a simple equation.

Edited April 16, 2013 by USNret

[bifftastic]

I agree completely with you that it's very problematic to try and get your partner or wife to take your stance for you, especially when, if they were alone, they would make a different choice.

I recently had a similar experience. I had lost my Bangkok Bank passbook. We went into the bank and were told that we needed a police report in order to get another one. Ok, no problem, the police station is just down the road, off we went.

My wife took the lead, the police officers spoke to her first anyway (where we are there aren't many foreigners so they're not used to us) she told them it had been lost in Chiang Rai city. They then told us to go there to report it. She just said "ok" told me we can't get the report, and we left.

I wasn't best pleased, as you can imagine.

Instead of arguing with my wife, I went back on my own the next day, found a different officer, spoke to him in Thai (not great Thai, but Thai ) When he asked me where I had lost the book, I said I didn't know (thankfully, parsing the phrase "If I knew where I lost it, it wouldn't be lost!" wasn't at the front of my mind!) and he duly filled out the form for me.

I have concluded that asking my wife to represent my own views is problematic in three ways. Firstly, she might not fully understand why I hold those views, why I care so much about whatever the 'problem' is. Secondly, if I put her in the position of trying to say "My husband thinks...." she leaves herself open to a response such as "Well, your husband is wrong/an idiot/doesn't understand how things work here"

Thirdly, and to me most importantly, brings the conflict that was previously between me and whatever outside issue/agency/system, inside my marriage.

That's not good, at all.

There are many attributes that serve people well throughout their lives. A knowledge of how things should be, and how to make them happen that way is most definitely one of them. Once work is over, however, even if it's just stepping out of the office never mind retirement, it is useful to remember that the next set of people you encounter don't work for you. Its true that a taxi driver potentially works for you, but not until he's ready to accept the job.

However, if it's chucking it down with rain, I'm getting in the taxi too!

But if my wife isn't prepared to take on the negotiation, pointing out that he is absolutely putting the meter on and taking us where we're going, I'll do it myself. Thai language skills are very useful in these situations. English doesn't have the same ability to be forcefully abrupt, yet polite. It's still possible to do in English though it perhaps takes more effort, especially if the person you're speaking to has English as their second (or third) language (they can often only notice that the volume has increased and the face is now frowning) in which case a lot of the nuances of what you are saying are completely lost.

I know it's hard to put aside what you referred to as 'flaws'. I don't think they're flaws necessarily, it's just how your life has shaped you. I also don't think you would be best served by seeing it as some kind of sacrifice that you have to make because you're in Thailand.

I would suggest just try taking the lead a bit more, not allowing the situation to develop into one that makes you angry (angry is bad for you, wherever you live) and involve your wife slightly less in these matters. Then the stuff that should be small stuff might actually start to get smaller.

Not so much 'mai bpen rai' (because some things actually are 'bpen rai') but maybe a little more 'jai yen yen' but standing your ground.

[Boo]

I'm from London & we always advise the driver where we want to go before getting in. Alot of them wont go a certain route because it is not cost effective for them. Asking a driver if they will take you is good manners, they are under no obligation to do so.

[AnotherOneAmerican]

Has anyone found a diplomatic way of bridging this gap between driver & the Thai wife/gf?

As "the man" in Thailand interacting with such people is your job, not hers.

You speak with the driver, she stands quietly in the background.

She shouldn't be speaking with the driver when out with you, and she knows it.

[theoldgit]

Sorry Boo but a proper London Taxi, with their yellow light on, is legally obliged to take you anywhere up to twelve miles, 20 if you hail a cab from Heathrow, even "south of the river".

That said, I agree that it's polite to state your destination and if the driver really didn't want to go there, and had good reason, I wouldn't make an issue of it.

I have never ever had a London cabbie refuse a fare.

Sent from my iPhone using ThaiVisa app

[Boo]

Try getting one to take you south of the river after 10pm, esp if the drive lives in Essex

[theoldgit]

"Don't go sarf of the river gov"

Sent from my iPhone using ThaiVisa app

[isawasnake]

I think this rule about drivers being compelled to take you, no matter your destination, has gotten blown out of proportion. It may be technically true, but it is also illegal to have anal sex with your wife in parts of the US. Effectively, this is NOT a law. I think foreigners just need to forget it; they will all be better off. I gear this line of complaint far too often.

[mogandave]

To check if it is convenient for the taxi driver, To take you to your desired location.

See, that's the thing. I mostly don't care if it's convenient to them. They are working; this is their job. It's like going to a restaurant and checking with the cook if it's convenient to cook your preferred menu selection. Nobody would do that.

>

I'm not going to push her into a confrontation with a fellow Thai;

Firstly, why would you want to push anyone into a confrontation with anyone, irrespective of their nationality?

Secondly, you have your own, kinda 'these are the rules, I'm gonna make people stick to them' way of getting taxis, but your wife and plenty of other people (myself included) have their own way of doing things.

Relax. This is small stuff. You could, if you wanted to, turn it into big 'I know I'm right and I'm gonna prove it' stuff, but where would it get you?

It might get you to where you're going slightly quicker, but it might also get you nowhere, fast.

Why pick a fight over taxis? Hardly worth it really. Attempting to modify other people's behaviour is, in my opinion, rarely successful, contentious, argumentative, annoying, and slightly egotistical.

Many things are cultural differences, some things are just differences in the way individuals behave.

I think this is the latter.

I mostly agree with your assessment. Here's an example of where, regrettably, I pushed my wife into a confrontation with the girl at True TV. We went in to cancel our service; I knew we would have to pay 1 extra month of service since we'd missed the cut-off date to cancel for the current month. Then the girl says we'll have to pay for TWO months of service, for reasons unknown. I knew this was wrong, but she was intransigent after talking it over nicely. I told my wife to translate: "We've checked the website, we understand the rules, we know we have to pay 1 extra month, but not two months." My wife was reluctant to translate, but she did.

In the end, we got what we came for and paid only one month, but the True lady was embarrassed (wouldn't come out of the back room) and my wife was p.o.'d at me. If felt like I was the victim here (in the right, but nobody cared). After that, I truly understood winning the battle but losing the war; it's generally not worth it.

As far as being "contentious, argumentative, annoying, and slightly egotistical" these are latent qualities in my persona that I constantly struggle with. You have diagnosed me well. In past lives (military officer & corporate manager) these traits served me well, but I try to put these attributes behind me in the spirit of mai bpen rai. Still, they are hard habits to break.

I also agree this is small stuff and I try to relax, but when it's rush hour, everyone's trying to flag a taxi, rain is coming (after which getting a cab will be impossible) and in a 20-minute period 3 taxis have declined my particular destination, that's about the time I run out of patience. So yeah, chalk this up to my personality flaw; fair enough. But still, at that point I'm not in the mood to ask the driver if it's convenient. He's on duty and I need a ride; it's a simple equation.

It the cook told you he did not want to cook the fish today you would still order it?

What I don't get, is when they are already sitting in traffic, already going the same way you're going and don't want to take you ten-blocks. You get in the next cab and follow them past where you wanted to go.

I think they make more on short fares then long ones, but I think more often then not they don't take you just to show they don't have to. It bugs a little but f-it.

[N47HAN]

Really is the OP for real !!!

IT IS NOT THEIR DUTY to take you anywhere my friend..

Its up to them if they want to take you !

Ask a tuk tuk hell take you anywhere you want to fo and i hope you get ripped off

God its people like you that cause problems for the rest of us.

Get if your high horse and relax

[USNret]

What I don't get, is when they are already sitting in traffic, already going the same way you're going and don't want to take you ten-blocks. You get in the next cab and follow them past where you wanted to go.

I think they make more on short fares then long ones, but I think more often then not they don't take you just to show they don't have to. It bugs a little but f-it.

My wife & I generally don't take "short" cab rides; we prefer to walk. I"d say 100 baht fare is about average for us which is a good 20-30 minutes drive. But the funny thing is, you are correct... a series of shorter trips would be more profitable for the driver than one long one due to flag drop. But try teaching higher math to a cab driver, much less teach them driving skills.

[N47HAN]

Edit. Spelling errors . Was typing too quick . As op managed to @#$@! me off so much

[USNret]

op managed to @#$@! me off so much

lol, good. That's really what this topic was all about.

[ricklev]

I really don't mind asking if they can take me to a destination. What pisses me off is when I ask politely in Thai and they respond by just driving off or speaking rudely or making a rude dismissive gesture or just being a <deleted> in some bizarre way. That probably happens 20 percent of the time to me as I have to take taxis to and from an inconvenient location a few times a week . A simple mai dai khap is all that is required, but it seems to be beyond their social abilities. Of course what I think is impolite seems not even to phase the Thais, so its pretty much entirely my problem!

[USNret]

Of course what I think is impolite seems not even to phase the Thais, so its pretty much entirely my problem!

I think it is because average Thai people are used to being abused by people in "authority". In this context, the taxi driver is the person in authority and people just accept it. Maybe a better to way to say it is they have come to accept p-poor customer service. Either way, I agree with you; it rubs me the wrong way.

[N47HAN]

;

Get me the "taxi" out a this thread

[mogandave]

In all fairness to the cabbies, driving in Bangkok wears one down. I can't imagine the rudeness they probably deal with every day for next to nothing.

How long has it been 35 baht anyway? I think (not sure) I remember when it was 30, but that had
to have been 10 years ago.

[saakura]

In all fairness to the cabbies, driving in Bangkok wears one down. I can't imagine the rudeness they probably deal with every day for next to nothing.

How long has it been 35 baht anyway? I think (not sure) I remember when it was 30, but that had

to have been 10 years ago.

Yes, its been 35 for a long, very long time. Except that it used to be 35 for the first 3kms but now it is 35 for the (probably) first 500mtrs!! Is that too difficult to understand?? Talk about taxi drivers not able to do maths.

[GooEng]

i had heard that there was some sort of regulation now that BKK taxis were obliged to take you to your destination and on the meter and that you could report them if they didn't.

regardless, i always ask and am prepared to let be on his way if he refuses unless i am really in a hurry and taxis are thin on the ground in which case i get in, sit down and close the door before announcing where i want to go as they are less inclined to fob you off once you're seated. if he objects then, i am always open to either negotiating an off meter flat rate or to getting out and let him go.

[mr.buffalo]

To check if it is convenient for the taxi driver, To take you to your desired location.

See, that's the thing. I mostly don't care if it's convenient to them. They are working; this is their job. It's like going to a restaurant and checking with the cook if it's convenient to cook your preferred menu selection. Nobody would do that.

>

I'm not going to push her into a confrontation with a fellow Thai;

Firstly, why would you want to push anyone into a confrontation with anyone, irrespective of their nationality?

Secondly, you have your own, kinda 'these are the rules, I'm gonna make people stick to them' way of getting taxis, but your wife and plenty of other people (myself included) have their own way of doing things.

Relax. This is small stuff. You could, if you wanted to, turn it into big 'I know I'm right and I'm gonna prove it' stuff, but where would it get you?

It might get you to where you're going slightly quicker, but it might also get you nowhere, fast.

Why pick a fight over taxis? Hardly worth it really. Attempting to modify other people's behaviour is, in my opinion, rarely successful, contentious, argumentative, annoying, and slightly egotistical.

Many things are cultural differences, some things are just differences in the way individuals behave.

I think this is the latter.

I mostly agree with your assessment. Here's an example of where, regrettably, I pushed my wife into a confrontation with the girl at True TV. We went in to cancel our service; I knew we would have to pay 1 extra month of service since we'd missed the cut-off date to cancel for the current month. Then the girl says we'll have to pay for TWO months of service, for reasons unknown. I knew this was wrong, but she was intransigent after talking it over nicely. I told my wife to translate: "We've checked the website, we understand the rules, we know we have to pay 1 extra month, but not two months." My wife was reluctant to translate, but she did.

In the end, we got what we came for and paid only one month, but the True lady was embarrassed (wouldn't come out of the back room) and my wife was p.o.'d at me. If felt like I was the victim here (in the right, but nobody cared). After that, I truly understood winning the battle but losing the war; it's generally not worth it.

As far as being "contentious, argumentative, annoying, and slightly egotistical" these are latent qualities in my persona that I constantly struggle with. You have diagnosed me well. In past lives (military officer & corporate manager) these traits served me well, but I try to put these attributes behind me in the spirit of mai bpen rai. Still, they are hard habits to break.

.

Reading your account of the way you treated a probably 45kg shop assistant and and reffering it to a ' battle '

( how childish ) and then seeing you were a great military hero and manager I personally think you are an out and out bully and hope one day a taxi driver gives you a slap.

[HardenedSoul]

I mostly agree with your assessment. Here's an example of where, regrettably, I pushed my wife into a confrontation with the girl at True TV. We went in to cancel our service; I knew we would have to pay 1 extra month of service since we'd missed the cut-off date to cancel for the current month. Then the girl says we'll have to pay for TWO months of service, for reasons unknown. I knew this was wrong, but she was intransigent after talking it over nicely. I told my wife to translate: "We've checked the website, we understand the rules, we know we have to pay 1 extra month, but not two months." My wife was reluctant to translate, but she did.

In the end, we got what we came for and paid only one month, but the True lady was embarrassed (wouldn't come out of the back room) and my wife was p.o.'d at me. If felt like I was the victim here (in the right, but nobody cared). After that, I truly understood winning the battle but losing the war; it's generally not worth it.

As far as being "contentious, argumentative, annoying, and slightly egotistical" these are latent qualities in my persona that I constantly struggle with. You have diagnosed me well. In past lives (military officer & corporate manager) these traits served me well, but I try to put these attributes behind me in the spirit of mai bpen rai. Still, they are hard habits to break.

I also agree this is small stuff and I try to relax, but when it's rush hour, everyone's trying to flag a taxi, rain is coming (after which getting a cab will be impossible) and in a 20-minute period 3 taxis have declined my particular destination, that's about the time I run out of patience. So yeah, chalk this up to my personality flaw; fair enough. But still, at that point I'm not in the mood to ask the driver if it's convenient. He's on duty and I need a ride; it's a simple equation.

The True TV situation is completely different to the taxi matter.

You were 100% right to question the extra month's charge so no need to feel like the victim. You can't let people take the piss. If the girl was embarrassed as a result, tough shit.

The taxi situation could just get you into an argument and possible physical confrontation with a cabbie.

Not a good idea and best to just stand down.

[corkythecat]

This is why Khun Keree should be "sainted".NEVER go anywhere that is not on the BTS.

[HardenedSoul]

Reading your account of the way you treated a probably 45kg shop assistant and and reffering it to a ' battle '

( how childish ) and then seeing you were a great military hero and manager I personally think you are an out and out bully and hope one day a taxi driver gives you a slap.

Oh here we go. What would you have done? Let them fleece an extra month's subscription out of you for no reason?

If the girl didn't know the appropriate charage, that's her problem, not the OP's.

There are times to let things slide but this wasn't one of them.

[USNret]

Reading your account of the way you treated a probably 45kg shop assistant and and reffering it to a ' battle '

( how childish ) and then seeing you were a great military hero and manager I personally think you are an out and out bully and hope one day a taxi driver gives you a slap.

My quote of "winning the battle but losing the war" is a common idiom in the English language. It simply means that small gains in the short run are often not worth it in the bigger picture. I'll try to use simpler language for you in my future posts.

Trust me, I am no hero and make no claims to that effect. But it is true that in many Western cultural settings (perhaps most notably in America) an assertive, don't-back-down style is an asset. I can say without qualification that this is true in the Navy and in many corporate cultures (another idiom). If you read my initial post carefully, you will see that (1) I recognize that these qualities are not appropriate in many settings, especially not in Thailand and (2) It is something I try to overcome. At least give me some points for self-awareness and trying to improve myself.