Change In Proof Of Marriage Requirement

[ubonrthai]

I just applied for my 4th one year non-immigrant O extension based on marriage to a Thai citizen. We were married in the US, came to Thailand, got the คร22 so that we could change my wife's name on all her Thai documents and have used the คร22 as proof of marriage for the last 3 extensions. I went in for my 4th extension and they asked if I had an original marriage certificate from America. I said no and they proceeded to tell me that I need an original, a translation and that the translation needs certified by Foreign Affairs. The officer in charge of the room overheard and "clarified." She said I don't need a translation. I need to go to the US Embassy and have our original marriage certificate from America "certified." This doesn't make any sense to me. I told them I have a copy but don't have an original marriage certificate here anymore (I should) and they suggested I fly back to America to get one. We continued to question them. Then they called to their superior in Korat where they send these applications and they said they would make a one time exception for my case. Phew! The คร22 is good enough for this year.

I still don't understand what is required. My wife and I are both confused. 2 months ago they gave me a list of requirements and then today they showed me a new list. What is required on #3 of the 2nd section?

We have a son together who is a Thai citizen. If I don't get back to America to get an original marriage license before next year, can I just apply for a visa based on being the father of a Thai citizen or are they still going to want these marriage docs?

Thank you.

Edited April 18, 2013 by ubonrthai

[lopburi3]

Didn't you take this and a translation to the District Office you obtained the KR22 from? Suspect you could just visit them to make a copy and that it would be accepted? It sounds as if they were quoting what you have to provide District Office (including the translation) but then remembered if in English immigration does not require a translation. The marriage certificate is a standard requirement for Thai wife extensions of stay.

[ubonrthai]

I'm sure I did 4 years ago. The KR22 is from Chiang Mai district office when we lived there. I have 2 KR22 originals from that office which I brought with me today. I've been reporting to Phibun the last 3 years.

Edited April 18, 2013 by ubonrthai

[Mario2008]

What immigration wants to see is your original marriage certificate from the US and that you have it certified by the embassy and next certified by the Thai Foreign Ministry. As the document will be in English you don't have to translate it into Thai, although the Thai Foreign Ministry might require it.

As Lopburi3 said, you will have done this already to et the KR22 form, so the amphur might have copies of the documents. You can ask the amphur in CM for a copy and ask them to certify it with the amphur stamp. That should do the trick. Otherwise you have to get a new document from your embassy.

[Maestro]

For a foreigner married in Thailand the immigration wants to see the original marriage certificate KR.3 (the Mickey Mouse certificate) and the KR. 2 (the ledger from the district office's marriage ledger. For the OP, married outside Thailand the immigration office seems to want see the analogous documents, which are the original marriage certificate and the KR.22.

I wonder, what if I, married in Thailand, lost my original KR.3 and my wife lost hers, would immigration refuse me a marriage extension? The district office will not issue a new original.

[ubonjoe]

It is not possible to get any document certified at the US embassy. That has to be done through the State Department in DC.

Authentication of Vital Records, Academic, Commercial or Other Credentials Issued in the U.S.

U.S. Consular officers are not empowered to authenticate public documents issued in the United States. Such documents include vital records (birth, marriage, death, and divorce), as well as academic, commercial, or other credentials. Consular officers do not have access to the records of the issuing office or the seal of the custodian of these records.

For more information on Procedures for Authentication and Legalizing Official Documents Issued in the United States.

For more information on Authentication of Documents, Apostilles, or Copies of Birth, Death, Marriage, or Divorce Records, please consult the Department of State Travel site.

Source: http://bangkok.usembassy.gov/service/notarial-services.html

Only a certified copy is possible which many place will accept.

You should be able to get a certified copy from the county or city where you got married either online or by mail.

You cannot get an extension for having a Thai child if you are married.

[haroldc]

It is not possible to get any document certified at the US embassy. That has to be done through the State Department in DC.

Authentication of Vital Records, Academic, Commercial or Other Credentials Issued in the U.S.

U.S. Consular officers are not empowered to authenticate public documents issued in the United States. Such documents include vital records (birth, marriage, death, and divorce), as well as academic, commercial, or other credentials. Consular officers do not have access to the records of the issuing office or the seal of the custodian of these records.

For more information on Procedures for Authentication and Legalizing Official Documents Issued in the United States.

For more information on Authentication of Documents, Apostilles, or Copies of Birth, Death, Marriage, or Divorce Records, please consult the Department of State Travel site.

Source: http://bangkok.usembassy.gov/service/notarial-services.html

Only a certified copy is possible which many place will accept.

You should be able to get a certified copy from the county or city where you got married either online or by mail.

You cannot get an extension for having a Thai child if you are married.

"You cannot get an extension for having a Thai child if you are married." -- Not correct, I am married and have been getting 1-year Non-immigrant "O" visas on the basis of supporting my children for more than 15 years.

[lopburi3]

One flame removed.

[Beetlejuice]

These rules have not changed.

This has always applied, since as far back as I can remember. And I would like to ask the OP, why does he not have his original marriage certificate?

[BobHG46]

Why not get married in Thailand? Then you'd have no problem. There are a few hoops to jump through, but nothing insurmountable. You will probably need a form of permission to get married, your passport, her ID card and then go and see the registrar at your local Amphur. Your local registrar would also be able to advise you which documents you need.

[realenglish1]

Here is a good suggestion so you don't have to fly back to the States and save a lot of money Just get married here in Thailand then you have all the docs you need and no problems about which document and what translations you need

Its that simple

[asiaexpat]

Most US states department of vital statistics (records office) will send a certified copy of a persons marriage license registration (usually a photocopy of the original marriage certificate with a state seal or stamp.) This can be done over the net in many cases.

[lopburi3]

He is married - he can not get married in Thailand until/unless he has a divorce.

[asiaexpat]

For a foreigner married in Thailand the immigration wants to see the original marriage certificate KR.3 (the Mickey Mouse certificate) and the KR. 2 (the ledger from the district office's marriage ledger. For the OP, married outside Thailand the immigration office seems to want see the analogous documents, which are the original marriage certificate and the KR.22.

I wonder, what if I, married in Thailand, lost my original KR.3 and my wife lost hers, would immigration refuse me a marriage extension? The district office will not issue a new original.

I also wonder, I asked the Ket for a copy of our Thai marriage certificate (KR 3) and was told it is not possible. Anyone have any experience with this?

[Mario2008]

The K.R. 2 should be enough, it is even better proof as it shows that you are still married while a marriage certificate only shows that you got married.

[ubonrthai]

This is a change in Phibun for sure. Not sure about other places.

Found an original today. Just haven't needed one in several years so was buried. Don't need it this year since they are giving an "exception" this year.

Hindsight it would have been easier document wise to get married in Thailand but since we were in the US...

[ubonrthai]

What's KR2?

[lopburi3]

Ledger entry of marriage for those married in Thailand.

[comserve]

Why not go to your Ampour & marry again. If they want proof that you are eligible to marry just show your current marriage certificate!!

[bangkokburning]

Assuming your certificate is locked up somewhere, can't someone get a copy from the state registrar and just send it to you?

[lopburi3]

Why not go to your Ampour & marry again. If they want proof that you are eligible to marry just show your current marriage certificate!!

He can not marry if he is already married - you have to have Embassy paperwork of not being married.

[djvolak]

I will be in the US for a few days at the end of the month of April. If you have someone in the states who can get the original to me I can hand carry it to you when I come on the 1st of May. Not sure if you have anybody in the US with access to it but it is a thought. I will be stateside April then a few days in May and July. I live in Nonthaburi so you would have to meet me in Bangkok or something but I am back and forth regularly. I do my Visa's on this end in New Orleans. Regards, Dave.

[lopburi3]

Per post 16 he found his original.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/633633-change-in-proof-of-marriage-requirement/?p=6318425#entry6318425

[meatboy]

if your over 50 why not go the retirement route problem solved.

[NanLaew]

Why not go to your Ampour & marry again. If they want proof that you are eligible to marry just show your current marriage certificate!!

He can not marry if he is already married - you have to have Embassy paperwork of not being married.

As my American buddy and Thai wife (married late last year in Panama) found out when they went to the Banglamong Amphur the day after the local Thai wedding ceremony to register their marriage in Thailand. My buddy spent a whole day dutifully sitting beside his wife who adamantly refused to see that she was getting her cart seriously before the horse. Eventually she accepted that the original Panamanian marriage certificates needed to be certified before being officially translated before being chopped by MFA. Only after doing that circle-jerk can they return to the same Amphur, get a totally different paper-shuffler and sit and sweat for another day while the desk jockeys fudge around the fact that they haven't a bloody clue and are too worried about loss of face to ask for advice from their similarly clueless superiors.

[ubonjoe]

It is not possible to get any document certified at the US embassy. That has to be done through the State Department in DC.

Authentication of Vital Records, Academic, Commercial or Other Credentials Issued in the U.S.

U.S. Consular officers are not empowered to authenticate public documents issued in the United States. Such documents include vital records (birth, marriage, death, and divorce), as well as academic, commercial, or other credentials. Consular officers do not have access to the records of the issuing office or the seal of the custodian of these records.

For more information on Procedures for Authentication and Legalizing Official Documents Issued in the United States.

For more information on Authentication of Documents, Apostilles, or Copies of Birth, Death, Marriage, or Divorce Records, please consult the Department of State Travel site.

Source: http://bangkok.usembassy.gov/service/notarial-services.html

Only a certified copy is possible which many place will accept.

You should be able to get a certified copy from the county or city where you got married either online or by mail.

You cannot get an extension for having a Thai child if you are married.

"You cannot get an extension for having a Thai child if you are married." -- Not correct, I am married and have been getting 1-year Non-immigrant "O" visas on the basis of supporting my children for more than 15 years.

A visa yes but not an extension of stay.

There have been many reports that immigration has refused an application for an extension based upon having a Thai child when they are married to the mother of the child. The rules in the police order are written to be for a single parent.

[ubonjoe]

if your over 50 why not go the retirement route problem solved.

Why should he and have to show twice the money in the bank or an income of 25K baht more per month.

Also OP like myself is living here to be with his family not for retirement.

[Ken]

It is not possible to get any document certified at the US embassy. That has to be done through the State Department in DC.

Authentication of Vital Records, Academic, Commercial or Other Credentials Issued in the U.S.

U.S. Consular officers are not empowered to authenticate public documents issued in the United States. Such documents include vital records (birth, marriage, death, and divorce), as well as academic, commercial, or other credentials. Consular officers do not have access to the records of the issuing office or the seal of the custodian of these records.

For more information on Procedures for Authentication and Legalizing Official Documents Issued in the United States.

For more information on Authentication of Documents, Apostilles, or Copies of Birth, Death, Marriage, or Divorce Records, please consult the Department of State Travel site.

Source: http://bangkok.usembassy.gov/service/notarial-services.html

Only a certified copy is possible which many place will accept.

You should be able to get a certified copy from the county or city where you got married either online or by mail.

You cannot get an extension for having a Thai child if you are married.

"You cannot get an extension for having a Thai child if you are married." -- Not correct, I am married and have been getting 1-year Non-immigrant "O" visas on the basis of supporting my children for more than 15 years.

A visa yes but not an extension of stay.

There have been many reports that immigration has refused an application for an extension based upon having a Thai child when they are married to the mother of the child. The rules in the police order are written to be for a single parent.

I know an English guy in Korat who is married to a Thai and they have a son. He has received his extension from Korat Immigration for several years, based solely on being the father of the child.

[ubonjoe]

Perhaps they are allowing it because he was getting his extensions that way before they changed the rules in 2008. Before they changed the rules it was possible to get an extension for having a Thai child with no financial proof.

[haroldc]

It is not possible to get any document certified at the US embassy. That has to be done through the State Department in DC.

Authentication of Vital Records, Academic, Commercial or Other Credentials Issued in the U.S.

U.S. Consular officers are not empowered to authenticate public documents issued in the United States. Such documents include vital records (birth, marriage, death, and divorce), as well as academic, commercial, or other credentials. Consular officers do not have access to the records of the issuing office or the seal of the custodian of these records.

For more information on Procedures for Authentication and Legalizing Official Documents Issued in the United States.

For more information on Authentication of Documents, Apostilles, or Copies of Birth, Death, Marriage, or Divorce Records, please consult the Department of State Travel site.

Source: http://bangkok.usembassy.gov/service/notarial-services.html

Only a certified copy is possible which many place will accept.

You should be able to get a certified copy from the county or city where you got married either online or by mail.

You cannot get an extension for having a Thai child if you are married.

"You cannot get an extension for having a Thai child if you are married." -- Not correct, I am married and have been getting 1-year Non-immigrant "O" visas on the basis of supporting my children for more than 15 years.

A visa yes but not an extension of stay.

There have been many reports that immigration has refused an application for an extension based upon having a Thai child when they are married to the mother of the child. The rules in the police order are written to be for a single parent.

I used the wrong term. I have been getting 1-year Non-immigrant "O" visa extensions on the basis of supporting my children for more than 15 years. I go to Bangkok Immigration once a year with my wife and children to extend the visa. I don't even remember the last time that I applied for a visa -- it was on my previous passport and Immigration only copied the permission to stay information into my new one.

A few times the immigration officer has suggested that I apply for the extension on the basis of being married because I wouldn't have to bring my children along. I just tell the officer that I prefer to do it this way, and there has never been a problem. Maybe I've been lucky?

I read Thai fluently and the rules regarding applying for an extension on the basis of supporting a Thai national child or children make no mention of applying only to single parents.

Edited April 20, 2013 by haroldc