Liverpool F.c.

[Abrak]

I reckon there will (or, even that there IS) a bit of a power struggle going on between Dalglish, Comolli, and, to a degree between Kenny and the board.

On the basis of "this town aint big enough for the both of us"

Perhaps thats why they havent offered him a permenent contract yet?

It could even be that, while they say all the right things about "We are very pleased with the work of the manager" and other such soundbites, perhaps they dont think its good ENOUGH to suit their long term plans.

Certainly interesting times ahead, thats for sure.

Penkoprod

You could well be right in that there are many managers who arent comfortable with a DOF(s) on the basis 'that there isnt enough room for the two of us.' However, it is perfectly possible that KD likes it this way. He is a manager (who essentially 'manages' resources) rather than allocates them. I suspect that he is fairly happy to 'not' being held responsible for the purchase of Caroll and he is perfectly prepared to accept that the purchase of Suarez is not something he should get the credit for either way.

It is fairly obvious that FSG believe in a 'team of managers' 'working together' so that their management team is not dependent on one person ( a bit like having a team of footballers not being dependent on one player.) The idea being that if 'one member of the team moves on' then the club can still move fairly seamlessly forward. I see KD as very much a team player - the guy who wants a 'coach' to 'coach'. The same must applies to Comolli - if he is DOF and believes in signing players that the manager doesnt want - then he is simply not doing his job (he was accused of this when he was at Spurs.)

Personally I suspect that KD is someone who is perfectly happy to work with other people. I think the best legacy he can leave the club is that when he retires, the club can move on seamlessly without him. I dont think KD is obsessed with doing things 'his' way, more the 'Liverpool Way' and I think that involves 'teamwork'. It is very clear this is part of FSG's strategy to have a 'team' together that can show 'continuity of philosophy' (their words) rather than relying on one single guy. There are clearly Managers like Mourinho who would never be prepared to work under this framework (maybe SAF is another) but then what happens when they move on. The good news for a 'teamwork' philosophy is that when things dont go well (like overpaying for mediocre players) responsibility as well as credit is shared. I dont think that FSG are going to change their strategy so that if you are right and KD wants 'total control' or 'no control' then he shouldnt sign up for a permanent position and FSG would be unwise to appoint him. FSG have been 'slow' but very 'surefooted' in how they have gone about things.

So I believe if KD is involved in some 'power game' whereby his appointment is based on his 'unquestioned authority' then he has already lost because FSG have made it pretty clear that they take on 'responsibility' with their own 'authority'. I would hate KD to take on this role for the wrong reasons.

[mrbojangles]

Statistically though Man City have been incredibly clever to spend so much money on their team and to perform so badly. It almost seems like they have confused correlation with causality.

Give over you numpty. The target is and always has been, to finish in the top 4 this season. Currently, we are right on track.

Go and find some statistics about teams who have changed as dramatically as us and how quick it takes them to gel. Most teams buy one player and it takes him months and months to fit in.

[Penkoprod]

You could well be right in that there are many managers who arent comfortable with a DOF(s) on the basis 'that there isnt enough room for the two of us.' However, it is perfectly possible that KD likes it this way. He is a manager (who essentially 'manages' resources) rather than allocates them. I suspect that he is fairly happy to 'not' being held responsible for the purchase of Caroll and he is perfectly prepared to accept that the purchase of Suarez is not something he should get the credit for either way.

It is fairly obvious that FSG believe in a 'team of managers' 'working together' so that their management team is not dependent on one person ( a bit like having a team of footballers not being dependent on one player.) The idea being that if 'one member of the team moves on' then the club can still move fairly seamlessly forward. I see KD as very much a team player - the guy who wants a 'coach' to 'coach'. The same must applies to Comolli - if he is DOF and believes in signing players that the manager doesnt want - then he is simply not doing his job (he was accused of this when he was at Spurs.)

Personally I suspect that KD is someone who is perfectly happy to work with other people. I think the best legacy he can leave the club is that when he retires, the club can move on seamlessly without him. I dont think KD is obsessed with doing things 'his' way, more the 'Liverpool Way' and I think that involves 'teamwork'. It is very clear this is part of FSG's strategy to have a 'team' together that can show 'continuity of philosophy' (their words) rather than relying on one single guy. There are clearly Managers like Mourinho who would never be prepared to work under this framework (maybe SAF is another) but then what happens when they move on. The good news for a 'teamwork' philosophy is that when things dont go well (like overpaying for mediocre players) responsibility as well as credit is shared. I dont think that FSG are going to change their strategy so that if you are right and KD wants 'total control' or 'no control' then he shouldnt sign up for a permanent position and FSG would be unwise to appoint him. FSG have been 'slow' but very 'surefooted' in how they have gone about things.

So I believe if KD is involved in some 'power game' whereby his appointment is based on his 'unquestioned authority' then he has already lost because FSG have made it pretty clear that they take on 'responsibility' with their own 'authority'. I would hate KD to take on this role for the wrong reasons.

Well, i suppose we have to ask "where is Dalglish's contract, then?"

Commoli has had HIS role enforced and expanded, and i cant honestly see Kenny being just a figurehead.

He might want to save face by accepting a shorter than originally wanted contract, and then be moved back "upstairs"

In fact, i wouldnt be suprised if we didnt see someone else brought in (possibly someone like Deschamps, for example)to "manage" what Comolli's brief doesn't encompass

Reading the newspapers, most of them say Commolli's roles will include overseeing ALL football-related matters, and i cant see most managers of the EPL being too happy with having someone foisted on them, and to have their role downgraded to only that of team selection and training

Better still, let me paste what a few papers are saying:

Comolli's role has been extended to oversee all football-related matters outside of first team training and selection.

'It covers pretty much all of the football side.

'Obviously I'm not getting involved in anything to do with team selection or training, that's the manager's remit.

'It's basically a day-to-day relationship with the manager and his coaching staff, it's also medical and sports science, performance analysis, player liaison, team travel, scouting and negotiating transfer contracts. A big part of it is the academy,' added the Frenchman.

Like i say...interesting times ahead

Penkoprod

[Abrak]

Statistically though Man City have been incredibly clever to spend so much money on their team and to perform so badly. It almost seems like they have confused correlation with causality.

Give over you numpty. The target is and always has been, to finish in the top 4 this season. Currently, we are right on track.

Go and find some statistics about teams who have changed as dramatically as us and how quick it takes them to gel. Most teams buy one player and it takes him months and months to fit in.

Well the obvious example would be Abromavich and Chelsea. He took over in June 2003 and had bought the Premiership by 2004/05.

I tend to agree with Captain Tevez who thought you had promised him to buy into the top 4 in 09/10 when you rather remarkably got beat by Spurs who spent approximately half as much on salaries.

[JacknDanny]

Statistically though Man City have been incredibly clever to spend so much money on their team and to perform so badly. It almost seems like they have confused correlation with causality.

Give over you numpty. The target is and always has been, to finish in the top 4 this season. Currently, we are right on track.

Go and find some statistics about teams who have changed as dramatically as us and how quick it takes them to gel. Most teams buy one player and it takes him months and months to fit in.

Well the obvious example would be Abromavich and Chelsea. He took over in June 2003 and had bought the Premiership by 2004/05.

I tend to agree with Captain Tevez who thought you had promised him to buy into the top 4 in 09/10 when you rather remarkably got beat by Spurs who spent approximately half as much on salaries.

Sorry to hijack the Liverpool thread, but this Magnus Pike chap talks so much sh!te!!

Show me any article ANYWHERE, that says Tevez was promised 4 th place last year?? Having read your posts ( or parts of them without nodding off), shows me that you know next to nothing about football, and just make stuff up to back up your inane theories.

Is there not a Science Project you can be helping out with somewhere?

[carmine]

Statistically though Man City have been incredibly clever to spend so much money on their team and to perform so badly. It almost seems like they have confused correlation with causality.

Give over you numpty. The target is and always has been, to finish in the top 4 this season. Currently, we are right on track.

Go and find some statistics about teams who have changed as dramatically as us and how quick it takes them to gel. Most teams buy one player and it takes him months and months to fit in.

Well the obvious example would be Abromavich and Chelsea. He took over in June 2003 and had bought the Premiership by 2004/05.

I tend to agree with Captain Tevez who thought you had promised him to buy into the top 4 in 09/10 when you rather remarkably got beat by Spurs who spent approximately half as much on salaries.

Sorry to hijack the Liverpool thread, but this Magnus Pike chap talks so much sh!te!!

Show me any article ANYWHERE, that says Tevez was promised 4 th place last year?? Having read your posts ( or parts of them without nodding off), shows me that you know next to nothing about football, and just make stuff up to back up your inane theories.

Is there not a Science Project you can be helping out with somewhere?

Did you fall out of bed on the wrong side, JD?

[smokie36]

Sorry to hijack the Liverpool thread, but this Magnus Pike chap talks so much sh!te!!

Show me any article ANYWHERE, that says Tevez was promised 4 th place last year?? Having read your posts ( or parts of them without nodding off), shows me that you know next to nothing about football, and just make stuff up to back up your inane theories.

Is there not a Science Project you can be helping out with somewhere?

Did you fall out of bed on the wrong side, JD?

Look who's talking.....I know you agree with everything J&D said!

[Abrak]

Sorry to hijack the Liverpool thread, but this Magnus Pike chap talks so much sh!te!!

Show me any article ANYWHERE, that says Tevez was promised 4 th place last year?? Having read your posts ( or parts of them without nodding off), shows me that you know next to nothing about football, and just make stuff up to back up your inane theories.

Is there not a Science Project you can be helping out with somewhere?

I wasnt really talking about 'football', I was talking about 'money' and there is absolutely no doubt that Man City's position near the top of the league is entirely due to spending an awful lot of it.

I guess if you want to talk football you could ask a Spurs fan who will tell how they beat you last year while spending half as much.

Look it is a bit much claiming to be a Man City fan who understands 'football' when it appears that all that Man City understand about football is that if they spend enough money, they will get to/near the top. Now I dont understand football, but even I know that.

[carmine]

Sorry to hijack the Liverpool thread, but this Magnus Pike chap talks so much sh!te!!

Show me any article ANYWHERE, that says Tevez was promised 4 th place last year?? Having read your posts ( or parts of them without nodding off), shows me that you know next to nothing about football, and just make stuff up to back up your inane theories.

Is there not a Science Project you can be helping out with somewhere?

I wasnt really talking about 'football', I was talking about 'money' and there is absolutely no doubt that Man City's position near the top of the league is entirely due to spending an awful lot of it.

I guess if you want to talk football you could ask a Spurs fan who will tell how they beat you last year while spending half as much.

Look it is a bit much claiming to be a Man City fan who understands 'football' when it appears that all that Man City understand about football is that if they spend enough money, they will get to/near the top. Now I dont understand football, but even I know that.

Touche :jap:

[smokie36]

I wasnt really talking about 'football', I was talking about 'money'

I guess if you want to talk football you could ask a Spurs fan who will tell how they beat you last year while spending half as much.

Don't involve us in this Abrak..no need...you're doing just fine although I've edited your post to cut out the crap. :jap:

[mrbojangles]

Don't involve us in this Abrak..no need...you're doing just fine although I've edited your post to cut out the crap. :jap:

Edited a tad more to cut out ALL the cr4p

[BIGTOE3]

Don't involve us in this Abrak..no need...you're doing just fine although I've edited your post to cut out the crap. :jap:

Edited a tad more to cut out ALL the cr4p

[Abrak]

Forget Man City as far as I am concerned the big match is against WBA next Saturday. I know it is a bit juvenile but this is a bit of a grudge match with Roy. If Liverpool win on Saturday, Man city can beat LFC for all I care but if they lose it will be more depressing than Braga (not even the cost of Cole and Jovanavic) or being annihilated by West Ham.

[MSingh]

Forget Man City as far as I am concerned the big match is against WBA next Saturday. I know it is a bit juvenile but this is a bit of a grudge match with Roy. If Liverpool win on Saturday, Man city can beat LFC for all I care but if they lose it will be more depressing than Braga (not even the cost of Cole and Jovanavic) or being annihilated by West Ham.

Annihilated, i'm diigging that Abrak..

[MSingh]

I guess if you want to talk football you could ask a Spurs fan who will tell how they beat you last year while spending half as much.

I'm digging that too & would love to know Anrak's thoughts about " Team A " who can take 4 Points off of a certain other Team in on Season along with stopping them scoring in both Games totalling 3 hours, when " Team B " have actually spent mor ethan 600% more than " Team A " over the past 4 Seasons..

[Abrak]

I guess if you want to talk football you could ask a Spurs fan who will tell how they beat you last year while spending half as much.

I'm digging that too & would love to know Anrak's thoughts about " Team A " who can take 4 Points off of a certain other Team in on Season along with stopping them scoring in both Games totalling 3 hours, when " Team B " have actually spent mor ethan 600% more than " Team A " over the past 4 Seasons..

Really an individual match or even two matches doesnt tell you much about a team - the deviation is too high. Wolves as we know beat Man United it doesnt show much. Liverpool took 6 points off Chelsea this season who spend considerably more than them but it does not mean they are a better team. Blackpool achieved the double against Liverpool but it does not make them a better team than Liverpool.

The easiest way to invent a system to effectively rank teams, is to form a league and then have every team in the league play every other both home and away and rank them according to the results. So when I said 'Spurs beat Man City' I was referring to 38 games over a whole season while their total spend was about half. Individual matches are obviously subject to luck, injuries, variation in performance, referee decisions, hangovers etc. You will be hard placed to find a team that has spent say 300% more than another during the season actually end up at the end of the season lower than the lower spending club. The greatest deviation I know from spend in the EPL was the relegation of Newcastle a couple of seasons ago when their spend was nearly 70m.

(I am sure if you go back far enough there would be far higher deviations because money wasnt as important. When LFC last won the title in 1990, their total wage bill was 5.4m, it is now over 100m and the RPI has increased only 96% since then.)

The unpredictability of an 'individual' match is what attracts football fans to the game. The relative predictability of 'aggregation' is what attracts dodgy businessmen to buy the league title.

[smokie36]

I guess if you want to talk football you could ask a Spurs fan who will tell how they beat you last year while spending half as much.

I'm digging that too & would love to know Anrak's thoughts about " Team A " who can take 4 Points off of a certain other Team in on Season along with stopping them scoring in both Games totalling 3 hours, when " Team B " have actually spent mor ethan 600% more than " Team A " over the past 4 Seasons..

Really an individual match or even two matches doesnt tell you much about a team - the deviation is too high. Wolves as we know beat Man United it doesnt show much. Liverpool took 6 points off Chelsea this season who spend considerably more than them but it does not mean they are a better team. Blackpool achieved the double against Liverpool but it does not make them a better team than Liverpool.

The easiest way to invent a system to effectively rank teams, is to form a league and then have every team in the league play every other both home and away and rank them according to the results. So when I said 'Spurs beat Man City' I was referring to 38 games over a whole season while their total spend was about half. Individual matches are obviously subject to luck, injuries, variation in performance, referee decisions, hangovers etc. You will be hard placed to find a team that has spent say 300% more than another during the season actually end up at the end of the season lower than the lower spending club. The greatest deviation I know from spend in the EPL was the relegation of Newcastle a couple of seasons ago when their spend was nearly 70m.

(I am sure if you go back far enough there would be far higher deviations because money wasnt as important. When LFC last won the title in 1990, their total wage bill was 5.4m, it is now over 100m and the RPI has increased only 96% since then.)

The unpredictability of an 'individual' match is what attracts football fans to the game. The relative predictability of 'aggregation' is what attracts dodgy businessmen to buy the league title.

:D tee hee hee!

Edited March 29, 2011 by smokie36

[MSingh]

I guess if you want to talk football you could ask a Spurs fan who will tell how they beat you last year while spending half as much.

I'm digging that too & would love to know Anrak's thoughts about " Team A " who can take 4 Points off of a certain other Team in on Season along with stopping them scoring in both Games totalling 3 hours, when " Team B " have actually spent mor ethan 600% more than " Team A " over the past 4 Seasons..

Really an individual match or even two matches doesnt tell you much about a team - the deviation is too high. Wolves as we know beat Man United it doesnt show much. Liverpool took 6 points off Chelsea this season who spend considerably more than them but it does not mean they are a better team. Blackpool achieved the double against Liverpool but it does not make them a better team than Liverpool.

The easiest way to invent a system to effectively rank teams, is to form a league and then have every team in the league play every other both home and away and rank them according to the results. So when I said 'Spurs beat Man City' I was referring to 38 games over a whole season while their total spend was about half. Individual matches are obviously subject to luck, injuries, variation in performance, referee decisions, hangovers etc. You will be hard placed to find a team that has spent say 300% more than another during the season actually end up at the end of the season lower than the lower spending club. The greatest deviation I know from spend in the EPL was the relegation of Newcastle a couple of seasons ago when their spend was nearly 70m.

(I am sure if you go back far enough there would be far higher deviations because money wasnt as important. When LFC last won the title in 1990, their total wage bill was 5.4m, it is now over 100m and the RPI has increased only 96% since then.)

The unpredictability of an 'individual' match is what attracts football fans to the game. The relative predictability of 'aggregation' is what attracts dodgy businessmen to buy the league title.

You are of course right Anorak, but <deleted> me does it feel good to stop a Team that has spent 600% ( not 300% ) scoring against you in 3 hours of Football ( 2 Matches ), let alone beat you..

[smokie36]

It feels good to be ahead of a team that spends £35m on one player...and only a few behind a side spending £50m on thesame.

Most of all though it feels great to be in the CL Quarter finals.

We're all feeling good today.

I wonder where carmine is on this fine day by the way.....

[MSingh]

It feels good to be ahead of a team that spends £35m on one player...and only a few behind a side spending £50m on thesame.

Most of all though it feels great to be in the CL Quarter finals.

We're all feeling good today.

I wonder where carmine is on this fine day by the way.....

Probably floating down a Road soemwhere nearly drowning as he didn't wnat to spend 30 Baht repariing a hole in his Boat knowing him..

[smokie36]

It feels good to be ahead of a team that spends £35m on one player...and only a few behind a side spending £50m on thesame.

Most of all though it feels great to be in the CL Quarter finals.

We're all feeling good today.

I wonder where carmine is on this fine day by the way.....

Probably floating down a Road soemwhere nearly drowning as he didn't wnat to spend 30 Baht repariing a hole in his Boat knowing him..

He tells everyone that. Its a canoe mate!

[Abrak]

You are of course right Anorak, but <deleted> me does it feel good to stop a Team that has spent 600% ( not 300% ) scoring against you in 3 hours of Football ( 2 Matches ), let alone beat you..

Ok Singh you dont have to repeat the 3 hours of football is two matches as I knew that already even before you told me.

This team A, team B business is a little beyond me. However it is fair to say that LFC didnt score and got beaten by Braga who, I believe, their total wage bill is less than Cole and Jovanovic combined in a year (I suspect you were referring to another team as they werent competing for points). I do agree that it is pretty remarkable to get beaten over two legs by a team that cost less than two players who you dont think should actually be in your first team.

It is a bit like England playing against Norway when the entire team costs about as much as Rooney's left <deleted>.

[MSingh]

You are of course right Anorak, but <deleted> me does it feel good to stop a Team that has spent 600% ( not 300% ) scoring against you in 3 hours of Football ( 2 Matches ), let alone beat you..

Ok Singh you dont have to repeat the 3 hours of football is two matches as I knew that already even before you told me.

This team A, team B business is a little beyond me. However it is fair to say that LFC didnt score and got beaten by Braga who, I believe, their total wage bill is less than Cole and Jovanovic combined in a year (I suspect you were referring to another team as they werent competing for points). I do agree that it is pretty remarkable to get beaten over two legs by a team that cost less than two players who you dont think should actually be in your first team.

It is a bit like England playing against Norway when the entire team costs about as much as Rooney's left <deleted>.

I know i don't have to repeat it, but i like too because i'm relaly happy about it & i can..

A & B Team have nothing to do with Liverpool or Braga by the way but you knew that by the Points reference.

I am/I will using/use your analysis as a weapon against Fans of a Club that i despise..

Another thing about my Team A & B thing is that the Team that had spent 600% more that couldn't score let alone beat the other Team, also had a bench with 46m GBP worth of Footballer on it's Bench, which is mor ethan double the cost of the other Team..

Trust me Anorak, it feels REALLY good..

[MSingh]

It feels good to be ahead of a team that spends £35m on one player...

A silly way of thinkign there, that Player hasn't even started a Game yet in the League, give him a chance..

& yeha, i'll be takign LFC over your bunch of Pond Liffe all day long Mr Smokie..

[smokie36]

It feels good to be ahead of a team that spends £35m on one player...

A silly way of thinkign there, that Player hasn't even started a Game yet in the League, give him a chance..

& yeha, i'll be takign LFC over your bunch of Pond Liffe all day long Mr Smokie..

No more late nights for you next season then singher.....unless you have a Friday night fixture!

[smokie36]

It feels good to be ahead of a team that spends £35m on one player...

A silly way of thinkign there, that Player hasn't even started a Game yet in the League, give him a chance..

£35m aye its the bargain buy of the year.

I'll say this though...he'll be a cracking player if he stays away from the birds n booze.....but that;s a big IF with that laddie.

[Abrak]

You know it is great to be actually supporting a team that 'can' spend 35m on a player.

We used to have to spend our time fumbling amongst the reserves looking for who would be the next great LFC player (Patheco anyone?) and now we can get to play fantasy football manager. Hazard? Sanchez? etc and in fact if there is a football player who is going to move clubs in the summer and not potentially move to Liverpool, we would like to know about it (ok Reina.... yes, doesnt count).

Edited March 29, 2011 by Abrak

[smokie36]

You know it is great to be actually supporting a team that 'can' spend 35m on a player.

We used to have to spend our time fumbling amongst the reserves looking for who would be the next great LFC player (Patheco anyone?) and now we can get to play fantasy football manager. Hazard? Sanchez? etc and in fact if there is a football player who is going to move clubs in the summer and not potentially move to Liverpool, we would like to know about it (ok Reina.... yes, doesnt count).

Sorry to burst your bubble but you only spent £8m net in January.

edit: and it was a panic buy of a player yet to play 90mins for you who would likely have been £10m cheaper in the summer. Still feeling great?

Edited March 29, 2011 by smokie36

[Abrak]

Sorry to burst your bubble but you only spent £8m net in January.

edit: and it was a panic buy of a player yet to play 90mins for you who would likely have been £10m cheaper in the summer. Still feeling great?

To be frank, Suarez has turned out as a better buy than we expected, Torres a better sell than we expected.... If Carroll doesnt (and it is far too early to judge) turn out particularly well it was not entirely unexpected nor a big deal.

I personally thought the owners did well to spend 50m at short notice but there you go. Admittedly they have now given the impression they are going to spend big (say another 50m net) in the summer and will disappoint if they dont.

[smokie36]

Sorry to burst your bubble but you only spent £8m net in January.

edit: and it was a panic buy of a player yet to play 90mins for you who would likely have been £10m cheaper in the summer. Still feeling great?

To be frank, Suarez has turned out as a better buy than we expected, Torres a better sell than we expected.... If Carroll doesnt (and it is far too early to judge) turn out particularly well it was not entirely unexpected nor a big deal.

I personally thought the owners did well to spend 50m at short notice but there you go. Admittedly they have now given the impression they are going to spend big (say another 50m net) in the summer and will disappoint if they dont.

The problem you'll face in the summer is getting good players in when there's no European football on offer.