Liverpool F.c.

[carmine]

http://www.bbc.co.uk...otball/18296948

What is the BBC on about Liverpool fans are unique... carmine ??

At the height of their powers, the great Anfield managers of the past have had the influence of a spiritual leader and for those seeking those qualities in Rodgers, his message must have been a seductive one.

Few Anfield debuts have displayed as much conviction, charisma and confidence. At times he was firm, at others eloquent - it was clear he was alive to the feelings and sensitivities of this unique fan base.

"Bastion of Invincibility" Liverpool Football Club.

the gospel according to Kenny Rogers

The new manager has already worked out how to handle Liverpool fans. Deal with them as you would an insecure girlfriend and keep telling them you love them and that they are special. tell them you understand them and that they are different and thats why you are with them.

[rijit]

I'll tell you what makes Liverpool unique a number of things one is that they share and happily so the city with their neighbours Everton, most families have blues and reds and they get on fine, even adds a little to the atmosphere. .Liverpool have fab attendances and fans waiting years for season ticket' Everton seemingly in the same position. But liverpool currently with wealthy owners so they dig deep. So what else do they have in common, they both desperately need new stadiums, and neither can get it together to build one, stupidity comes to mind with the stanley park option, Desperation and inadequacy come to mind with the new anfield expansion and everton seem to have given up after the last refusal. But no doubts they both desperatly need one So whats the answer, What both clubs need is someone/company with the BALLS to front it out and BUILD A world class 75000 seater stadium for both clubs to share . The whole ground share is a win win scenario, planning running building cost ect ect the only minus is the fans stubbornness stupidity call it what you may, and quite frankly with the current ground situ you will never on a consistent basis get anywhere near past glories. i'de lay money that with the ground share 5ish years down the road after a good assault on the title and Europe all will be forgotten.

Edited June 3, 2012 by rijit

[highchol]

oh deary me what a lovely prospect to look forward to....30 000 more whinging scousers.

On the plus side, the police will be happy knowing the miscreants whereabouts for a least a few hours, once a fortnight

[Abrak]

I'll tell you what makes Liverpool unique a number of things one is that they share and happily so the city with their neighbours Everton, most families have blues and reds and they get on fine, even adds a little to the atmosphere. .Liverpool have fab attendances and fans waiting years for season ticket' Everton seemingly in the same position. But liverpool currently with wealthy owners so they dig deep. So what else do they have in common, they both desperately need new stadiums, and neither can get it together to build one, stupidity comes to mind with the stanley park option, Desperation and inadequacy come to mind with the new anfield expansion and everton seem to have given up after the last refusal. But no doubts they both desperatly need one So whats the answer, What both clubs need is someone/company with the BALLS to front it out and BUILD A world class 75000 seater stadium for both clubs to share . The whole ground share is a win win scenario, planning running building cost ect ect the only minus is the fans stubbornness stupidity call it what you may, and quite frankly with the current ground situ you will never on a consistent basis get anywhere near past glories. i'de lay money that with the ground share 5ish years down the road after a good assault on the title and Europe all will be forgotten.

I admit you make it sound good when you put it like that. Unfortunately the match day fundamentals of Liverpool City are nothing like as good as you might imagine.

If we take Everton for starters. Woodison has a capacity of 40,200. Last season their average match day attendance was 33,288. Admittedly this was it lowest level for 17 years but essentially a football stadium with an average capacity utilisation of 80% doesnt really need expanding at all. With matchday revenues of less than 20m, they really dont have anything to form much of a gang plank to build a stadium (any stadium is likely to have to be financed from commercial and residential development that goes with it.) Finally of course, Everton have no money whatsoever.

LFC's matchday fundamentals are much better but perhaps not as good as you might imagine. Average attendance is 41,900 for a 44,900 stadium which is pretty much close to full capacity. The club also has a waiting list (which is closed) for season tickets of 25,000. Still season ticket and general ticket prices are not as high as in London. LFC has 42m matchday revenues from its stadium while Chelsea generates 68m from Stamford Bridge with a capacity of 41,900. When a stadium is at full capacity judging pent up demand is difficult - however, you can see that perhaps it isnt as high as you might imagine by the fact that say when Hodgson was in charge there were 10,000 empty seats against Bolton on New Year's day.

The club that has been doing the business plan on a new stadium estimates that the optimum size stadium is 55,000 to 60,000. Of course, if say the club had buckets of money, they could reduce ticket prices by half (to a far more respectable level) and I suspect they could fill a 75,000 stadium. The problem for Liverpool itself when it comes to match day attendance is two fold: first of all it is not a particularly big city, it is about half the size of Manchester for instance. Secondly the average income of the occupants is one of the lowest of any city in England as opposed to London where it is one of the highest in Europe.

Stadium developments are notoriously difficult to finance especially as a fair portion of the debt associated with them has to be relatively short term (say less than 10 years.) Supporters are notoriously optimistic over the financial benefits that they will bring especially as there will be none for the first 8 years. In fact, you dont have to be a financial genius to see that spending 300m to increase the capacity of Anfield by 15,000 seats (20,000 quid a seat) is simply a financial challenge rather than the key to the clubs success.

[rijit]

I'll tell you what makes Liverpool unique a number of things one is that they share and happily so the city with their neighbours Everton, most families have blues and reds and they get on fine, even adds a little to the atmosphere. .Liverpool have fab attendances and fans waiting years for season ticket' Everton seemingly in the same position. But liverpool currently with wealthy owners so they dig deep. So what else do they have in common, they both desperately need new stadiums, and neither can get it together to build one, stupidity comes to mind with the stanley park option, Desperation and inadequacy come to mind with the new anfield expansion and everton seem to have given up after the last refusal. But no doubts they both desperatly need one So whats the answer, What both clubs need is someone/company with the BALLS to front it out and BUILD A world class 75000 seater stadium for both clubs to share . The whole ground share is a win win scenario, planning running building cost ect ect the only minus is the fans stubbornness stupidity call it what you may, and quite frankly with the current ground situ you will never on a consistent basis get anywhere near past glories. i'de lay money that with the ground share 5ish years down the road after a good assault on the title and Europe all will be forgotten.

I admit you make it sound good when you put it like that. Unfortunately the match day fundamentals of Liverpool City are nothing like as good as you might imagine.

If we take Everton for starters. Woodison has a capacity of 40,200. Last season their average match day attendance was 33,288. Admittedly this was it lowest level for 17 years but essentially a football stadium with an average capacity utilisation of 80% doesnt really need expanding at all. With matchday revenues of less than 20m, they really dont have anything to form much of a gang plank to build a stadium (any stadium is likely to have to be financed from commercial and residential development that goes with it.) Finally of course, Everton have no money whatsoever.

LFC's matchday fundamentals are much better but perhaps not as good as you might imagine. Average attendance is 41,900 for a 44,900 stadium which is pretty much close to full capacity. The club also has a waiting list (which is closed) for season tickets of 25,000. Still season ticket and general ticket prices are not as high as in London. LFC has 42m matchday revenues from its stadium while Chelsea generates 68m from Stamford Bridge with a capacity of 41,900. When a stadium is at full capacity judging pent up demand is difficult - however, you can see that perhaps it isnt as high as you might imagine by the fact that say when Hodgson was in charge there were 10,000 empty seats against Bolton on New Year's day.

The club that has been doing the business plan on a new stadium estimates that the optimum size stadium is 55,000 to 60,000. Of course, if say the club had buckets of money, they could reduce ticket prices by half (to a far more respectable level) and I suspect they could fill a 75,000 stadium. The problem for Liverpool itself when it comes to match day attendance is two fold: first of all it is not a particularly big city, it is about half the size of Manchester for instance. Secondly the average income of the occupants is one of the lowest of any city in England as opposed to London where it is one of the highest in Europe.

Stadium developments are notoriously difficult to finance especially as a fair portion of the debt associated with them has to be relatively short term (say less than 10 years.) Supporters are notoriously optimistic over the financial benefits that they will bring especially as there will be none for the first 8 years. In fact, you dont have to be a financial genius to see that spending 300m to increase the capacity of Anfield by 15,000 seats (20,000 quid a seat) is simply a financial challenge rather than the key to the clubs success.

Abrak, you can look at the figures all you want, but bottom line if the clubs are to compete on the pitch they need to expand of the pitch. and sure the figures for Everton at the mo dont look great,. and for liverpool they defo need more capacity now, rather than 2 moro. imo neither club have sufficient flow at the mo to be able to afford a new stadium, but 2 gether they do, as you say poor fottie attracts less fans, so working on the positive of that better footie, attracts more fans ithey have every chance of growing . There's plenty of relatively cheap land around the outskirts of the city, that offer's v v good motorway access and planning should relatively easier than the frankly stupid ideas put 4 ward in the past A HUGE complex supermarket cinema's bowling diy ect ect will only be a plus for the area. bringin evrything a complex of the size generate's the bottom line is the current owners havn't the vision or the front to bring the whole thing about.

Edited June 3, 2012 by rijit

[RichBKK]

Rodgers, I think he has some idea of what hes walked in to and his method of playing the game is definitely more my cup of tea than the last mid table manager we went for in Roy Hodgson. He may gain some ground as time goes by

my problem at this time is FSG's habit of overpromoting people who are only good at certain jobs. Seen most acutely with Mr Ian Ayre, it didnt take long for Rodgers to mark his card

Club needs a football savvy CEO. Ayre is a good marketing man but as MD he sucks ass...no feel for the game, no idea on how to handle the press and seemingly no idea on what structure hes going to employ to run the club, making it up as he goes along. compared to Gill hes Huddersfield Town

FSG have cleared out some of the amateurs in certain roles within the club but like with Commoli they will discover in time they have overpromoted another blagger. Give it 6 months for him. Rodgers, I hope they let him do what he can and give him a fair shot at it, think he can do better than 8th for a start. Time will tell

Edited June 3, 2012 by RichBKK

[sharecropper]

oh deary me what a lovely prospect to look forward to....30 000 more whinging scousers.

On the plus side, the police will be happy knowing the miscreants whereabouts for a least a few hours, once a fortnight

That's really witty, you racist P***k.

I can't believe nobody's objected to that,

[smokie36]

oh deary me what a lovely prospect to look forward to....30 000 more whinging scousers.

On the plus side, the police will be happy knowing the miscreants whereabouts for a least a few hours, once a fortnight

That's really witty, you racist P***k.

I can't believe nobody's objected to that,

I was waiting for someone to say something all day!

[sharecropper]

oh deary me what a lovely prospect to look forward to....30 000 more whinging scousers.

On the plus side, the police will be happy knowing the miscreants whereabouts for a least a few hours, once a fortnight

That's really witty, you racist P***k.

I can't believe nobody's objected to that,

I was waiting for someone to say something all day!

That's why Everton finished above them this season - no fight left in them!

[MrRed]

Whinging Scousers is now racist is it?

Or did i miss something?

[smokie36]

Whinging Scousers is now racist is it?

Or did i miss something?

Probably your wallet!

[rixalex]

Whinging Scousers is now racist is it?

Or did i miss something?

I think it was the jibe about the police knowing the whereabouts of the miscreants... suggestion that all scousers are crims.

[nellyp]

http://www.bbc.co.uk...otball/18296948

What is the BBC on about Liverpool fans are unique... carmine ??

At the height of their powers, the great Anfield managers of the past have had the influence of a spiritual leader and for those seeking those qualities in Rodgers, his message must have been a seductive one.

Few Anfield debuts have displayed as much conviction, charisma and confidence. At times he was firm, at others eloquent - it was clear he was alive to the feelings and sensitivities of this unique fan base.

"Bastion of Invincibility" Liverpool Football Club.

Oh for Gods sake!!! were so f_cking special, rafa loves us and we have a huge persecution complex and you don't understand us..............take a day off. Yes that right, you're soooo special. Now, can i have my hub caps back please.

Finally agreeing, good to have you on board. Hub caps?????????? showing your age there mate, and your slightly archaic stance on the people of Liverpool

The most dangerous city in the UK

Manchester

Birmingham

Bristol

Glasgow

all cities can be, dependant on the street crime culture at the time..

Most dangerous cities for car theft: 1. Leeds 2. Bristol 3. Manchester according tohttp://www.endsleigh.co.uk/web/media/new…

their site also says:

Key Findings – City by City

Leeds is the worst city in the UK for car theft and appears in the top ten for accidents. Drivers in Leeds are twice as likely to suffer motor theft as drivers nationwide. However, despite its ranking, incidences of both car theft and accidents in the city have gone down. Birmingham is the second most dangerous city for motor accidents, but it falls outside of the top ten for theft. Manchester ranks as the third most dangerous city in the UK for both accidents and theft.

A bit old but interesting

[carmine]

http://www.bbc.co.uk...otball/18296948

What is the BBC on about Liverpool fans are unique... carmine ??

At the height of their powers, the great Anfield managers of the past have had the influence of a spiritual leader and for those seeking those qualities in Rodgers, his message must have been a seductive one.

Few Anfield debuts have displayed as much conviction, charisma and confidence. At times he was firm, at others eloquent - it was clear he was alive to the feelings and sensitivities of this unique fan base.

"Bastion of Invincibility" Liverpool Football Club.

Oh for Gods sake!!! were so f_cking special, rafa loves us and we have a huge persecution complex and you don't understand us..............take a day off. Yes that right, you're soooo special. Now, can i have my hub caps back please.

Finally agreeing, good to have you on board. Hub caps?????????? showing your age there mate, and your slightly archaic stance on the people of Liverpool

The most dangerous city in the UK

Manchester

Birmingham

Bristol

Glasgow

all cities can be, dependant on the street crime culture at the time..

Most dangerous cities for car theft: 1. Leeds 2. Bristol 3. Manchester according tohttp://www.endsleigh...dia/new…

their site also says:

Key Findings – City by City

Leeds is the worst city in the UK for car theft and appears in the top ten for accidents. Drivers in Leeds are twice as likely to suffer motor theft as drivers nationwide. However, despite its ranking, incidences of both car theft and accidents in the city have gone down. Birmingham is the second most dangerous city for motor accidents, but it falls outside of the top ten for theft. Manchester ranks as the third most dangerous city in the UK for both accidents and theft.

A bit old but interesting

Bore off nelly, theres a good girl

[StevieH]

Bore off nelly, theres a good girl

yes it's always boring when people use research and facts to deconstruct lazy, incorrect, asinine stereotypes isn't it?

[carmine]

Bore off nelly, theres a good girl

yes it's always boring when people use research and facts to deconstruct lazy, incorrect, asinine stereotypes isn't it?

If you say so.

Oh, little gooner santi liked that did he!!!!

[Devil]

Seems to be more discussion of late on most Red forums about what type of football will we play under Brendan next season and will we need to make changes in key areas such as midfield.

I note a few posters on this thread always referring to high possession stats for Swansea's and hence why they are a better team than Liverpool last season. I am still one them that doesn't believe high possession means to much unless it was in the final third and goal scoring chances are created as a result.

This video is on the Offal showing a Swansea v Liverpool Reserve game... The intention is to show that Brendan's philosophy is all about possession and runs through all levels of the club and he has been quoted as saying when the opposition doesn't have the ball you cant concede (along those lines) I did note one small part were liverpool regained possession and within 3-4 passes they nearly put the forward through on a fast counter in complete contrast to the 20 + passes Swansea were doing in their own half for most parts of the clip.

Link http://www.liverpoolfc.tv/news/latest-news/is-this-how-lfc-will-play-video

Don't get me wrong I love how continental teams have always been good on the ball and can control games with possession but I always preferred watching the old Brazil teams or Holland teams were they could quickly turn a bit of possession into a sudden really fast attack with just 3-4 aggressive passes into feet or other and then get a shot or chance in the final third were it counts.

And I have found myself watching the likes of Barcelona extremely frustrating at times even boring to watch! Of course Barcelona are on another level to say Swansea so its not fair to compare Brendans Swansea to a Barca who also have the added benefit of players such as Messi and Co to open up a defences even with 11 opposition players sat in front of goal.

I have been noted as saying we played some attacking free flowing football at time last season under Kenny but unlike under years such as Rafa I felt we lacked pressure on the opposition when not in possession of the ball in a number of games and we sat a little too deep also - but I still say our undoing in many games was not being able to finish chances...and we created enough! Kenny wasn't afraid to change systems and hit the ball long (varied the play) and I just can't see Brendan doing that or for that matter utilising Carroll in the system so the the next question.

I really see 2-3 players coming in to fit the new system Brendan will introduce and that will take sometime to get them to gel and the question is who will be going out as a result?

Not sure how this Tika Taka football is going translate at LFC next season and it will surely take more than a few seasons to get right.

"Bastion of Invincibility" Liverpool Football Club.

Edited June 5, 2012 by Devil

[Penkoprod]

I understand the concern as i have the same concerns myself.

While its all very well saying that, having the ball means the opposition cant score, unless your own players do something with it, apart from passing the ball back and forth, that is, it gets pretty boring pretty quickly.

There seems to be no room in his philosophy for a long, defence splitting pass to an onrushing forward to smash into the net, thr likes of which we see sometimes from a Chelsea side, shall we say.

Lets hope its not a case of boring the opposition (along with the fans!!!!) to death.

We were always lacking in the final third, when it came down to it. Lets hope Brendan can work on THAT too

Penkoprod

[Abrak]

It is actually a bit of a myth that Swansea are not that 'effective' in the final third. It is actually Liverpool's problem.

[Devil]

It is actually a bit of a myth that Swansea are not that 'effective' in the final third. It is actually Liverpool's problem.

Yes because we didn't score! Do you happen to have the stat to show chances created from the third / fourth pass?

"Bastion of Invincibility" Liverpool Football Club.

[Abrak]

It is actually a bit of a myth that Swansea are not that 'effective' in the final third. It is actually Liverpool's problem.

Yes because we didn't score! Do you happen to have the stat to show chances created from the third / fourth pass?

"Bastion of Invincibility" Liverpool Football Club.

No idea.

But it is an old debate isnt it. Reep did a study that showed that 80% of goals came from 3 passes or less and Hughes one which showed that 87% of goals came from 5 passes or less back in the 1980s.

[Devil]

It is actually a bit of a myth that Swansea are not that 'effective' in the final third. It is actually Liverpool's problem.

Yes because we didn't score! Do you happen to have the stat to show chances created from the third / fourth pass?

"Bastion of Invincibility" Liverpool Football Club.

No idea.

But it is an old debate isnt it. Reep did a study that showed that 80% of goals came from 3 passes or less and Hughes one which showed that 87% of goals came from 5 passes or less back in the 1980s.

Shame would of been a more fair way gauge or compare...stats can be kind of mentioned to suit either argument in many cases.

Was having a dig around and thought this had some good stats to read about Liverpool FC http://www.anfieldindex.com/5382/liverpool-shooting-statistical-graphical-review.html

"Bastion of Invincibility" Liverpool Football Club.

Edited June 5, 2012 by Devil

[Abrak]

BTW the 'keeping hold of the ball' argument is supported by the tight correlation between pass completion stats (particularly pass completion in the final third) and league position of the top clubs. Chelsea's final third pass completion is relatively poor.

[rijit]

I'm not backing what Whelan said or approving how he behaved, But After the recent Suarez fiasco maybe the powers 2 be at liverpool would be a touch more considered in their comments ?This is building site comment not board room multi million corp statements!!!! this md Ayre Is he a bit thick? "To be honest, I always thought John Bishop was the biggest comedian in the North West but Dave Whelan seems to have taken that mantle over the last couple of weeks."

http://www1.skysports.com/football/news/11095/7796307/Ayre-slams-Whelan-antics

Not that i'm overly concerned but how the f are you ever going to 'recover' With people like this in charge?

[StevieH]

haven't been a fan of ayre's behaviour since FSG took over and i think he may well be out of the door himself soon.

[SantiSuk]

Bore off nelly, theres a good girl

yes it's always boring when people use research and facts to deconstruct lazy, incorrect, asinine stereotypes isn't it?

If you say so.

Oh, little gooner santi liked that did he!!!!

yeah - thought it was an uncommonly eloquent riposte

[brit1984]

I'm not backing what Whelan said or approving how he behaved, But After the recent Suarez fiasco maybe the powers 2 be at liverpool would be a touch more considered in their comments ?This is building site comment not board room multi million corp statements!!!! this md Ayre Is he a bit thick? "To be honest, I always thought John Bishop was the biggest comedian in the North West but Dave Whelan seems to have taken that mantle over the last couple of weeks."

http://www1.skysport...s-Whelan-antics

Not that i'm overly concerned but how the f are you ever going to 'recover' With people like this in charge?

Indeed, very embarrassing comments that I hope someone from Liverpool will apologise for (even if privately).

I think Whelan showed us great respect even while we were interviewing one of his key employees.

[StevieH]

Indeed, very embarrassing comments that I hope someone from Liverpool will apologise for (even if privately).

I think Whelan showed us great respect even while we were interviewing one of his key employees.

can't say i agree with that. 'great respect' or even a little respect would have been to shut up about it and let private negotiations go on privately, as swansea's chairman did. dave whelan is a self-promoting right-wing gobshite as a rule. not a very nice man at all.

[JacknDanny]

Indeed, very embarrassing comments that I hope someone from Liverpool will apologise for (even if privately).

I think Whelan showed us great respect even while we were interviewing one of his key employees.

can't say i agree with that. 'great respect' or even a little respect would have been to shut up about it and let private negotiations go on privately, as swansea's chairman did. dave whelan is a self-promoting right-wing gobshite as a rule. not a very nice man at all.

You always have a way of bringing 'politics' into these discussions, Stevie!!

I dont know Dave Whelan personally, but he always comes across as a decent bloke.

Spent many years in football.

He bought Wigan when they really were down and out, and under his chairmanship, gets them to the premiership!! No mean feat.

And then to survive there with a fraction of the money that most other teams spend, is fantastic.

He has always been loyal to his managers, and he always talks good football sense.

Just because he is not a subscriber to The Morning Star, doesnt make him a bad guy, Stevie!!

[StevieH]

he's a gobshite rentaquote who is from wigan yet gave a million pounds to the conservative party jack. he also named wigan's bloody stadium after himself. couple of typically hypocritical soundbites from him:

"What I don't want to do is find money for foreign players who come here with the attitude of, 'I want the money'. They bring great skills but they have also taken a hell of a lot of money out of our game, and some of them haven't given value for money. What you get from most home-grown players is effort, and some of the foreign lads don't give 100 per cent. Not all, but some."

"Sam (Allardyce) has been brilliant. He has had a go. He has done deals, and while some have worked for him, others have been a complete waste of time. Who wants to watch foreigners every week? I don't mind one or two, but not seven or eight. There should be a limit on foreign players, and if we get up I want to sign good young Brits where I can."

he doesn't have to subscribe to the morning star, he just has to be not a tory. particularly in the north-west of the country. he's a typically hypocritical tory shithouse, not a "decent bloke".