5 Dead In Ayutthaya Bridge Collapse

[wiyada]

Just saw an item on Tele about it and they said utes and pickups had been using the bridge.

Looks like it had been grossly overloaded, so nothing to do with bad engineering or workmanship.

it wasn't possible to use it by pickup's, you could hardly cross each other with 2 motorbikes !

Amazing how much misinformation flys around after a disaster like this. Thank god Thaivisa posters don't take part in administering justice in this country as they would make the Thai system look like a better alternative.

The way some comments read is that Thailand couldn't engineer anything but I don't see the same posters being afraid to drive on elevated road section in Bangkok or avoiding the airport or refusing to sleep in their condos. Have another Leo and go back to sleep.

Perhaps the poster who says he lives in the village effected perhaps he could provide us with more 'real' information.

[khaowong1]

another tragic accident,health and safety are on their way.

Don't think they would ever get a visa and if they did then blame might be levied on someone causing a loss of face.

Things will never change in a country like this.

I have been to lot's of funerals here like many other westerners I'm sure but very rarely seen anyone really upset unlike funerals in England where people do get upset and show it, makes me wonder if Thais view life as precious as us because if they did then perhaps they would make things change.

No Thais do not view life as precious, they just honk the horn as they pass the temple and think nothing of swerving in front of you after. Here funerals are parties, drinks, candies for the kids, It is not often I have seen a Thai cry at a funeral here and have been invited to many. Both at Temples and just out in the forest to burn the body. And I give a donation to the children to give to their mother, the older children or to the wife of the deceased etc. Here funerals are parties from two days to a week, while they wait for relatives to arrive from foreign countries, the body is put on ice. Probably the same Ice they put in your beer later.

Just was at one yesterday.. you are right. Hard to tell it was a funeral.. I'm a Buddhist monk.. I've seen many funerals. And I know this is going to bring heat down on me, but, Thai's have a different outlook on life than we foreigners do. To them, it's not an end of life, but rather like changing airplanes on your destination to heaven. If you get my drift.

[Spalpeen]

Sad - but Thai engineering at it´s best.

R.I.P.

To be fair, the Americans have had some major bridge collapses over the years. And then there was the famous wobbly bridge in London. On the whole, Thai engineering is as good as anywhere else.

Of course, everything's equal everywhere! Justice is the same in Thailand, it's just different! Politics are the same, there's crooks everywhere! Engineering is of the same quality as it is everywhere as well! Nice post.

I'm a retired structural engineer. There's almost nothing I don't know about bridge construction, which means I'm well placed to comment. What's your claim to expertise on this subject?

[wilcopops]

Lot of people jumping to conclusions here ior just using it the put the blame on "thais".

I bet they didn't even bother to find out who designed the bridge or constructed it before they spouted off on one

[spidermike007]

Another sad example of a bridge built to a price not a spec. Engineers should be held to account, especially if the bridge was just 'repaired'. But it will be put down to karma and no doubt politics will enter into it as blaming a past govt for the failure etc.

Exactly. Someone needs to spend a long time in prison, and their immediate family needs to be fined 1,000,000 baht for every person who died, at a minimum. Unless and until Thailand starts behaving like a responsible member of the world community, this nonsense will continue. Taking responsibility seems to be a very foreign concept in the LOS.

[webfact]

UPDATE
Officials yet to conclude cause of Ayutthaya bridge collapse; EIT blames faulty construction

AYUTTHAYA, 30 April 2013 (NNT) – Engineers from the Town and Country Planning Department have yet to conclude whether the collapse of a small suspension bridge in Ayutthaya was a result of design failure or shoddy construction materials.

The death toll from the bridge collapse remains at 4, while the number of injuries has risen to 13. 10 motorcycles fall off the bridge when it gave way.

The suspension bridge is located in Tha Luang sub-district, Tha Rua district, Ayutthaya province.

Around 100 soldiers from a military center in Saraburi province are assisting with clearing the debris from the river, to allow water traffic to resume.

Chettha Pathumrangsi, the mayor of Tha Luang sub-district municipality, said the bridge can normally hold 4 tons of weight.

After inspecting the bridge with his delegation of engineers, Engineering Institute of Thailand Secretary-General Thanet Wirasiri said he believed the cause had been substandard construction, resulting in the slings not being able to accommodate the weight it was supposed to bear. He said the main cause was the corroded cables, but this was exacerbated by the municipality's failure to fix the bridge when it showed sign of tilting.


-- NNT 2013-04-30

[MarkCyr]

I agree with Spalpeen. All this railing against Thai engineering standards is missing the mark. Japan recently had a tunnel collapse killing about 9 people and it was after a scheduled inspection -- and few people would say that Japanese engineers build things half a**ed. A lot of stuff gets built around the world, and when it gets old, some of it falls down. This time, tragically, it happened here in Thailand.

[overherebc]

I agree with Spalpeen. All this railing against Thai engineering standards is missing the mark. Japan recently had a tunnel collapse killing about 9 people and it was after a scheduled inspection -- and few people would say that Japanese engineers build things half a**ed. A lot of stuff gets built around the world, and when it gets old, some of it falls down. This time, tragically, it happened here in Thailand.

Initial construction is usually good and initial inspection is generally carried out well, payment for work can be tied to these two factors. Where it falls down, pardon the pun, is the follow up inspection that has to be paid for by the asset holder. Usually carried out by the lowest bidder, don't need to expand on that.

As long as someone gets a report to say the inspection done and the necessary repairs were carried everyone is happy.

Not only Thailand, it's world wide.

Search for NDT Cabin and look for the story on the UT tech' who was fabricating reports to pass welds on of all things the hull welds on a new nuke submarine. He is now doing time and paid a substantial fine.

[Yunla]

My condolences to the families of the deceased, and prayers for a swift recovery for all those injured in this tragedy.

Accidents like this can happen in any country in the world, but the risks are far higher when infrastructure-money is syphoned-off by the Govt for other things.

Another reminder to PTP that "Infrastructure Investment" across the board, should have been their number-one priority from their first day in office, along with a corruption null-point. Instead of the actual PTP "work" ; passports-for-convicts, bailing-out their criminal members, massive cash windfalls to their favourite rioters, and glitchy tablets for kids.

[wackysleet]

My condolences to the families of the deceased, and prayers for a swift recovery for all those injured in this tragedy.

Accidents like this can happen in any country in the world, but the risks are far higher when infrastructure-money is syphoned-off by the Govt for other things.

Another reminder to PTP that "Infrastructure Investment" across the board, should have been their number-one priority from their first day in office, along with a corruption null-point. Instead of the actual PTP "work" ; passports-for-convicts, bailing-out their criminal members, massive cash windfalls to their favourite rioters, and glitchy tablets for kids.

A lot of infrastructure money gets syphoned off at the source of the construction and always has been but I thought it would not be long before some clown blamed all of Thailands woes on the PTP. Try to understand that most Thai politicians have their noses in the trough and always have done and this is not a post about the PTP.

[Halion]

Sad - but Thai engineering at it´s best.

R.I.P.

To be fair, the Americans have had some major bridge collapses over the years. And then there was the famous wobbly bridge in London. On the whole, Thai engineering is as good as anywhere else.

Perhaps you are right that the engineering plans may well be within international specifications however the problem lies in the actual construction which is plagued with corrupt practice, greed inexperience and neglegence. Thailand lacks the standard checks and balance regiemes of developed countries and until this is in place there will be no change in the status quo.

[Yunla]

My condolences to the families of the deceased, and prayers for a swift recovery for all those injured in this tragedy.

Accidents like this can happen in any country in the world, but the risks are far higher when infrastructure-money is syphoned-off by the Govt for other things.

Another reminder to PTP that "Infrastructure Investment" across the board, should have been their number-one priority from their first day in office, along with a corruption null-point. Instead of the actual PTP "work" ; passports-for-convicts, bailing-out their criminal members, massive cash windfalls to their favourite rioters, and glitchy tablets for kids.

A lot of infrastructure money gets syphoned off at the source of the construction and always has been but I thought it would not be long before some clown blamed all of Thailands woes on the PTP. Try to understand that most Thai politicians have their noses in the trough and always have done and this is not a post about the PTP.

Yes but they are the current government, who could certainly have invested heavily in infrastructure and safety standards over the last two years. It is traditional, when a nation that could afford an 'A'grade infrastructure, has a needless tragedy due to lack of building regulations & quality control, the blame always falls with the sitting government.

And since the thread is about a bridge collapse, I think its only fair and normal to say "why has the current government not injected more money into infrastructure building / safety standards / regulation."

Please believe me, if this was the UK, and David Cameron's sister was PM, and spending all her government time and money getting him a passort while he's on the run from the police for crimes of murder & larceny, and a bridge in Wakefield collapsed due to non-investment in national infrastructure & lack of state building regulations, I would be asking the same questions of Ms Cameron.

Edited April 30, 2013 by Yunla

[wackysleet]

My condolences to the families of the deceased, and prayers for a swift recovery for all those injured in this tragedy.

Accidents like this can happen in any country in the world, but the risks are far higher when infrastructure-money is syphoned-off by the Govt for other things.

Another reminder to PTP that "Infrastructure Investment" across the board, should have been their number-one priority from their first day in office, along with a corruption null-point. Instead of the actual PTP "work" ; passports-for-convicts, bailing-out their criminal members, massive cash windfalls to their favourite rioters, and glitchy tablets for kids.

A lot of infrastructure money gets syphoned off at the source of the construction and always has been but I thought it would not be long before some clown blamed all of Thailands woes on the PTP. Try to understand that most Thai politicians have their noses in the trough and always have done and this is not a post about the PTP.

Yes but they are the current government, who could certainly have invested heavily in infrastructure and safety standards over he last two years. It is traditional, when a nation that could afford an 'A'grade infrastructure, has a needless tragedy due to lack of building regulations & quality control, the blame always falls with the sitting government.

And since the thread is about a bridge collapse, I think its only fair and normal to say "why has the current govenment not injected more money into infrastructure building / safety standards / regulation."

Please believe me, if this was the UK, and David Cameron's sister was PM, and spending all her government time and money getting him a passort while he's on the run from the police for crimes of murder & larceny, and a bridge in Wakefield collapsed due to non-investment in national infrastructure & lack of state building regulations, I would be asking the same questions of Ms Cameron.

Another poster spouting his two penny worth in the name of reality when in fact this was a local and problem of what appears to be bad/corrupt supervision of building practices which cannot in reality be blame on central government of any party but take note that the contract was awarded by the Democrats, you remember these people, they are the ones that awarded the police station contract and along with the present government did not follow up on a countrywide contract whereas the bridge was overseen by local officials.

You also seem to be blaming this or any previous government for the actions of people riding m/bikes on a pedestrian bridge with reports of trucks using it as well, whatever caused the collapse stupid people also contributed to it by continuing to use the structure when reports state it was tilting by 30cm.

[SantiSuk]

Sad - but Thai engineering at it´s best.

R.I.P.

On the whole, Thai engineering is as good as anywhere else.

Xonax has never bought Thai electrical goods or household appliances. Mini version of the Thai quality v cost surrender monkey approach.

[thaibeachlovers]

Sad - but Thai engineering at it´s best.

R.I.P.

To be fair, the Americans have had some major bridge collapses over the years. And then there was the famous wobbly bridge in London. On the whole, Thai engineering is as good as anywhere else.

That depends on the guy doing the welding etc. Were they properly qualified? My wife had some welders around to put up a new gate. It fell off the post the next day because the welds weren't done properly. Even I can weld better than they could.

[harrry]

10 motorbikes say waqy = 10 *100 kg = 1000kg

2 people * 10 bike * 50 = 500kg

all the bikes that did not fall in the water

say another 10 1000kg

unknown pedestrians say 50 @ 50 kg 2500kg

total 5000kg

load limit 4000 kg

probably designed for dynamic load of people too not bikes = disaster waiting.

[Yunla]

My condolences to the families of the deceased, and prayers for a swift recovery for all those injured in this tragedy.

Accidents like this can happen in any country in the world, but the risks are far higher when infrastructure-money is syphoned-off by the Govt for other things.

Another reminder to PTP that "Infrastructure Investment" across the board, should have been their number-one priority from their first day in office, along with a corruption null-point. Instead of the actual PTP "work" ; passports-for-convicts, bailing-out their criminal members, massive cash windfalls to their favourite rioters, and glitchy tablets for kids.

A lot of infrastructure money gets syphoned off at the source of the construction and always has been but I thought it would not be long before some clown blamed all of Thailands woes on the PTP. Try to understand that most Thai politicians have their noses in the trough and always have done and this is not a post about the PTP.

Yes but they are the current government, who could certainly have invested heavily in infrastructure and safety standards over he last two years. It is traditional, when a nation that could afford an 'A'grade infrastructure, has a needless tragedy due to lack of building regulations & quality control, the blame always falls with the sitting government.

And since the thread is about a bridge collapse, I think its only fair and normal to say "why has the current govenment not injected more money into infrastructure building / safety standards / regulation."

Please believe me, if this was the UK, and David Cameron's sister was PM, and spending all her government time and money getting him a passort while he's on the run from the police for crimes of murder & larceny, and a bridge in Wakefield collapsed due to non-investment in national infrastructure & lack of state building regulations, I would be asking the same questions of Ms Cameron.

Another poster spouting his two penny worth in the name of reality when in fact this was a local and problem of what appears to be bad/corrupt supervision of building practices which cannot in reality be blame on central government of any party but take note that the contract was awarded by the Democrats, you remember these people, they are the ones that awarded the police station contract and along with the present government did not follow up on a countrywide contract whereas the bridge was overseen by local officials.

You also seem to be blaming this or any previous government for the actions of people riding m/bikes on a pedestrian bridge with reports of trucks using it as well, whatever caused the collapse stupid people also contributed to it by continuing to use the structure when reports state it was tilting by 30cm.

*Her* two pennies worth.

If you read my actual post, in which I talked about 'other countries', it should be obvious to you that I was not only talking about PTP.

In addition, you laughingly say that bridge building standards should be no concern of central government.

Obviously this is an absurd statement by your good self. Central government is there to pass and enforce laws, including national safety regulations. That means that regardless of which firm builds the bridge, a government agency inspector must check the work, s/he is accountable to the PM, and s/he in turn is accountable to the electorate. By this system, the blame for needless tragedies falls on the Government.

What you clearly don't understand, is that becoming a PM does not just mean you get a car-upgrade and 5-star lunching. It means you take responsibility and that means you shoulder the blame when things fail. There were no adequate safety regulations (laws) in place, no reliable bridge inspectors appointed and vetted by the government. The bridge collapsed. Ergo the government failed to do its job. Ergo they are to blame. And for your precious PTP, they have had two years, and an enviable tourist income to spend on critical infrastructure work, regulatory overhauls, and yes corruption null. They have not produced any of those things. People who criticise them for this, are doing a public service. Sorry you don't understand that.

Edited April 30, 2013 by Yunla

[jackspratt]

*

What you clearly don't understand, is that becoming a PM does not just mean you get a car-upgrade and 5-star lunching. It means you take responsibility and that means you shoulder the blame when things fail.

Scheme water went off for an hour in my village yesterday.

Bl00dy Yingluck!

Edited May 1, 2013 by jackspratt

[wackysleet]

Yunla

You appear to have put your own slant entirely on my statement simply by lying over things you accuse me of saying which I did not, please read my post again, and your statement does not address the reality of Thailand and if you read my post correctly I apportion blame for these ongoing tragedies to Thai politicians of all parties. I have frequently said in my posts that there has in my mind never been a Thai politician of any party that does not have his/her nose in the trough and far from being a follower of the PTP I have never or will never be a blind follower of any party unlike so many on here.

Yes, you are correct in stating that ultimately the government of the day is responsible but as with all encumbent parties, posts are delegated to others who in turn delegate and as I have stated already that where money can be made then Thais will be at the head of the line. Understand this, recent polls suggest that the majority of {I think the figure was 83%} Thais accept corruption and see no wrong as long as they are also on the receiving end which they are not.

Corruption is a part of Thai society and culture and will continue to be so, certainly in my lifetime but lets talk about infrastructure, you state that the government have done nothing in two years are you seriously suggesting the Democrats did more? what about the flood defences or do they not come under your definition of infrastructure along with other projects or pray tell me your definition of infrastructure.

I have lived here more than 20 years and things are the same as they always have been and will continue to be but may I suggest you research exactly the % of GDP tourism actually brings in compared to other means.

You have completely distorted my post in an effort to justify your hatred of PTP, unlike me , I see no good in any Thai MP of any party they are all I suspect corrupt, remember this, Thailand is not the west.

Edited May 1, 2013 by wackysleet

[harrry]

Of course it only appens in Thailand

http://www.smh.com.au/world/cars-plunge-into-river-as-us-bridge-collapses-20130524-2k5lq.html

[pacharaphet]

Don't think they would ever get a visa and if they did then blame might be levied on someone causing a loss of face.

Things will never change in a country like this.

I have been to lot's of funerals here like many other westerners I'm sure but very rarely seen anyone really upset unlike funerals in England where people do get upset and show it, makes me wonder if Thais view life as precious as us because if they did then perhaps they would make things change view of life is that it is as precious as it is in England, and as anywhere else. Don't take

>>

another tragic accident,health and safety are on their way.

Don't think they would ever get a visa and if they did then blame might be levied on someone causing a loss of face.

Things will never change in a country like this.

I have been to lot's of funerals here like many other westerners I'm sure but very rarely seen anyone really upset unlike funerals in England where people do get upset and show it, makes me wonder if Thais view life as precious as us because if they did then perhaps they would make things change.

Thais view life as precious, just as people do in England, and elsewhere. Do not mistake a public show of grief at a funeral as anything other than what it is. As for Thais desiring to change their country for the better, most do want this, but political power resides in the hands of those who profit from the current arrangement, not those who suffer. Worksafe changes occurred in the west due largely to trade union action, over decades. That is needed in Thailand.

You are aware of the results of most attempts at trade unions in Thailand (and even often in the West, although the mass movements do have potential and have created social shifts in the past as you point out), right? The organizers pocket huge sums, then back out once pressured too much from above (usually they are paid to give up, or threatened, or sometimes worse). I once was all about expanding trade unions in Thailand but after seeing what has happened with some attempts to form unions at Tesco Lotus, I'm not sure the West's "path to success" is always such a foolproof plan.

[pacharaphet]

*Her* two pennies worth.

If you read my actual post, in which I talked about 'other countries', it should be obvious to you that I was not only talking about PTP.

In addition, you laughingly say that bridge building standards should be no concern of central government.

Obviously this is an absurd statement by your good self. Central government is there to pass and enforce laws, including national safety regulations. That means that regardless of which firm builds the bridge, a government agency inspector must check the work, s/he is accountable to the PM, and s/he in turn is accountable to the electorate. By this system, the blame for needless tragedies falls on the Government.

What you clearly don't understand, is that becoming a PM does not just mean you get a car-upgrade and 5-star lunching. It means you take responsibility and that means you shoulder the blame when things fail. There were no adequate safety regulations (laws) in place, no reliable bridge inspectors appointed and vetted by the government. The bridge collapsed. Ergo the government failed to do its job. Ergo they are to blame. And for your precious PTP, they have had two years, and an enviable tourist income to spend on critical infrastructure work, regulatory overhauls, and yes corruption null. They have not produced any of those things. People who criticise them for this, are doing a public service. Sorry you don't understand that.

What you clearly don't understand is that you don't really get to tell Thai politicians what it means for them to be a PM.....I mean in theory world organizations and national governments (as well as maybe the Thai people, I don't know) should have that right....but do they really give a damn?

Your criticism of the PTP isn't necessarily wrong, but at the same time, cmon the rebuilding was funded by the Dems....and you can't expect central government to ensure the enforcement of safety regs every all the time...I mean you could, but tell me how that fits into Thai politics historically? I suppose you could argue that it would make the people respect their govt. more yadayadayada...but I would argue that Jom Phol Por, Sarit, Thanorm, and many others were not really so interested in this, as Keynesian politics never really thrived in Asia (what I mean is they weren't interested in improving the quality of their peoples' lives, they wanted to accrue power..Sarit's politics are a great example of how infrastructure got used to consolidate power). Populist policies worked to get the reds on the bandwagon, but even still, you really think the central government needs to be held accountable because they're in office? Even if they had allocated portions of the budget to infrastructure, I highly doubt they'd have made it to the bridge in question by now. I admire your vigor and desire to stick it to the woman, but I really don't think you are taking the specifics of the situation into account. Universalism is a really dangerous card to play: "this worked great in my country and it will in others too!". There are reasons, many many reasons, why that bridge was in poor enough shape to collapse after 30 years. We could look back to its building 30 years ago, its maintenance since, and the repairs done....or we can say: down with the current government.

While I too would like to see more money spent on ensuring the peoples' safety, I think there is much more to this situation than you purport.

[DocN]

Of course it only appens in Thailand

http://www.smh.com.au/world/cars-plunge-into-river-as-us-bridge-collapses-20130524-2k5lq.html

...and who exactly said that?

But since you are so well at reading news, you certainly saw this part, didn't you?

"The four-lane Interstate 5 bridge - more than half a century old...."

...and the difference is.....???

[Tchooptip]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_bridge_failures

to the only in Thailand brigade

[DocN]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_bridge_failures

to the only in Thailand brigade

First of all: only in Thailand was said by who?

Second: i didn't read the whole catalogue, but you sure did, so enlighten me: how many of the bridges in the last 10 years collapsed just 1 year after they were finished and had just undergone several "repairs"?

[Tchooptip]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_bridge_failures

to the only in Thailand brigade

First of all: only in Thailand was said by who?

Second: i didn't read the whole catalogue, but you sure did, so enlighten me: how many of the bridges in the last 10 years collapsed just 1 year after they were finished and had just undergone several "repairs"?

First:I never said anyone said anything I just post it FOR the"Only in Thailand brigade"

Second:In norway for instance, still better than 1 year only "under construction" not sure Norway is an underdeveloped country

Bridge under construction in Lade

Trondheim Norway 8 May 2013 Bridge collapsed under construction^[42]

2 killed

http://www.newsinenglish.no/2013/05/09/two-found-dead-after-bridge-collapse/

Yours truly

[harrry]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/King_Street_Bridge_(Melbourne)

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/08/25/world/asia/collapse-of-new-bridge-underscores-chinas-infrastructure-concerns.html?_r=0

Edited May 26, 2013 by harrry

[DocN]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/King_Street_Bridge_(Melbourne)

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/08/25/world/asia/collapse-of-new-bridge-underscores-chinas-infrastructure-concerns.html?_r=0

1952 and China

'nuff said!

And before you dig out more: we get the point!

Only one problem: this is THAIvisa and we discuss things, happening in THAILAND most and foremost.

You want to anyhow imply, that in Thailand everything (or even : most things) are handled to an international or rather western security standard?

It's gonna be a hard day for you, when you wake up!

Edited May 26, 2013 by DocN