5 Dead In Ayutthaya Bridge Collapse

[britinthai]

Bigger bridge failures in bigger countries have occurred, whom most TV members are from; but they have the nerve to quote bad Thai engineering. Yes this should have not happened, but it did and no doubt more failures will occur. I recall building a large steel bridge in Thailand for a western company, because of the poor quality that went into that bridge, I raised great questions, but the western company, including the western consultant ignored serious quality concerns and finished the bridge. An example a free fitting 7 meter by 3 meter by 70mm thick plate should have been flared into shape, but a western construction manager instructed a jacking procedure that forced over 400T so it could be welded to diaphragms. A large volume of the material used for the bridge came from a western mill and from undisclosed testing by BV, the material was riddled with inclusions. The bridge had a repair rate of 65% - 30% of this was in caution of the acceptance of the poor quality material. The bridge was for another country and is now complete and in operation, but it is one bridge I will not be crossing. Basically it is a Thai made bridge under western management; therefore for those who branded the failure of the bridge in subject, you should not brand Thai engineering as like most bridges they are not designed by Thai engineers.

Edited April 29, 2013 by britinthai

[MILT]

another tragic accident,health and safety are on their way.

Don't think they would ever get a visa and if they did then blame might be levied on someone causing a loss of face.

Things will never change in a country like this.

I have been to lot's of funerals here like many other westerners I'm sure but very rarely seen anyone really upset unlike funerals in England where people do get upset and show it, makes me wonder if Thais view life as precious as us because if they did then perhaps they would make things change.

I have notice this as well. I have learned that although people here in Thailand grieve for the lose of a friend or family member people grieve in many different ways, mainly by themselves, also there is a view in Asia, that there is an afterlife and although the body is done the spirit lives on. Thai people in my understanding view death as a lose and a victory and that all go to paradise where we will see our friends and family again. Similar to the western Christian belief that we will see our loved ones again in heaven. People morn in different ways. Ever been to a Irish or Scottish wake? It's one hell of a send off. It's hard to make a comparison as you stated that they don't view life a precious as we westerns claim we do. Different cultures all have different stories and how they view death, progress, and overall social safety. Are we westerners in the position to make a judgement because they don't or won't adhere to our way of thinking and living? I hope not.

[Considered Opinion]

another tragic accident,health and safety are on their way.

I know I am catty-arsed about this, but can someone explain to me the use of the word "accident", in this situation.

Much like car smashes, when buildings fall down there is a cause, sitting right behind the effect.

An example: Khun Nuttisuk drives his pick up down the super highway at 160 Km/H. Khun Nutti hits Khun Sawyounot at an intersection, where he is doing a U-turn to go into town to buy a new hen.

Causative issues are:

Kh Nutti was going too fast for the road

Kh Sawyounot should not have been doing a U-turn there.

Kh Designmyroads failed to put proper signage in if he was going to allow U-turns

Kh boyinBrown should probably have had a sign saying "no U turn here"

The bridge collapse is no more an "accident, than the death of Kh Sawyounot, but the same person will be held responsible.

His name of course is Kh Takenoresponsibility.

Please, as this is an English language site, stick to English, and leave smoke and mirrors for the less aware.

Kh. Toldyouso10000times

Chiang Mai

[britinthai]

At first a Thai person told me it was a two hundred year old bridge to which I mentioned it's not inconceivable that it may have structural problems being so old. Then finding out it's a commemorative bridge only 31 years old and already in need of repairs?

Was it built with Legos or something? Please don't build a nuclear plant in Thailand.

Everyone knows Legos hold up better.

Typical Thai money-pocketing leading to deaths and suffering of the pawns that have voted only to be treated as nothing more than what they really are to the powers-that-be.

There's a footbridge near the Bangkhae market that is about the collapse as well. I've been over it before and the concrete is so worn out in places that there are holes right through where you can see the rusty mesh below. Of course, I pretty much doubt it'll be fixed. The local gov'ts are too preoccupied with those big plastic garbage bins instead.

And what will these Thais do about it? They'll accept a bribe or a pay-off or just whittle it all down to bad luck.

At first a Thai person told me it was a two hundred year old bridge to which I mentioned it's not inconceivable that it may have structural problems being so old. Then finding out it's a commemorative bridge only 31 years old and already in need of repairs?

Was it built with Legos or something? Please don't build a nuclear plant in Thailand.

Having been in China for a few years building nuke plants; Thailand having a nuke plant is the least of your problems.

[wackysleet]

another tragic accident,health and safety are on their way.

Don't think they would ever get a visa and if they did then blame might be levied on someone causing a loss of face.

Things will never change in a country like this.

I have been to lot's of funerals here like many other westerners I'm sure but very rarely seen anyone really upset unlike funerals in England where people do get upset and show it, makes me wonder if Thais view life as precious as us because if they did then perhaps they would make things change.

I have notice this as well. I have learned that although people here in Thailand grieve for the lose of a friend or family member people grieve in many different ways, mainly by themselves, also there is a view in Asia, that there is an afterlife and although the body is done the spirit lives on. Thai people in my understanding view death as a lose and a victory and that all go to paradise where we will see our friends and family again. Similar to the western Christian belief that we will see our loved ones again in heaven. People morn in different ways. Ever been to a Irish or Scottish wake? It's one hell of a send off. It's hard to make a comparison as you stated that they don't view life a precious as we westerns claim we do. Different cultures all have different stories and how they view death, progress, and overall social safety. Are we westerners in the position to make a judgement because they don't or won't adhere to our way of thinking and living? I hope not.

Actually I said it simply makes me wonder if Thais view life as being as precious as us. I was asking a question not making a statement of fact as I do not know the answer.

[Considered Opinion]

Bridge is a pedestrian bridge also used by motorbikes.

Design was probably to the same bridge standards using in the west based on the load of a fairly spread out load of pedestrians.

It probably carried many more people than designed for but the safety margin possibly covered that.

It also carried motorbikes. Much heavier than a pedestrian. Never designed for that so continual overload fatigue etc had its inevitible effect.

Far be it from me, but in the photo, can I point out the size of the stays?

I'm no engineer, but they look to be 2" approximately. They will be multi-strand galvanised or high tensile steel... perhaps?

There would need to be a very large number of pedestrians on the bridge to break those suckers, therefore this is some form of Southern Terrorist attack, or perhaps not... maybe they forgot which type of steel to order, or how much, or how many strands, or something like that...

[captnhoy]

when thais realize that cheap is not good we might see some advances in their building. My wife asked me to build a fence at the new units on thew weekend so I measured them up and worked out what it would cost, she complained it was too much for a fence and that it didnt matter if it was not solid, I should use cheap materials. How in the hell can there be any safety when this is how all thais think, I ended up telling her I would not touch it if it was not to be done properly, she hasnt spoken to me since.

OOOO - Good Job! I'm gonna try that!

[sirchai]

Rest in Peace! Hope they'll never build a high speed train net here, using Chinese technology. Scary.......

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Bridge is a pedestrian bridge also used by motorbikes.

Design was probably to the same bridge standards using in the west based on the load of a fairly spread out load of pedestrians.

It probably carried many more people than designed for but the safety margin possibly covered that.

It also carried motorbikes. Much heavier than a pedestrian. Never designed for that so continual overload fatigue etc had its inevitible effect.

Far be it from me, but in the photo, can I point out the size of the stays?

I'm no engineer, but they look to be 2" approximately. They will be multi-strand galvanised or high tensile steel... perhaps?

There would need to be a very large number of pedestrians on the bridge to break those suckers, therefore this is some form of Southern Terrorist attack, or perhaps not... maybe they forgot which type of steel to order, or how much, or how many strands, or something like that...

There was the recent case where one of the old Hopewell rail system concrete pillars collapsed, because locals had stolen I believe either the supporting steel or some similar element. Anything metal is eligible for scavenging. Copper wiring is a favorite.

But it's all speculation. No one has any idea at present why the bridge collapsed. My bet is, during the recent refurbishing/repair, they replaced the steel cabling with pappaya strands.

[how241]

Sad - but Thai engineering at it´s best.

R.I.P.

To be fair, the Americans have had some major bridge collapses over the years. And then there was the famous wobbly bridge in London. On the whole, Thai engineering is as good as anywhere else.

+1

[maidu]

How closely have they inspected the break? Cables are mighty strong. It takes a heck of a lot to break one - even if its partly rusted. Sabotage?

[Ticketmaster]

Don't blame the engineers, for chrissakes; everybody knows it was the ghosts. Those damned ghosts cause a lot of bus crashes, too; failure to honk at the temples, that one.

[maidu]

Sad - but Thai engineering at it´s best.

R.I.P.

To be fair, the Americans have had some major bridge collapses over the years. And then there was the famous wobbly bridge in London. On the whole, Thai engineering is as good as anywhere else.

+1

I don't agree. Chiang Rai: large storm sewer drainage pipes were put in. When the 1st rains came, it was found they didn't drain well enough. Dug up, and replaced. Same happened a 2nd time, same route.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

It's true, bridges do collapse from time to time and place to place...

But not usually in the immediate aftermath of a supposed repair and restoration.

I'd say that phenomenon is more of a unique Thai one.

[song0674]

If Thai engineers were liable for prison terms nothing will get done.

Trying to impose a high standard of quality on Thai's by making them liable for poor work doesn't motivate them. They just won't do it if they think it's too hard or could go to prison. So nothing will get done.

That's what so frustrating with the Thai work ethic. The concept of having 'pride' in your work in absolutely a foreign concept to them. The Thai response is always "it's too hard", "you're being too fussy", "it's too much detail", etc

I know cause i've worked with the Thai's, dated Thai's girls and part of my family background is Thai.

The Thai's are ingenuous at being lazy, they can spend hours thinking of 'the easy way out' or to do the bare minimum instead of actually doing the work properly....

[brfsa2]

if only the word "Maintenance" would be in the Thai dictionary... things would be different.

[brfsa2]

Thai mentality is they wait till it's broken or not working anymore to fix, hardly anything is well maintained.

[EyesWideOpen]

It's true, bridges do collapse from time to time and place to place...

But not usually in the immediate aftermath of a supposed repair and restoration.

I'd say that phenomenon is more of a unique Thai one.

Yes I have to agree here. I have spent a lifetime fixing things. The first thing I look for when something is broken, is what happened immediately before the object was broken....In this case appears to be the " repairs ",

or it is simply a mind boggling coincidence...

[kimamey]

RIP to those killed.

Something don't understand. Surely a bicentenary bridge would celebrate something that happened 200 years ago not 120? Maybe I'm missing something. Like 80 years.

[skorchio]

I am sure the design of the bridge was fine. But I would not be so sure that the bridge was built to it's design, as is often the case in LOS. For a recent example note the debacle over the police stations.

If the bridge had recently undergone repairs, that is certainly another place to start looking. Perhaps the lynchpin was removed and sold for scrap. They like a bit of scrap theft in LOS .....

[johnlandy]

Just been repaired what a joke

"insofar as safety is concerned" Thailand is a joke. Another Bangladesh just waiting to happen

[thaibeachlovers]

Could be the weight of the paint applied over 30 years to cover the rust took the bridge over it's operating capacity.

Seriously the BBC just reported on TV......

The bridge was designed for pedestrians and small vehicles but it hadn't been particularly well maintained.

The news item I saw on BBC said it was built for pedestrians, nothing about small vehicles.

Is any public infrastructure maintained properly in LOS? Certainly isn't where I live- it's a disgraceful shambles.

[metisdead]

Inflammatory posts have been removed.

[geriatrickid]

Sad - but Thai engineering at it´s best.

R.I.P.

To be fair, the Americans have had some major bridge collapses over the years. And then there was the famous wobbly bridge in London. On the whole, Thai engineering is as good as anywhere else.

Many of the bigger projects in Thailand are the result of JVs involving Japanese, EU and Chinese Engineering firms. These projects also have problems. However, it is easy to say, ahh it's Thai that's why it collapsed. Until there is an investigation as to the cause, some people shouldn't speculate, but they will.

[Robby nz]

Just saw an item on Tele about it and they said utes and pickups had been using the bridge.

Looks like it had been grossly overloaded, so nothing to do with bad engineering or workmanship.

[conimex]

Just been repaired what a joke

I live in this village, most people I know, did not dare to use it anymore, even after the repairs, hope the villagers will choose a new "na yok tessaban" coming july !

[conimex]

Just saw an item on Tele about it and they said utes and pickups had been using the bridge.

Looks like it had been grossly overloaded, so nothing to do with bad engineering or workmanship.

it wasn't possible to use it by pickup's, you could hardly cross each other with 2 motorbikes !

[PoodMaiDai]

And they want to build a high speed train?

Good luck with that.

[PoodMaiDai]

Sad - but Thai engineering at it´s best.

R.I.P.

To be fair, the Americans have had some major bridge collapses over the years. And then there was the famous wobbly bridge in London. On the whole, Thai engineering is as good as anywhere else.

Many of the bigger projects in Thailand are the result of JVs involving Japanese, EU and Chinese Engineering firms. These projects also have problems. However, it is easy to say, ahh it's Thai that's why it collapsed. Until there is an investigation as to the cause, some people shouldn't speculate, but they will.

You can have all the engineering firms in the world working on a project, but as soon as you add greedy Thais to the equation who will skim anyway they can, be it a bag of concrete here or there, or the grade or amount of steel, then you are left with a bridge engineered by competent people but build by incompetent, greedy people. What Burmese or Lao worker is going to dare question his Thai hi-so boss when they are told to short cut something?

[happysanook]

Sad - but Thai engineering at it´s best.

R.I.P.

On the whole, Thai engineering is as good as anywhere else.