Any Legal Issues With Casually Helping A Friend With English For No Money?

[Jingthing]

Supposing an acquaintance (not a relationship thing, not even a close friend, not a Thai national) asks you to help them with English on a regular basis and you accept just to do a good deed. Not a formal teaching program. More like meetings to help with usage and pronunciation.

Are there any possible legal issues with this, work permit wise? Visa issues (for retirement visa/no work rule)?

Yes I understand don't call in to immigration about it. But people talk and word of any good deed would surely spread somewhat.

Edited May 1, 2013 by Jingthing

[utalkin2me]

I volunteered once, it was a group i was teaching. I guess, technically, I needed a work permit for it. So, yes, it is possible. I see the point actually too..... if anybody could just legally volunteer, anyone who ever got caught could just claim they were doing it as a volunteer.

[asdecas]

It's not "work" so no, no legal issues.

[Soutpeel]

Are there any possible legal issues with this, work permit wise? Visa issues (for retirement visa/no work rule)?

technically you would need a WP, but if no one says anything you should be ok, so I would be suggesting to your aquaintance to keep their mouth shut about what you are doing

[yoshiwara]

Not a problem if doing a class at home. Might be a problem if you were using some formal classroom environment.

The student should also avoid claiming any accreditation of the classes you are giving. That doesn't prevent the student entering any public exam like IELTS.

[Naam]

English... meetings to help with usage and pronunciation

yo sho will be put in the slammer JT. not for lack of a work permit but for the fraudulous claim "English".

[SantiSuk]

English... meetings to help with usage and pronunciation

yo sho will be put in the slammer JT. not for lack of a work permit but for the fraudulous claim "English".

Like it Naam!

But .... 'fraudulous'? Maybe we could invent a definition for this new word - how about

'Attempting to gain paid employment to teach English while not being a native of England'?

[Naam]

English... meetings to help with usage and pronunciation

yo sho will be put in the slammer JT. not for lack of a work permit but for the fraudulous claim "English".

Like it Naam!

But .... 'fraudulous'? Maybe we could invent a definition for this new word - how about

'Attempting to gain paid employment to teach English while not being a native of England'?

crime aggravated by specifying "pronunciation"

[davejones]

Are there any possible legal issues with this, work permit wise? Visa issues (for retirement visa/no work rule)?

technically you would need a WP, but if no one says anything you should be ok, so I would be suggesting to your aquaintance to keep their mouth shut about what you are doing

This is wrong. It's not work, so you don't need a work permit. I help friends all the time, and they help me. That's a normal part for socialising. It's certainly not work. Obviously there's a grey area between help and work, but stop overthinking these things. No-one cares if you help a friend with grammar. We'd all have to sit home alone frightened to talk to anyone if we needed a WP to talk to a friend.

Get some common sense into this debate. Immigration aren't out to get people for helping friends.

Jeez.

[utalkin2me]

He said helping out on a regular basis. Look, there is no problem here, hardly a potential problem.... but you do need a work permit to volunteer English lessons - technically. It makes sense too, as I said, anybody could just claim "i'm a volunteer" if teaching English, no matter if they were being paid or not. If you have regular lessons, in a lesson type setting (ie people can see you), you can potentially (however unlikely) have problems.

Edited May 2, 2013 by utalkin2me

[Kilgore Trout]

It's not "work" so no, no legal issues.

It is work as per the legal definition

[Kilgore Trout]

Are there any possible legal issues with this, work permit wise? Visa issues (for retirement visa/no work rule)?

technically you would need a WP, but if no one says anything you should be ok, so I would be suggesting to your aquaintance to keep their mouth shut about what you are doing

This is wrong. It's not work, so you don't need a work permit. I help friends all the time, and they help me. That's a normal part for socialising. It's certainly not work. Obviously there's a grey area between help and work, but stop overthinking these things. No-one cares if you help a friend with grammar. We'd all have to sit home alone frightened to talk to anyone if we needed a WP to talk to a friend.

Get some common sense into this debate. Immigration aren't out to get people for helping friends.

Jeez.

Talking to someone is consulting, by the legal definition it is absolutely 100% work

[Naam]

Are there any possible legal issues with this, work permit wise? Visa issues (for retirement visa/no work rule)?

technically you would need a WP, but if no one says anything you should be ok, so I would be suggesting to your aquaintance to keep their mouth shut about what you are doing

This is wrong. It's not work, so you don't need a work permit. I help friends all the time, and they help me. That's a normal part for socialising. It's certainly not work. Obviously there's a grey area between help and work, but stop overthinking these things. No-one cares if you help a friend with grammar. We'd all have to sit home alone frightened to talk to anyone if we needed a WP to talk to a friend.

Get some common sense into this debate. Immigration aren't out to get people for helping friends.

Jeez.

Talking to someone is consulting, by the legal definition it is absolutely 100% work

and so is brushing your teeth and having sex with your wife.

[Kilgore Trout]

Are there any possible legal issues with this, work permit wise? Visa issues (for retirement visa/no work rule)?

technically you would need a WP, but if no one says anything you should be ok, so I would be suggesting to your aquaintance to keep their mouth shut about what you are doing

This is wrong. It's not work, so you don't need a work permit. I help friends all the time, and they help me. That's a normal part for socialising. It's certainly not work. Obviously there's a grey area between help and work, but stop overthinking these things. No-one cares if you help a friend with grammar. We'd all have to sit home alone frightened to talk to anyone if we needed a WP to talk to a friend.

Get some common sense into this debate. Immigration aren't out to get people for helping friends.

Jeez.

Talking to someone is consulting, by the legal definition it is absolutely 100% work

and so is brushing your teeth and having sex with your wife.

I wouldnt go that far but i have heard of people having trouble with the police for painting their own (wifes really) house

Be smart and reasonable but dont be naive

[rixalex]

Are there any possible legal issues with this, work permit wise? Visa issues (for retirement visa/no work rule)?

technically you would need a WP, but if no one says anything you should be ok, so I would be suggesting to your aquaintance to keep their mouth shut about what you are doing

This is wrong. It's not work, so you don't need a work permit. I help friends all the time, and they help me. That's a normal part for socialising. It's certainly not work. Obviously there's a grey area between help and work, but stop overthinking these things. No-one cares if you help a friend with grammar. We'd all have to sit home alone frightened to talk to anyone if we needed a WP to talk to a friend.

Get some common sense into this debate. Immigration aren't out to get people for helping friends.

Jeez.

Talking to someone is consulting, by the legal definition it is absolutely 100% work

and so is brushing your teeth and having sex with your wife.

Having sex with another man's wife is one thing Naam, but brushing another man's teeth... that's some kinky sh1t you're in to.

[Soutpeel]

Are there any possible legal issues with this, work permit wise? Visa issues (for retirement visa/no work rule)?

technically you would need a WP, but if no one says anything you should be ok, so I would be suggesting to your aquaintance to keep their mouth shut about what you are doing

This is wrong. It's not work, so you don't need a work permit. I help friends all the time, and they help me. That's a normal part for socialising. It's certainly not work. Obviously there's a grey area between help and work, but stop overthinking these things. No-one cares if you help a friend with grammar. We'd all have to sit home alone frightened to talk to anyone if we needed a WP to talk to a friend.

Get some common sense into this debate. Immigration aren't out to get people for helping friends.

Jeez.

there technically is no grey area, the law as it stands is open to interpretation by Thai officials, not TV's finest...therefore if an official from the DOL decided what Jing was doing was volunteering his knowlege, then they could say he was working, whether your getting paid or not is irrelvant.

The official could also offer the interpretation that he is not working and doesnt need a WP, a bit like what your doing interpreting what the rules mean, how ever your opinion doesnt count.

At then end of the day..its the official concerned who decides what constitutes work and what doesnt, common sense doesnt come into it..

[Tatsujin]

Are there any possible legal issues with this, work permit wise? Visa issues (for retirement visa/no work rule)?

technically you would need a WP, but if no one says anything you should be ok, so I would be suggesting to your aquaintance to keep their mouth shut about what you are doing

This is wrong. It's not work, so you don't need a work permit. I help friends all the time, and they help me. That's a normal part for socialising. It's certainly not work. Obviously there's a grey area between help and work, but stop overthinking these things. No-one cares if you help a friend with grammar. We'd all have to sit home alone frightened to talk to anyone if we needed a WP to talk to a friend.

Get some common sense into this debate. Immigration aren't out to get people for helping friends.

Jeez.

Actually you are wrong. The Thai definition of "work" is all-encompassing and can be applied to "any" situation they desire it to.

What commonly happens here and what is the "law" are not one and the same. This would be classed as "work" by the Thai definition.

[JeremyBowskill]

skim read some of this thread and have been left wondering where I get a job having sex with someone else's wife and cleaning their teeth...... I will risk deportation for such a job, if it pays more than I have to pay to get the same service done in my house.

[rixalex]

skim read some of this thread and have been left wondering where I get a job having sex with someone else's wife and cleaning their teeth...... I will risk deportation for such a job, if it pays more than I have to pay to get the same service done in my house.

Mate, have a look in Thaivisa classifieds under the cuckolds (with teeth-brushing-servicing fetish) wanted section. You never know...

[kblaze]

Soutpeel is right that the whims of the Thai authorities vacillate, but c'mon lets come down to earth.

No Thai immigration official is going to spend their time tracking down a couple of guys talking about English. Its just not going to happen.

Don't give me any BS about "you don't know Thai officials, they are crazy".

They are, but its CRAZIER to say that a guy giving advice on English to another guy should get a Work Permit.

[kblaze]

He said helping out on a regular basis. Look, there is no problem here, hardly a potential problem.... but you do need a work permit to volunteer English lessons - technically. It makes sense too, as I said, anybody could just claim "i'm a volunteer" if teaching English, no matter if they were being paid or not. If you have regular lessons, in a lesson type setting (ie people can see you), you can potentially (however unlikely) have problems.

No, you can't "claim you are a volunteer" if you are being paid. The very definition of volunteer means "no payment"

Edited May 2, 2013 by kblaze

[Jingthing]

You know what "they" say: no good deed goes unpunished.

I'm hoping that isn't always true.

It does feel like we're in a bit of an insane situation that this question even needed to be asked.

[utalkin2me]

He said helping out on a regular basis. Look, there is no problem here, hardly a potential problem.... but you do need a work permit to volunteer English lessons - technically. It makes sense too, as I said, anybody could just claim "i'm a volunteer" if teaching English, no matter if they were being paid or not. If you have regular lessons, in a lesson type setting (ie people can see you), you can potentially (however unlikely) have problems.

No, you can't "claim you are a volunteer" if you are being paid. The very definition of volunteer means "no payment"

If op was in fact getting paid by his "acquaintance", you will have to enlighten me as to why he could not simply say "I am volunteering". I think you missed the point. Reread and re-comprehend if need be.

[Jingthing]

To be clear: the OP is about a strictly NON-PAID thing. Just a desire to do a mitzvah.

[utalkin2me]

Ok then, didn't mean to upset any sensibilities...

if Mr. X was getting paid by Mr. Thai, why in the world could Mr. X not claim to be his volunteer if he came under question? The words "I am volunteering" could come out of Mr. X's mouth, correct?

[kblaze]

He said helping out on a regular basis. Look, there is no problem here, hardly a potential problem.... but you do need a work permit to volunteer English lessons - technically. It makes sense too, as I said, anybody could just claim "i'm a volunteer" if teaching English, no matter if they were being paid or not. If you have regular lessons, in a lesson type setting (ie people can see you), you can potentially (however unlikely) have problems.

No, you can't "claim you are a volunteer" if you are being paid. The very definition of volunteer means "no payment"

If op was in fact getting paid by his "acquaintance", you will have to enlighten me as to why he could not simply say "I am volunteering". I think you missed the point. Reread and re-comprehend if need be.

Ah, I see what you mean, just claim "volunteer" if you don't have a money trail they could find.

Edited May 2, 2013 by kblaze

[Jingthing]

I don't think even volunteering is strictly legal sans work permit. Yes payment makes the work aspect more clear. As far as the OP, obviously volunteering in a public setting like a group class is another level from meeting someone privately and just going over some English usage basically as a personal favor. Isn't it?

[Tatsujin]

I don't think even volunteering is strictly legal sans work permit. Yes payment makes the work aspect more clear. As far as the OP, obviously volunteering in a public setting like a group class is another level from meeting someone privately and just going over some English usage basically as a personal favor. Isn't it?

If anyone is bothered to check, you do need a Work Permit to volunteer also. That's the law. Whether it's enforced or not is another question entirely.

To clarify, you need a Work Permit to do ANYTHING here that the Thai's "can" classify as work or that might take work away from a Thai, such as painting your own house, cleaning your car, or any other stupid little thing you can think of, you need a Work Permit.

Do they enforce these laws, rarely.

[utalkin2me]

The thing is, usually the people you are volunteering for have your back for obvious reasons.

As I said, I volunteered. I was told if I wanted to continue after about my first month, I should go through the proper channels in order to stay long term, and they'd get me a permit along with visa etc.

Anyway.... I think we are mostly in agreement.... use common sense, and I am sure you will be fine.

[Jingthing]

I think there are plenty of people, especially retirees who would be happy to do very visible and organized volunteer work but shy away from it due to the bizarre work permit and work restrictions here. Thailand loses and so do the potential volunteers.

Seriously, I think the Thai government should look into formally allowing retired expats to openly volunteer to do most anything.

Edited May 2, 2013 by Jingthing