Unknowing Children Paying The Price, How Can I Prevent That ?

[benalibina]

Try to make it short.

Married for 6 years.

3 children. 1 born before marriage, aged nearly 7, and 2 after marriage, aged nearly 6, twins.

2011 back to homecountry to start over again and left kids with wife, with intention that they would follow asap.

Due to various problems not succeeded in getting my family over. Economy, healthissues and some emotional stuff ( midlife ????)

All the time i trusted my wife regarding taking, on her way, good care of the kids.

End january shit hit the fan. Car fully financed, 350 k,and she left the kids and went to a touristdestination to make money ( selling perfume). By sheer luck i found this out between 5 and 7 am local time. Children taken care of by her older sister and daughter. Shocker !!

From my return in 2011 i have sent averagely 28.000 bth a month to my wife, that took away all my cashreserve. Living in the capital of a nothern province, where family lives not far away.

Came 2 months ago to thailand to take 1st the twins with me and tried, fck naively, to salvage the relationship. Well i was shocked to see that my children were on a clever way manipulated against me. When they came to close,my wife took them away. Was a hell for me !! At the end she did not agree that i could take them with me. I was there as well on borrowed money so was far from flexible.

I do not want that our children are being raised by lying, stealing and untrustworthy people. Wife, sister and rest of close familymembers

What are the chances if i put the custody matter in the court. Anyone advise ?

2ns have dual passport and son, only thai for now.

Thanks.

[Mario2008]

Was the first child born in Thailand and you got married in Thailand? If so you are the legal father of all 3 children.

You do not mention divorce, so right now you have custody over all 3 children together with the mother. It gives you the legal right to simply take the children away from the sister and let them stay with you.

When filling for divorce and custody over the children, you will get only get shared custody with the mother (unless the mother is incapable of taking care of the children or deemed a danger to the children). Since the mother is not taking personally care of the children, you would stand a very good chance of being appointed the prime care taker, with the mother having access to the children a few days a week or month.

The mother can ask the court to prevent the children from leaving Thailand.

Get a competent lawyer in family law and discuss your case with him. In the mean time document all things that you do and what the mother does. This kind of cases can get very ugly, but try to come to an understanding with the mother and to maintain a working relationship with her. That is in the interest of the children.

[benalibina]

Yes, all children are born in thailand. The problem now is that i stay in my homecountry and i want the kids eventually (asap) overhere. When i was in thailand in march my wife came back home, and is there till now. I have seen what my nearly 2 years of absence have done to her and consequently as well to the kids. I come there already 18 years. Lived in between there as well for 7 years. So maybe i should have known better but i never expected that she favoured the kids growing up by her family above me. Never. Now she knows that she is in control, probably advised by some cunning relatives. Kids are a means of trade apparantly and influence of the ignorants and selfish in her family is, as it seems, quite big. Children loose !

[Mario2008]

As said, you can get shared custody with the mother but the mother can ask a judge to order that the children will not be allowed to leave Thailand.

If the mother now takes car of the children herself, it limits your chances on being the prime care taker. Especially since she has taken car of the children for such a long time already. But that is something to discuss with a good lawyer.

What a judge will not agree to is that the children are brought up by her family. It is either her or you that takes car of the children, being the parents and legal guardians of the children..

[benalibina]

As i am skinned financially i can/will not transfer any money in the coming period. That is sad but it is the only way now to make her realise that they are better of overhere. All the 28.000 bth i have sent monthly has resulted in this. A local lawyer from the kids school advised me this as well. It is not my choice that kids overthere and not here. Sad sad and the one who does wrong wins. Kids loose without knowing it.

Will call before weekend a thai lawyer.

Any advise of a good 1 ?

[Swiss1960]

Sorry to say, but what are you moaning about?

- you were the one who initially left your family behind

- you were the one who was not able - for what ever reason - to reunite your family

- you are the one who now is not able to ensure the living of your family...

So what do you expect your wife to do? She does what every Thai mother does... she leaves the kids with her relatives and earns money to enable her living... so who do you want to blame for it? How do you expect her to tell her (your) kids "no, no, it's not daddy's fault, you still must love him, even though he left us without support..."???

And even more... how do you want to get custody for three kids and get them to your home country, if you are not even able to support them while they live in Thailand?

Wake up and think....

[MobileContent]

Yes, all children are born in thailand. The problem now is that i stay in my homecountry and i want the kids eventually (asap) overhere. When i was in thailand in march my wife came back home, and is there till now. I have seen what my nearly 2 years of absence have done to her and consequently as well to the kids. I come there already 18 years. Lived in between there as well for 7 years. So maybe i should have known better but i never expected that she favoured the kids growing up by her family above me. Never. Now she knows that she is in control, probably advised by some cunning relatives. Kids are a means of trade apparantly and influence of the ignorants and selfish in her family is, as it seems, quite big. Children loose !

May be she is worried that once you take the kids from her you will not pay her any money.

Also you do have to some able to support the kids, because they are your children.

Leaving for two years Thailand and leaving your kids behind could also mean you actually left the whole family.

Edited May 2, 2013 by MobileContent

[benalibina]

think that you are totally missing the point. Probably you do not have children yourself and you have not read properly what i wrote before. Ofcourse if i would not be able to provide for my family she needs to go do something in order to get money. I trusted her however and was never informed that she financed and financed the car till at the end there was nothing more to finance and that is why she left to sell perfume. NOTHING NOTHING I WAS TOLD ABOUT. A marriage is based on trust and i left the kids there under her guard. Yes yes i know it is Thailand !! She faltered on that, trust i mean, if i believed that the kids were better of there than here, i would not post it on this forum. I am the father of the kids. Lacking morals, maybe only western, ignorance, not willing to loose face and selfcenteredness makes the children pay the price at the end. Temple school, brought up by people who have no shame to lie, cheat and bullshit to their father that is the result. Put yourself in my position, would you accept that ?

[Swiss1960]

think that you are totally missing the point. Probably you do not have children yourself and you have not read properly what i wrote before. Ofcourse if i would not be able to provide for my family she needs to go do something in order to get money. I trusted her however and was never informed that she financed and financed the car till at the end there was nothing more to finance and that is why she left to sell perfume. NOTHING NOTHING I WAS TOLD ABOUT. A marriage is based on trust and i left the kids there under her guard. Yes yes i know it is Thailand !! She faltered on that, trust i mean, if i believed that the kids were better of there than here, i would not post it on this forum. I am the father of the kids. Lacking morals, maybe only western, ignorance, not willing to loose face and selfcenteredness makes the children pay the price at the end. Temple school, brought up by people who have no shame to lie, cheat and bullshit to their father that is the result. Put yourself in my position, would you accept that ?

Did it ever cross your mind that your WIFE might feel and think the exact same about you, that you are not living up to the promises you made during marriage and when you went back to your home country in 2011? Did you ever think about the fact that she might feel cheated and that she is afraid of her future and does not trust YOU any more and thus has decided to take her fate in her own hands and NOT tell you, because she does not have any confidence in you?

[benalibina]

That is a good 1. If what you state is correct than consider following;

She should have told me during the time or when i left 2 years ago. On that way we could have talked about what to do with the children.

She would have used the money of the car, finance over finance, for something good. Now i have only heard that the financemoney has been used for filling financial gaps. Note that every month i have sent averagely 28.000 bth for living there. For the money she borrowed she has nothing to show for.

By what you write it is ok in a marriage, with children involved, to lie, deceive and play with the childrens future. I never went back there because of trust in her and my main responsabillity was to make sure of the monthly payments. The car was always the ticket to get everybody overhere.

Do not think that i not feel responsible as well. My visit there however has learned me a lot more about family influences and the way how they perceive children as a means of trade.

[saakura]

From all that you have said, looks to me that you are in the wrong over here. And we havent heard her side of the story. You left her alone for 2yrs with 3 children to raise. And that too very young children, twins too. Do you realise how difficult it would have been for the mother? Just sending some money each month is not the end of your responsibility. Sorry but all my sympathy is for the mother.

[fletchsmile]

Sounds like you've both made a few mistakes even though intentions may have been good.

A custody battle sounds like it could be messy. Can't see how you would "win" a court battle over here, as even if you got them back west, you'd probably struggle to work and look after them. It would also be expensive back home.

Have you managed to sit down with you and your wife alone to talk things through? That's something worth trying to do again. Forget the accusations and who's right and wrong and focus on how to move forward. Both parties could claim to be victims in their own way, as things haven't worked out as planned.

Remember in your discussions that Thais often don't take criticism very well or confrontation, so you'll get nowhere if looking for an apology and seeing yourself as a victim.

THB 28,000 a month seems quite a lot to send. Ask her how much she needs, and then to explain what for and where it's been going, rather than jump straight into where it's gone, and why she needs so much, - i.e in a constructive way and trying to help - breaking down where the money goes. Sounds like they have money management issues. Could also be the family putting pressure on her. It may not be your wife's fault. So gently find out the cause of the money problems rather than going direct to blaming

Best wishes

Fletch

Edited May 2, 2013 by fletchsmile

[benalibina]

I never left the children overthere and go on with my life overhere and only to support her from distance to become a holidayfather. Never !. If she would have told me that it was all getting too much overthere for her than i would have known. Based on that we could have decided what to do next. I missed them 24/7 and i would have loved to get them overhere. I believed, based upon the situation, that i did a good thing by leaving them overthere all the time, eventhough it hurted me 24/7. If i would have known everything before, i would have acted differently. I fully realize that there are 2 sides of the story. Whatever i write is the truth however and with the intention of what is the best for the kids. I have been there recently with the intention of getting it all. I have seen unfortunately that my children have been manipulated on such a way that they do not want to know much about me and everytime they came to close to me she took them away. Her family taking care of them is obviously better than me. But i am their father !

[benalibina]

28.000 is indeed quite a lot. All i have heard in march is that the debt of over 350 k she has built up was for filling gaps. You correct, we both made mistakes. The money issue is not the 1 i really pissed of about. The fact is that marriage and having responsabillity over children together,needs honesty and openness to each other. This to think what is best for them, now and future. I feel now that i have been played at and the descision to leave the children with her sister and go work elsewhere left me totally out of the picture. This while i am the father and that she knows i love them and would want nothing more in my life to take care of them. Preferably with her. Family issues play a role as well i suppose. I have my thoughts about that. Only follow the money, and security, gave me a clou. Who benefits ? Normally talking is not possible anymore on her side. Loosing face, therefore not being able to tell the truth, and family interests prevent her from that i think. So, if i do nothing i lost the children !

[billd766]

You admit that you cannot support your children here in Thailand but you want to take them from all the people they know and trust who actually DO help and support them.

How will you support the children back in the west?

I would assume that they nosrly speak Thai, do you?

Who will look after them in your country, take them to school, tend to them, feed them, read to them, while you are working, and incidentally how will you be able to pay for all this?

You, and only you, left them in Thailand for over 2 years.

Never mind your wife, how do you think the children feel?

[benalibina]

You admit that you cannot support your children here in Thailand but you want to take them from all the people they know and trust who actually DO help and support them. How will you support the children back in the west? I would assume that they nosrly speak Thai, do you? Who will look after them in your country, take them to school, tend to them, feed them, read to them, while you are working, and incidentally how will you be able to pay for all this? You, and only you, left them in Thailand for over 2 years. Never mind your wife, how do you think the children feel?

Yes i speak thai.

Yes i was not there nearly 2 years.

Yes i am the father.

Yes i have been lied at.

Yes my children are now being raised by bad people with different or no morals.

Yes children easily adapt in a new life, have seen that there.

Yes it is very difficult to weigh the pros and cons.

You better read correctly all what i wrote. Correctly.

Than come back.

Read good.

[CWMcMurray]

Gonna be pretty hard for you to do anything from overseas.

Can you come back to Thailand to live and work? From above, understand that things are not going great, work wise, as funds are pretty tight.

This may be the best option.

Once in Thailand, you can see the kids more often and pursue getting custody (through the courts if needed).

Then you can go from there.

[benalibina]

Gonna be pretty hard for you to do anything from overseas. Can you come back to Thailand to live and work? From above, understand that things are not going great, work wise, as funds are pretty tight. This may be the best option. Once in Thailand, you can see the kids more often and pursue getting custody (through the courts if needed). Then you can go from there.

No, i do not want to go back there. Only eventually to pick up the children. They are now back in the village, wife is skinned totally and over halfway to the end. Selfdestruction, taking, in my opinion the kids with her. If all what i know, and think, is true, than she will have to go to ...... and make money. She has misused my trust last couple of years. Lied, cheated and stole our familyfuture. I know that i have a role in this as well. It started when i went back to my homecountry. Till now i do not know for what she has used the financemoney really for. Been told that it was for filling financial gaps only. This while i sent avergely 27-28.000 bth a month. Hard for me to believe it all. All the blame on the current situation, in her opinion, lies by me. All ! Nobody in her family apparently has thought about future and best interest of the children. I am fully aware that a safetynet, as it is overthere, is important as well. Nothing s perfect though ! To find the way forward for mainly the kids needs 2 people. There aint, because of ignorance, fear and the unwillingness to think. A lawyer, who i called yest, told me that in court it depends on the children with whom they want to stay and it not helps that i am a foreigner as well. So i am <deleted> and they, unknowingly, are as well. All i hear now is that maybe the kids can come to my country when they are between 12 and 17. She says this without any bath to spent now. The lawyer strongly advised me as well not to sent anymore money and than she will contact you later. Sad, sad !!

[Swiss1960]

Op, you can tell me that it's none of my business. But what I fail to see so far is how you will take responsibility for three kids, should you win a custody battle (which is very much unlikely while you don't stay in Thailand. So enlighten me, if you like:

- do the kids speak the language of the country you want to bring them in?

- do you have the financial means to take care of three kids? You write that you are skinned and that 28'000 Baht is a problem... do you realize how much kids will cost when living with you?

- do you have anybody to take care of the kids while you are at work? Do the kids know that person or ANYbody in your current living area?

- did you think about your kids school when they would be living with you?

Or asked differently: Can you prove to a court - without any doubt - that your kids would be better off and better cared for when taken out of the environment they are currently used to be in?

[benalibina]

Op, you can tell me that it's none of my business. But what I fail to see so far is how you will take responsibility for three kids, should you win a custody battle (which is very much unlikely while you don't stay in Thailand. So enlighten me, if you like:- do the kids speak the language of the country you want to bring them in?- do you have the financial means to take care of three kids? You write that you are skinned and that 28'000 Baht is a problem... do you realize how much kids will cost when living with you?- do you have anybody to take care of the kids while you are at work? Do the kids know that person or ANYbody in your current living area?- did you think about your kids school when they would be living with you?Or asked differently: Can you prove to a court - without any doubt - that your kids would be better off and better cared for when taken out of the environment they are currently used to be in?

Yes, it is none of your business but i will reply anyway.

First of all you miss the point that i always, naively on heinsight, trusted my wife. That trust has been broken as i have never never been informed about the unneccesarry height of the carloans, moneymanagement not there, why i still do not know 100% and the fact that she went to phuket without informing me. In all my shambolic life overhere the last 20 months i trusted her always in that. I could have taken the kids earlier overhere but schoolyear had to be finished there. Stability for them and descency, i think at least, on my part. The car has a value and i arranged somebody to guarantee for her to come with the kids after schoolyear to holland. Carsale would bring about 275.000 bth in cash i thought after repaying a debt on it of around 100 k i thought. When i was there in march total financeproblem was 355 k if car was sold immediately. Heard initially over to 200 k, later around 275 k but it was 355 k when i saw the financepaper. I think i am an honest man who has paid for his mistakes though. If we talking about raising kids, i can do that a lot better than her. She is the better carer though. I think it is not good for the kids to be raised by someone(s) who lies, cheat and steal their future, anywhere in the world. Would like to add as well ignorance, selfish, selfcentered, unwillingness to think and a total lack of empathy. Would like to add no respect to me who has paid for everything there whole upbringing and apparantly who has been treated as an atm. I have done my utmost to keep the family together. Even there in march where i almost lost my dignity because of it.

The situation now is that her refusal has led that all of them live 'ban og' at her mothers house full of mosquitos and leaking roof. Temple school, no money to spent for anything. But they know everybody overthere. Luug koh taan ! This is not my choice. I came there to clear the problem and the chance to stay as a family together overhere this year. I came for the good thing. But ignorance, fear and familyinfluences ( selfinterest) prevented that. Children easily adapt in a new situation in a new country. They are very flexible. I speak descent enough thai as well to speak with them. The other issues you mention are irrelevant because a good school is easy to find within 1 km from where i live. The rest is based upon the situation than with priority given to the childrensinterest. In a court i, unknowingly the kids as well, will loose because they decide. This unless if i would have money, lived there and was prepared for a messy courtcase. So if you are single and looking for an irresponsible woman with 4 kids ( 1 thai as well ) and love to raise children on the ignorant countryside thai way, i am happy to provide you with her current livingplace and telnr !

[Swiss1960]

So benalibina, the only thing you write above is "I am a better person than my wife, so I can raise the kids better" and you tell me that your financial situation and the care for your kids when the live with you are irrelevant... then I tell you that you are irresponsible, since you ignore these very important points... and I speak as a (divorced) father of two (now grown up) kids. From all your posts, it's about you being cheated and financially stripped... and I can't help the thought that trying to take the kids with you is kind of a revenge also...

Raising kids means high responsibility... maybe your wife does not show that responsibility, I might even agree partially from what you write... but from what you write, they are in a environment where they are monitored (by the familiy of your wife... which is pretty normal in Thailand...), they go to school (even if it is a temple school), they get food, have friends etc. etc.

Raising kids means high responsibility... are you fit for that responsibility? Emotianally, stability in your job and living, care for your kids when you are at work, finanical means for food and clothes and school and holiday and and and... Are you, OP?

[eezergood]

Good luck man, hope it works out for all of you

[benalibina]

So benalibina, the only thing you write above is "I am a better person than my wife, so I can raise the kids better" and you tell me that your financial situation and the care for your kids when the live with you are irrelevant... then I tell you that you are irresponsible, since you ignore these very important points... and I speak as a (divorced) father of two (now grown up) kids. From all your posts, it's about you being cheated and financially stripped... and I can't help the thought that trying to take the kids with you is kind of a revenge also... Raising kids means high responsibility... maybe your wife does not show that responsibility, I might even agree partially from what you write... but from what you write, they are in a environment where they are monitored (by the familiy of your wife... which is pretty normal in Thailand...), they go to school (even if it is a temple school), they get food, have friends etc. etc. Raising kids means high responsibility... are you fit for that responsibility? Emotianally, stability in your job and living, care for your kids when you are at work, finanical means for food and clothes and school and holiday and and and... Are you, OP?

Revenge is for the nerds ! I really wonder how you come to that conclusion. I have made my points clear why i am more fit as a parent to raise them. No need to mention anymore about that. I fully realize that the environment of my wife is safe for the children. She is however not capable on anyway to provide stabillity for the children. In less than 2 years time they have lived in 5 different houses and she left them. For the children it is about the father and mother and not the rest of hers or mine family.

My aim has always been, still is !!!??? to stay as a family together, whereever. Ofcourse money is very important but it is not the only thing that matters in raising kids. You ask if i am up to the responsabillity. I am always the better option for them. Always ! All the things you refer to my wife alone surely cannot offer. I think indeed that i am a better person than her based upon my own standards of live. Before the shit hit the fan, i was not so sure about it. I truly believe that she really never wanted to be in this situation but that her own character, culture and upbringing make her go downhill and taking the children on a important way with her. Would you stand aside and say chokdee and let it all go ?

Now would you mr wiseguy ?