Proof Of Medical Insurance Proposed For 1 Year Visa

[Toscano]

A Group of us were talking to the British Ambassador at Khon Kaen the other day . His thinking on the subject of Ex Pat. medical insurance was along the lines that everyone living in Thailand who didn't have a medical insurance , might pay BT1000 a month , BT12,000 a year to have a health insurance .

With the number of foreigners living in Thailand that would be a sizeable sum . He said the major problem of foreigners needing medical asistance or hospitalization was pricipally from Holiday visitors , motor cycle accidents etc. Some foreign residents have a BT30 card , my wife is a state school teacher and I believe I am covered by her medical insurance , as a family member .

[spermwhale]

That will cover instances when the medical costs are within the value of the bond. However, a contact of mine was quoted 1m baht for balloon surgery a few years ago. What happens once the value of the bond is exhausted or doesn't cover the medical costs?

then you fund the short fall, and if you exhaust the bond, you pay another THB 800k in on your annual renewal

The office location doesn't matter. I never set foot in LMG's office when I signed up for coverage five years ago. I did it all by email.

Easy-peezy japaneezeeee

[h5kaf]

What about the farangs over 65 or with pre existing conditions. They couldn't get health insurance. Would this mean they can't get visas as well?

Yes - you have got it in one. In Europe, Oz and the USA once you are over 65/70 you are virtually uninsurable even without pre-existing conditions. In the very few instances where insurance is offered there are comprehensive exclusions and a premium almost the size of the cost of a major hospital stay.

Perhaps Thailand will tailor a special deal for all old foreigners - but don't hold your breath.

Again a reminder - Insurance companies are essentially about collecting premiums not about paying out claims, if they can avoid them.

[Colabamumbai]

Make your employer pay it as part of the contract when and if it does happen....

[Jingthing]

Make your employer pay it as part of the contract when and if it does happen....

That should be a cinch for retired expats legally banned from working. Amazing expats!

[tigermonkey]

I'm wondering how all these new government rumblings about compulsory medical insurance mesh with the 'one tourist visa' process which has already begun. You can already get one visa for Cambodia/Thailand at a Cambodian Embassy, and theoretically will be able to get a visa for all five Mekong Collective nations within 2 years. This could start to get very complicated - Thai insurance which is valid in Vietnam ? Maybe, insurance from Lao will be cheaper !

[ignis]

How can you possibly "pay up front" when the doctors may not even know what treatment you'll need, how long you'll be a guest for and all the other aspects. Try engaging brain before posting!

Some do........... had to go to hospital, 2:30 am, had no idea there was a government hospital open, 2 near me are NOT open at night, so went to a Private one,

They called a Doctor, demanded 70,000 baht as a deposit..Booked me in, and got me ready as it were, room gown etc and then the Dr Arrived, OK was taken directly to have the Op..

Since,been a few times to a local Government Hospital very good service and care, At time of leaving comes a bill, pay the money [fraction of the price] and leave. one thing I did like was at night I could sleep, they did not keep waking me up as they did every 2 hours in the Private Hospital.

single room in the government hospital is 1/2 the price of a 6 bed ward in the Private hospital..

[tigermonkey]

Make your employer pay it as part of the contract when and if it does happen....

This already exists. If you employ migrant workers who are not eligible for Social Security, you are required to provide your employess with medical coverage. If your employees are eligble for and registered with Social Security, they have medical cover.

[winstonc]

im 49 uninsured on a budget which will allow me to stay for ,hopefully ever, im now a concerned little piggy,,

[Jingthing]

As Sheryl noted there are some government hospital costs.

But the Thai government would be wise to balance those costs versus the economic BENEFITS of mass tourism and also retired expats.

A study in the Philippines showed that each retired expat creates TEN local jobs.

For benefits, there are always SOME costs.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

What about the farangs over 65 or with pre existing conditions. They couldn't get health insurance. Would this mean they can't get visas as well?

Yes - you have got it in one. In Europe, Oz and the USA once you are over 65/70 you are virtually uninsurable even without pre-existing conditions. In the very few instances where insurance is offered there are comprehensive exclusions and a premium almost the size of the cost of a major hospital stay.

Perhaps Thailand will tailor a special deal for all old foreigners - but don't hold your breath.

Again a reminder - Insurance companies are essentially about collecting premiums not about paying out claims, if they can avoid them.

In my experience, the Thai insurers often don't have any problem writing policies for many people with pre-existing conditions.

They simply require your past medical history and then automatically exclude from their coverage anything that you'd had prior, potentially ongoing problems with.

Of course, I'm guessing that could vary with the severity of the prior medical problem.

[JLCrab]

To keep it brief, I took out a policy with an insurer in Thailand which excluded coverage for my knee for the first 2 years as I had surgery in the USA within 5 years of application. 2 years after that, a doctor at one the insurer's network hospital said I (again) required surgery. The company paid for the surgery equal to my first 3 years' premium all except for 2 coca-colas from the mini-bar.

Edited May 5, 2013 by JLCrab

[BB1955]

I would love to be able to buy into Thai social security . I have a policy now I pay for , I would much rather see my money going to the government and them providing my treatment... One a second note I think its also unfair that myself being an american have paid into medicare for many many years. But becasue I have chosen to live outside the US its useless to me .....

Gimmie my money back then ... Fat chance

[JLCrab]

From a fellow American, the operative word above: CHOSEN

[planetdweller]

Someone will be available to take a payment to validate the reqt and look the other way IF it ever comes to this being a reqt...

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

To keep it brief, I took out a policy with an insurer in Thailand which excluded coverage for my knee for the first 2 years as I had surgery in the USA within 5 years of application. 2 years after that, a doctor at one the insurer's network hospital said I (again) required surgery. The company paid for the surgery equal to my first 3 years' premium all except for 2 coca-colas from the mini-bar.

JL raises a good point:

Depending on the Thai insurer, if you have something that's been excluded and you then have at least two years with no symptoms and no related treatment, you can often apply to have the exclusion lifted. Of course, that doesn't help much for folks who have some variety of chronic condition. But for one time things, it can be helpful.

[bangkokpoppys]

this whole post sounds a lot like a fear campaign for gathering sales in expat insurance policies...

[Jingthing]

You'd be surprised how many people over 50 have lifetime chronic conditions. Having treated high blood pressure, massively common, basically excludes you from coverage for ANYTHING to do with the heart including strokes.

[ThaiTony2]

For all the foreigners with your so called "good ideas", why not give up your retirement visa and get a business visa and work permit and start working for Thailand's government? Do you really think Thailand wants to hear your ideas? I don't think so...They will do what's best for them and not for you. Thailand is slowly sucking you dry and taking your money and then someday youl will have none.

[JLCrab]

To keep it brief, I took out a policy with an insurer in Thailand which excluded coverage for my knee for the first 2 years as I had surgery in the USA within 5 years of application. 2 years after that, a doctor at one the insurer's network hospital said I (again) required surgery. The company paid for the surgery equal to my first 3 years' premium all except for 2 coca-colas from the mini-bar.

JL raises a good point:

Depending on the Thai insurer, if you have something that's been excluded and you then have at least two years with no symptoms and no related treatment, you can often apply to have the exclusion lifted. Of course, that doesn't help much for folks who have some variety of chronic condition. But for one time things, it can be helpful.

But that doesn't mean (as some have suggested) that if you fail to disclose a pre-existing condition on your application and that condition goes undetected by the insurer for 2 years, that after 2 years they are obligated to cover the condition. You committed fraud on the application so the policy is immediately null & void.

[Jingthing]

...

Thailand is slowly sucking you dry and taking your money and then someday youl will have none.

I wish I knew why I find such DARK THOUGHTS so darned appealing!

[JLCrab]

JT -- Why such dark thoughts? There is a high prevalence on Thaivisa of what may be what DSM IV considers as Narcissistic Personality Disorder

Characterizing symptoms of narcissistic personality disorder:

• - has a grandiose feeling of self-importance in one or more areas in life
• - has unusually high confidence in one or more fields, bordering with arrogant or arrogant
• - fears of being “normal” or like everybody else, will get frustrated or/and argue to death to prove that he/she is special & different if challenged
• - belittles other people’s problems & concerns, feels like their worries are unimportant & stupid
• etc...

On ThaiVisa they use such phrases as "I feel sorry for you" or "I pity you" or they call you a d-ckh-ad or some other such school boy terminology. or "Grow some ..."

Edited May 5, 2013 by JLCrab

[JLCrab]

As noted by others above, a US citizen age 65 or older on the Medicare program would not be covered anywhere outside the USA including Germany except if they have coverage for short term travel ex-USA.

[david555]

How can I get a health insurance for my 83 years old father?

Impossible!

As a retired public servant he is well insured back home in Germany via the German government insurance program! Germany has international agreement with all EU countries, the US and some other countries, to cover any medical services if my father would stay in any of such countries!

Unfortunately Thailand does not have such an agreement with Germany, despite the quality of medical service in Thailand is very high and the costs of services much lower than in Germany. To have such an agreement would be a win win situation for all, for the Thai health industry, for the German public insurance system and for the retirees as they can live in freedom and in a healthy climate. In our case, my father can stay here with us, spend his last years with his family and will be sure someone will take care for him. Back in Germany nobody will take care for him, there is no more family left, he would live and die alone!

Here is the initiative from the Thai health authorities and from the German Ambassador required to get such agreement passed between this two countries.

I think retirees from several other nations will may find a similar situation!

Regards, Uwe

Same situation for me , i am insured by my Gov . insurrance all over Europe countrys like your father , outside Europe i must pay first hospitalisation and claim back later with documents , this counts for only 3 months hospitalisation , but includes a repatriation to home country if needed..... but does not count no more if you leave officially your Home countrys adres , you may not unsubscribe home country's adres

Edited May 5, 2013 by david555

[nontabury]

I expect that it will happen sooner or later as it is a real problem for the Thai public health system. The private hospitals can toss out those who can't pay but the government facilities cannot, and it is a real drain on their already overstretched resources. Unlike Thais, they do not receive anything from the government budget to offset the cost of caring for farang.

However would likely have a self-insure option i.e. either X $/income and proof of insurance OR a larger amt of $.

If we're lucky the requirement would spark the creation of a scheme to provide a minimum level of insurance to foreign retirees. Since as noted, a major problem is that people who retire here are often unable to obtain private insurance.

It would actually not be that hard to do through the existing government Social Security system. Properly constructed it could compensate the government hospitals adequately and bring in revenue to the SS system will still being a good deal for expats.

Lets get real, we are talking peanuts. Phuket is one of the changwats with a high concentration of Farang's, yet there was a thread on TV only a few months ago that said the total cost for treating farangs in Phuket was approx 4 million baht. that is about £85,000

This figure must be insignificant set aside the income from farangs in Phuket. And this is without going into the cost to the NHS of treating Thais who are in the UK .

[up2me4now]

When I started this thread I was always going to be amused by where it would lead.

My conclusion is: No one has the right to expect something free in a foriegn country anywhere in the world.

If a person regardless of age is not insureable then that person should not be allowed to live outside his country of origin.

There is no plausable excuse against this. The consequences are too great to risk it. Freedom of choice comes with a price.

[Jingthing]

When I started this thread I was always going to be amused by where it would lead.

My conclusion is: No one has the right to expect something free in a foriegn country anywhere in the world.

If a person regardless of age is not insureable then that person should not be allowed to live outside his country of origin.

There is no plausable excuse against this. The consequences are too great to risk it. Freedom of choice comes with a price.

Or maybe they should just know what they've gotten themselves into by FREE WILL CHOICE, and accept adult responsibility for the consequences of the risks taken, NOT expecting anything free from Thailand. That's ACTUALLY what's happening in MOST cases. You're acting like Thailand gives much in cases like this. They DO NOT and most expats know that. I can't imagine any long term expat here being so deluded as to thinking Thailand is going to be a nanny state to them.

Edited May 5, 2013 by Jingthing

[david555]

When I started this thread I was always going to be amused by where it would lead.

My conclusion is: No one has the right to expect something free in a foriegn country anywhere in the world.

If a person regardless of age is not insureable then that person should not be allowed to live outside his country of origin.

There is no plausable excuse against this. The consequences are too great to risk it. Freedom of choice comes with a price.

By your statement a very big part would be have to leave Europe then ..... , not my opinion , but following yours

[nontabury]

That's the problem. A large percentage of people are uninsurable by private insurance policies. If the Thai government wants to require this AND be fair (they are not required to be fair of course) they will find a way to either offer some kind of policy to ALL including the uninsurable OR as Malaysia does proof of application and DENIAL will justify an EXEMPTION from the requirement.

Because of these issues, causing a mass exodus and indeed bad international publicity that long time retirees will be booted out and forced to liquidate assets such as real estate under duress, that I don't think Thailand will ACTUALLY do this. They could solve this with the Malaysia style exemption for proven insurance REJECTION, but that seems against the general inflexible nature of Thai immigration rules.

Of course, they could just do something really stupid and rash (it happens sometimes), not even understanding the mass exodus and bad international publicity they would be creating by rashly passing such a rule without an offer of coverage for ALL applicants or a rejection exemption exception.

One way to go, ant they have done this with other new immigration rules, is to grandfather in those already on their "retirement" visa extensions and enforce the new rule for all new applications. Then at least uninsured or indigent faring medical costs would be limited to only those geezers currently retired in Thailand and who cant afford their own care. New applicants would be on notice that if/when they could no longer obtain private medical insurance (or maybe meet some increased bank account threshold) that their retirement visa would not be renewed.

Why should some dead beat be grandfathered in. In the end if you cannot afford basic expenses and medical insurace is a basic expense why should you be allowed to stay. Theree are too many who come here with the bare amount of money to live and then would expect poor thais to foot their bill in a government hospital. This affects all retirees here in one way or the other, I do not have a lot of sympathy for dead beat adults who were losers back home and then come to Thailand as a loser

You seem a very nice person (joke). I personally was not a loser in my own country, far from it, I can afford to pay privately if the need arises, but I also believe in ,"There but for the grace of god,go I."

[Jingthing]

It seems many expats are our own worse enemies.

It is fortunate I think that Thais are in charge of immigration policies, because if many of these hostile to other expats were in charge, I'm sure the policies would be much less compassionate.

Not that the current policies are perfect.

They are not.

Again I would welcome an insurance requirement as long as accompanied with some compassionate options:

-- Creation of a BUY IN plan so that all would be able to comply (as is done in some other popular retirement destination nations)

-- An exemption for proof of a rejected application (less desirable) as in the Malaysia program

Edited May 5, 2013 by Jingthing