Social Security Rejected And Refunded

[2unique]

The Social Security Office has rejected my application due to the fact I am an Employer not an Employee.

I just started the Thai company (of my HK company) in October and took over as MD in December and aquired my work permit. Part of the criteria for extension of stay etc is Income statements, Social Security and VAT for 4 staff plus my own Social Security receipts.

First of all I was fined for not having paid social security, which they said I can't have (odd in itself) then I was given a temporary number which I've just received notice that as a 49% shareholder I won't be allowed to register for Social Security and as regards work permit and non-B to take it up with Immigration...

Immigration said take it up with SSO who subsequently referred me to Dept of Labour who - yup you guessed it said speak to Immigration.

I'm getting a complete run around as no one wishes to deal with this and to top it all I'm being told by my accountant I don't need to register but can opt out but I'm being told by the company that set up my office that I do need it and have to keep persevering to push this through!

I am doing this through the Nakhom Pathom office who seem to be pretty clueless and not at all in sync with what I'm told the procedure is in Bangkok.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

[commande]

Best advise I can provide you as a friend of mine went through similar issues that your having is get a lawyer. Let them handle it, yes you will pay some money but the headache is not worth it. They can do just about everything for you and straighten most things out in short order.

[digitalchromakey]

Correct if you are registered as a Director/Shareholder of a Thai Company then you are excluded from any entitlement to Social Insurance as you are considered sufficiently 'wealthy' such that you can afford to pay for your own hospital care, etc.

As a consequence you cannot register for Social Insurance and yes this does provide a conflict as regards 777/2551 Case 2.1 extensions on the basis of Working in the Kingdom of Thailand where evidence of Social Insurance Contributions is required.

Personally I extend on the basis of a Thai Spouse with Income and am not required to produce Social Insurance documents, so I haven't been caught with this particular conundrum.

Suggest you get Social to give you a letter for Immigration explain that as a director/shareholder of your company you are not able to register for Social Insurance and take that to immigration with all the rest of the papers when you apply to extend.

As regards the fine for non registration for social insurance - you were ripped off - did they give you a receipt? If so take it back and demand a refund, otherwise put it down to experience.

Just a thought, the company itself is required to make an annual contribution for Social every January which is based on a percentage of the monthly salaries (mimum wage or above) of your employees, so it could be worth taking this payment form with you as it may well be acceptable to immigration as your Social Insurance 'contribution'.

Last but not least point - you cannot get a 2.1 extension until your company is >2 years old as there is a requirement to produce 2x sets of annual accounting - not possible for a new start up; so it looks like you will be on Non 'B' Multiples with 90 day border runs for the next 2x years unless you have another basis for extension.

[Maestro]

First of all I was fined for not having paid social security, which they said I can't have (odd in itself) then I was given a temporary number which I've just received notice that as a 49% shareholder I won't be allowed to register for Social Security and as regards work permit and non-B to take it up with Immigration...

Is there perhaps a requirement for a company to register with SSO within a certain time after the company registration even if the company is at this time not yet assessable for contributions?

[BrianCR]

When they first started the social security system every member of the Company had to join, including me (as the Managing Director). I paid 750 baht per month (the maximum) and when I retired I got a lump sum back from them (had a choice of a monthly pension or the lump sum)

[samran]

First of all I was fined for not having paid social security, which they said I can't have (odd in itself) then I was given a temporary number which I've just received notice that as a 49% shareholder I won't be allowed to register for Social Security and as regards work permit and non-B to take it up with Immigration...

Is there perhaps a requirement for a company to register with SSO within a certain time after the company registration even if the company is at this time not yet assessable for contributions?

My company isn't registered with the SSO...but I don't have any employees though.

[digitalchromakey]

When they first started the social security system every member of the Company had to join, including me (as the Managing Director). I paid 750 baht per month (the maximum) and when I retired I got a lump sum back from them (had a choice of a monthly pension or the lump sum)

Yes indeed, it used to be the case that all could register, but as of a few years ago Social stopped registration/entitlement for Director Shareholders (they even de-registered some in my area and refunded their contributions).

I have a card from way back when I was employed and have asked about re-registering on numerous occasions at my local Social Security Office and they always give the same reply 'No - cannot' - It's also the same for my wife who is a Thai Director Shareholder in our company and is also excluded from any benefit/state health care provision.

It makes sense as regards redundancy/unemployment benefit as one could 'fire' one's self - but the exclusion from state health care has no logic and really sucks.

[2unique]

When they first started the social security system every member of the Company had to join, including me (as the Managing Director). I paid 750 baht per month (the maximum) and when I retired I got a lump sum back from them (had a choice of a monthly pension or the lump sum)

Yes indeed, it used to be the case that all could register, but as of a few years ago Social stopped registration/entitlement for Director Shareholders (they even de-registered some in my area and refunded their contributions).

I have a card from way back when I was employed and have asked about re-registering on numerous occasions at my local Social Security Office and they always give the same reply 'No - cannot' - It's also the same for my wife who is a Thai Director Shareholder in our company and is also excluded from any benefit/state health care provision.

It makes sense as regards redundancy/unemployment benefit as one could 'fire' one's self - but the exclusion from state health care has no logic and really sucks.

So what documentation would one use for extension of stay, extension of work permit etc...?

[digitalchromakey]

When they first started the social security system every member of the Company had to join, including me (as the Managing Director). I paid 750 baht per month (the maximum) and when I retired I got a lump sum back from them (had a choice of a monthly pension or the lump sum)

Yes indeed, it used to be the case that all could register, but as of a few years ago Social stopped registration/entitlement for Director Shareholders (they even de-registered some in my area and refunded their contributions).

I have a card from way back when I was employed and have asked about re-registering on numerous occasions at my local Social Security Office and they always give the same reply 'No - cannot' - It's also the same for my wife who is a Thai Director Shareholder in our company and is also excluded from any benefit/state health care provision.

It makes sense as regards redundancy/unemployment benefit as one could 'fire' one's self - but the exclusion from state health care has no logic and really sucks.

So what documentation would one use for extension of stay, extension of work permit etc...?

Extension of Permission Visa extension on the basis of employment 777 2551 Case 2.1t.pdf

Work Permit Renewal form_tt5.pdf

[Arkady]

First of all I was fined for not having paid social security, which they said I can't have (odd in itself) then I was given a temporary number which I've just received notice that as a 49% shareholder I won't be allowed to register for Social Security and as regards work permit and non-B to take it up with Immigration...

Is there perhaps a requirement for a company to register with SSO within a certain time after the company registration even if the company is at this time not yet assessable for contributions?

My company isn't registered with the SSO...but I don't have any employees though.

Registration of the company with the SSO is only required at the time you register your first employee with the SSO. Directors and shareholders are not normally eligible.

[TerryLH]

"...but the exclusion from state health care has no logic and really sucks."

When they told you that you were no longer entitled to SS benefits, assuming you had been in the system for 12 months, you could have/can start paying on your own.

That would be for the health services only, not retirement, unemployment or any of the other benefits.

The cost for paying on your own is 432 baht a month.

There is a limited time, maybe 6 months, to sign up to pay on your own once you are out of the system through employment.

[digitalchromakey]

"...but the exclusion from state health care has no logic and really sucks."

When they told you that you were no longer entitled to SS benefits, assuming you had been in the system for 12 months, you could have/can start paying on your own.

That would be for the health services only, not retirement, unemployment or any of the other benefits.

The cost for paying on your own is 432 baht a month.

There is a limited time, maybe 6 months, to sign up to pay on your own once you are out of the system through employment.

Yes, was making social contributions, in the system for many years - know of this route for those that stop work, but was informed that this option is not available for directors/shareholders of companies.

Suspected at first that incorrect advice was being given, so tried three different desks at Social on different days, who all gave the same information - cannot.

Maybe this is a result of some local 'spin' in Phuket, but as it was explained to me, this is a national regulation.

[TerryLH]

Several years ago they made teachers at private schools ineligible,

They allowed them to continue paying on their own, even though they continued working in ineligible jobs.