Negotiating Sin Sot With A "upper Class" Family With Unreasonable Request.

[transam]

It doesn't matter.

You are not Thai, for you buying a wife is wrong.

So explain to the mother, in your country it is considered wrong, and you won't do it.

If mother says no wedding, up to her, just live with the girl, she's done it before, she can do it again.

Oh, explain to us again what YOU get out of the wedding?

(We already know it isn't her virginity)

Don't marry a Thai unless you're prepared to accept some important parts of their culture.

By marrying a foreigner, she has already demonstrated she doesn't give a damn about Thai tradition.

By previously sleeping with a foreigner, she has already demonstrated she doesn't give a damn about what anyone thinks of her.

Well said, totally logic and true points.

Edited May 6, 2013 by transam

[CWMcMurray]

......

With regards to Sin Sod - before dropping sums of money, you can ensure (through your fiancé) as to whether or not the money is for show of whether or not the MIL plans on keeping it.

If its for show - No problem, keep everyone happy by following tradition.

If the MIL intends on keeping the money - you have an issue. In this case you need to ensure that your Wife will side with you should things get tricky. But remember your MIL might put of a lot of pressure on your fiancé.

You need to make a decision - What are you prepared to loose. 2 million is a lot and you will obviously need that for your future, use that as part of your negotiation. ....

Have to agree with the above....

If it is just for show, or if used for paying for wedding or down payment on a house / condo or put into 5 or 10 yr bond as some have mentioned then not such a big issue.

If it is going into Mom's pocket to pay for her lifestyle, then a totally different issue.

Would feel out with your GF to see which..

[Pormax]

I agree with most of what has been said before.

The price asked is ridiculous no matter what you or the Thai families social standing is or what monies either of you have.

Emphasis on any negotiations should on your part be that while you understand the Thai tradition of Sin Sod and are willing to go along with this, you wish to give your wife and maybe any children in the future a good a life as possible and to take care of them very well. To pay such a high amount in sin sod would make this very difficult for you in the future.

I would then say to the Mother that although the Father of the bride tradionally pays for the wedding in your country, you are willing to pay this cost plus say a maximum 500,000B plus 2 baht in gold. The later to be given back to your wife after the wedding (as many Thai families do). Then also add that if they cannot come to a reasonable agreement then you will do as her daughter has done twice before and just live together.

[LawrenceChee]

My take on this in Asia, a sin-sot is called many a names and it's very much part of the culture. I would not back away from paying as some have advised. It's just a bad start when you go down that way as there will be many compromises later

In Chinese culture, even in modern Singapore, you still have to buy the wu dian jin (5 point gold - necklace, ring, braclet, earrings) and pin jing (dowry) again like sin sot, the amount is always indicative of the value you put on the relationship.

Depending on circumstances, most inlawas return it taking a small percentage, it's more to say the man who is marrying my daugther has the means to take care of my daugther for life which has a huge bearing in Asian culture (dont underestimate this) than a money making experience for most respectable middle class families

I have to disagree respectfully with those poster who say she is damaged goods due to her prior relationships...one does not describe your partner to be in this sense as many of us here hands to heart are not virgins ourselves and have our own baggages and we shold not judge things like this.

Pre-nups are sound if you have assets to protect, however the reality is if you are marrying upper middle class, they are either equal in money terms with us or in some cases more monied than us making a pre-nup a joke as they obviously have more to lose as compared to us.

bringing a lawyer to a sin-sot makes it an official business transaction and makes everyone lose face, bringing an elder makes it much better and more in tune with the occasion, that is marrying someone you really love.

I would go with a reasonable amount and use the elder to convey the sincerity of the marriage proposal, the objectivity of being able to provide and the intelligence of a man who can provide.

[transam]

My take on this in Asia, a sin-sot is called many a names and it's very much part of the culture. I would not back away from paying as some have advised. It's just a bad start when you go down that way as there will be many compromises later

In Chinese culture, even in modern Singapore, you still have to buy the wu dian jin (5 point gold - necklace, ring, braclet, earrings) and pin jing (dowry) again like sin sot, the amount is always indicative of the value you put on the relationship.

Depending on circumstances, most inlawas return it taking a small percentage, it's more to say the man who is marrying my daugther has the means to take care of my daugther for life which has a huge bearing in Asian culture (dont underestimate this) than a money making experience for most respectable middle class families

I have to disagree respectfully with those poster who say she is damaged goods due to her prior relationships...one does not describe your partner to be in this sense as many of us here hands to heart are not virgins ourselves and have our own baggages and we shold not judge things like this.

Pre-nups are sound if you have assets to protect, however the reality is if you are marrying upper middle class, they are either equal in money terms with us or in some cases more monied than us making a pre-nup a joke as they obviously have more to lose as compared to us.

bringing a lawyer to a sin-sot makes it an official business transaction and makes everyone lose face, bringing an elder makes it much better and more in tune with the occasion, that is marrying someone you really love.

I would go with a reasonable amount and use the elder to convey the sincerity of the marriage proposal, the objectivity of being able to provide and the intelligence of a man who can provide.

So it's OK if your lady has been around the block a few times. Bit like selling a 10 year old Mercedes at todays price.

[rubberduck]

Sounds like you catched the wrong fish, as it usually goes.

Sinsod - no xxxxxx way love me or leave me.

Edited May 12, 2013 by metisdead

[wellred]

They are so quick to adopt to modern technology. iPhones ect... maybe it's time these age old traditions adapt to modern society too. If the 2 people love each other then they should just go ahead and get married. Just be firm and say the money is for yours and your wives future and asking for a sin sod will be putting that at risk.

Maybe even try calling her bluff and saying if she insists on a sin sod then call the wedding off. If she really loves you she will stand up to the MIL and tell her to back off as she wants to marry you no matter what.

People call this tradition? I prefer to call it a measure of ones greed, but feel free to label it how you so wish.

Edited May 6, 2013 by wellred

[aussieruss]

hi all to the op thais dont talk or negotiate for the wedding or sin sod in person they send family to do this to give time for every one to think . so if you want to show you no a little bit about the process do you have a older thai friend that can do this for you .and you stay out of the negotiations and so does your gf good luck

Sent from my GT-I9100T using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[rubberduck]

Sinsot = a 'Thai tradition' ?

Yeah sure ! Referring to 'traditions' only when it fits you well but already ditched the rest of your grandparents traditions long time ago... don't make me laugh.

The only people who live following their traditions are the hilltribes. I love the hilltribes.

[LawrenceChee]

Sinsot = a 'Thai tradition' ?

Yeah sure ! Referring to 'traditions' only when it fits you well but already ditched the rest of your grandparents traditions long time ago... don't make me laugh.

The only people who live following their traditions are the hilltribes. I love the hilltribes.

Glad to know there are no MIL / FIL or grandparents from a western perspetive who would not impose their own traditions ever a pair of newly weds or to be....welcome to the perfect world !

I am so delighted to hear that I am flying back to the west (wink wink) where a bride can be gotten for nothing from the parents :-) wow !

Marry an Asian and you just have to understand there are some Asian values that may be beyond understanding and yet not impossible to do...having a respectable elder negotiate will quickly par down any unreasonable requests....again understanding the Thai's culture social standing means a respectable elder can negotiate a reasonable sum with the right terms without anyone losing face and keeping your future MIL happy as a lark and feel validated her points are heard.

If you truly love your panlaya...i am not sure if I can follow the rationale behind some of the postings of leaving her...seems like negotiating a bull at San Patong market...it's not a business deal...it's an emotional commitment. By all means walk out of a business deal that has a bad term tied to it...walking out a woman that you feel is right...some will argue there is another out there ...well just good luck finding that...we all know it's not that easy.

Things that starts off wrong normally end up wrongly

[eezergood]

Put another way - Would you give the family of a western girl UDS$65k/GBP 43k ish?

Sin sot - my arse

[transam]

I wonder what would happen if it were the other way round. I mean if she was a he and the OP was a farang girl .

Would the Thai family hand over 43,000 UK pounds ? Eeeeeeeeeeeeer, don't think so.

[eezergood]

If they use the money to make face for a ceremony, I can live with that! If not & they play the tradition card, then I would also play the tradition card & ask why the mother is divorced?

Explain that the 2m is better spent on her daughter & potential grandkids, rather than gold & a fortuner

[simon43]

My counter-offer to her mum would be to explain that in your culture, the woman and her family pays, and that you will generously accept a 'sinsot' of only 1 million baht....

Simon

[AnotherOneAmerican]

If you truly love your panlaya...i am not sure if I can follow the rationale behind some of the postings of leaving her...seems like negotiating a bull at San Patong market...it's not a business deal...it's an emotional commitment. By all means walk out of a business deal that has a bad term tied to it...walking out a woman that you feel is right...some will argue there is another out there ...well just good luck finding that...we all know it's not that easy.

Things that starts off wrong normally end up wrongly

Mr. Chee

I'm quite surprised you don't understand that buying a wife in Asia is nothing to do with love or emotion.

It is entirely a business deal to improve the lot of at least one of the families, much like buying a buffalo at San Patong market.

[LawrenceChee]

If you truly love your panlaya...i am not sure if I can follow the rationale behind some of the postings of leaving her...seems like negotiating a bull at San Patong market...it's not a business deal...it's an emotional commitment. By all means walk out of a business deal that has a bad term tied to it...walking out a woman that you feel is right...some will argue there is another out there ...well just good luck finding that...we all know it's not that easy.

Things that starts off wrong normally end up wrongly

Mr. Chee

I'm quite surprised you don't understand that buying a wife in Asia is nothing to do with love or emotion.

It is entirely a business deal to improve the lot of at least one of the families, much like buying a buffalo at San Patong market.

True for some but not for all...not every Thai family needs the financial help.

[commande]

If you truly love your panlaya...i am not sure if I can follow the rationale behind some of the postings of leaving her...seems like negotiating a bull at San Patong market...it's not a business deal...it's an emotional commitment. By all means walk out of a business deal that has a bad term tied to it...walking out a woman that you feel is right...some will argue there is another out there ...well just good luck finding that...we all know it's not that easy.

Things that starts off wrong normally end up wrongly

Mr. Chee

I'm quite surprised you don't understand that buying a wife in Asia is nothing to do with love or emotion.

It is entirely a business deal to improve the lot of at least one of the families, much like buying a buffalo at San Patong market.

True for some but not for all...not every Thai family needs the financial help.

AND if they don't need the help they will give the Sin Sot back .... Yesssss, righttttttt

[tolsti]

Where's the OP now? nothing more than an original (not) post. No further reaction?

I smell Bridge Dweller fumes.

[stoneyboy]

Where's the OP now? nothing more than an original (not) post. No further reaction?

I smell Bridge Dweller fumes.

He's here having a beer or two.

[Sharp]

She's used goods my friend.... Not a chance would i pay

Sent from my GT-N7000B using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[MrSabai]

Thanks you for all the replies, even though there is a few with no real content but I was counting on those as well, I knew before that this isn’t the best place to ask questions like this but I took the chance and it paid of with some good information that helped me clear up how I can do to protect my side of the negotiation table.

In 3 days I will have my meeting with the MIL and it would be good as someone wrote to have a Thai person by my side to negotiate but it isn’t possible at the moment, but like I said I think I have a clear idea on how to make it the best by myself and with or without help I still have my limitations on how much and in what way to pay sin sot.

I will never agree to anything that doesn’t feel reasonable or comfortable and I will never agree on paying any sin sot that brings money to MIL, she have enough as it is. But I will do my best to show that I care and respect by trying to follow the tradition and culture and I’m ok to pay some sin sot that goes back to me and my future wife’s life. I take a lot of self-convincing and reading to even start to accept the idea of sin sot but I’m doing this for my own happiness and future because this girl is worth doing it for.

I still have a feeling that this is a test from MIL and that she somehow will change her mind even if my offer don’t give her any money for herself it will give her daughter and nice wedding, some gold for tradition and some money for us to start our new life and a secure future with me. All of this will be a test for my GF as well, and I will for sure see how important our future is to her, I know she will not turn on her mom completely but she can make it easier for her mom to see the truth on what kind of person I am and my intentions with her daughter.

I guess I will post some story on the final result; it might help someone else in the future.

[AnotherOneAmerican]

I still have a feeling that this is a test from MIL and that she somehow will change her mind even if my offer don’t give her any money for herself it will give her daughter and nice wedding, some gold for tradition and some money for us to start our new life and a secure future with me. All of this will be a test for my GF as well, and I will for sure see how important our future is to her, I know she will not turn on her mom completely but she can make it easier for her mom to see the truth on what kind of person I am and my intentions with her daughter.

I guess I will post some story on the final result; it might help someone else in the future.

I can predict the outcome of this "test".

The result will be you discover they care nothing about you, and everything about your money.

That's all they want, money, money, money.

If you don't give it, and plenty of it, you will be quickly shown the door.

I hope I'm wrong, so good luck anyway.

Edited May 11, 2013 by AnotherOneAmerican

[LawrenceChee]

Thanks you for all the replies, even though there is a few with no real content but I was counting on those as well, I knew before that this isn’t the best place to ask questions like this but I took the chance and it paid of with some good information that helped me clear up how I can do to protect my side of the negotiation table.

In 3 days I will have my meeting with the MIL and it would be good as someone wrote to have a Thai person by my side to negotiate but it isn’t possible at the moment, but like I said I think I have a clear idea on how to make it the best by myself and with or without help I still have my limitations on how much and in what way to pay sin sot.

I will never agree to anything that doesn’t feel reasonable or comfortable and I will never agree on paying any sin sot that brings money to MIL, she have enough as it is. But I will do my best to show that I care and respect by trying to follow the tradition and culture and I’m ok to pay some sin sot that goes back to me and my future wife’s life. I take a lot of self-convincing and reading to even start to accept the idea of sin sot but I’m doing this for my own happiness and future because this girl is worth doing it for.

I still have a feeling that this is a test from MIL and that she somehow will change her mind even if my offer don’t give her any money for herself it will give her daughter and nice wedding, some gold for tradition and some money for us to start our new life and a secure future with me. All of this will be a test for my GF as well, and I will for sure see how important our future is to her, I know she will not turn on her mom completely but she can make it easier for her mom to see the truth on what kind of person I am and my intentions with her daughter.

I guess I will post some story on the final result; it might help someone else in the future.

be happy to hear your feedback on how it goes...all the best to you and your love !

[richard_smith237]

I still have a feeling that this is a test from MIL and that she somehow will change her mind even if my offer don’t give her any money for herself it will give her daughter and nice wedding, some gold for tradition and some money for us to start our new life and a secure future with me. All of this will be a test for my GF as well, and I will for sure see how important our future is to her, I know she will not turn on her mom completely but she can make it easier for her mom to see the truth on what kind of person I am and my intentions with her daughter.

I guess I will post some story on the final result; it might help someone else in the future.

I can predict the outcome of this "test".

The result will be you discover they care nothing about you, and everything about your money.

That's all they want, money, money, money.

If you don't give it, and plenty of it, you will be quickly shown the door.

I hope I'm wrong, so good luck anyway.

Don't judge everyone else by your own negative experiences....

My experience is highly positive, as is that of my friends who have married into educated 'well-to-do' families...

Good luck to Op, he seems switched on, his in laws should recognise and respect that.

[transam]

I still have a feeling that this is a test from MIL and that she somehow will change her mind even if my offer don’t give her any money for herself it will give her daughter and nice wedding, some gold for tradition and some money for us to start our new life and a secure future with me. All of this will be a test for my GF as well, and I will for sure see how important our future is to her, I know she will not turn on her mom completely but she can make it easier for her mom to see the truth on what kind of person I am and my intentions with her daughter.

I guess I will post some story on the final result; it might help someone else in the future.

I can predict the outcome of this "test".

The result will be you discover they care nothing about you, and everything about your money.

That's all they want, money, money, money.

If you don't give it, and plenty of it, you will be quickly shown the door.

I hope I'm wrong, so good luck anyway.

Don't judge everyone else by your own negative experiences....

My experience is highly positive, as is that of my friends who have married into educated 'well-to-do' families...

Good luck to Op, he seems switched on, his in laws should recognise and respect that.

Depends what you refer to as '' well to do family''. I am a well to do family too but.....

[Ace of Pop]

Well To Do and Educated Thais dont ask Fereangs for Cash.Thats a Fact.

[somtampet]

She was 25 when u met

She had a farang boyfriend for a FEW years before?????

How old when she met the other farang????, and how old was he

[somtampet]

Well To Do and Educated Thais dont ask Fereangs for Cash.Thats a Fact.

whats a fereang

[Ace of Pop]

Well To Do and Educated Thais dont ask Fereangs for Cash.Thats a Fact.

whats a fereang

An ATM Machine teacher.

[wprime]

Reminds me of an experience i had with a half Thai girl I met in Sydney. Parents were obviously wealthy enough to send the daughter to study in Sydney but the mother's greed and insecurity was reminiscent of a poor farming girl.

It turns out, the father, who had also divorced the mother some time ago was a farang of reasonable wealth but the mother was from a poor Isaan family who had married him for the security. The father, obviously getting fed up with the greedy mother, divorced her and left her with some money for the daughter and went back to his home country. The mother wasted all that money and so married again demanding a huge sinsot.

The mother would always gloat about how rich she is, how successful she is, how she was too wealthy to mix with her family in Isaan yet too poor at heart to mix with the Bangkok crowd. I actually felt sorry for her, I could see how desperate she was to fit into Bangkok society.