Negotiating Sin Sot With A "upper Class" Family With Unreasonable Request.

[chiangmaikelly]

If a potential wife refused to marry because of it , she wouldn't be wife potential to start with.

I eloped with my wife 18 years ago, parents went mad but down the track they are fine with us. In fact we are now very close.

I see marriage as between two people, those getting married. Stuff the rest and what they want, and the countless demands they normally make.

I would imagine you did not marry a Thai woman?

Edited May 15, 2013 by chiangmaikelly

[chiangmaikelly]

I don't respect people who try to sell their children.

It's despicable.

If you only have the capacity to view this as parents selling their children then I understand your opinion and that of many others here that the whole idea of Sin-Sod is despicable. However, had we grown up in this culture we may all have had a better understanding and not be so quick to judge a whole nation of In-Laws as money grabbers...

What of the families who insist it is paid as part if culture, face etc, but also return it?

My inlaws insisted on sin-sod, I negotiated lightly, the son-sod was of course returned, a Rai of land in Bangkok was gifted to us (well my Wife as I can't own it). When meeting the inlaws it's now hugs and also a peck on the cheek from MIL... Had I played too hard with the sin-sod, or rather, had I paid heed to many of the negative posts on this forum my family life would be very different now and certainly more difficult or awkward than it is at present.

Less than 20 years ago it was acceptable for poor Thais to sell their 12 year old daughters to a brothel.

I don't think the parents asking for sin-sot are much better. Different game, but same ball park.

It may have worked out well for you, but how many Thai women still have to suffer being sold?

I was here 40 years ago and your statement in nonsense.

[chiangmaikelly]

Well To Do and Educated Thais dont ask Fereangs for Cash.Thats a Fact.

Well to do and educated Thais don't let their daughter sleep with foreigners, that's a fact.

I just gotta ask how the heck you would know? Well to do educated Thais educate their daughters in the US or UK how do you know who she is sleeping with?

[farang000999]

A man paying to get married.

Oh Christ.

Print this thread out OP and get back to me in 10 years.

[farang000999]

There is a whole lot of lese majeste in this thread by all the experts on what upper class Thais do.

[Mooner]

Say to the mother " In Farang culture the father pays for the wedding".

She will probably reply " But we are Thai, not our culture!"

Then you reply " I am not Thai. I am Farang. Not in my culture to pay sin sod!"

Problem solved!

If she cant respect your cultures ideals you should not have to respect hers!

[thaicbr]

I don't respect people who try to sell their children.

It's despicable.

If you only have the capacity to view this as parents selling their children then I understand your opinion and that of many others here that the whole idea of Sin-Sod is despicable. However, had we grown up in this culture we may all have had a better understanding and not be so quick to judge a whole nation of In-Laws as money grabbers...

What of the families who insist it is paid as part if culture, face etc, but also return it?

My inlaws insisted on sin-sod, I negotiated lightly, the son-sod was of course returned, a Rai of land in Bangkok was gifted to us (well my Wife as I can't own it). When meeting the inlaws it's now hugs and also a peck on the cheek from MIL... Had I played too hard with the sin-sod, or rather, had I paid heed to many of the negative posts on this forum my family life would be very different now and certainly more difficult or awkward than it is at present.

Less than 20 years ago it was acceptable for poor Thais to sell their 12 year old daughters to a brothel.

I don't think the parents asking for sin-sot are much better. Different game, but same ball park.

It may have worked out well for you, but how many Thai women still have to suffer being sold?

I was here 40 years ago and your statement in nonsense.

Which part is nonsense?

even today you see very underage girls in SOME karaoke bars. One i go to occasionally had some young girls in. On asking they were 13-14 the mothers had taken them in to find a rich guy before they were 15, they can get married at 15 with parents consent..

[inapeartree]

I have around 15 good friends in Thailand that are married and only two paid a sin-sot, one of those had the money returned to them after the ceremony.

[frankold]

Having mortgages on a house, condo and car loan makes someone upperclass nowadays?

[Mooner]

I have around 15 good friends in Thailand that are married and only two paid a sin-sot, one of those had the money returned to them after the ceremony.

If they want to save face then i can agree with playing along but i think the money should be returned like in ur friends experience.

[Ace of Pop]

Nice post from Chaingmaikelly, you can see hes been here 40 Years. Reminds me of the song" How to Handle a Woman, said the Fool to The Wise Old Man". He will no doubt appreciate this point. Sin Sod many Years ago was used to drive away Fortune Seekers. If the Maiden was of Rich Family they whacked up the Price to get rid of the Poor Kid. So if your asked for Sin Sod, where do you stand. .

[chiangmaikelly]

Nice post from Chaingmaikelly, you can see hes been here 40 Years. Reminds me of the song" How to Handle a Woman, said the Fool to The Wise Old Man". He will no doubt appreciate this point. Sin Sod many Years ago was used to drive away Fortune Seekers. If the Maiden was of Rich Family they whacked up the Price to get rid of the Poor Kid. So if your asked for Sin Sod, where do you stand. .

Thank you and In the interest of full disclosure; I got here in 1968 stayed a few years, left, lived in other parts of the world and then came back to Thailand and have lived here full time for the last 10 years.

Sin Sod is probably one of the most over talked about topics on Thai Visa. It does bring out the ....... Although by the answers it is pretty easy to tell who has never been married and who is married to a Thai woman, who will not be married to a Thai woman long.

Edited May 15, 2013 by chiangmaikelly

[frankold]

Ok so we had our little meeting and ill tell real quick how it went and make it more detailed later on.

So MIL kinda changed her mind, sure she like the best security for her daughter but she understod me when i was explaining that i can take care of her better if im in charge of my own money.

So she kind of said that if you love each other you shouldent wait to start life to long and suggested we marry this year and then let her daughter decide how we should do about sin sot.

So to make it good for my future wife ill be paying for wedding, some traditional gold and small amount of sin sot, no details decided, everything with in reason as it should be.

So ill follow tradition, family will be ok and the wife will feel a bit secure and be happy about it.

So all is not black or white, and people may suprise you.

More to come

So it appears she was just wanting to show off to the neighbours

[soi41]

Ok so we had our little meeting and ill tell real quick how it went and make it more detailed later on.

So MIL kinda changed her mind, sure she like the best security for her daughter but she understod me when i was explaining that i can take care of her better if im in charge of my own money.

So she kind of said that if you love each other you shouldent wait to start life to long and suggested we marry this year and then let her daughter decide how we should do about sin sot.

So to make it good for my future wife ill be paying for wedding, some traditional gold and small amount of sin sot, no details decided, everything with in reason as it should be.

So ill follow tradition, family will be ok and the wife will feel a bit secure and be happy about it.

So all is not black or white, and people may suprise you.

More to come

She is a smart old bird your future MIL!!

"and then let her daughter decide how to do about sin sot"

I would like to be a flie on the wall during those negotiations! "No not tonight darling, I have a headache" "I am so tired, I really need to sleep"

[2008bangkok]

The old sin sot discussions.

It's a thai custom and as you are not thai then just politely tell her sin sots are not paid in the west

[chiangmaikelly]

The old sin sot discussions.

It's a thai custom and as you are not thai then just politely tell her sin sots are not paid in the west

I assume you are the voice of experience talking. How did it go when you did this?

[overherebc]

Usually asked for by poor families or by newly rich trying to get richer.

Old money families give it back the next morning.

[rgs2001uk]

The old sin sot discussions.

It's a thai custom and as you are not thai then just politely tell her sin sots are not paid in the west

I assume you are the voice of experience talking. How did it go when you did this?

Well here's my experience, no sin sot asked for, none paid.

No money given to wife on a monthly basis, wife gives no money to family, anyone coming looking for money is told, sell your grandmothers land, or sell your own land.

The grandmother called me a effin poof, after looking at my hands and saying they were like a womans, no good for planting rice.

The MIL said she didnt want to lose face by having the village gossips thinking she had no money.

None of the village gossips were invited to the wedding, on the instructions of the MIL, the same gossips that told her no one would want her ugly dark skinned daughter.

Any time we go to the MILs house the same old rubber neckers are just ignored, peasants the lot of them.

Thats my experience, plenty of decent girls out there, the 2 week millionaires wont find them.

[lemoncake]

Interesting thread and responses.

Here is my input and hope it helps OP in some way.

I was dating a 21 year old sweetie( i was 32 at the time), she came from somewhat well off family.

Mother was a teacher and father had an earth moving business, but passed away from heart attack(stress)

Anyhow, family was well set up.

At one stage we did talk about marrying so i asked what her mother was seeking in terms of sin sod.

My GF laughed and said nothing. I was somewhat puzzled and thought she was joking, so i asked again.

GF again responded by saying nothing, as she is not a cow for sale.

Seeing as i was not getting a straight answer(thats how i saw it) i decided to speak with mother direct.

The response was even more shocking. Mother said

"My daughter is NOT a cow for sale, you marry because love and do best to make her happy, furthermore i will help with sharing wedding costs."

To be honest i was pretty speechless, but shock did not stop there.

Clearly mother spoke to her son(older brother of my GF) who called a few days later and offered to take out a loan for a house that we may want and also

help out with hotel(as i was about to open new hotel)

I was speechless and really shocked at the niceness and i do not even know the words to use of this family, who only wanted her daughter to be happy and wanted to help with any business i was going to do.

Unfortunately, it did not work out, as i decided i was not the right man for her, only because she was very sweet and innocent and i could not trust myself to stay faithful and not hurt her and her family.

The moral of the story is, sinsod, while is a tradition, it is an old tradition and i guess not all family's "sell" their daughters

I will say though, i think mother has come up with this number not to actually get it but rather as a test to see OP reaction.

When speaking with mother, i would say that OP is not buying a cow but wants to marry her daughter because he loves her and wants to make her happy.

I think mother may change her tone when she sees OP is a genuine guy, who sounds like he is.

Edited May 15, 2013 by lemoncake

[FDog]

This thread reminds me of the thread on smoking.

Good luck to the OP, if he and his new wife are happy with the outcome then sod the lot of the naysayers.

[2008bangkok]

The old sin sot discussions.

It's a thai custom and as you are not thai then just politely tell her sin sots are not paid in the west

I assume you are the voice of experience talking. How did it go when you did this?

Well I expected to pay nothing and I paid nothing so I would say it went well thanks

[chiangmaikelly]

I passed the buck before when I was asked about my personal sin sod experience. I put up 50,000 baht and 4 gold bars on a plate. My wife gave me 50,000 which was also put on the plate (pretending it was from me). We had a catered wedding with tables and chairs, decorations and a tent and beer and wine for 50 people.

We got 40,000 baht in envelopes from the guests.

How the money was spent. I got the gold bars back. My wife got her 50,000 back. Momma got 50,000. My wife and I split the 40,000 in gift envelops. My wife paid for the wedding, it cost about 50,000. We got presents totaling around 50,000 for the house.

I guess it could happen that a person would get married in Thailand without sin sod. Or be told by the family that their daughter is not a cow for sale and they don't want sin sod. I have also heard that in certain parts of Thailand that pigs fly.

[Ace of Pop]

I hate to go to a Ferang Thai Wedding. I find them Embarrassing .El Dumbo sits there grinning and laughing at everything, but doesn't know why !!.The Foods a Cold Grinning Fish,and that after gulping all the Chepo Whiskey on the table,the Groom looks about the same.Then the Mozzies nip you, despite the Litre of Buzz Off you showered in. Just when you find a Guest who doesn't speak Thai Lao,the <deleted> Music kills any conversation. You exit stage right,and there's 1 Million Trucks blocking your discreet exit.

[transam]

I hate to go to a Ferang Thai Wedding. I find them Embarrassing .El Dumbo sits there grinning and laughing at everything, but doesn't know why !!.The Foods a Cold Grinning Fish,and that after gulping all the Chepo Whiskey on the table,the Groom looks about the same.Then the Mozzies nip you, despite the Litre of Buzz Off you showered in. Just when you find a Guest who doesn't speak Thai Lao,the <deleted> Music kills any conversation. You exit stage right,and there's 1 Million Trucks blocking your discreet exit.

And what pisses me off is they don't want me to sing Clapton. ( Well sometimes) Seems if the queue of Thai singers cannot sing there might be fisticuffs. .........

[Ace of Pop]

There must be so many tales out there. My Classic is the Rain Storm and Power Cut .50 Tables set out, Power Cut,total darkness,heavens opened,power comes back in 20Mins,Guests Gone along with the Whiskey off the Tables. Just Me and ATM Mate pissed, and sitting in the rain.

[David48]

Who gives a dam what In Laws think.You chose a Lady, not a Family, as a Man they fit in with You. unless your on the Scrounge.

... I see that you are adapting well to your new Culture

.

[David48]

Well to do and educated Thais don't let their daughter sleep with foreigners, that's a fact.

+1 correct - and not so well educated Thai's also don't let their daughters sleep with a Foreigner/Thai.

The parents that allow foreigners sleep with their daughters before marriage don't really follow Thai tradition and might be in for the money.

Me thinks you read too much and have little genuine experience.

But, of course, silly me ... you are able to speak for all Thai Parents, you have been born in Thailand and raised your children here, daughters who are now dating (but not sleeping) with a Western Boyfriend ...

I'll give you a wee tip ... Thailand is a rainbow of Cultures and moral mindsets, north to the deep south. Lao village to Muslim in the south.

.

[Ace of Pop]

Who gives a dam what In Laws think.You chose a Lady, not a Family, as a Man they fit in with You. unless your on the Scrounge.

... I see that you are adapting well to your new Culture

.

What Culture..?. They fit in with me.Or Ship Out. Do the Immigrants in Europe try to fit in.

[transam]

Who gives a dam what In Laws think.You chose a Lady, not a Family, as a Man they fit in with You. unless your on the Scrounge.

... I see that you are adapting well to your new Culture

.

What Culture..?. They fit in with me.Or Ship Out. Do the Immigrants in Europe try to fit in.

I do tend to agree here. It is only when you have lived here a while and if you are a wee bit perceptive you will learn that you are always an outsider regardless of how much money or smiles are involved. I get on great with most Thais but behind it it really is having a farang present at stuff for the gossip value etc. At this very moment I know three ladies with elderly husbands that they think will pop off in the near future who are NOW looking for/lining up replacements. Cash flow thing. I am horrified, but the mrs told me the details. Yeh another SinSod.

[Ace of Pop]

Who gives a dam what In Laws think.You chose a Lady, not a Family, as a Man they fit in with You. unless your on the Scrounge.

... I see that you are adapting well to your new Culture

.

What Culture..?. They fit in with me.Or Ship Out. Do the Immigrants in Europe try to fit in.

I do tend to agree here. It is only when you have lived here a while and if you are a wee bit perceptive you will learn that you are always an outsider regardless of how much money or smiles are involved. I get on great with most Thais but behind it it really is having a farang present at stuff for the gossip value etc. At this very moment I know three ladies with elderly husbands that they think will pop off in the near future who are NOW looking for/lining up replacements. Cash flow thing. I am horrified, but the mrs told me the details. Yeh another SinSod.

Strange you should say that. Ive noticed over the years the bigger the Party the Newbie Flash Boy has,the Shorter the farce lasts.