Thaksin Given Ultimatum To Resign Within 48 Hours

[cdnvic]

Is it my imagination, or is this Alliance for Democracy an anti-democratic alliance of those who have failed to be elected, or were thrown out for being corrupt. And of course the academics!

Odd how the "Alliance for democracy" want's to remove an elected politician without anyone getting to vote on it. I'm no fan of the PM, but these other guys are a joke.

cv

[dave111223]

BANGKOK: -- Anti-Thaksin demonstrators led by the People's Alliance for Democracy (PAD) gave an ultimatum Tuesday evening that caretaker Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra resigns within 48

Or what ?

Hold up traffic yet again,

What a bunch of frustrated goofs...Whatever Thaksin did wrong, they're doing even worst for the country at this point...

Pathetic...

I doubt the protests are worse for the country than the 2 Billion Tax free dollars Thaksin pocketed.

Stealing taxes to buy votes seems like one of the worst forms of corruption. It totally undermines the democratic system, and thus he should be removed. He should not be give the chance to buy his way back in with the money he just stole from the tax payers.

Edited March 22, 2006 by dave111223

[dan10400]

Out of respect for our hosts and the fact that we are mere visitors to this country, I will keep my comments to myself.

However, I must state that I strongly oppose to the one farang that I saw present (on television) at the political demonstration and feel that he is out of line for even being there.

He is well prepared to get deported and banned from entering thailand again. Hopefully, he is not one of our member.

i can't say i ever heard of non-nationals getting deported and banned

from other countries for joining political demonstrations. although he

might violation your rules of conduct in a foreign country, i am not

aware any westerner who might join a political protest is doing

anything illegal (maybe stupid as he might make himself more

likely to be singled out and attacked).

regardless, he might actually hold thai citizenship. granted, westerners

that have received thai citizenship outright are few, but there is a

considerable amount of luk-krung here that don't look at all thai and

hold citizenship as a manner of

[howg]

Democracy is much more than elections. Unfortunately, the entire "free" world now defines democracy as such. A very convenient definition to be sure, (not to mention the recent unabashed vote rigging in certain "democracies"). A true democracy requires, at the very least, a free press, an informed public and an independent judiciary. To the best of my knowledge, this does not exist anywhere in the world, (and perhaps never has??). As such, one cannot oust an elected official through legal avenues - corruption, fraud, murder, drug dealing, fraud, extortion, etc.

It is a sad state of affairs that is certainly not unique to Thailand. And "legalized" corruption, as practiced by the G8, is no better. At least the Thais know their governments are corrupt to the core. More than I can say for most farangs!

[Lifelover]

What a tragedy that the leaders of the demonstrations are so politically inept. Sadly also, it is some indication of what a shambles a new government under their power or influence would become.

The fact is that Thaksin was democratically elected by a landslide. I dislike Thaksin and his practices and I'd love to see a viable Opposition systematically develop the case against him, go into the countryside and make that case plain to the voters who elected him last time and then go to the polls on 2 April to see how well they fared. Chances are in that scenario that Thaksin would still win but with very much reduced numbers. He would no longer be able to claim a 'mandate' to push through his own agenda, the Opposition would have some chance to influence daily political life and in the next elections would have a good chance of winning (if they had done a good job).

I was full of praise for Sondhi when he first stood up to Thaksin publicly. The first serious contender that he has had, or certainly the first to have caught the eye of the public. That is what democracy is all about. Once he had shown the way, others became emboldened and came out of the woodwork to join this opposition and it quickly became a Movement. Everything was just great up to that point. Unfortunately the leaders of that Movement seem to have taken leave of their senses and instead of rallying to the cause of democracy, they have dragged the Movement down a road that is essentially undemocratic and at best politically naieve.

[lukamar]

What a lot of people seem to forget (rather quickly) is that the protests are not about changing the party in power - they are about removing Thaksin from its leadership.

The TRT is TS. He's the one holding the thing together if he were to leave TRT would probably self destruct. Removing TS is the same as changing the party in power and all the political parties know that, but don't come out and say it directly.

[tonezzz]

PAD = Political Alliance Democracy? I think this turns to be funny (or serious?), could it be "Protesting And Destroying (Democracy)". Don't understand me wrong, I'm saying this coz I think they they're going a bit too far right now.

Is it something like "We need democracy but this time please follow me" (or somebody will get hurt and that's the responsibility of the one who don't follow me)?

Or something like "I have to violate the law to stop the other side from violating the law, I'll do it more if they don't stop and it's all the other side's responsibility"

*** I think that to ban the election is obviously against the democracy. *** (whatever the reasons are).

(Please try to understand my meaning not my letters, my English is very limited, sorry)

I think protesting is ok in democracy as long as they don't violate the law.

I'm lucky enough that I'm stying out of the protesting area. I hate traffic jam, if I'll will be against them that could be because of the traffic jam they caused.

Doing wrong is still be doing wrong, it cannot turns to be right by comparing to the others. I think.

[falang74]

It is a wonderful sight to see Thais out on the street in peaceful demostration fighting for what they feel is right for their country namely the removal of PM Thaksin. Of course a clear plan is important as has been lacking since 1932, but if as one "Academic" I recently spoke with is correct in his assumption that His Majesty the King may soon intervene and assist in establishing new leadership for the Thai people there may be some hope. It will be interesting to see if this occurs.

I only hope that these moves continue along a peaceful track. I hope that the Thai's, that is all Thai's take notice and put forth the effort to become more knowledgable on issues that concern there live's and the direction of their country. Years of "training" have left many willing to accept their lot in life abiding to the precepts of buddhist philosophy. This has allowed an elite to effectively exploit the masses for their personal benefit.

My heart goes out to Thai's and my hope is for a new beginning to a bright future.

[Johpa]

.....He is well prepared to get deported and banned from entering thailand again. Hopefully, he is not one of our member.

The more skeptical amongst us might argue that getting deported or being exiled ( a la 1973) is the ultimate goal of Taksin. I mean you don't really think Taksin wants to have the money from the sale of Shin Corp be brought into Thailand now?

The opposition is just jealous that he got away with such a grandiose scheme tax free and now they wany to be in a position to do the same thing. For all the hoopla, the opposition is no better than the TRT party. It is all just a matter of which group of corrupt Bangkok cronies gets the biggest peice of the pie. The opposition is in awe of just how big a piece of the pie Taksin was able to take of the plate and now they all want a big piece too. In the end, nothing will change, profits will be taken out of the country by the elite and the mass of folks in the rural areas as well as the urban poor will be exactly where they are today. There too will still be plenty of jobs for you neo-colonial ex-pats to enjoy the good life.

[falang74]

Democracy is much more than elections. Unfortunately, the entire "free" world now defines democracy as such. A very convenient definition to be sure, (not to mention the recent unabashed vote rigging in certain "democracies"). A true democracy requires, at the very least, a free press, an informed public and an independent judiciary. To the best of my knowledge, this does not exist anywhere in the world, (and perhaps never has??). As such, one cannot oust an elected official through legal avenues - corruption, fraud, murder, drug dealing, fraud, extortion, etc.

It is a sad state of affairs that is certainly not unique to Thailand. And "legalized" corruption, as practiced by the G8, is no better. At least the Thais know their governments are corrupt to the core. More than I can say for most farangs!

Very well said.... One of things I have appreciated about Thailand in comparison to the U.S. not that this is "good" either but atleast the corruption throughout Thailand is transparent. Most Western nations elite do just as PM Thaksin but it's managed through big business and lobbying.

Edited March 22, 2006 by falang74

[Plus]

Wow, three pages of "pro-Taksin" posts and it was not 9AM yet. Talking about coming out of the woodwork.

In the latest poll 60% want independent investigations in Shin sale against 10% who are satisfied with SEC conclusions.

Overall the majority, 40% vs 30%, want Taksin to stay. Lots of those 40% apparently are in the "investigation" camp, blissfully unaware that there are no independent bodies to investigate sitting PM.

I don't quite understand the posters saying that democracy is only about elections. Fidel Castro is elected, Kim Jon Il is elected. Seems like these posters choose only apects of democracy that suit their interests and completely ignore others.

And what about posters implying that PAD wants to form a new government? Nonsense. Democrats, of course, want to be in the new government, but who said they are not going to go through elections first?

[ilyushin]

BANGKOK: -- Anti-Thaksin demonstrators led by the People's Alliance for Democracy (PAD) gave an ultimatum Tuesday evening that caretaker Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra resigns within 48

Or what ?

Hold up traffic yet again,

What a bunch of frustrated goofs...Whatever Thaksin did wrong, they're doing even worst for the country at this point...

Pathetic...

Afraid I cannot agree. These people could not in a million years do worse than Thaksin. As for being a goof (s) Thaksin is one of the biggest jokes to ever be visited on a country.

If you think these people are doing wrong please think back to the people in 1973, 1976 and 1992 who were influential in ridding the country of the monkeys then in power, the people now are doing their best to see that the wrongs of the past are not repeated adinfinitum.

To the people who are now pushing for Thaksins ouster we should all take our collective hats off to you.

Agree! What are they doing wrong? They just want an opportunity to change the government. At least have some say. Thaksin has had his chance. A new government will be created out of the mess left by Doc Tox. The PAD cannot establish any long term plans until they see the internal damage to the central government and system which has been closed to public.

[baht&sold]

I was unusually impressed with Chavalit's odd statesman like comments in the Bkk Post yesterday (particularily the highlighted bit below). PAD giving an ultimatum is ridiculous and a bit dangerous. I'm all for peaceful protest or for democratically voting 'no' on the ballot box to voice one's displeasure but ultimatums aren't the way.

Chavalit cool on 'middleman PM'

Former prime minister Gen Chavalit Yongchaiyudh has given a cool response to the call for a royally-bestowed prime minister under Article 7 of the constitution.

He said under the current circumstances, there is no need for a "middleman" to step into the picture as the people in government still deserve a measure of respect, although the government should also take heed of its critics.

A middleman is understood to refer to a royally-bestowed prime minister under Article 7 of the constitution.

Gen Chavalit described the ongoing showdown between conflicting groups as "another stage in the development in Thai politics" and as long as it had no long-term catastrophic spill-over effects, it should be deemed as progress.

Brushing aside a prediction that the crisis could explode into violence as each opposing party is adamant about defeating the other, Gen Chavalit said it is understandable that the parties involved in the conflict want to stand firm in their respective positions and emerge triumphant, but the means of doing this must be by talking and not resorting to violence.

He said there there had only been verbal attacks from either side so far, and the impasse would not last for too long.

Edited March 22, 2006 by baht&sold

[lukamar]

They just want an opportunity to change the government. At least have some say.

Great idea and noble concept, except in this day and age you do that by running candidates and winning seats so you can form the government or a strong opposition and then you have some say. At the moment only the TRT is campaigning everyone else stagnant and looking to some other party to change the government for them, be that other party the EC, the Privy Council, the military or the Monarchy. Changing the government in this way is a big step backward into the past history of Thailand, not a step forward.

[h90]

I agree: could be either a thai national (even I have doubts, but it's possible).

I would never mix in Thailands political afairs, but as Toxin steals Thailands money, he also took some of my tax which I paid with my company, so it is also a little bit my thing.

As well if the farang has children here, which are thai nationality than it his afair...

Out of respect for our hosts and the fact that we are mere visitors to this country, I will keep my comments to myself.

However, I must state that I strongly oppose to the one farang that I saw present (on television) at the political demonstration and feel that he is out of line for even being there.

He is well prepared to get deported and banned from entering thailand again. Hopefully, he is not one of our member.

i can't say i ever heard of non-nationals getting deported and banned

from other countries for joining political demonstrations. although he

might violation your rules of conduct in a foreign country, i am not

aware any westerner who might join a political protest is doing

anything illegal (maybe stupid as he might make himself more

likely to be singled out and attacked).

regardless, he might actually hold thai citizenship. granted, westerners

that have received thai citizenship outright are few, but there is a

considerable amount of luk-krung here that don't look at all thai and

hold citizenship as a manner of

[baht&sold]

They just want an opportunity to change the government. At least have some say.

Great idea and noble concept, except in this day and age you do that by running candidates and winning seats so you can form the government or a strong opposition and then you have some say. At the moment only the TRT is campaigning everyone else stagnant and looking to some other party to change the government for them, be that other party the EC, the Privy Council, the military or the Monarchy. Changing the government in this way is a big step backward into the past history of Thailand, not a step forward.

Now, I may be a bit thick Lukamar... but from what I understand, it isn't about changing the Govt per say, it's about changing the leader (who some feel has made himself irremovable under current 'voting' erm, tactics').

I gather the hope afterwards is, it may be possible to evolve the institutions of democracy which he ultimately controls under the current impasse (to deny this is admitting ignorance). Some would prefer the staus quo. Some have higher aspirations for Thailand's future

Given today's PAD ultimatum and Thaksin's call to bring 'his supporters' to the anti-camp at Govt house, someone's gotta blink here and soon... (doubtfull with BIG FACE, fragile egos and agendas at stake)

Me? I'm just a guest but I suspect after the dust settles, Thailand politics and democratic processes will have gained a leap year in evolution and that's a good thing. As long as it remains peaceful.

[Plus]

I, too, don't see any problems in visiting the rally site. It's sreaming "Taksin Awk Pai" that might be construed as meddling with Thai politics.

[ilyushin]

They just want an opportunity to change the government. At least have some say.

Great idea and noble concept, except in this day and age you do that by running candidates and winning seats so you can form the government or a strong opposition and then you have some say. At the moment only the TRT is campaigning everyone else stagnant and looking to some other party to change the government for them, be that other party the EC, the Privy Council, the military or the Monarchy. Changing the government in this way is a big step backward into the past history of Thailand, not a step forward.

The constitutional changes required to make a democratic election possible must be addressed and this is where the people want to be heard ( pressure). They don't have many choices. Yes, there are the other powers, but they are stronger and able to provide immediate solutions to the deadlock. They ( demostrators and most Thais) want an election where party members can change parties, improve party lines, campaign and pave way for a wider selection of political agendas for a multi-party government not just TRT.

Noble and great were my true intentions!

[lukamar]

I was unusually impressed with Chavalit's odd statesman like comments in the Bkk Post yesterday (particularily the highlighted bit below). PAD giving an ultimatum is ridiculous and a bit dangerous. I'm all for peaceful protest or for democratically voting 'no' on the ballot box to voice one's displeasure but ultimatums aren't the way.

I also found his thoughts interesting and well thought out.

My personal take on PAD is they are a bit caught up in themselves at the moment and feel they have more support than they may actually have. With this latest 48 hour ultimatum PAD may well have overstepped the comfortable limits that they have been given and indeed ventured into dangerous waters. There is a fine line between the act protesting and the act of subverting.

[Miaow]

BANGKOK: -- Anti-Thaksin demonstrators led by the People's Alliance for Democracy (PAD) gave an ultimatum Tuesday evening that caretaker Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra resigns within 48

Or what ?

Hold up traffic yet again,

What a bunch of frustrated goofs...Whatever Thaksin did wrong, they're doing even worst for the country at this point...

Pathetic...

Afraid I cannot agree. These people could not in a million years do worse than Thaksin. As for being a goof (s) Thaksin is one of the biggest jokes to ever be visited on a country.

If you think these people are doing wrong please think back to the people in 1973, 1976 and 1992 who were influential in ridding the country of the monkeys then in power, the people now are doing their best to see that the wrongs of the past are not repeated adinfinitum.

To the people who are now pushing for Thaksins ouster we should all take our collective hats off to you.

Agree! What are they doing wrong? They just want an opportunity to change the government. At least have some say. Thaksin has had his chance. A new government will be created out of the mess left by Doc Tox. The PAD cannot establish any long term plans until they see the internal damage to the central government and system which has been closed to public.

Oh Well...I'm afraid i can't agree either...I think they're just a bunch of jaleous politicians thirsty for power ...They are as much of a comedy as Thaksin is, look what's happening now..Another deadline???....Pathetic, yes!!! How many leading opposition parties have we seen in history using the freedom call and no corruption bullshit and peace and blablabla reason to oust the ruling party? And then do the same god ###### thing again?

America is a great exemple here

My point is that this political turmoil caused by Sondhi right now is becomeing a greater joke than Thaksin himself. Just really hope no blood will be shed...

[Plus]

I agree. Unless they have something up their sleeve. Strange ultimatum - 48 hours or ...., we will tell you later.

Any ideas what their plans might be?

[Plus]

I think they're just a bunch of jaleous politicians thirsty for power

Why do you think so? They aren't politicians to begin with!

[Insight]

I think they're just a bunch of jaleous politicians thirsty for power

Why do you think so? They aren't politicians to begin with!

My thoughts exactly

Don't fully understand the opposition to Shondi's latest move. The PAD have made it perfectly clear what they have wanted all along - Thaksin's resignation. Thaksin has stood firm, but so have these guys, and they're now taking it to the next level, directly seeking royal intervention from HRH.

People might be getting tired of it all, but I don't think that also means support for the PAD is wayning. If watching the ASTV stream isn't evidence enough, I'm pretty sure the turnout for the latest rally on the 25th March will be conclusive of this.

Don't forget that these rallies are now also getting coverage on terrestrial Thai TV - which is a first in Thai democratic history.

[Miaow]

I think they're just a bunch of jaleous politicians thirsty for power

Why do you think so? They aren't politicians to begin with!

Well whatever you call them...This whole crisis sure brings out negative aspects about Thai rak Thai's methods, but they haven't convince me of anything yet, pointing the finger constantly at someone isn't really constructive, Of course they have such good reasons to oppose the ruling goverment, but their tactics are getting quite desperate and smell very fishy and selfish to me...Sondhi's motivation against Thaksin is more on a personal level than on a political one and therefore it discredits whatever good reasons he might bring up to back up his personnal vendetta......Correct me if i'm wrong, but the Democrats didn't convince much people last year that they had a better plan for Thailand than Thaksin did...Nor did any other party...

[Miaow]

And No, i am not a fan of Thaksin

[Jai Dee]

The opposition is just jealous that he got away with such a grandiose scheme tax free and now they wany to be in a position to do the same thing. For all the hoopla, the opposition is no better than the TRT party. It is all just a matter of which group of corrupt Bangkok cronies gets the biggest peice of the pie. The opposition is in awe of just how big a piece of the pie Taksin was able to take of the plate and now they all want a big piece too. In the end, nothing will change, profits will be taken out of the country by the elite and the mass of folks in the rural areas as well as the urban poor will be exactly where they are today.

To date I have not offered a personal opinion in any of the threads about the current political scene in Thailand, however I firmly believe that this is closest to the real truth.

Having said that, I will now revert to posting bulletins as they become available.

Personal comments finis.

[Miaow]

The opposition is just jealous that he got away with such a grandiose scheme tax free and now they wany to be in a position to do the same thing. For all the hoopla, the opposition is no better than the TRT party. It is all just a matter of which group of corrupt Bangkok cronies gets the biggest peice of the pie. The opposition is in awe of just how big a piece of the pie Taksin was able to take of the plate and now they all want a big piece too. In the end, nothing will change, profits will be taken out of the country by the elite and the mass of folks in the rural areas as well as the urban poor will be exactly where they are today.

To date I have not offered a personal opinion in any of the threads about the current political scene in Thailand, however I firmly believe that this is closest to the real truth.

Sure agree on that one as well...

[lukamar]

Now, I may be a bit thick Lukamar... but from what I understand, it isn't about changing the Govt per say, it's about changing the leader (who some feel has made himself irremovable under current 'voting' erm, tactics').

Thick, this is Thai politics everyone is thick, it has more twists and turns than a soap opera. The way I see it is by removing TS you are in essence removing the TRT as well. TS seems to be the cement holding the TRT together. If you were an opposition party you would gain considerably politically from TS's removal.

I gather the hope afterwards is, it may be possible to evolve the institutions of democracy which he ultimately controls under the current impasse (to deny this is admitting ignorance). Some would prefer the staus quo. Some have higher aspirations for Thailand's future

I would hope that once the dust settles that some form positive of change happens as well. Right now all the parties involved are dug in and unwilling to budge and it would probably not be a good time because of all the heated rhetoric for them to even try and work something out.

Given today's PAD ultimatum and Thaksin's call to bring 'his supporters' to the anti-camp at Govt house, someone's gotta blink here and soon... (doubtfull with BIG FACE, fragile egos and agendas at stake)

I won't try and defend either action as an exercise in logical thinking, I think you can put the Stupid stamp on them both. Both actions are wrong. The last thing i want to see is a physical confrontation but i get the feeling that some on both sides would like that to happen.

Me? I'm just a guest but I suspect after the dust settles, Thailand politics and democratic processes will have gained a leap year in evolution and that's a good thing. As long as it remains peaceful.

My wife and my son are both Thai so I feel I have a vested interest in seeing the country stable. I would rather see TS in power and the country stable than see him out of power and a see some power vacuum make things substantially worse than they are with the present government.

[Miaow]

In the end, nothing will change, profits will be taken out of the country by the elite and the mass of folks in the rural areas as well as the urban poor will be exactly where they are today.

And on and on goes the political game...Or whatever you wanna call it

[sierra01]

Now, I may be a bit thick Lukamar... but from what I understand, it isn't about changing the Govt per say, it's about changing the leader (who some feel has made himself irremovable under current 'voting' erm, tactics').

I gather the hope afterwards is, it may be possible to evolve the institutions of democracy which he ultimately controls under the current impasse (to deny this is admitting ignorance). Some would prefer the staus quo. Some have higher aspirations for Thailand's future

Given today's PAD ultimatum and Thaksin's call to bring 'his supporters' to the anti-camp at Govt house, someone's gotta blink here and soon... (doubtfull with BIG FACE, fragile egos and agendas at stake)

Me? I'm just a guest but I suspect after the dust settles, Thailand politics and democratic processes will have gained a leap year in evolution and that's a good thing. As long as it remains peaceful.

That is my understanding as well, someone in a previous post said that changing the PM is akin to changing the party, without Toxin TRT will fall apart. Isn't that TRT's problem? They put him there, they all sat back and let him gradually control everything, no one stood up to say that this isn't a very good idea (no doubt afraid he'll lose his share of the booty). If Toxin goes and TRT falls apart and gets kicked out of power they only have themselves to blame.