Night Of The Body-Snatchers

[chrisinth]

I am down here in Rayong district (Ban Chang) this weekend working. Last night, as per usual down here, the sirens were shrieking on the
rescue volunteer wagons as they sped to the accidents on either the 331, 31 or Sukhumvit. Almost every night you can hear them usually between 22:00 and 02:00.

The above is not really what this post is about, but rather a reminder to myself of the work these boys & girls do. This is the only fund that I donate to in Thailand, yet I am slightly embarrassed to say that I know very little about them. That it is a volunteer organization I know, but who
donates to keep them running and what sort of training do they get? As anybody who has worked at accident scenes and seen the carnage that can happen, it certainly isn’t a job for everyone; what motivates them in this service?

So, the thread is two-fold really, on one hand to show my recognition and respect for these people, and on the other to ask for some information
about the rescue organization in general.

And as a footnote to any critics of this service, I pray to God that none of you ever have to meet them when they are working. Accidents happen,
it doesn’t have to be your fault…………..

[thaipod]

Yes pray to God you never have to meet them , most of them do not have any first aid back ground of life support equipment . A friend of mine just about lost everything being rescued by them when he was unconscious and woke up with two guys going through his wallet and one taking his watch off his wrist .

[chrisinth]

Yes pray to God you never have to meet them , most of them do not have any first aid back ground of life support equipment . A friend of mine just about lost everything being rescued by them when he was unconscious and woke up with two guys going through his wallet and one taking his watch off his wrist .

Well, that didn't take too long for the negative side to show! Part of the OP was asking what sort of training these guys have, or rather to what level their training is at. I would seriously doubt that they have any technical life support equipment in their wagons and that their initial task is immediate first aid and stabilizing.

The 3 occasions that I have had any connection of them operating were:

1. Two friends rescued from an up-turned pickup in a klong; the klong was half full (or half empty depending on your outlook). Delivered to hospital with no serious injuries.

2. Customer in our bar/restaurant collapsed and when she became conscious complained about tingling in the left arm and chest pains. The ambulance was called (as were the 'body-snatchers') and arrived 15 minutes after she had been taken to hospital by the volunteers. Turned out it was salt deficiency and not a stroke so no major problem, but in this case it was the response time that could have mattered.

3. Friend T-boned crossing a highway (on green) by a pick-up, he was on a 750cc bike. Unconscious with broken hip and both legs, internal bleeding. Stabilized and taken to hospital, without doubt saving his life.

In all 3 cases above, nothing was missing from their personal possessions. This is not saying it doesn't happen, but in my case I have only read about it (on forums) and not witnessed or heard about it first hand.

To me the big question is would we be better off without the service? I don't think so.............

[rubberduck]

Sometimes this 'rescue' teams fight with eachother over an injured because they both want to receive the premium from the hospital. They drive like idiots to make more money.

Perhaps there are different kind of teams, good ones and bad ones etc.

[candypants]

i suspect that many who have opinions on these individuals, have little real knowledge or first hand experience of them

[candypants]

Yes pray to God you never have to meet them , most of them do not have any first aid back ground of life support equipment . A friend of mine just about lost everything being rescued by them when he was unconscious and woke up with two guys going through his wallet and one taking his watch off his wrist .

indeed, why would any EMT be likely to remove the watch and check the identity of a victim.

[rookball]

if you could read and frequent local forums like pantip, cm cub, thai scooter etc you would come across all sort of horror stories on them. i could faintly remember there was some sort of show in channel 7 that expose some of their dirty acts.

not all of them are bad, but there is a reason they have such awful nicknames. primary, many shows little to no respect to the dead. they posted photographs of the dead online, on facebook, even those that appeared to be semi nude. they also deny medical treatment and purposely causing death of the victim by taking a longer route. it was said they had more money earn for dead victims. sometimes back a truck was photographed stationary in a mooban with a victim in purpose causing its death due to blood loss. the pic is in many local forums

but likewise like a previous member said, i had no first hand experiences with them.

2 months earlier chn 7 had a lakorn drama on these guys and apparently the rival of them pull off dirty acts. its not true why do them have such bad reps in media, forum, facebook and even drama? there is no smoke without fire.

but like everything, there are the good ones and bad ones

Edited May 12, 2013 by rookball

[philw]

I have had many first hand experiences with the various rescue foundations in Chiangmai and ALL were good.

They are as good as they can be, given the limitations of their kit and training and having heard all the horror stories over the last 23 years, I have NEVER met a witness or victim of the "horror" stories.

Have heard a lot of <deleted> in bars though.........

If i was injured on the road, i don't think i'd be moaning about the state of the pickup that got me to hospital and saved my life.

Many are volunteers and unpaid and doing this for the same reason people join the RNLI.

Good luck to them and for sure they have saved very many lives.

[geriatrickid]

i suspect that many who have opinions on these individuals, have little real knowledge or first hand experience of them

I have an opinion. The majority are poorly trained and should not be providing "first aid". Often, they do more damage than good. However, my negative view is tempered by the reality that sometimes they are the only option available and that the ambulance services are not much better as the nurses dispatched in the wagons are not trained in trauma care.

Sometimes the scoop and run strategy is the best one when it comes to heart attacks or poisonings. These guys also deal with some horrible carnage responding when people are mangled or worse squirming, still alive with their guts hanging out and with limbs s severed and squashed crying in agony. It is stressful work that leaves psychological damage. Until Thailand provides coordinated EMS services, it is all we have and it is better than nothing.

[pattayadingo]

I have had personal experience with a rescue team.

I wrote off my car. Luckily, I was able to get out.

Several police vehicles drove past the scene of the accident and not one of them stopped. Yet in minutes a rescue team arrived on scene and they took care of me, cleaning off the blood, bandaging me up and generally taking care to make sure I was okay. They then took me to the nearest hospital, got me onto a trolley, made sure the staff understood what had happened and they left.

Were they experts? I have no idea. Did they care and were they caring? Yes.

No-one else was there to help. There were plenty of people about but they were too busy making movies and taking photos of myself and of the accident. Obviously the police did not care either.

[chrisinth]

I have had personal experience with a rescue team.

I wrote off my car. Luckily, I was able to get out.

Several police vehicles drove past the scene of the accident and not one of them stopped. Yet in minutes a rescue team arrived on scene and they took care of me, cleaning off the blood, bandaging me up and generally taking care to make sure I was okay. They then took me to the nearest hospital, got me onto a trolley, made sure the staff understood what had happened and they left.

Were they experts? I have no idea. Did they care and were they caring? Yes.

No-one else was there to help. There were plenty of people about but they were too busy making movies and taking photos of myself and of the accident. Obviously the police did not care either.

Thanks for that PD. Incidents like this are the reason I like to recognize and respect them for what they do, in that they are normally there when needed.

I am the same as you, I have no idea how much training these people have, but as long as they can provide immediate first aid, with a fast response time then they are going to save lives.

[Scully]

I know they piloted a scheme of Emergency Medical Technicians in Khon Kaen some time ago. It is still up and running, a girl I know who is a EMT works in A&E and is on ambulance call and goes out in an equipped ambulance. She has had a few years at college to get this job but works many hours for buttons.

I don't know if any other areas do it though, it's highly likely they do as it was, and still is a big sucess. All down to money I suppose

[NoshowJones]

I have had many first hand experiences with the various rescue foundations in Chiangmai and ALL were good.

They are as good as they can be, given the limitations of their kit and training and having heard all the horror stories over the last 23 years, I have NEVER met a witness or victim of the "horror" stories.

Have heard a lot of <deleted> in bars though.........

If i was injured on the road, i don't think i'd be moaning about the state of the pickup that got me to hospital and saved my life.

Many are volunteers and unpaid and doing this for the same reason people join the RNLI.

Good luck to them and for sure they have saved very many lives.

Stickman interviewed a volunteer about 3 years ago in his column, I believe he was a Farang, I remember thinking he did an excellent job, had an ambulance which I think was paid for by public donations. If I remember right, this volunteer worked unpaid.

[kannot]

I have had personal experience with a rescue team.

I wrote off my car. Luckily, I was able to get out.

Several police vehicles drove past the scene of the accident and not one of them stopped. Yet in minutes a rescue team arrived on scene and they took care of me, cleaning off the blood, bandaging me up and generally taking care to make sure I was okay. They then took me to the nearest hospital, got me onto a trolley, made sure the staff understood what had happened and they left.

Were they experts? I have no idea. Did they care and were they caring? Yes.

No-one else was there to help. There were plenty of people about but they were too busy making movies and taking photos of myself and of the accident. Obviously the police did not care either.

Yes a sad portrayal when they start making movies and posting them, can only hope one day there Mum appears on of those sites to ram the messave home to them.

[lomatopo]

http://www.eugenegoesthailand.com/?p=781

http://www.eugenegoesthailand.com/?p=10956/

http://travel.cnn.com/bangkok/none/bangkoks-reallife-body-snatchers-642128

http://andrewmarshall.com/articles/bangkok-bodysnatchers-2/

[chrisinth]

http://www.eugenegoesthailand.com/?p=781

http://www.eugenegoesthailand.com/?p=10956/

http://travel.cnn.com/bangkok/none/bangkoks-reallife-body-snatchers-642128

http://andrewmarshall.com/articles/bangkok-bodysnatchers-2/

Hey lomatopo, thanks for your time and the links...................

Shame about the really glammed up one from travel.cnn.com. No wonder anyone gets a bad reputation with second rate novel material like that.

That said, a debate/discussion should have the 3 sides available, the For, the Against & the Truth...............

[pogal]

My friend told me I should reply to this even though Im bored of reading the same old ignorant comments, so here goes. (I'll copy and save this so I can paste it in next time this same old story flares up)... but ... I will say I am surprised that there are a lot of positive educated comments this time, good on you guys for realizing what a real volunteer is and how good most of these guys really are

Firstly, thanks to "Pessimistic Optimist" for your kindness in donating to these groups but I would say that if you want an alternative to donating to the organisation's administration, that you buy petrol vouchers, medical equipment, such as surgical gloves, collars, bandages, or even introduce yourself to your local volunteers and see what they need to help them do a better job.

Secondly, To everyone else who has told negative stories of "people they know" I would say to you that you should listen to both sides of the story or at least try to validate it!

The so called "body snatchers" are actually not allowed to transport or even touch a dead body without the police or registered (and paid) body collector being there. Only in the Tsunami were volunteers allowed to transport bodies. The police registered body collectors called "Nor-Kade" are responsible for the photographing, fingerprinting and transportation of bodies in Thailand (until they are handed over to the families).

So anyone with a story about volunteers moving bodies, not offering medical treatment until they die etc are completely ... misguided!. It illegal for them to do so, and so your story is immediately null and void!

Pessimistic optimistic, you asked to know more about these volunteers. I have worked with them every single day for 12 years and so want to tell you about them. In every organisation and community there are the good and the bad, even our own farang community here in Thailand, there are thieves, murders, pedophiles, rapists, etc. but I would guess that the people commenting here would be deeply offended if they were classified in this group merely for being part of the farang community here in Thailand!??? So that brings me to the point that not all of the 50,000+ registered volunteers in Thailand are good guys! Amazing but true. But I would say they are a lot better than the police or government! or even the farang community for that matter! Some of these volunteers spend up to 50% of their own salaries running rescue vehicles! Would YOU do that!? They receive NOTHING in return! Most do not even do it for Karma reasons! SO not even spiritual return! Most of them are true ALTRUISTS! I think there is no other society in the world that has that many true altruists! They pay for their vehicles, equipment, petrol, uniform, etc, they only thing the foundation gives them is the ID card (which they have to laminate themselves!!!), these guys bring a different meaning to the word "volunteers"~! In western countries, "volunteers" are given vehicles, uniforms, etc., and sometimes even a stipend! In Thailand, they are not considered "volunteers"! They are considered "low-wage earners"!!!!

Someone made a comment about getting money. It is illegal to accept money from anyone as a volunteer. I will admit that some private hospitals do pay between 200-500 baht illegally to volunteers. Some accept, some do not. In these cases though 200 baht for all your time, equipment and petrol is still below cost! Think about it! But most of our work is for the government hospitals anyway and no payment is ever received from them. At first I was against this idea but when I got to realize what these guys do and pay for, I think its not enough! My volunteer friends receive salaries of between 10,000 and 30,000 baht. They spend over 40 hours a week helping others, spend up to half of their salaries, they don't drink or do drugs, they have families, they are friendly and courteous, and often risk their own lives to help others. I trust them with my life (Honestly I wouldn't do that with 99% of other Thai's I know). "Generally" I find the average Thai untrustworthy, selfish, and uncaring, only these volunteer friends have managed to keep my faith in Thai people. I have also have had volunteer friends die helping others, one of them just 3 nights ago in Bang Plee. For all these reasons mentioned (and more) I take great offense at people who don't really know anything, criticizing them.

Moving on... There are 2 major rescue groups in Thailand, one is Poh Teck Tung and the other is Ruamkatanyu (who I volunteer for). These 2 groups do not fight, as some people think. On the contrary, they often assist each other in major accidents and most have friends that belong to both groups. These 2 groups are the only one's registered with the police to do .... the police's job!, ...that is photograph, fingerprint, etc. There are other smaller rescue groups that operate and often make problems for the 2 big groups. There is no reason for them to exist, except, corruption. The police and government allow them to operate because they get kickbacks, not from the rescue work but from donations from the public to their charity. Unfortunately most Thai's do not even know what I am telling you here. Don't feel bad you don't know all this because actually most Thai's also don't know, they think all we do is pick up dead bodies when in fact we are not even allowed to do that! Bizzare!

Training: I can only speak for the 2 major groups when I say all volunteers MUST undergo government first aid courses operated by Narenthorn or Erawan or the Emergency Medical Council of Thailand. So once again those who say volunteers are not trained are wrong.

About theft, well I guess it happens in every community but I do want to relate a "FIRST HAND" experience I had when I turned up to an accident that was already being taken care of, I saw with my own eyes, a member of the public hand over a wallet they found meters away from the victim the rescue worker then gave it to the victim who opened it and said the money was gone and started to blame the rescue workers who obviously hadn't removed the money. I stepped in an explained what I had seen and that seemed to appease the victim but perhaps if I hadn't of been there, a new story would have started.

I have also personally been involved in a case were the victim lied about having 30,000 baht in his wallet. He was later convicted for the offense.

Yes I agree that first aid is not enough for rescue workers but then it is the government that needs to address this problem, why do people blame these poor volunteers for doing something that 99.9% of people in the world would not do! These are the only people I want to be friends with and spend my life with in Thailand. Not Thai bar girls, arrogant upper class Thai's who look down on others, not the police, army, or government, not a bunch of drunken farang friends, I want to be with a bunch of true altruists who think the same way I do about life.

Pessimistic Optimist, I can only really speak for myself and my close friends when I say the reason we do it is because "its the right thing to do". Im not religious in any way, and my friends are Buddhists and Muslim but they have always told me the same thing, "its the right thing to do". Doing something with your life to make a small difference in the world is just right!

Now I've spent my only afternoon off writing this I will not be back to answer any comments sorry but I think I've covered most of what was asked about?

BTW, I DO and CAN accept money since I am a registered charity in New Zealand so feel free to donate (we need a new ambulance for the Sukumvhit area!) and thanks again to those of you who are eduated and aware of the situation and have written in support of these hero's.

www.bkkfreeambulance.com

[Suradit69]

i suspect that many who have opinions on these individuals, have little real knowledge or first hand experience of them

Unfortunately that sort of sums up most of the negative comments and Thai bashing on TV and it feeds on itself. Someone on one of the forums fabricates or imagines something to bolster his subjective opinion and then that fabrication becomes catalogued as a "fact" for future reference.

Despite what's portrayed on television dramas, urban emergency services in the more advanced countries do not generally arrive on the scene within seconds of an accident either and the cost of that relative speed and the presence of those better qualified personnel is enough to give you a heart attack if you hadn't already had one.

As shown below, even a couple of years ago in New York it would cost you over Baht 30,000 to get collected off the pavement and delivered to a hospital. I'm sure if everyone in Thailand was willing/able to pay that, the services would improve greatly ... but then many of us came to Thailand because we couldn't afford life in places like New York.

In the UK:

THE ambulance service has apologised after an elderly woman lay in the road for two

hours before an ambulance arrived.

http://www.dailyecho.co.uk/archive/2012/12/19/News(hc_news)/10117445.Elderly_woman_lay_in_road_for_two_hours_after_accident___ambulance_service_apologise/

In New York:

No one can be refused care in an emergency room. This is a beautiful thing for the spirit, not so beautiful for the pocketbook, because those who can pay cover the costs for those who can’t. The average cost of an ambulance ride is $1,099, according to the 2011 Mayor’s report.

http://thewgnews.com/2013/05/emergency-exit-five-things-you-should-know-if-god-forbid-you-ever/

[HeijoshinCool]

Yeah, like Thaipod said, pray you never meet them.

On Koh Chang, I stopped to give aid to a biker who went off the road. I have an EMT 2 certification. The guy was in baaaaad shape. Deeply unconscious, probably been there for a couple of hours. I applied the appropriate first aid and was holding his head, keeping his neck in traction, while I waited for "help."

Pick-ups screech up, park on a downhill, blind curve. In the road. In the dark. No flares. Nothing. Push me out of the way, roll the poor guy onto a stretcher, and only then apply a collar. A soft collar at that.

No idea if the guy survived.

[Suradit69]

One of the reasons many of us choose to live in Thailand is because the cost of living is cheaper. If everyone was willing/able to pay Baht 30,000 for ambulance services, as would be the case in urban America for example, they'd probably be a great deal better. Unfortunately, a lower cost of living means cutting edge facilities and highly trained staff aren't going to be available in many areas, including emergency services.

As someone said, we should all pray we never need emergency medical assistance, but this is a developing economy in which most of the population can't afford even basic care and I doubt most of us would want to pay Baht 30,000 to get carried to the hospital ... until we desperately needed it. There have been several threads recently in which many people feel angry that they might even have to pay for medical insurance.

Edited May 14, 2013 by Suradit69

[chrisinth]

My friend told me I should reply to this even though Im bored of reading the same old ignorant comments, so here goes. (I'll copy and save this so I can paste it in next time this same old story flares up)... but ... I will say I am surprised that there are a lot of positive educated comments this time, good on you guys for realizing what a real volunteer is and how good most of these guys really are

Firstly, thanks to "Pessimistic Optimist" for your kindness in donating to these groups but I would say that if you want an alternative to donating to the organisation's administration, that you buy petrol vouchers, medical equipment, such as surgical gloves, collars, bandages, or even introduce yourself to your local volunteers and see what they need to help them do a better job.

Secondly, To everyone else who has told negative stories of "people they know" I would say to you that you should listen to both sides of the story or at least try to validate it!

The so called "body snatchers" are actually not allowed to transport or even touch a dead body without the police or registered (and paid) body collector being there. Only in the Tsunami were volunteers allowed to transport bodies. The police registered body collectors called "Nor-Kade" are responsible for the photographing, fingerprinting and transportation of bodies in Thailand (until they are handed over to the families).

So anyone with a story about volunteers moving bodies, not offering medical treatment until they die etc are completely ... misguided!. It illegal for them to do so, and so your story is immediately null and void!

Pessimistic optimistic, you asked to know more about these volunteers. I have worked with them every single day for 12 years and so want to tell you about them. In every organisation and community there are the good and the bad, even our own farang community here in Thailand, there are thieves, murders, pedophiles, rapists, etc. but I would guess that the people commenting here would be deeply offended if they were classified in this group merely for being part of the farang community here in Thailand!??? So that brings me to the point that not all of the 50,000+ registered volunteers in Thailand are good guys! Amazing but true. But I would say they are a lot better than the police or government! or even the farang community for that matter! Some of these volunteers spend up to 50% of their own salaries running rescue vehicles! Would YOU do that!? They receive NOTHING in return! Most do not even do it for Karma reasons! SO not even spiritual return! Most of them are true ALTRUISTS! I think there is no other society in the world that has that many true altruists! They pay for their vehicles, equipment, petrol, uniform, etc, they only thing the foundation gives them is the ID card (which they have to laminate themselves!!!), these guys bring a different meaning to the word "volunteers"~! In western countries, "volunteers" are given vehicles, uniforms, etc., and sometimes even a stipend! In Thailand, they are not considered "volunteers"! They are considered "low-wage earners"!!!!

Someone made a comment about getting money. It is illegal to accept money from anyone as a volunteer. I will admit that some private hospitals do pay between 200-500 baht illegally to volunteers. Some accept, some do not. In these cases though 200 baht for all your time, equipment and petrol is still below cost! Think about it! But most of our work is for the government hospitals anyway and no payment is ever received from them. At first I was against this idea but when I got to realize what these guys do and pay for, I think its not enough! My volunteer friends receive salaries of between 10,000 and 30,000 baht. They spend over 40 hours a week helping others, spend up to half of their salaries, they don't drink or do drugs, they have families, they are friendly and courteous, and often risk their own lives to help others. I trust them with my life (Honestly I wouldn't do that with 99% of other Thai's I know). "Generally" I find the average Thai untrustworthy, selfish, and uncaring, only these volunteer friends have managed to keep my faith in Thai people. I have also have had volunteer friends die helping others, one of them just 3 nights ago in Bang Plee. For all these reasons mentioned (and more) I take great offense at people who don't really know anything, criticizing them.

Moving on... There are 2 major rescue groups in Thailand, one is Poh Teck Tung and the other is Ruamkatanyu (who I volunteer for). These 2 groups do not fight, as some people think. On the contrary, they often assist each other in major accidents and most have friends that belong to both groups. These 2 groups are the only one's registered with the police to do .... the police's job!, ...that is photograph, fingerprint, etc. There are other smaller rescue groups that operate and often make problems for the 2 big groups. There is no reason for them to exist, except, corruption. The police and government allow them to operate because they get kickbacks, not from the rescue work but from donations from the public to their charity. Unfortunately most Thai's do not even know what I am telling you here. Don't feel bad you don't know all this because actually most Thai's also don't know, they think all we do is pick up dead bodies when in fact we are not even allowed to do that! Bizzare!

Training: I can only speak for the 2 major groups when I say all volunteers MUST undergo government first aid courses operated by Narenthorn or Erawan or the Emergency Medical Council of Thailand. So once again those who say volunteers are not trained are wrong.

About theft, well I guess it happens in every community but I do want to relate a "FIRST HAND" experience I had when I turned up to an accident that was already being taken care of, I saw with my own eyes, a member of the public hand over a wallet they found meters away from the victim the rescue worker then gave it to the victim who opened it and said the money was gone and started to blame the rescue workers who obviously hadn't removed the money. I stepped in an explained what I had seen and that seemed to appease the victim but perhaps if I hadn't of been there, a new story would have started.

I have also personally been involved in a case were the victim lied about having 30,000 baht in his wallet. He was later convicted for the offense.

Yes I agree that first aid is not enough for rescue workers but then it is the government that needs to address this problem, why do people blame these poor volunteers for doing something that 99.9% of people in the world would not do! These are the only people I want to be friends with and spend my life with in Thailand. Not Thai bar girls, arrogant upper class Thai's who look down on others, not the police, army, or government, not a bunch of drunken farang friends, I want to be with a bunch of true altruists who think the same way I do about life.

Pessimistic Optimist, I can only really speak for myself and my close friends when I say the reason we do it is because "its the right thing to do". Im not religious in any way, and my friends are Buddhists and Muslim but they have always told me the same thing, "its the right thing to do". Doing something with your life to make a small difference in the world is just right!

Now I've spent my only afternoon off writing this I will not be back to answer any comments sorry but I think I've covered most of what was asked about?

BTW, I DO and CAN accept money since I am a registered charity in New Zealand so feel free to donate (we need a new ambulance for the Sukumvhit area!) and thanks again to those of you who are eduated and aware of the situation and have written in support of these hero's.

www.bkkfreeambulance.com

Seriously, thanks for that pogal, it views them (yourself included) in the light that it should.

I also recognise the need for medical equipment and petrol donations as well. Again, thanks for your time in replying.

Chris

[philw]

My friend told me I should reply to this even though Im bored of reading the same old ignorant comments, so here goes. (I'll copy and save this so I can paste it in next time this same old story flares up)... but ... I will say I am surprised that there are a lot of positive educated comments this time, good on you guys for realizing what a real volunteer is and how good most of these guys really are

Firstly, thanks to "Pessimistic Optimist" for your kindness in donating to these groups but I would say that if you want an alternative to donating to the organisation's administration, that you buy petrol vouchers, medical equipment, such as surgical gloves, collars, bandages, or even introduce yourself to your local volunteers and see what they need to help them do a better job.

Secondly, To everyone else who has told negative stories of "people they know" I would say to you that you should listen to both sides of the story or at least try to validate it!

The so called "body snatchers" are actually not allowed to transport or even touch a dead body without the police or registered (and paid) body collector being there. Only in the Tsunami were volunteers allowed to transport bodies. The police registered body collectors called "Nor-Kade" are responsible for the photographing, fingerprinting and transportation of bodies in Thailand (until they are handed over to the families).

So anyone with a story about volunteers moving bodies, not offering medical treatment until they die etc are completely ... misguided!. It illegal for them to do so, and so your story is immediately null and void!

Pessimistic optimistic, you asked to know more about these volunteers. I have worked with them every single day for 12 years and so want to tell you about them. In every organisation and community there are the good and the bad, even our own farang community here in Thailand, there are thieves, murders, pedophiles, rapists, etc. but I would guess that the people commenting here would be deeply offended if they were classified in this group merely for being part of the farang community here in Thailand!??? So that brings me to the point that not all of the 50,000+ registered volunteers in Thailand are good guys! Amazing but true. But I would say they are a lot better than the police or government! or even the farang community for that matter! Some of these volunteers spend up to 50% of their own salaries running rescue vehicles! Would YOU do that!? They receive NOTHING in return! Most do not even do it for Karma reasons! SO not even spiritual return! Most of them are true ALTRUISTS! I think there is no other society in the world that has that many true altruists! They pay for their vehicles, equipment, petrol, uniform, etc, they only thing the foundation gives them is the ID card (which they have to laminate themselves!!!), these guys bring a different meaning to the word "volunteers"~! In western countries, "volunteers" are given vehicles, uniforms, etc., and sometimes even a stipend! In Thailand, they are not considered "volunteers"! They are considered "low-wage earners"!!!!

Someone made a comment about getting money. It is illegal to accept money from anyone as a volunteer. I will admit that some private hospitals do pay between 200-500 baht illegally to volunteers. Some accept, some do not. In these cases though 200 baht for all your time, equipment and petrol is still below cost! Think about it! But most of our work is for the government hospitals anyway and no payment is ever received from them. At first I was against this idea but when I got to realize what these guys do and pay for, I think its not enough! My volunteer friends receive salaries of between 10,000 and 30,000 baht. They spend over 40 hours a week helping others, spend up to half of their salaries, they don't drink or do drugs, they have families, they are friendly and courteous, and often risk their own lives to help others. I trust them with my life (Honestly I wouldn't do that with 99% of other Thai's I know). "Generally" I find the average Thai untrustworthy, selfish, and uncaring, only these volunteer friends have managed to keep my faith in Thai people. I have also have had volunteer friends die helping others, one of them just 3 nights ago in Bang Plee. For all these reasons mentioned (and more) I take great offense at people who don't really know anything, criticizing them.

Moving on... There are 2 major rescue groups in Thailand, one is Poh Teck Tung and the other is Ruamkatanyu (who I volunteer for). These 2 groups do not fight, as some people think. On the contrary, they often assist each other in major accidents and most have friends that belong to both groups. These 2 groups are the only one's registered with the police to do .... the police's job!, ...that is photograph, fingerprint, etc. There are other smaller rescue groups that operate and often make problems for the 2 big groups. There is no reason for them to exist, except, corruption. The police and government allow them to operate because they get kickbacks, not from the rescue work but from donations from the public to their charity. Unfortunately most Thai's do not even know what I am telling you here. Don't feel bad you don't know all this because actually most Thai's also don't know, they think all we do is pick up dead bodies when in fact we are not even allowed to do that! Bizzare!

Training: I can only speak for the 2 major groups when I say all volunteers MUST undergo government first aid courses operated by Narenthorn or Erawan or the Emergency Medical Council of Thailand. So once again those who say volunteers are not trained are wrong.

About theft, well I guess it happens in every community but I do want to relate a "FIRST HAND" experience I had when I turned up to an accident that was already being taken care of, I saw with my own eyes, a member of the public hand over a wallet they found meters away from the victim the rescue worker then gave it to the victim who opened it and said the money was gone and started to blame the rescue workers who obviously hadn't removed the money. I stepped in an explained what I had seen and that seemed to appease the victim but perhaps if I hadn't of been there, a new story would have started.

I have also personally been involved in a case were the victim lied about having 30,000 baht in his wallet. He was later convicted for the offense.

Yes I agree that first aid is not enough for rescue workers but then it is the government that needs to address this problem, why do people blame these poor volunteers for doing something that 99.9% of people in the world would not do! These are the only people I want to be friends with and spend my life with in Thailand. Not Thai bar girls, arrogant upper class Thai's who look down on others, not the police, army, or government, not a bunch of drunken farang friends, I want to be with a bunch of true altruists who think the same way I do about life.

Pessimistic Optimist, I can only really speak for myself and my close friends when I say the reason we do it is because "its the right thing to do". Im not religious in any way, and my friends are Buddhists and Muslim but they have always told me the same thing, "its the right thing to do". Doing something with your life to make a small difference in the world is just right!

Now I've spent my only afternoon off writing this I will not be back to answer any comments sorry but I think I've covered most of what was asked about?

BTW, I DO and CAN accept money since I am a registered charity in New Zealand so feel free to donate (we need a new ambulance for the Sukumvhit area!) and thanks again to those of you who are eduated and aware of the situation and have written in support of these hero's.

www.bkkfreeambulance.com

Good post and well done and said.

[KuhnPaen]

Well, being that in Thai black magic, corpse fat and blood from homicide victims is in high demand--they have to get it somewhere. Just sayin'. At least that's where my mind goes when I hear the sirens. Pogal sounds beyond noble and altruistic. But I have yet to meet a Thai that did anything that wasn't motivated by some kind of reward--karmic or otherwise.

Edited May 14, 2013 by KuhnPaen

[MaxwellsDemon]

Pogal's spot on. I can confirm a lot of what he says as someone who's gone on many night shifts with Poh Teck Tung (not working with them, but on assignment as a photojournalist). A lot of the interviews my partner(s) have done have touched on many of the same topics being talked about (and rumoured about) here.

But yeah, Pogal's correct;

There are laws in place (and, even though it's Thailand, these rules ARE followed) to prevent anything disturbing or unnecessary to take place (theft, corpse-moving) and we are much better off with them here than without. A lot of them do this on their free time, and spend more hours riding the jerry-rigged pickup trucks than you do on Thaivisa every day, and they deserve a lot more recognition. They have good working relationships with the police and other emergency services, and are rarely seen as a pest or botherance, but in fact on the same level as the firemen and police and other first-reaction on-site people.

Some of the volunteers do get higher training on their own time and money, and it's recognized by the other team members, so that if one team member doesn't know what to do in a situation or is not comfortable with his or her skill set, they'll say, "I'm not going to handle a broken neck, get P. Somchai over here, he's trained for this," etc. The equipment they have is also just as varied - some of their vehicles are top-notch ambulances, but most are quite basic transportation. They are kept clean, though.

[Scully]

As I said Emergency Medical Technicians are available in Thailand, not just fling them into the back of a Pickup. I don't know which regions have them but they are trained and I would be interested which regions they cover, could save your life?.

http://phraethailand.com/what-you-should-know-about-emt-training/

[inapeartree]

[pogal]

Well, being that in Thai black magic, corpse fat and blood from homicide victims is in high demand--they have to get it somewhere. Just sayin'. At least that's where my mind goes when I hear the sirens. Pogal sounds beyond noble and altruistic. But I have yet to meet a Thai that did anything that wasn't motivated by some kind of reward--karmic or otherwise.

Khun Paen, please come and meet the guys I work with and see what they do and talk to them yourself. Call me on 0870181291 and arrange a date and time suitable for you. I really do want you to see what these guys do and who they are because for me, they are the epitome of traditional Thai-ness. I want you to understand what we are about, what we do and why we do it, and hopefully you will relate this to all your friends after. Im not sure where you are but we work from next to Major Ekamai. If that's not convenient I can arrange a place nearer you for others to meet. I do understand where you get your feelings from regarding nothing is done for free but after you have met these guys you will think differently about Thailand and Thai people. As I said before, these are the Thai people who have given me hope for Thailand since I do agree that not much is done in Thailand without reward but you can see for yourself by meeting them and talking with them. There are actually many Thai's out there who are completely altruistic.

Kind regards.

[lomatopo]

The was a show on TLC, maybe it was in the "Six Degrees" series, but the host ended up with a Farang in Bangkok who worked for one of these rescue agencies. When asked about the stack of ~ 40 coffins he said that would not be enough for that evening's requirements. I believe they were at the Ruamkatanyu Foundation next to Wat Hua Lamphong Temple.

[KuhnPaen]

Well, being that in Thai black magic, corpse fat and blood from homicide victims is in high demand--they have to get it somewhere. Just sayin'. At least that's where my mind goes when I hear the sirens. Pogal sounds beyond noble and altruistic. But I have yet to meet a Thai that did anything that wasn't motivated by some kind of reward--karmic or otherwise.

Khun Paen, please come and meet the guys I work with and see what they do and talk to them yourself. Call me on 0870181291 and arrange a date and time suitable for you. I really do want you to see what these guys do and who they are because for me, they are the epitome of traditional Thai-ness. I want you to understand what we are about, what we do and why we do it, and hopefully you will relate this to all your friends after. Im not sure where you are but we work from next to Major Ekamai. If that's not convenient I can arrange a place nearer you for others to meet. I do understand where you get your feelings from regarding nothing is done for free but after you have met these guys you will think differently about Thailand and Thai people. As I said before, these are the Thai people who have given me hope for Thailand since I do agree that not much is done in Thailand without reward but you can see for yourself by meeting them and talking with them. There are actually many Thai's out there who are completely altruistic.

Kind regards.

I just may take you up on that. Man, they broke the mold when they made you Pogal. Cheers

[mickjn]