Montclair Wine

[eezergood]

20 hours ago, xylophone said:

And quite timely too, what with the increasing cost of wine here and the increasing numbers of Montclair type wines on the market.

 

But for me it has another significance in as much as just the other evening I tried a glass of fruit wine (not the Siam winery producer which makes Montclair, but an Australian brand) and I was trying to see if it was as I remembered it when  I tried some a couple of years ago, then just a couple of nights later I was at dinner with friends and they produced a bottle of the Siam winery MarYsol Merlot so I thought I'd give that a try as well.

 

They both had the same thing in common which was, for me anyway, a lack of depth and taste, in fact I would describe them as both flat/dumb and uninspiring almost as if they were pasteurised, which had taken out the ability for the wine to develop. They were both alcoholic red drinks and that was it with no discernible flavours, nose or anything to identify the type of grape (not the fruit juice).

 

I wondered about the pasteurisation aspect because it would be something that would fit into this type of wine very well, because it won't spoil, nor will it age that well (by  that I mean age with certain complexities) but then I remembered that after drinking a few glasses of this in the past I used to get the fuzzy headache feeling in the morning which I had put down to overuse of sulphur dioxide.

 

The use of heat pasteurisation means that sulphites are not needed, so that theory sort of fell by the wayside, however I then wondered if the fruit juice was pasteurised and this made a lot more sense. To keep the product stable and stop it going off or harbouring any bacteria or the like, fruit juice is often pasteurised and if the wine had sulphites added to keep it stable and the fruit juice  was pasteurised, then that would be an answer.............. but then again I could be way off!!

 

Luckily enough I have been able to source some good wines via alternative supplies, none of which are fruit wines, so I suppose I have been spoilt with regards to taste and the development of some of the better wines.

 

Having said that who knows what the cost of even these will be when the new "tax laws" with regards to alcohol come into play in September?

Proper suppliers will carry stock before the new tax laws hit, we should be getting for info regarding these very very soon

 

[Denim]

On ‎19‎/‎7‎/‎2017 at 8:23 PM, Denim said:

Back to the Montclair topic. Just bought an 8 liter box from Macro for 1999 baht. That works out at about 114 baht a bottle. You might not rate it bit you can't say its a rip off.

 

 

 

Oops ........typo. I meant 1199 a box.

[xylophone]

On 7/21/2017 at 10:34 AM, Denim said:

Oops ........typo. I meant 1199 a box.

That's certainly very cheap if you like Montclair but it will take up a lot of room in the fridge if you're only going to drink two glasses a night (for medicinal purposes of course!!!!)

 

I did see those big casks for sale when I went to Super Cheap here in Phuket town yesterday and also noticed that their every day wines had increased in price a little, and I also noticed something I had never seen before and that was bottles of wine from New Zealand which also included fruit juice, much to my dismay.

 

Not only that one of them was a Pinot Noir with fruit juice added – – now why one would want to adulterate Pinot Noir with fruit juice is beyond me, because it is quite a finicky grape to grow and if treated well can produce some excellent wine and fetch a premium price, so I can only deduce from this that the wine produced by this winemaker was fairly substandard, hence the need to add fruit juice to it?

 

Now a question for those folks who come from Australia.........do you ever recall seeing these type of wines on the shelves in the shops in Oz? In my times there I have never seen them, nor have I seen them in NZ, but maybe they are now becoming the norm?

[GrantSmith]

On 7/21/2017 at 9:35 AM, eezergood said:

Proper suppliers will carry stock before the new tax laws hit, we should be getting for info regarding these very very soon

 

New tax to 'officially' take effect from September 16th, don't expect anyone to know what is going on until December or January next year. It will be interesting to see who raises their prices and by how much. 

 

On 7/22/2017 at 10:46 AM, xylophone said:

Now a question for those folks who come from Australia.........do you ever recall seeing these type of wines on the shelves in the shops in Oz? In my times there I have never seen them, nor have I seen them in NZ, but maybe they are now becoming the norm?

Are you talking about 'fruit wines' Xylo or Bag in Box stuff? If fruit wines, I have seen them before and they're usually kept 'out of sight' and gathering dust either high up on the shelves or on the lowest shelf somewhere down the back, occasionally they'd be kept for restaurants to use in cooking etc...

 

P.S Great to see this thread open up again. I thought it was buried deep within the archives...

[xylophone]

4 hours ago, GrantSmith said:

Are you talking about 'fruit wines' Xylo

Great to see you back also GS..........yes meaning the fruit wines as didn't think they would sell well in a country which often has wine surpluses and gets rid of them through "cleanskins" bottles and very cheap at that (and generally ok quality).

 

I don't see a market for them there, but maybe I'm wrong??

[madmitch]

Wish I had had some Montclair available yesterday as it might have stopped the GF opening a 2007 St Emilion Grand Cru to share with her friend! Fortunately there's half left so I've rescued that and will sample it in front of the TV this evening.

[xylophone]

1 hour ago, madmitch said:

Wish I had had some Montclair available yesterday as it might have stopped the GF opening a 2007 St Emilion Grand Cru to share with her friend! Fortunately there's half left so I've rescued that and will sample it in front of the TV this evening.

Sorry to hear that mm and know the feeling...............

 

A few years back when I had a good wine collection, an ex-girlfriend gained access to my house through an old key she had kept, and I didn't mind this because I was going to meet up with her and her friend later anyway, so waiting in the house wasn't a problem.

 

However I was a little later home than planned and when I got there they were into their second bottle of wine and as I walked through the door and saw this, I asked where they had gotten it from, fearing it was from my "cellar room" and sure enough the answer came back that they have gotten it from my "cellar room" but that I wasn't to worry because they had only started on the old dusty ones!!

 

Sure enough, they were slugging back two very high quality wines, as if it was stuff that you bought by the bucket!

[irishken]

Perhaps a silly questions guys but is their anyway of telling thats its a "fruit wine" from a normal wine. 

Maybe something on the label.?

[eezergood]

1 hour ago, irishken said:

Perhaps a silly questions guys but is their anyway of telling thats its a "fruit wine" from a normal wine. 

Maybe something on the label.?

WIll be stated as fruit

[xylophone]

2 hours ago, irishken said:

Perhaps a silly questions guys but is their anyway of telling thats its a "fruit wine" from a normal wine. 

Maybe something on the label.?

On the boxes/casks from Australia, South Africa and France it will be clearly stated in the description that the wine of whichever particular grape it is, is mixed with fruit juice.

 

On the boxes/casks which are produced by Siam winery here such as, Montclair, Mar Y Sol, Finca de....... and a few others, it will be very hard to spot although on the back of the box will be the words fruit wine if you look carefully.

 

The same goes with the bottled varieties from this winery although on a bottle on the back label the words fruit wine are very hard to spot. 

 

Not so with bottles from other countries, where on the back label the description will read about the same as the casks/boxes and state that this particular wine is mixed with fruit juice.

 

Very much a case of "buyer beware" especially when the likes of Siam winery don't really want you to know what you are drinking.

[irishken]

32 minutes ago, xylophone said:

On the boxes/casks from Australia, South Africa and France it will be clearly stated in the description that the wine of whichever particular grape it is, is mixed with fruit juice.

 

On the boxes/casks which are produced by Siam winery here such as, Montclair, Mar Y Sol, Finca de....... and a few others, it will be very hard to spot although on the back of the box will be the words fruit wine if you look carefully.

 

The same goes with the bottled varieties from this winery although on a bottle on the back label the words fruit wine are very hard to spot. 

 

Not so with bottles from other countries, where on the back label the description will read about the same as the casks/boxes and state that this particular wine is mixed with fruit juice.

 

Very much a case of "buyer beware" especially when the likes of Siam winery don't really want you to know what you are drinking.

Thanks for the advice. So is all or most of the wine sold in Thailand mixed with fruit juice or is it that the higher the price the more likely its proper wine.

Could a bottle of Jacobs Creek Shiraz costing 800 baht be mixed with fruit juice?

 

 

[xylophone]

12 minutes ago, irishken said:

Thanks for the advice. So is all or most of the wine sold in Thailand mixed with fruit juice or is it that the higher the price the more likely its proper wine.

Could a bottle of Jacobs Creek Shiraz costing 800 baht be mixed with fruit juice?

 

 

The Jacobs Creek Shiraz will not be mixed with fruit juice.

 

This is a general rule of thumb but of the bottles of wine available here generally speaking those under about 400 baht (perhaps 350 ish) are the usual suspects for added fruit juice, so inspect the back label carefully. One exception to this is a wine sold in Tesco's, World of Wines I think is on the label as is the particular grape variety, and that sells for around 350 baht and I don't believe it has fruit juice added.

 

All of the casks/boxes that I have seen out there these days are mixed with fruit juice, however apart from Montclair and its sister wines, they do state this quite clearly.

[eezergood]

New tax was advised at 2% only FYI all

[xylophone]

On 8/2/2017 at 8:40 PM, eezergood said:

New tax was advised at 2% only FYI all

Thanks EZ, but on what, how applied and how will (can) it affect what we pay for the wine??

 

Cheers!

[GrantSmith]

On 7/29/2017 at 7:17 PM, xylophone said:

Great to see you back also GS..........yes meaning the fruit wines as didn't think they would sell well in a country which often has wine surpluses and gets rid of them through "cleanskins" bottles and very cheap at that (and generally ok quality).

 

I don't see a market for them there, but maybe I'm wrong??

Yeah generally speaking fruit wines are generally only used in cooking, but because they obviously contain alcohol they can only be displayed in certain areas, otherwise there's really no market for them apart from the penny pinchers and "kids" looking for a cheap and quick way to get drunk..

 

On 8/2/2017 at 8:40 PM, eezergood said:

New tax was advised at 2% only FYI all

Yeah that was announced this week to help support the old folks (well support them to a cap of I think 4 billion baht.)

 

The revised excise tax calculation is a reconfiguration of the current formula. It takes away the current method of taking the higher amount of either alcohol by percentage or alcohol by volume, replacing the "or" with "and" to add an additional amount to the calculation.

In a nutshell, the amount of additional tax will generally be determined by the percentage of alcohol of a wine, the lower the alcohol content the lower the amount of tax to be paid. Then it will be up to the supply chain whether or not they (ultimately) pass this onto the consumer. 

 

Never a dull moment in the "sinful" items category...

[Moonlover]

On 9/14/2016 at 5:31 PM, xylophone said:

True but don't want to drink a bottle every night.........need a change to let the taste buds "recover/adjust"!!!

 

You'd also need a change to let your liver recover!

[xylophone]

On 8/5/2017 at 3:08 PM, Moonlover said:

You'd also need a change to let your liver recover!

Well that was certainly the case the other day when I was fortunate enough to get hold of a bottle of 2007 "Two Hands Harry and Edward's Garden" Shiraz from Langhorne Creek (Australia).

 

Well it was a beast of a wine and although it should have opened up in the 10 years since production, it hadn't and really didn't give me much at all other than the sensation of drinking a very alcoholic (16%) very extracted wine, and even though I only drank just over half a bottle of it, I did have a headache the next morning.

 

I needed to look for some wine which was going to be a little less harsh on the brain cells and body, and no, I didn't contemplate Montclair because although it doesn't give me the same sort of hangover, I do get a fuzzy head the next morning and I prefer wine not fruit wine.

 

I did see a wine in Big C today which I may well try and it is a 2015 Tempranillo (from Spain) at 450 baht a bottle so only 150 baht more than a bottle of Montclair and it may well be worth sampling as an everyday drinker.

[madmitch]

@xylophone. Tesco Lotus are selling Hardy's Bin 53 Shiraz, Chardonnay and a couple of other varieties at 399 baht. I think it's Hardy's bottom of the range brand but do you have any knowledge of this wine? Nothing on their own website. It sounds cheap enough to be a viable alternative to the fruit wines (which I don't buy). Their own Vineyards brand is perfectly drinkable at 379 baht. I was about to buy a bottle today until I realised it was one minute past two! Grrrr!

[xylophone]

7 minutes ago, madmitch said:

@xylophone. Tesco Lotus are selling Hardy's Bin 53 Shiraz, Chardonnay and a couple of other varieties at 399 baht. I think it's Hardy's bottom of the range brand but do you have any knowledge of this wine? Nothing on their own website. It sounds cheap enough to be a viable alternative to the fruit wines (which I don't buy). Their own Vineyards brand is perfectly drinkable at 379 baht. I was about to buy a bottle today until I realised it was one minute past two! Grrrr!

Thanks for the tip MM and I believe I have tasted it............not going to set the world alight but perfectly fine for everyday drinking (if it is the one I'm thinking about).

 

I think it is a level or two above the Hardy's VR range, which is the result of a blend of years if my memory serves me well (therefore no year of production/vintage stated on the label).

 

Will get along and try it as well as the Vineyards, World of Wines range.......doubt they will damage the grey matter as did the Two Hands Shiraz!

 

Let me know what you think about it.

[eezergood]

14 hours ago, xylophone said:

Thanks for the tip MM and I believe I have tasted it............not going to set the world alight but perfectly fine for everyday drinking (if it is the one I'm thinking about).

 

I think it is a level or two above the Hardy's VR range, which is the result of a blend of years if my memory serves me well (therefore no year of production/vintage stated on the label).

 

Will get along and try it as well as the Vineyards, World of Wines range.......doubt they will damage the grey matter as did the Two Hands Shiraz!

 

Let me know what you think about it.

Two hands does pack a punch 

[GrantSmith]

15 hours ago, xylophone said:

Well that was certainly the case the other day when I was fortunate enough to get hold of a bottle of 2007 "Two Hands Harry and Edward's Garden" Shiraz from Langhorne Creek (Australia).

 

Well it was a beast of a wine and although it should have opened up in the 10 years since production, it hadn't and really didn't give me much at all other than the sensation of drinking a very alcoholic (16%) very extracted wine, and even though I only drank just over half a bottle of it, I did have a headache the next morning.

 

Ahhhh the "good" old days of Australian Shiraz when it was made for the likes of Robert Parker and Harvey Steiman and their merry band of Wine Advocate / Wine Spectator misfits... 

 

I honestly don't know how anyone can like / enjoy a wine a red wine as heavy as 16% and it seemed up until recently Michael was stuck on making his reds at a minimum 14.5%. I think he's producing a couple of Grenache based wines that are coming in at a "low" 13.5% and probably some cooler climate stuff that would just state bloody awful at 16% are coming in around 13-14% but I think overall, he's still subscribing to the "bigger is better" mantra. 

 

 

[xylophone]

1 hour ago, GrantSmith said:

Ahhhh the "good" old days of Australian Shiraz when it was made for the likes of Robert Parker and Harvey Steiman and their merry band of Wine Advocate / Wine Spectator misfits... 

 

I honestly don't know how anyone can like / enjoy a wine a red wine as heavy as 16% and it seemed up until recently Michael was stuck on making his reds at a minimum 14.5%. I think he's producing a couple of Grenache based wines that are coming in at a "low" 13.5% and probably some cooler climate stuff that would just state bloody awful at 16% are coming in around 13-14% but I think overall, he's still subscribing to the "bigger is better" mantra. 

 

 

Have to agree with you on that Grant and I cannot see for the life of me how they can be enjoyed, although an old Kiwi mate of mine would be in his element with this stuff.

 

I do like the fruit driven Aussie wine style and when they get it right, it's just fabulous. Shiraz was always a favourite of mine, however in recent years I have turned away from that to the Cabernet Sauvignons because when well made can be easily approachable with lovely dark fruit aromas and yet fairly complex with layers of development as the wine opens up.

 

Still, some of the best wines I've ever tasted would have to be a 10-year-old Bordeaux Cru Classe wine, a burgundy from Madame Le Roy, a Cote Rotie from Chapoutier and believe it or not a Bulgarian wine which was made in honour of the "Royal family" (?) and stood at the back of the Deli here in Patong for many years without moving. Not surprised as it was priced at around 3500 baht, yet I got it for a song in his clear out and it was up there amongst the best ever!

[xylophone]

On 8/14/2017 at 7:06 PM, madmitch said:

@xylophone. Tesco Lotus are selling Hardy's Bin 53 Shiraz, Chardonnay and a couple of other varieties at 399 baht. I think it's Hardy's bottom of the range brand but do you have any knowledge of this wine? Nothing on their own website. It sounds cheap enough to be a viable alternative to the fruit wines (which I don't buy). Their own Vineyards brand is perfectly drinkable at 379 baht. I was about to buy a bottle today until I realised it was one minute past two! Grrrr!

I did buy a bottle of the Hardy's Bin 53 MM and the Vineyards (World of Wine) Cabernet Sauvignon wines to try (by the way at the main Tesco store these are 349 baht per bottle).

 

The Vineyards Cabernet Sauvignon did have a nice typical Cabernet Sauvignon nose and flavour to it, though not in great quantities but enough to make it reasonably enjoyable, however the second one I tried didn't have those characteristics and was very plain, so a good swigger I would venture to suggest.

 

The same with the Hardys Bin 53 although I found this one a little "sweet" for my liking, but it did have a nice fruit aroma on the nose, but then what can one expect for the low end drinking wines – – nice wines for pizzas, Thai dishes and curries and certainly one up from Montclair in my opinion.

 

I will get round to trying the Tempranillo I mentioned in a previous post.

[topt]

On ‎15‎/‎08‎/‎2017 at 10:03 AM, GrantSmith said:

Ahhhh the "good" old days of Australian Shiraz when it was made for the likes of Robert Parker and Harvey Steiman and their merry band of Wine Advocate / Wine Spectator misfits... 

 

I honestly don't know how anyone can like / enjoy a wine a red wine as heavy as 16% and it seemed up until recently Michael was stuck on making his reds at a minimum 14.5%. I think he's producing a couple of Grenache based wines that are coming in at a "low" 13.5% and probably some cooler climate stuff that would just state bloody awful at 16% are coming in around 13-14% but I think overall, he's still subscribing to the "bigger is better" mantra. 

 

 

 

On ‎15‎/‎08‎/‎2017 at 11:54 AM, xylophone said:

Have to agree with you on that Grant and I cannot see for the life of me how they can be enjoyed, although an old Kiwi mate of mine would be in his element with this stuff.

 

I do like the fruit driven Aussie wine style and when they get it right, it's just fabulous. Shiraz was always a favourite of mine

Those are the kind of wines that I really miss - the big heavy Shiraz styles that I used to buy back in the UK nearly 10 years ago - maybe not the 16%. That and really good Gran Riserva Riojas. No chance of buying here at a (to me) acceptable price

 

zylophone I also envy you some of the "finds" and deals you come across there.  I have never been able to find the same opportunities here in Pattaya.

[keithpa]

2 Ltr Yaldara chateau caskey , Cant be beat.

[xylophone]

Some new info on Montclair wine.............

 

Have just noticed a new Montclair wine and it is just labelled Shiraz, however it has the orange tax sticker on it, so I was intrigued and investigated the bottle.

 

It was not labelled "fruit wine", but was labelled "red wine" on the back label and this wine was made from grapes sourced from Langhorne Creek in South Australia, according to the blurb (a good area for wine).

 

So it would appear that the grapes or grape juice was imported by Siam Winery and produced here in Thailand, hence the orange tax sticker, and without any fruit/juice added to it, hence the price of 625 baht per 750 ml bottle!

 

I don't know how it will compare to imports of wine produced in other countries, however this is a little on the high side for something produced here, when an average/fair everyday drinker like "Barwang-- The Wall" comes in at around 499 baht and Taras at around 550 baht.

 

Not sure of the market it is trying to target, however will be interested to see if anyone has tasted it. 

[keithpa]

2 minutes ago, xylophone said:

Some new info on Montclair wine.............

 

Have just noticed a new Montclair wine and it is just labelled Shiraz, however it has the orange tax sticker on it, so I was intrigued and investigated the bottle.

 

It was not labelled "fruit wine", but was labelled "red wine" on the back label and this wine was made from grapes sourced from Langhorne Creek in South Australia, according to the blurb (a good area for wine).

 

So it would appear that the grapes or grape juice was imported by Siam Winery and produced here in Thailand, hence the orange tax sticker, and without any fruit/juice added to it, hence the price of 625 baht per 750 ml bottle!

 

I don't know how it will compare to imports of wine produced in other countries, however this is a little on the high side for something produced here, when an average/fair everyday drinker like "Barwang-- The Wall" comes in at around 499 baht and Taras at around 550 baht.

 

Not sure of the market it is trying to target, however will be interested to see if anyone has tasted it. 

The  most import thing about any drink is the alcohol content, forget the taste or origin.

[madmitch]

Nice to see this thread back where it belongs, despite Keithpa's post (not sure if it's a joke, a troll post or serious).

 

I spotted this new Montclair variety in Villa the other day. It did seem a bit overpriced when I can get a perfectly acceptable McWilliams Shiraz for 500 baht. 

 

I was looking for a reasonably priced Tempranillo but failed to find anything suitable. Any suggestions?

[xylophone]

4 minutes ago, madmitch said:

Nice to see this thread back where it belongs, despite Keithpa's post (not sure if it's a joke, a troll post or serious).

 

I spotted this new Montclair variety in Villa the other day. It did seem a bit overpriced when I can get a perfectly acceptable McWilliams Shiraz for 500 baht. 

 

I was looking for a reasonably priced Tempranillo but failed to find anything suitable. Any suggestions?

I think I spotted a reasonably priced Tempranillo in Big C, also one in Prompan (spelling?) MM.

 

I will keep my eyes open for one AND you can reciprocate if you would, as I am looking for  Monbazillac (sweet white) or similar Sauternes (usually VERY expensive though).......any info appreciated.

[topt]

6 minutes ago, xylophone said:

I think I spotted a reasonably priced Tempranillo in Big C, also one in Prompan (spelling?) MM.

 

I will keep my eyes open for one AND you can reciprocate if you would, as I am looking for  Monbazillac (sweet white) or similar Sauternes (usually VERY expensive though).......any info appreciated.

Big C certainly used to have a range of 3 Spanish wines from the same producer including a basic Tempranillo but they had disappeared (in my local) last time I looked. I will have to go look again.