Montclair Wine

[Bcgardener]

Thanks any way. My tastes change between reds and whites but my wife likes white ( Aussie Thai lived 12 years in Sydney) . During the week I pretty much stay with white but give me a good Wallabies or Manly game and the red comes out. I will just have to work my way through the Chilean range at Friendship Mart in Pattaya. By the way had some nice Grant Burge wines from there, red and white but about 450 a bottle.

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[Bcgardener]

Thanks any way. My tastes change between reds and whites but my wife likes white ( Aussie Thai lived 12 years in Sydney) . During the week I pretty much stay with white but give me a good Wallabies or Manly game and the red comes out. I will just have to work my way through the Chilean range at Friendship Mart in Pattaya. By the way had some nice Grant Burge wines from there, red and white but about 450 a bottle.

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[eezergood]

Grant Burge's wines are also great value IMHO

[xylophone]

Grant Burge's wines are also great value IMHO

I did try one when they were fairly new arrivals here, but wasn't that impressed, so perhaps I should have another try. Also they were priced at around 540 baht however seem to have come down in price.

Picked up another discounted Aussie special at Big C for 299 baht and it was a Nugan Estate "Third Generation Shiraz" 2010 and it was good in my book...........purple in colour, with a slight peppery and blackberry nose and tannins evident but not harsh. Went back to buy a few more but alas only 2 left so snaffled them up!

[Bcgardener]

I find the Shiraz a little heavy for everyday drinking due to the climate here. Prefer a merlot or cab sauvignon. Although I still have a couple 2009 Redman in reserve. Also a couple of Lakes Folly 1999. Just need someone to share them with! Aussie wine prices should drop here over the next couple of years as the import duty reduces to zero in 2015. I had a discussion about this with the Australian Ambassador at a recent function. He said that Thailand was the fastest growing export market in Asia for Aussie wines.

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[xylophone]

Bcg, thanks again for that information as regards the reduction in import duty in 2015, something I shall look forward to– – great info and keep it coming.

On a separate note, a friend of mine bought a bottle of Aussie 2006 Angove Vineyard Select Shiraz, McLaren Vale, at around 1800 baht because he wanted something really special to taste, with myself and a couple of other friends. Everything seemed to be right with the bottle as the capsule was intact and the cork very firm, and even when the cork was extracted it was in very good condition with no evidence of being tainted by the trichloroanisole fault.

The wine had thrown a heavy sediment and unfortunately some of the sediment had become dislodged and mixed with the wine, however as a rule this does not unduly affect the taste of the wine (unless you absolutely spoon it down and taste it, because it can be bitter) just its appearance.

So there we were looking forward to a wine experience AND the result was very poor indeed, with just about no nose to speak of, very little in the way of recognisable fruit (flavours/aromas) and a strange taste on the mid to back palate. I tried to analyse this and ruled out the wine being "corked", as well as the fact it could have been tainted by bacteria from a loose cork, and I have to say I really couldn't put my finger on it, and I came to the conclusion that the wine had a "fault" in its making or perhaps its storage. However wasn't too keen on the storage answer because had the wine been cooked or baked, then something would have shown up on the cork.

I opted for the "fault" answer because I really couldn't think of anything else and I have to say that this was probably only the second wine like this that I have come across in my entire wine imbibing experience.

I decided to get some more information on the wine and noted that the scores for this wine when it was tasted two years after bottling, range from the relatively low at 81 to 90 (out of 100) which is very strange and I can only imagine that the low scorer found something odd in the wine? Further research showed that this particular wine relied upon wild yeasts for its fermentation and it is now well known that these can create a problem with taste in a wine.

Anyway, the original purchaser of the wine couldn't drink any of it, although we managed to let the sediment settle, I managed a few sips only, whereas another friend managed to drink a bit more.

A sad experience for spending 1800 baht on a bottle of wine!!

[Bcgardener]

This is a problem I am dreading with my vintage wine collection that I brought with me from Australia. I don't think that older wines travel well through the tropics in a shipping container. I had a friend visiting earlier in the year and we opened a bottle of the 99 lakes Folly. It was nice but not as good as I expected. I can't very well open all of them to check so I will just have to take it as it comes.

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[xylophone]

This is a problem I am dreading with my vintage wine collection that I brought with me from Australia. I don't think that older wines travel well through the tropics in a shipping container. I had a friend visiting earlier in the year and we opened a bottle of the 99 lakes Folly. It was nice but not as good as I expected. I can't very well open all of them to check so I will just have to take it as it comes.

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Sorry to hear that your wine was "not as good as I expected", however a wine of some 14 years of age is usually past its peak and on a slow downward slope i.e., it is not going to get any better (I am talking about red wines here). I say this for the better wines, because many of the lesser wines will not last anywhere near this long. Even some of the better/best Bordeaux wines are at their best drinking some 10 years after release.

Just to confuse the issue, despite all of the experts, including the winemakers, giving estimations of how long a wine will last, or when it is best being drunk, many of them do not get it 100% right. An example could very well be with your Lakes Folly 99 because at a re-tasting in 2003 the winemaker said, "will drink magnificently in another 3 to 5 years", whereas a wine reviewer says, "will drink for another 10 years".

True there is some overlap here, however it is very hard to predict what a wine will do. Another thing which puzzles me is even the winemaker describes this wine as being brick red in colour when fairly young, whereas that colour is usually used to describe a wine which has aged and has a brick red colour around the edges. Purple, inky, damson colour etc are words often used to describe the colour of a new and potentially long-lasting cabernet wine??

To try and put some perspective on it, I have tasted many red wines from OZ where the winemaker has put something along the lines of, "will cellar for another seven years" on the label only to find out that it is way past its best at that particular stage, that's why many winemakers will not put an estimate of cellaring time on their labels.

Indeed, even the best winemakers and esteemed wine experts/tasters get it wrong quite frequently. Examples would be where a new Bordeaux vintage was released and fetched good prices because everyone thought the wine was going to be "amongst the best" of the decade (for example) and best drinking at such and such a year, only to find that at a re-tasting some five years later, the wine was re-rated to be "average" and the best drinking years brought forward. Of course this also works the other way and people could have bought what was considered an average vintage for a good price, only to find it re-rated upwards!!

It is a very fickle business indeed and everyone from the winemaker to the experts can get it wrong.

I don't know how long your wine was at sea for, and in what sort of container it was being shipped, however temperature variations will age wine, as will consistently high temperatures over a period of time. Perhaps it's time to sample a few various bottles of your collection and start noting what they are like, because there could be one thing in your favour, and that is that something called "bottle variation" can mean that one wine tastes "old", whereas the next bottle tastes "younger/different" and they are from the same vintage, possibly from the same case.

Overall, IMO, a wine of that age will be a few years past its absolute best, although I have to say I like some wines that have developed past their peak, as they exhibit some other characteristics which appeal to me.

[eezergood]

This is a problem I am dreading with my vintage wine collection that I brought with me from Australia. I don't think that older wines travel well through the tropics in a shipping container. I had a friend visiting earlier in the year and we opened a bottle of the 99 lakes Folly. It was nice but not as good as I expected. I can't very well open all of them to check so I will just have to take it as it comes.

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If you need help I am willing to give up my time in order to help you taste! NO thanks needed

[grumpyoldman]

This is a problem I am dreading with my vintage wine collection that I brought with me from Australia. I don't think that older wines travel well through the tropics in a shipping container. I had a friend visiting earlier in the year and we opened a bottle of the 99 lakes Folly. It was nice but not as good as I expected. I can't very well open all of them to check so I will just have to take it as it comes.

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Sorry to hear that your wine was "not as good as I expected", however a wine of some 14 years of age is usually past its peak and on a slow downward slope i.e., it is not going to get any better (I am talking about red wines here). I say this for the better wines, because many of the lesser wines will not last anywhere near this long. Even some of the better/best Bordeaux wines are at their best drinking some 10 years after release.

Just to confuse the issue, despite all of the experts, including the winemakers, giving estimations of how long a wine will last, or when it is best being drunk, many of them do not get it 100% right. An example could very well be with your Lakes Folly 99 because at a re-tasting in 2003 the winemaker said, "will drink magnificently in another 3 to 5 years", whereas a wine reviewer says, "will drink for another 10 years".

True there is some overlap here, however it is very hard to predict what a wine will do. Another thing which puzzles me is even the winemaker describes this wine as being brick red in colour when fairly young, whereas that colour is usually used to describe a wine which has aged and has a brick red colour around the edges. Purple, inky, damson colour etc are words often used to describe the colour of a new and potentially long-lasting cabernet wine??

To try and put some perspective on it, I have tasted many red wines from OZ where the winemaker has put something along the lines of, "will cellar for another seven years" on the label only to find out that it is way past its best at that particular stage, that's why many winemakers will not put an estimate of cellaring time on their labels.

Indeed, even the best winemakers and esteemed wine experts/tasters get it wrong quite frequently. Examples would be where a new Bordeaux vintage was released and fetched good prices because everyone thought the wine was going to be "amongst the best" of the decade (for example) and best drinking at such and such a year, only to find that at a re-tasting some five years later, the wine was re-rated to be "average" and the best drinking years brought forward. Of course this also works the other way and people could have bought what was considered an average vintage for a good price, only to find it re-rated upwards!!

It is a very fickle business indeed and everyone from the winemaker to the experts can get it wrong.

I don't know how long your wine was at sea for, and in what sort of container it was being shipped, however temperature variations will age wine, as will consistently high temperatures over a period of time. Perhaps it's time to sample a few various bottles of your collection and start noting what they are like, because there could be one thing in your favour, and that is that something called "bottle variation" can mean that one wine tastes "old", whereas the next bottle tastes "younger/different" and they are from the same vintage, possibly from the same case.

Overall, IMO, a wine of that age will be a few years past its absolute best, although I have to say I like some wines that have developed past their peak, as they exhibit some other characteristics which appeal to me.

JC, someone has a lot of time on their hands !

[xylophone]

Quote grumpyoldman: "JC, someone has a lot of time on their hands!"

Not really, only takes a few minutes using voice recognition software and most of the knowledge is in the head anyway. And of course there are people who like to read this sort of information, so I oblige, and of course it helps to exercise my grey matter.

Thanks for taking the time to post!!

[grumpyoldman]

Quote grumpyoldman: "JC, someone has a lot of time on their hands!"

Not really, only takes a few minutes using voice recognition software and most of the knowledge is in the head anyway. And of course there are people who like to read this sort of information, so I oblige, and of course it helps to exercise my grey matter.

Thanks for taking the time to post!!

Seems more of an ego trip, maybe you can get them to pin the topic and you can moderate?

[andreandre]

Quote grumpyoldman: "JC, someone has a lot of time on their hands!"

Not really, only takes a few minutes using voice recognition software and most of the knowledge is in the head anyway. And of course there are people who like to read this sort of information, so I oblige, and of course it helps to exercise my grey matter.

Thanks for taking the time to post!!

Seems more of an ego trip, maybe you can get them to pin the topic and you can moderate?

Ego trip??

Get down off your high horse mate...the guy has an interest and obviously knowledge of the subject....you can stick to you ''wine-cask'' specials if thats your choice.

Of course another choice is for you to just not read the posts..

[xylophone]

Quote grumpyoldman: "JC, someone has a lot of time on their hands!"

Not really, only takes a few minutes using voice recognition software and most of the knowledge is in the head anyway. And of course there are people who like to read this sort of information, so I oblige, and of course it helps to exercise my grey matter.

Thanks for taking the time to post!!

Seems more of an ego trip, maybe you can get them to pin the topic and you can moderate?

I never really considered that sharing knowledge and also learning more (yes I have learnt more about my hobby from some of the posts on here so that's great) about a hobby would be considered an "ego trip", however you are entitled to your opinion and I am not sure why this irks you so much, especially as there has been a lot of positive feedback from other posters.

[grumpyoldman]

Quote grumpyoldman: "JC, someone has a lot of time on their hands!"

Not really, only takes a few minutes using voice recognition software and most of the knowledge is in the head anyway. And of course there are people who like to read this sort of information, so I oblige, and of course it helps to exercise my grey matter.

Thanks for taking the time to post!!

Seems more of an ego trip, maybe you can get them to pin the topic and you can moderate?

I never really considered that sharing knowledge and also learning more (yes I have learnt more about my hobby from some of the posts on here so that's great) about a hobby would be considered an "ego trip", however you are entitled to your opinion and I am not sure why this irks you so much, especially as there has been a lot of positive feedback from other posters.

You guys have me wrong, doesn't irk me, just think that Robert Parker's site would be more informative if people were after such info. Or maybe Wine Spectator.

Anyway, carry on.

[andreandre]

Quote grumpyoldman: "JC, someone has a lot of time on their hands!"

Not really, only takes a few minutes using voice recognition software and most of the knowledge is in the head anyway. And of course there are people who like to read this sort of information, so I oblige, and of course it helps to exercise my grey matter.

Thanks for taking the time to post!!

Seems more of an ego trip, maybe you can get them to pin the topic and you can moderate?

I never really considered that sharing knowledge and also learning more (yes I have learnt more about my hobby from some of the posts on here so that's great) about a hobby would be considered an "ego trip", however you are entitled to your opinion and I am not sure why this irks you so much, especially as there has been a lot of positive feedback from other posters.

You guys have me wrong, doesn't irk me, just think that Robert Parker's site would be more informative if people were after such info. Or maybe Wine Spectator.

Anyway, carry on.

Thats fine and fair..if you had said that originally.., but what you said was..."Seems more of an ego trip, maybe you can get them to pin the topic and you can moderate?"

[grumpyoldman]

Phuket Forum, not solely a wine forum and yes, still stick with my words, thanks for reposting them. We're way off topic so I'll quit now.

[xylophone]

Quote Andreandre: "Thats fine and fair..if you had said that originally.., but what you said was..."Seems more of an ego trip, maybe you can get them to pin the topic and you can moderate?"

Thank you for your support on what many people have considered to be an informative and interesting thread. This guy came onto the thread a few pages ago with some sarcastic comments and was, in so many words, politely told to "butt out".

Anyway, not sure that Robert Parker would be interested in the wines which have have been discussed on here, nor does he enter into conversations about them!!

[GiantFan]

While it is true that the import duty on wine has been coming down ever since the TAFTA (Thai Aus Free Trade Agreement) in 2005, it is the excise tax, health tax, municipal tax, and obviously VAT that will keep the prices high.

[Banzai99]

Interesting thread.

So, as an update, what's the best box wine available in Thailand ?

[Archie Pelago]

Interesting thread.

So, as an update, what's the best box wine available in Thailand ?

Mar Y Sol....For me, this beats all others in taste and price for the Sauvignon Blanc. Red is good too.

[Bcgardener]

Interesting thread.

So, as an update, what's the best box wine available in Thailand ?

The best box wine is yet to be discovered ... at least by me. Although some of the Chilean boxes are quite good. I have been told that the "Cedar Creek" boxes are actually packaged in Thailand using wine imported in bulk from Australia. I know this is the case with The Berri Estates bottled wines. Does anyone know what wines are imported in bulk and then bottled or boxed here?

[xylophone]

I've tasted all but one of the box wines mentioned on here and for me the "Bodegas Centenarius" Cab/Merlot form Chile stands out as my favourite..........haven't tried any box white wines though.

Stay away from "Monte Chilena" which features a Chilean mountain landscape and talks about it BUT the wine inside is a very poor Spanish Shiraz, boxed in Spain for a Danish importer then shipped on to Thailand. The wine was disgusting and had certainly been "cooked" somewhere along its journey.

Bcg, I am sure I have read on the Cedar Creek box that it is sourced and boxed in NSW.

[Bcgardener]

The Cedar Creek wine is produced by Warburton Estate near Griffith NSW but I thought the sales guy from there said they exported it in bulk. Could be wrong thought... and not for the first time.

Watching the rugby are you

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[laislica]

Quote grumpyoldman: "JC, someone has a lot of time on their hands!"

Not really, only takes a few minutes using voice recognition software and most of the knowledge is in the head anyway. And of course there are people who like to read this sort of information, so I oblige, and of course it helps to exercise my grey matter.

Thanks for taking the time to post!!

Seems more of an ego trip, maybe you can get them to pin the topic and you can moderate?

Enough has been said about the ego trip part of your post ..... but to the pure, all things are pure.

However, I like the rest of your post, it´s just what this topic needs and it has been discussed (requested in a post - could a moderator make the topic permanent, or something like that).

The question is how to "Pin" it?

Can you help arrange the "Pin"?

What has to be done and who should do it?

Should a new topic be started with a more generic name?

Wine Lovers Opinions - How to enjoy wine in Thailand - Wine in Thailand - Best Buys.

Just thinking and I´m sure other followers of this thread can think of a better name, go for it!

Let´s get it "Pinned".

And yes, I think that Xylophone should moderate it.

Thanks.

[Bcgardener]

Got my vote. As someone who pretty much only drinks wine, never spirits and rarely a beer. I think a wine forum exchanging info is a great idea. But I don't know how to make it a permanent forum?

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[Bcgardener]

Can't add any more at present my concentration is on the rugby

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[xylophone]

Can't add any more at present my concentration is on the rugby

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The Cedar Creek wine is produced by Warburton Estate near Griffith NSW but I thought the sales guy from there said they exported it in bulk. Could be wrong thought... and not for the first time.

Watching the rugby are you

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Yep, just watched it and the Lions had a deserved win. Was hoping that the Wallabies would pull something out of the hat, but not to be.

[Bcgardener]

I've resorted to the red on the sideboard. Extremely depressed over the result

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[jocko]

 

Quote grumpyoldman: "JC, someone has a lot of time on their hands!"

 

Not really, only takes a few minutes using voice recognition software and most of the knowledge is in the head anyway. And of course there are people who like to read this sort of information, so I oblige, and of course it helps to exercise my grey matter.

 

Thanks for taking the time to post!!

Seems more of an ego trip, maybe you can get them to pin the topic and you can moderate?

 

Enough has been said about the ego trip part of your post ..... but to the pure, all things are pure.

 

However, I like the rest of your post, it´s just what this topic needs and it has been discussed (requested in a post - could a moderator make the topic permanent, or something like that).

The question is how to "Pin" it?

 

Can you help arrange the "Pin"?

What has to be done and who should do it?

Should a new topic be started with a more generic name?

Wine Lovers Opinions - How to enjoy wine in Thailand - Wine in Thailand - Best Buys.

Just thinking and I´m sure other followers of this thread can think of a better name, go for it!

Let´s get it "Pinned".

And yes, I think that Xylophone should moderate it.

 

Thanks.

Grapevine.