Phuket German Expat Loses Bt600K To Skimmers

webfact · May 17, 2013

Phuket German expat loses B600k to skimmers
Claire Connell

German expat Dirk Schmidt had B600,000 skimmed from his Kasikornbank account.

PHUKET: -- German expat Dirk Schmidt had B600,000 skimmed from his Kasikornbank account in early January, and more than four months later is still waiting for developments in the case.

The money was taken from his account on January 5, 6 and 7 this year – B200,000 each day, his account’s daily withdrawal limit. Bank records show the money was taken in around 30 different transactions, at three different ATMs on Koh Samui, while Mr Schmidt was in Phuket.

The semi-retired German national has long been a regular visitor to Phuket, and last year decided to live in Phuket for eight months of the year.

When he went to an ATM in Patong on January 7, there was only B125 left in his account – the thieves had drained his account to the dregs.

“I was speechless, I just about had a heart attack,” Mr Schmidt said. “I thought there was something wrong, that there must have been a mistake.”

He spoke to police in Kamala and Patong, and contacted staff at Kasikornbank, who gave him a print-out of the details of the transactions – made every few minutes over three days.

Police were helpful, he said, and provided still camera footage from outside the Koh Samui ATMs in question, but a mix-up meant footage from the wrong dates was sent. Mr Schmidt is still waiting for the correct camera footage.

A representative from Kamala police said he would send the reports to Koh Samui police, who would take control of the case because it happened in their area.

“When I first went there [to Kasikornbank] they told me I took the money.

“I want to know what to do now. At the end of the month I’m going to Bangkok to visit the [Kasikornbank] head office and say ‘What’s going on?’. [Kasikornbank] haven’t done anything for four months, even though I got the police report to them two or three days later.

“It’s their fault, they gave me a card that’s not safe.”

Mr Schmidt didn’t usually have a large amount of money stored in his account, he said, but he recently transferred money to it from his German account because he planned to buy a car in Bangkok.

In hindsight, Mr Schmidt recalls a suspicious incident at an ATM in Patong he believes is connected to the fraud.

On December 17, he put his ATM card into a machine in Patong, and it didn’t recognise his pin. A person came up behind him and offered to help, but Mr Schmidt told him to go away. When he tried a second time, the pin code was accepted, and he was able to withdrawal his money.

“I’m angry; it’s a lot of money,” he said.

Repeated attempts by The Phuket News to reach the assistant vice president of the Patong branch of Kasikornbank, Greepon Limpattarajaroen, as well as staff in the Bangkok office were unsuccessful.

The Kasikornbank website says about skimming, in part, “For any losses suffered, practices adhered to by all commercial banks will be applied for losses resulting from skimmers installed at any ATM. [if] the losses are deemed as not resulting from the mistake or negligence of cardholders, card-issuing banks will be responsible for the losses.”

Precisely what “responsible” means is not clear. The bank’s call centre told The Phuket News that skimming cases, and compensation, are handled on a “case by case” basis.

Source: http://www.thephuketnews.com/phuket-german-expat-loses-b600k-to-skimmers-39445.php

-- Phuket News 2013-05-17

clockman · May 17, 2013

Third world example!

LivinginKata · May 17, 2013

The Kasikornbank website says about skimming, in part, “For any losses suffered, practices adhered to by all commercial banks will be applied for losses resulting from skimmers installed at any ATM. [if] the losses are deemed as not resulting from the mistake or negligence of cardholders, card-issuing banks will be responsible for the losses.”

Best of luck with this bank policy. I had 50,000 baht skimmed about 18 months ago from Kasikorn bank and I had really no explanation or interest from them in my loss. Too bad was their reaction. I cancelled my ATM card and only use my book for transactions. Sure it's a pain, but better than the worry about fraud.

iSabai · May 17, 2013

A friend once told me that if the ATM doesn't accept your PIN, take the card out and DON'T try again. Could be some good advice there.

I put the bulk of my money into an account with no ATM access. And keep a small amount in another account to use with an ATM card. I make small transfers from one to the other when needed.

Still makes me nervous though...

bapak · May 17, 2013

I recently had funds skimmed from my Commonwealth Bank ATM account in a bank in Hua Hin. The following day the bank contacted me and asked if I had any transactions in the Philippines, I responded no. They immediately cancelled the card, 2 days later the skimmed funds were back into my account. A new card arrived from Oz via FedEx and the following day the PIN arrived also by FedEx. Definately a different experience from the above OP.

JetsetBkk · May 17, 2013

I suggest he reads this story and sees if his situation is similar:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/528145-phuket-atm-scams-even-professionals-get-caught-out/

PS. For 10 baht a month, I get an SMS message when any money is removed or added to my account.

For another 10 baht, I get an SMS message when ever my Internet banking account is logged in.

DaveBKK · May 17, 2013

Here's a #protip for you all. Always set-up 2 bank accounts. 1 account, with the majority of your funds with an ATM card you never take outside. The other with only funds you need for a particular day connected to the ATM card you carry on you. If you ever need more funds, just simply transfer via your bank Smartphone app (or online banking) from the main account to the "outside" secondary account, and then use the secondary account ATM to withdraw immediately.

A) If your "outside" ATM card gets skimmed, you'll never lose much.

If you ever get held up or robbed outside, they'll never get much from forcing you to withdraw off that card you have on you.

ghworker2010 · May 17, 2013

Why would anyone have a 200k card limit per day- thats $6,600 a day.

My anz card was skimmed in KL last yr and I lost $2500. Since this experience, I always log onto to my bank account online 1 day after using any ATM to check.

true blue · May 17, 2013

JetsetBkk, on 17 May 2013 - 13:31, said:

I suggest he reads this story and sees if his situation is similar:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/528145-phuket-atm-scams-even-professionals-get-caught-out/

PS. For 10 baht a month, I get an SMS message when any money is removed or added to my account.

For another 10 baht, I get an SMS message when ever my Internet banking account is logged in.

that service is free with bkk bank and has been operating for years,excellent system never failed me once.

adamokeefe · May 17, 2013

I suggest he reads this story and sees if his situation is similar:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/528145-phuket-atm-scams-even-professionals-get-caught-out/

PS. For 10 baht a month, I get an SMS message when any money is removed or added to my account.

For another 10 baht, I get an SMS message when ever my Internet banking account is logged in.

It does sound useful, but I'm genuinely wondering how much good it would do? I guess you can immediately cancel the card from further withdrawals to avoid the whole account being emptied - but what about that first withdrawal?

Is there anything SCB would do about that?

I found SCB totally useless when I had my card stolen and used fraudulently to take 20k out of my account - thankfully that's all that was in there - 2 years ago. Had a police report to prove my wallet was stolen before the transactions were made but SCB refused to cancel my card when I went into the branch the moment it opened as I couldn't give them my account number (I was on Samui and didn't take my Bangkok branch bank book on holiday) and they "couldn't find me" on the system!!

The thief even made 2 transactions at stores on Koh Samui and Koh Phangnan within 5 minutes of each other - SCB couldn't tell me how the thief managed that either. Never got any money back. UK credit cards were also stolen and used in the same way, money was instantly refunded after a phone call. The fraud department were supposed to 'work together' with Samui police....obviously that was futile.

So, just wondering if notifying them as soon as you get the SMS would help? Honest question, no hint of sarcasm (I know what people are like on here!)

Paangjang · May 17, 2013

JetsetBkk, on 17 May 2013 - 13:31, said:

I suggest he reads this story and sees if his situation is similar:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/528145-phuket-atm-scams-even-professionals-get-caught-out/

PS. For 10 baht a month, I get an SMS message when any money is removed or added to my account.

For another 10 baht, I get an SMS message when ever my Internet banking account is logged in.

that service is free with bkk bank and has been operating for years,excellent system never failed me once.

I get the same service with Krungsri. Piece of mind...

ezzra · May 17, 2013

I suggest he reads this story and sees if his situation is similar:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/528145-phuket-atm-scams-even-professionals-get-caught-out/

PS. For 10 baht a month, I get an SMS message when any money is removed or added to my account.

For another 10 baht, I get an SMS message when ever my Internet banking account is logged in.

+1 and what more, never had an ATM card, never needed one, best way to keep

the crooks away from my money.

Gerald14 · May 17, 2013

Looks like these problems happen mostly in Phuket / Pattaya, I live upcountry in a small town and I feel relatively safe here from skimming

brfsa2 · May 17, 2013

Kasikorn bank response to this is unacceptable!

Banking in Thailand is a JOKE.

He should sue the bank, but he wont be able since he has only 125K baht left.

edit: I can already see it coming the "good luck suing in thailand" replies. LOL

Edited May 17, 2013 by brfsa2

wirat69 · May 17, 2013

Aha, but...........is not KasikornBank's slogan "Service Excellence"??????? Quote:-

Service is our heart, so you can 'Leave everything in our hands'.

KASIKORNBANKGROUP Towards Service Excellence.

Siriluck Akkarasuntraporn

K-Contact Center

KASIKORNBANK PCL.

I spent considerable time putting together a substantial complaint to the Office of Consumer Complaints Board that KasikornBank breached the Act for their false advertising. I can see you all ROFL at the response..... KBank attempted to justify their documented service standards, including their non answering of telephones so aptly described in the article. I copied Bank of Thailand, and they were kind enough to twice/three times enquire of progress.

As for the Office of Consumer Complaints Board........... yes, you are quite correct..... zilch, zero, nothing

This poor gentleman's and Phuket News' experiences with KBank strike me as normal for KasikornBank, and far from "Service Excellence", striving or not.... or did I miss something in translation???

Experience Amazing Thailand.

JetsetBkk · May 17, 2013

I suggest he reads this story and sees if his situation is similar:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/528145-phuket-atm-scams-even-professionals-get-caught-out/

PS. For 10 baht a month, I get an SMS message when any money is removed or added to my account.

For another 10 baht, I get an SMS message when ever my Internet banking account is logged in.

It does sound useful, but I'm genuinely wondering how much good it would do? I guess you can immediately cancel the card from further withdrawals to avoid the whole account being emptied - but what about that first withdrawal?

Is there anything SCB would do about that?

I found SCB totally useless when I had my card stolen and used fraudulently to take 20k out of my account - thankfully that's all that was in there - 2 years ago. Had a police report to prove my wallet was stolen before the transactions were made but SCB refused to cancel my card when I went into the branch the moment it opened as I couldn't give them my account number (I was on Samui and didn't take my Bangkok branch bank book on holiday) and they "couldn't find me" on the system!!

The thief even made 2 transactions at stores on Koh Samui and Koh Phangnan within 5 minutes of each other - SCB couldn't tell me how the thief managed that either. Never got any money back. UK credit cards were also stolen and used in the same way, money was instantly refunded after a phone call. The fraud department were supposed to 'work together' with Samui police....obviously that was futile.

So, just wondering if notifying them as soon as you get the SMS would help? Honest question, no hint of sarcasm (I know what people are like on here!)

My ATM card is purely an ATM card. It is not a credit or a debit card for the exact reasons you illustrate.

jacko45k · May 17, 2013

JetsetBkk, on 17 May 2013 - 13:31, said:

I suggest he reads this story and sees if his situation is similar:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/528145-phuket-atm-scams-even-professionals-get-caught-out/

PS. For 10 baht a month, I get an SMS message when any money is removed or added to my account.

For another 10 baht, I get an SMS message when ever my Internet banking account is logged in.

that service is free with bkk bank and has been operating for years,excellent system never failed me once.

It is? I use BB and only get an SMS when money goes into my account, but not withdrawn.

JetsetBkk · May 17, 2013

JetsetBkk, on 17 May 2013 - 13:31, said:

I suggest he reads this story and sees if his situation is similar:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/528145-phuket-atm-scams-even-professionals-get-caught-out/

PS. For 10 baht a month, I get an SMS message when any money is removed or added to my account.

For another 10 baht, I get an SMS message when ever my Internet banking account is logged in.

that service is free with bkk bank and has been operating for years,excellent system never failed me once.

Dämn Krung Thai bank charging me for what is free elsewhere!

navara · May 17, 2013

The bank is responceble for your money, they should keep it safe. But there is soemthing to say, this is not Germany, you have to be careful where you use your card. When people skim your card, they also need your pincode. OR somebody know your pincode and have it skimmed later. They bad thing or Thailand is, that you can pay large amounts of money at the ATM. There must be video recordings of it. Usually those people get caught, because living of 5000 a month for years and suddenly a new truck or expensive holiday?

However I feel sorry for you, good luck.

AloisAmrein · May 17, 2013

Another proof that bank cards are not save in Thailand. NEVER use a bank or credit card in Thailand, bring along Traveller's Cheques instead, more save and easy to change. Higher rate than cash and only 33 Baht handling fee per cheque.

JetsetBkk · May 17, 2013

<snip>

I spent considerable time putting together a substantial complaint to the Office of Consumer Complaints Board that KasikornBank breached the Act for their false advertising. I can see you all ROFL at the response..... KBank attempted to justify their documented service standards, including their non answering of telephones so aptly described in the article. I copied Bank of Thailand, and they were kind enough to twice/three times enquire of progress.

As for the Office of Consumer Complaints Board........... yes, you are quite correct..... zilch, zero, nothing

This poor gentleman's and Phuket News' experiences with KBank strike me as normal for KasikornBank, and far from "Service Excellence", striving or not.... or did I miss something in translation???

Experience Amazing Thailand.

Did you go to the right place? It is the Office of the Consumer Protection Board (OCPB) in Bangkok that dealt with the problem here: http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/528145-phuket-atm-scams-even-professionals-get-caught-out

And, in that particular case, they had a picture of the guy withdrawing the money who was not the account holder.

It also helps if you go to the OCPB in person, which is what happened in the case above.

galoubet · May 17, 2013

JetsetBkk, on 17 May 2013 - 13:31, said:

I suggest he reads this story and sees if his situation is similar:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/528145-phuket-atm-scams-even-professionals-get-caught-out/

PS. For 10 baht a month, I get an SMS message when any money is removed or added to my account.

For another 10 baht, I get an SMS message when ever my Internet banking account is logged in.

that service is free with bkk bank and has been operating for years,excellent system never failed me once.

Dämn Krung Thai bank charging me for what is free elsewhere!

SCB have just started alerting me by email when my account is accessed. It seems to be a free service. The email comes in before I've even logged out of my account. At first I thought it was a bit of a nuisance but it's really quite a good idea. Especially as the online security isn't up to much with just username and password needed to access the account.

Do any Thai banks use card readers like we do in the UK to access online banking? They should. And the daily withdrawal limits are very low in the UK. My bank in the UK only permits 300 UKP a day (around 13500 baht).

Adryan · May 17, 2013

All talk about the bad Service from the Kras Bank.

Why everybody use it?

I use the Bangkok Bank an the Service is very great. They care and support me really good.

I never have trouble or problems at the Bank. All Accounts available and lot of ATM Machines to.

Money by wire trans is no problem to from Europe.

So realy I don't understand why all use this Bank?

Go4er · May 17, 2013

This is the reason I only keep a small amount in my Thai Bank Account. I use it to make my truck payment once a month. I don't trust the banking system here.

Jimi007 · May 17, 2013

Here's a #protip for you all. Always set-up 2 bank accounts. 1 account, with the majority of your funds with an ATM card you never take outside. The other with only funds you need for a particular day connected to the ATM card you carry on you. If you ever need more funds, just simply transfer via your bank Smartphone app (or online banking) from the main account to the "outside" secondary account, and then use the secondary account ATM to withdraw immediately.

A) If your "outside" ATM card gets skimmed, you'll never lose much.

If you ever get held up or robbed outside, they'll never get much from forcing you to withdraw off that card you have on you.

Exactly! I've done the same method for years here, I've never had a problem with this method using Bangkok Bank. It does seem like Kasikorn Bank has the biggest problem with skimming of all the Thai banks.

surfinglife · May 17, 2013

I suggest he reads this story and sees if his situation is similar:http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/528145-phuket-atm-scams-even-professionals-get-caught-out/PS. For 10 baht a month, I get an SMS message when any money is removed or added to my account.For another 10 baht, I get an SMS message when ever my Internet banking account is logged in.

Worth considering....but that SMS arrives AFTER the low life has already skimmed your money....

yankee99 · May 17, 2013

A friend once told me that if the ATM doesn't accept your PIN, take the card out and DON'T try again. Could be some good advice there.

I put the bulk of my money into an account with no ATM access. And keep a small amount in another account to use with an ATM card. I make small transfers from one to the other when needed.

Still makes me nervous though...

+1

Suradit69 · May 17, 2013

JetsetBkk, on 17 May 2013 - 13:31, said:

I suggest he reads this story and sees if his situation is similar:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/528145-phuket-atm-scams-even-professionals-get-caught-out/

PS. For 10 baht a month, I get an SMS message when any money is removed or added to my account.

For another 10 baht, I get an SMS message when ever my Internet banking account is logged in.

that service is free with bkk bank and has been operating for years,excellent system never failed me once.

I agree. Also get notifications when money deposited in the New York brank is available here.

I almost always use ATMs that are attached to a bank facility rather than free standing ATMs. I suppose the crooks can still fiddle with ATMs at the bank, but it seems more likely they'd screw around with one that's in an out of the way place and serviced less frequently.

Arkady · May 17, 2013

A mix up in the dates of the camera footage. Oh what a surprise.

adamokeefe · May 17, 2013

I suggest he reads this story and sees if his situation is similar:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/528145-phuket-atm-scams-even-professionals-get-caught-out/

PS. For 10 baht a month, I get an SMS message when any money is removed or added to my account.

For another 10 baht, I get an SMS message when ever my Internet banking account is logged in.

It does sound useful, but I'm genuinely wondering how much good it would do? I guess you can immediately cancel the card from further withdrawals to avoid the whole account being emptied - but what about that first withdrawal?

Is there anything SCB would do about that?

I found SCB totally useless when I had my card stolen and used fraudulently to take 20k out of my account - thankfully that's all that was in there - 2 years ago. Had a police report to prove my wallet was stolen before the transactions were made but SCB refused to cancel my card when I went into the branch the moment it opened as I couldn't give them my account number (I was on Samui and didn't take my Bangkok branch bank book on holiday) and they "couldn't find me" on the system!!

The thief even made 2 transactions at stores on Koh Samui and Koh Phangnan within 5 minutes of each other - SCB couldn't tell me how the thief managed that either. Never got any money back. UK credit cards were also stolen and used in the same way, money was instantly refunded after a phone call. The fraud department were supposed to 'work together' with Samui police....obviously that was futile.

So, just wondering if notifying them as soon as you get the SMS would help? Honest question, no hint of sarcasm (I know what people are like on here!)

My ATM card is purely an ATM card. It is not a credit or a debit card for the exact reasons you illustrate.

I have too, since that moment - a lesson learnt the hard way. But I'm still wondering what good the alert would do about that initial fraudulent transaction? Anything?

Or is it to stop more from happening?

Once the money's gone there seems to be little hope of getting it back in Thailand

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