Pay Maintenance To Consumer Court Account?

[bigginhill]

Hi to all,

I need your help!
Condominium 25 units, built in 2005, first 3 yrs fees
included in the price of the condo. Few owners live in the building, the most
are rented out or empty.

Can you tell me the obligations of a condominium manager towards official offices, ie land department tax offices, etc.

Is he required to deposit yearly balance sheets somewhere? If so how do I check if they have
been deposited?

Should there be tax returns (committee chairman told me the building has no income other than our maintenance so we do not need to do returns).

I know that when the maintenance fees are increased they should be registered at the land office (in my case this was not done, I checked. The increase was when the condominium Act required 75%, now if I’m not wrong 50% is required). The increase was not registered as they did not have sufficient signatures however they have been taking in the increased amount.

Also the accounts are not in order, and they are not audited, they did not give the balance sheets (which were only received after a farang rebellion) the amounts of sums due in are not
listed, nor the names of the people who haven’t paid. I have now become one of these people! I have
written to the Juristic person, complaining of the state of the building lack of maintenance and poor accounts and given them copies of cashiers cheques that I am withholding.

I want to pay the money into an impartial account as I am not happy with the situation,

Can I take the problem to consumer protection court? And pay the cheques in to a court account?

Does anyone know what this will cost me?

And how does the money come out of the court account? ‘Do I need a lawyer each time?

Is there another option (apart from paying the money to the juristic person for them to
spend it on ridiculous things – yes I do go to the EGMs, but to no avail, few
people turn up, and don’t contradict a “forceful” chairman. The chairman and the committee all want to resign however there are no co-owners that actually reside in the condo that will take on the situation.

Even if the committee goes, and we managed to get rid of the manager, I would like to know exactly what he maybe guilty of, after finding out about the land office and lack of registration.

Appreciate all your help and advice, thanks

[ripley]

Wow. Interesting letter.

Regarding payment into a special account your maintenance fee until your condo is in compliance with the Law: You need a lawyer who specializes in Condo Law, to advise you about this and about which matters would concern the Consumer Protection Dept. It sounds like a good idea and I hope you'll share whatever information you get on this. It would be very useful to all of us.

Your Condo must have a Juristic Person Manager to monitor and sign off on tax matters and any other official documents to keep the condo at all times in compliance with the Law. To address the lack of volunteers, you should know that this person can be a lawyer or can be provided by a management company should you decide to hire one. The JPM is the person who has the information regarding taxation, insurance, auditing, etc. If your condo doesn't have a JPM, it is breaking the Law. The JPM is NOT the same as your building manager who takes care of the day to day chores and s/he does NOT share Juristic protection from personal prosecution.

The answers to most of your other questions are best answered by first perusing the Thai Condo Act of 2008 and the best translation of this that I know of is the one offered online by "samui for sale". After you've become familiar with this, you'll have a good basis for knowing your rights and what questions to ask either here or of a lawyer. One little jewel therein is the fact that Condo Law requires your building to conduct regular audits and post balance sheets monthly for the owners.

One thing you might look into: You say that there are very few people actually living in the building and that General Meetings are poorly attended. Did you know that for most of your issues a SECOND call meeting (EGM) does not require either a quorum or percentage of total owner votes? Also that a Committee can consist of as few as 3 people?

Anyone will tell you that to sort out the problems in your building is gonna be a major and unpleasant task. You need to figure out for yourself whether it's worth it to you to start another "revolution".

I hope you'll let us know how you get on.

Edited May 27, 2013 by ripley

[harrry]

You do realize to be a juristic person (condo manager) you need a work permit. Not needed if only a committee member.

[Delight]

One plan for your problems could be:

Work out before you start how the condo would be managed after the current management have been dismissed.

This you must have in place .You will need an effective professional JPM

The co-owners can then organise a co –owners meeting . The voting allocation of the co –owners that attend must be min. 20% of total building vote

The output from this meeting needs to be:

1) Nominate an official representative

2) A request to the current JPM to organise a EGM (extra General

meeting)

At this EGM you can replace the current JPM(25% vote required) with your new JPM ,and you can vote to charge the co –owners with a ‘Special Assessment ‘

. This has the same effect of increasing the CAM fees. Typically with a time limit of 3 years.. Only a majority vote is required for this.

Also co –owners who are refusing to pay, as a protest ,can pay the special representative. Then they can vote.

The whole process has to be professionally managed . All the official documents have to be in the Thai Language.

The foregoing is not easy –but ,speaking from personal experience, it can be done

[bigginhill]

Hi Ripley,

Yes sure I’ll keep you updated on what goes on.
I’ll explain a little more of the situation, after the first three yrs that were paid for
in the price of the condo, all ran smoothly enough the building was new.

However, not knowing the obligations of the management, and the fact that I was absent for

best part of the year, the fact that I never received notice of the agm’s/egm’s,
nor the end of year, nor saw the monthly balance sheets on the notice board,
did not worry me, things were ticking over, the office had staff, and a “handyman/technician/tuktuk
driver” the pool was clean, the gym was ok, the roof top nice, tables sunbeds. I was satisfied

I was informed by the staff that the rate had gone up from 35 baht to 45, ok, I paid. I trusted
that things were being dealt with. Then the gym equipment broke and multiply promises to repair it were never kept, the sun loungers disintegrated one after the other and were never replaced, and the last straw for me was the removal of all the plants on roof by the pool. (I was told that the weight had caused leaking into the apartment below). (how they would have resolved the problem should it have happened on the other side of the roof where the water tanks are I don't know, but I would have appreciated the same treatment for this side of the building) This was the point that I no longer talked to the
office staff but went looking for the committee members.

Other foreigners I found out all had their own different problems, one could no longer enter the building without the help of a security guard as we need a new key card system, another had paid maintenance cash to the office staff and never been given a receipt, another was aware that the 35/45 baht increase was illegal. And when we got together and read up a little on the condo act, we realized that there were also no monthly statements posted,we had had no communications of meeting minutes etc. So we called an EGM to which not one of the committee attended, only the manager. We made our requests. We now have the letters to attend, monthly sheets, and end of year.

Do they need to be deposited at any office (tax/land) (still no auditing, and the increase is still in an illegal situation).

And our list of gripes has now become (with some completely useless expensive extras added) the list presented to us at the last EGM, which will need extra financing. Serious work needs to be
done on the building, there is a huge crack on the outside. In the last Egm this list was shown to us and we discussed it, but I fear that when eventually we will get the minutes it will say we have approved all the work listed.

None of the co-owners were told that the staff member whowas no longer in the office had taken money, we just received letters saying “you owe …. So much…. If you have paid please let us know and show us receipts”.

The accountant and manager obviously hadn’t been doing their jobs. And whoshould have supervised them obviously hadn’t.

At the moment we are stuck for the new committee members, but I suppose that will be resolved, a new manager hopefully will be found, or management company. But I want to pay the cheques to a “body” as as I am being branded as a trouble maker that doesn’t even pay. And I can’t forsee the situation getting any better in the forseeable future , the next Egm is in 3months just to discuss the quotes for the work needing doing.

Harry,
Thanks but I don’t want to be a condo manager, so I won’tneed to work permit. I’d just like my (thai) manager to do the things he shoulddo. Which brings me back to apart from CAM increased being reported to the landoffice which he hasn’t done, having the accounts audited which he hasn’t done,
what else is there that I don’t know about? Do end of year balances have to be
deposited somewhere? Tax returns?

Delight,

Agreed the change of management is a must and that is the
only way to do it.

The special assessment… would that be the total of the cost

of the extraordinary work that has to be done, divided amongst the co-owners to
pay for the work? If so I think that this was what was agreed at the last
meeting, but the list of work to be done got proposed as a whole and is
discutable. Which in the next meeting will no doubt be bought up.

The “special representative” ? who would he be? How can I

trust him?

Has anyone any experience of the consumer protection court?

Thanks for you help, all appreciated!

[Delight]

The “special representative” ? who would he be? How can I

trust him?

Probably you!

[jbaldwin]

There is no requirement to submit accounts to the land office. The requirement is only to keep a copy that would be available should the land office carry out an inspection. There is a requirement to submit minutes of general meeting to the land office

Condos are not subject to income tax and are therefore not required to submit tax returns.

There is no requirement that accounts include a list of owners who have not paid fees. Although any well run condo should be that. At our last AGM we reported to co-owners that no fees were overdue.

For cash payments - if there is no receipt no payment was made - this is the normal approach in Thailand and I would expect any manager to follow this.

Remember if you are 6 months overdue in paying condo fees you cannot vote at a general meeting - in my view this was one of he most positive changes in the last condo act. If you are not contributing financially then why should you have a say in how other people's money is spent? Paying someone other than the condo does not clear your obligation. Not paying fees penalises other co-owner not the management.

I think the solution is the find a number of owners willing to take an active role - maybe that is difficult with only 25 units. Then keep on asking question and pointing out problems until the manager decides the job is too much trouble if people require it to be done properly.

[bigginhill]

Hi jbaldwin,

thanks, that was helpful. So there are no tax returns and no accounts submitted to any official office, only held by the management for inspection.

With regard to not comunicating the amounts unpaid, and the names of the co-owners I find strange as as you say if you haven't paid for 6 months then you cannot vote, if I don't know who has and hasn't paid then how do I know who has the right to vote?

As for the cash payments, it seems that more than one owner was promised the receipt in the post box, if the list of non payers had been given out it would have come to light at the end of year. Plus I don't understand accounts that don't include the amounts due in? I would have thought it would be essential.

I understand your point of view about the payments, but I really am at the end of my tether.

I've heard of the consumer protection court for situations like this, I was wondering if anyone else had any knowledge.

Thanks for your reply

[ripley]

I can't urge you too strongly to consult a lawyer who specializes in Condo Law regarding your plan to withhold payments & deposit them elsewhere. Such a lawyer should be able to advise you on what kinds of proofs you need of wrong-doing by your Manager, staff, etc. before you approach Consumer, Land Office, etc. I totally agree with Delight that before you collapse the present administration you need to have something waiting in the wings with which to replace it.

I wouldn't trust my payments to any "representative" no matter how "special"! Rather try to establish a separate bank account earmarked for the purposes of holding and paying out of maintenance & other fees. But again, that would be on the advice of a good lawyer.

[Delight]

I wouldn't trust my payments to any "representative" no matter how "special"! Rather try to establish a separate bank account earmarked for the purposes of holding and paying out of maintenance & other fees. But again, that would be on the advice of a good lawyer.

At the early stages a bank account ‘Name of Condo Juristic Person’ cannot be opened . Any bank account will have a person’s name on it.

The arrangements that were employed, when the condo where I live was going thru change, were:

1) Open a bank account in the name of the Elected Special Representative.

2 )At least one other person attends when the account is opened-this is to ensure that no ATM card was issued . Internet banking facility was available but no mobile was registered. Without a mobile monies cannot be transferred to 3rd party accounts. This was the situation with the bank that we chose.

3)The Bank book is then handed to the safe keeping of a neutral 3^rd party .

It was considered with these arrangements that monies could be deposited –but no money could be withdrawn. This proved to be the case.

Of course the life of this account is very short –less than a month. The total monies deposited never exceeded 100.000 Baht

The crucial benefit was that the adjudicators at the EGM judged that those who had paid using this method could now vote.

Another option could be an escrow account. At the time these were seen to be far too complicated.

If you do not like the Special Representative approach and the escrow is not available or unsuited then I suspect that in one year’s time you will still have your complaints list-just longer.

[bigginhill]

I can't urge you too strongly to consult a lawyer who specializes in Condo Law regarding your plan to withhold payments & deposit them elsewhere. Such a lawyer should be able to advise you on what kinds of proofs you need of wrong-doing by your Manager, staff, etc. before you approach Consumer, Land Office, etc. I totally agree with Delight that before you collapse the present administration you need to have something waiting in the wings with which to replace it.

I wouldn't trust my payments to any "representative" no matter how "special"! Rather try to establish a separate bank account earmarked for the purposes of holding and paying out of maintenance & other fees. But again, that would be on the advice of a good lawyer.

Hi Ripley,

thanks, agree with you bout finding the substitutes for the current manager, we are doing our best. And yes agreed do need a good (possibily not so expensive english speaking) lawyer.

No I don't trust a special representative either that's why I'd thought of the court account as a solution.

I haven't done a savings book earmarked for the maintenance money, as it just shows an amount, that I have access to at any time. The cashiers cheques you actually hand the money over, and they are made out to the condo. It's proof (in my eyes) it's not a question of money but the unsustainable situation. They have the dates of when I made them out, the bank guarantees me they don't expire.

I'd hoped maybe someone here had a good lawyer to recommend me.

thanks again

[bigginhill]

I wouldn't trust my payments to any "representative" no matter how "special"! Rather try to establish a separate bank account earmarked for the purposes of holding and paying out of maintenance & other fees. But again, that would be on the advice of a good lawyer.

At the early stages a bank account ‘Name of Condo Juristic Person’ cannot be opened . Any bank account will have a person’s name on it.

The arrangements that were employed, when the condo where I live was going thru change, were:

1) Open a bank account in the name of the Elected Special Representative.

2 )At least one other person attends when the account is opened-this is to ensure that no ATM card was issued . Internet banking facility was available but no mobile was registered. Without a mobile monies cannot be transferred to 3rd party accounts. This was the situation with the bank that we chose.

3)The Bank book is then handed to the safe keeping of a neutral 3^rd party .

It was considered with these arrangements that monies could be deposited –but no money could be withdrawn. This proved to be the case.

Of course the life of this account is very short –less than a month. The total monies deposited never exceeded 100.000 Baht

The crucial benefit was that the adjudicators at the EGM judged that those who had paid using this method could now vote.

Another option could be an escrow account. At the time these were seen to be far too complicated.

If you do not like the Special Representative approach and the escrow is not available or unsuited then I suspect that in one year’s time you will still have your complaints list-just longer.

HI Delight,

I don't see the difference between the account and the cashiers cheques though.

Do you pay monthly? we pay 6 monthly. What's the norm?

thanks

[Delight]

I wouldn't trust my payments to any "representative" no matter how "special"! Rather try to establish a separate bank account earmarked for the purposes of holding and paying out of maintenance & other fees. But again, that would be on the advice of a good lawyer.

At the early stages a bank account ‘Name of Condo Juristic Person’ cannot be opened . Any bank account will have a person’s name on it.

The arrangements that were employed, when the condo where I live was going thru change, were:

1) Open a bank account in the name of the Elected Special Representative.

2 )At least one other person attends when the account is opened-this is to ensure that no ATM card was issued . Internet banking facility was available but no mobile was registered. Without a mobile monies cannot be transferred to 3rd party accounts. This was the situation with the bank that we chose.

3)The Bank book is then handed to the safe keeping of a neutral 3^rd party .

It was considered with these arrangements that monies could be deposited –but no money could be withdrawn. This proved to be the case.

Of course the life of this account is very short –less than a month. The total monies deposited never exceeded 100.000 Baht

The crucial benefit was that the adjudicators at the EGM judged that those who had paid using this method could now vote.

Another option could be an escrow account. At the time these were seen to be far too complicated.

If you do not like the Special Representative approach and the escrow is not available or unsuited then I suspect that in one year’s time you will still have your complaints list-just longer.

HI Delight,

Do you pay monthly? we pay 6 monthly. What's the norm?

thanks

The Condo Acts states-reference payments

SECTION 40, The co-owner shall jointly contribute money to the juristic private commonly-owned housing for operating activities of the juristic private, commonly-owned housing as follows:

(1) the expenses of the juristic private, commonly-owned housing that each unit’s co-owner is required to pay in advance;

(2) the capital funds required for the initiation of any acti­vity according to the rules or resolution of the general meeting;

(3) other funds for performance in accordance with the resolu­tion of the general meeting under the conditions prescribed by the general meeting,

[ripley]

Don't know about "cheap" but has anyone here tried "Siam Legal"? They have a lot of useful info on the net, so might be worth a consultation. I'm thinking "Lawyer" for the purposes of interpreting Thai Condo Law and any other pertinent info for you. You need to know your protections and your pitfalls - also how to approach govt. offices and which ones. Engaging a lawyer to fight a case for you is a whole different can of worms and can be ruinously expensive if you're doing it on your own dime.

Incidentally, I don't know how it will work out legally but my hat is off to your Cashier's Check idea! That's thinking out of the box!

[bigginhill]

Don't know about "cheap" but has anyone here tried "Siam Legal"? They have a lot of useful info on the net, so might be worth a consultation. I'm thinking "Lawyer" for the purposes of interpreting Thai Condo Law and any other pertinent info for you. You need to know your protections and your pitfalls - also how to approach govt. offices and which ones. Engaging a lawyer to fight a case for you is a whole different can of worms and can be ruinously expensive if you're doing it on your own dime.

Incidentally, I don't know how it will work out legally but my hat is off to your Cashier's Check idea! That's thinking out of the box!

Hi Ripley,

I'll try Siam Legal, and I'll let you know. I had a really nice lawyer when I bought the place unfortunately he has moved to Malaysia, and can give me no collegues names that aren't expensive. I had hoped the thread would have had more attendees, that could have advised with some names and numbers.

Thanks for the comment about the cashiers cheques, I thought that if it does go to court it shows good will, as I no longer have the money , it's in the cheques, it was a way of proving it;s not a money issue but the management problem.

I'll let you know if I get any updates. Thanks for your help

[Arkady]

The juristic condominium should provide co-owners with an annual operational report, including details of receipts and expenditures and a balance sheet and those financial statements should be audited by the auditor appointed by the co-owners at the general meeting. Unpaid contributions from co-owners should appear in the balance sheet as "accounts receivable". Notes to the accounts should specify the nature of these receivables but specifying the names of individual debtors would not normally be insisted on by an auditor, except in the case of individual debtors owing a large overdue amount. Notes to the accounts should also include a schedule of aging debtors to show how long amounts are overdue. Failure to provide the required reports is punishable by a fine of 10,000 baht under the Condominium Act. I think it is correct that juristic person, like an ordinary person, doesn't need to file a tax return with the Revenue Department, if it has no profit. It is not a company. I can't see anything in the Condominium Act that obliges juristic condominiums to register the levels of co-owners' contributions with the Land Department. The latter is mainly concerned with registering ownership transfers, leases, mortgages and appraised values and I don't think it would be practical for them to go into this level of detail.

I am not sure whether your cashier cheques would make much difference from a Thai perspective. The juristic condominium is under an obligation to take legal action to recover unpaid contributions from co-owners. I think the court would only be interested in whether you have paid or not, if you were sued, and your presentation of the cheques that have not been handed over to the juristic condominium might only serve to confirm you are guilty of non-payment. You will have to be careful that your cashier cheques don't expire. I think they are limited to 6 months' validity like normal cheques. So you might have to try to get the money refunded to yourself and I am not sure how to do this since they are not cheques drawn on your own account or made out to you. Obviously you should not pay anything to the juristic person in cash, if they don't provide receipts on the spot.

Re legal action under the Consumer Protection Act. I am afraid I don't see much potential in this. The Act was intended to deal mainly with false advertising and labeling of consumer goods, although there is a somewhat vague section to do with contracts relating to services. The Consumer Protection Board usually takes years to resolve cases and is regarded as rather impotent. That's probably why you see cases of disgruntled consumers setting fire to their unsatisfactory new cars in front of shopping malls to get attention from manufacturers, rather than file a case with the Consumer Protection Board. The 2007 Constitution requires the establishment of an independent Consumer Protection Agency but no government since then, military, Dems or Pheua Thai has made any move to do this. They are all raw capitalists at heart and have absolutely no interest in curbing the ability of businesses to rip off Thai consumers at will.

In the UK I once organised a revolt of flat owners against a capricious owner of the building freehold who was charging high management fees but not providing cleaning and maintenance services as claimed. I read up on Landlord and Tenant Law and learned that tenants were entitled to withhold ground rent and management charges, if they were dissatisfied with the services received and sent a notice to the management company/ freeholder explaining their actions. Under English law the tenants were protected against legal action for non-payment of the management fees by virtue of serving this notice and the onus was then placed on the freeholder to prove that he was in fact providing services to a satisfactory standard. Soon after serving the notice I made a low ball offer of 1,000 pounds to purchase the freehold. Facing the prospect of receiving no income from the property for years and getting bogged down in litigation the freeholder capitulated and sold at our price. I think the difference here is that the land and common parts of Thai condominiums are jointly owned (or leased in the case of a 30 year lease) by the co-owners and Thailand has very detailed statutory law in the form of the Condominium Act which theoretically provides co-owners with the ability to manage their property in a democratic way. In the UK flat owners often have no ownership of the land or common parts and have to deal with a faceless landowner with no statutory law that lays down procedures for management. The Thai law doesn't see the need to provide co-owners with tough sanctions to deal with the juristic person because it provides them with the democratic structure to manage it themselves that is absent from jurisdictions like the UK. The problem is that the democracy often doesn't function properly in Thai condominiums, particularly if most co-owners are apathetic.

In conclusion, I agree with other posters that you will have to work within the democratic structure prescribed by the Condominium Act and try to unite other co-owners to push for change. I don't know what Siam Legal is like for property issues of this type. I know they have at least one Thai lawyer specialising in property law but probably mainly involved in simple transfers rather than disputes. I once got them to do a VAT registration and work permit for me and it was like pulling teeth. The unqualified legal clerk assigned to my case knew much less than I did and refused to listen to me, resulting in unnecessary delays. I have had better experiences on property with Sunbelt but nothing to do with condos.

[bigginhill]

The juristic condominium should provide co-owners with an annual operational report, including details of receipts and expenditures and a balance sheet and those financial statements should be audited by the auditor appointed by the co-owners at the general meeting. Unpaid contributions from co-owners should appear in the balance sheet as "accounts receivable". Notes to the accounts should specify the nature of these receivables but specifying the names of individual debtors would not normally be insisted on by an auditor, except in the case of individual debtors owing a large overdue amount. Notes to the accounts should also include a schedule of aging debtors to show how long amounts are overdue. Failure to provide the required reports is punishable by a fine of 10,000 baht under the Condominium Act. I think it is correct that juristic person, like an ordinary person, doesn't need to file a tax return with the Revenue Department, if it has no profit. It is not a company. I can't see anything in the Condominium Act that obliges juristic condominiums to register the levels of co-owners' contributions with the Land Department. The latter is mainly concerned with registering ownership transfers, leases, mortgages and appraised values and I don't think it would be practical for them to go into this level of detail.

I am not sure whether your cashier cheques would make much difference from a Thai perspective. The juristic condominium is under an obligation to take legal action to recover unpaid contributions from co-owners. I think the court would only be interested in whether you have paid or not, if you were sued, and your presentation of the cheques that have not been handed over to the juristic condominium might only serve to confirm you are guilty of non-payment. You will have to be careful that your cashier cheques don't expire. I think they are limited to 6 months' validity like normal cheques. So you might have to try to get the money refunded to yourself and I am not sure how to do this since they are not cheques drawn on your own account or made out to you. Obviously you should not pay anything to the juristic person in cash, if they don't provide receipts on the spot.

Re legal action under the Consumer Protection Act. I am afraid I don't see much potential in this. The Act was intended to deal mainly with false advertising and labeling of consumer goods, although there is a somewhat vague section to do with contracts relating to services. The Consumer Protection Board usually takes years to resolve cases and is regarded as rather impotent. That's probably why you see cases of disgruntled consumers setting fire to their unsatisfactory new cars in front of shopping malls to get attention from manufacturers, rather than file a case with the Consumer Protection Board. The 2007 Constitution requires the establishment of an independent Consumer Protection Agency but no government since then, military, Dems or Pheua Thai has made any move to do this. They are all raw capitalists at heart and have absolutely no interest in curbing the ability of businesses to rip off Thai consumers at will.

In the UK I once organised a revolt of flat owners against a capricious owner of the building freehold who was charging high management fees but not providing cleaning and maintenance services as claimed. I read up on Landlord and Tenant Law and learned that tenants were entitled to withhold ground rent and management charges, if they were dissatisfied with the services received and sent a notice to the management company/ freeholder explaining their actions. Under English law the tenants were protected against legal action for non-payment of the management fees by virtue of serving this notice and the onus was then placed on the freeholder to prove that he was in fact providing services to a satisfactory standard. Soon after serving the notice I made a low ball offer of 1,000 pounds to purchase the freehold. Facing the prospect of receiving no income from the property for years and getting bogged down in litigation the freeholder capitulated and sold at our price. I think the difference here is that the land and common parts of Thai condominiums are jointly owned (or leased in the case of a 30 year lease) by the co-owners and Thailand has very detailed statutory law in the form of the Condominium Act which theoretically provides co-owners with the ability to manage their property in a democratic way. In the UK flat owners often have no ownership of the land or common parts and have to deal with a faceless landowner with no statutory law that lays down procedures for management. The Thai law doesn't see the need to provide co-owners with tough sanctions to deal with the juristic person because it provides them with the democratic structure to manage it themselves that is absent from jurisdictions like the UK. The problem is that the democracy often doesn't function properly in Thai condominiums, particularly if most co-owners are apathetic.

In conclusion, I agree with other posters that you will have to work within the democratic structure prescribed by the Condominium Act and try to unite other co-owners to push for change. I don't know what Siam Legal is like for property issues of this type. I know they have at least one Thai lawyer specialising in property law but probably mainly involved in simple transfers rather than disputes. I once got them to do a VAT registration and work permit for me and it was like pulling teeth. The unqualified legal clerk assigned to my case knew much less than I did and refused to listen to me, resulting in unnecessary delays. I have had better experiences on property with Sunbelt but nothing to do with condos.

Hi Arkady,

Thanks for the post.

Food for thought. The cheques don't expire, least ways the Bangkok Bank ones don't, I checked twice, as I too thought maybe a year long validity, but they confirmed they didn;t have an expiry date.

Just for information, to recash the cheques you have to take both the cheques and the receipt that is attached to it, (it comes in two parts) back to the bank and they refund.

As you say accounts audited, unpaid contributions (the first 3 yrs of balance sheets no one has had), I'm not going to get any of this I feel, I have sent registered letters asking for these things, and others because only after the letters did we get the monthly balance sheet and the end of year , the increase in maintenance still has to be approved and registered at the land office. I enclosed copies of the cheques, should this end up in court.

So the consumer protection court is not appropriate for this situtation? If I find any other solution or a good lawyer I'll post it.

The coup in England went well! Nicely done!

Thanks for your help

[smutcakes]

One plan for your problems could be:

Work out before you start how the condo would be managed after the current management have been dismissed.

This you must have in place .You will need an effective professional JPM

The co-owners can then organise a co –owners meeting . The voting allocation of the co –owners that attend must be min. 20% of total building vote

The output from this meeting needs to be:

1) Nominate an official representative

2) A request to the current JPM to organise a EGM (extra General

meeting)

At this EGM you can replace the current JPM(25% vote required) with your new JPM ,and you can vote to charge the co –owners with a ‘Special Assessment ‘

. This has the same effect of increasing the CAM fees. Typically with a time limit of 3 years.. Only a majority vote is required for this.

Also co –owners who are refusing to pay, as a protest ,can pay the special representative. Then they can vote.

The whole process has to be professionally managed . All the official documents have to be in the Thai Language.

The foregoing is not easy –but ,speaking from personal experience, it can be done

Hi Delight, i dont think some of this is correct.

" The voting allocation of the co –owners that attend must be min. 20% of total building vote"

The quorum for any first calling of a general meeting is not less than one quarter of the total votes of Co-owners.

There are 3 ways in which the OP can gather a General Meeting, namely convince the JPM to call it, lobby the Committee to call my majority vote, or submit a letter to the Committee requesting they call a meeting with the signatures of not less than 20% of the total vote. The Committee needs to call the meeting,and if they fail to do so, those Co-owners can unilaterally call a meeting adhering to the meeting requirements stipulated in the Act.

Some other points:

There is no obligation for Minutes of meetings to be submitted to the lands department, other than when there is business such as electing a new Committee or Juristic Manager, amending regulations etc.For normal meetings with regular business, minutes are not submitted.

The Juristic Manager has obligations amongst other things to post the financials of the Condominium for everyone to see, not less than 15 days from the end of the month. If they fail to do this, there are penalties which can be imposed under Chapter 8 of the Act.

If I was the OP, if people are not paying their dues for particular reasons, and you yourself are proposing to withhold or not pay, be careful to mind other regs when calling a General Meeting.If you have unpaid amounts in excess of 180 days, you lose the ability to cast vote in a General meeting although you can attend the meeting and be added to the quorum. If i was was you, as much as it annoys you, i would continue to pay your dues whilst you are taking other action. Having cheques etc ready to be paid does not constitute them actually being paid.