Siam Paragon Closed Wednesday And Thursday

[Thaible]

PAD violence is guaranteed at this point.

They have purposefully chosen a location where they can do the most damage in the least amount of time.

Thankfully they represent less than 1% of the population, so it should be easy to contain their violence and bring peace and democracy back to Thailand.

[Plus]

Where did you get your numbers from? They have far wider support and sympathy in Bangkok. People might get bored with their protests but it doesn't mean they'd want them to go home. Not everyone can afford demonstrating, they are happy PAD is doing it for them.

Violence was cited by Thaksin as a reason for snap elections - intellegence reports, third hand planning blah blah blah. It has never materialised. PAD has convinced everyone that they are as peaceful as a hundred thousand people can get. If anyone is expecting violence, it will come from government forces, and the military told Thaksin that they won't get involved.

Edited March 28, 2006 by Plus

[Dakhar]

C'mon, get realistic. The problem is with jealous rivals. A couple of weeks ago I forecast a backlash against the malcontents and here it comes. I just hope no one lights the fuse to this powder keg. I really can't understand farangs getting excited and trying to interact. It is none of our business and we would be best served to keep a low profile and NOT run our mouths. I live up country and Thaksin's support is overwhelming. What are the malcontents planning to do after the new election? They have already told the country that they were going to take their ball and stay home. They don't want to play ball so they should stay home and not bother other people. Thaksin may not be the most moral politician but he is certainly the smartest.

Oh, and I think Siam Paragon might not be very popular place to protest. On the other hand, they promised to put more pressure on Thaksin and as with any protest some people will be inconvenienced. Wait until general strikes.

The root problem lies with Thaksin, not with PAD.

So true... here in America, we have people in America illegally forming govt. policy by demonstrating. For those that are citizens, we find it a bit offensive. They are chanting phrases such as "We are America, We built America" blah blah blah. It gets old, and tiresome. Keep your heads down folks, you don't want to become a target under mob mentality. At least that is my 2 cents.

Huh? when is protest NOT protected (and thus legal) by the US Constitution?

But then again this is Thailand and not the USA

What I meant by "ILLEGAL" is the fact that the demonstators are illegal alliens demonstrating for the right to continue being in America illegally, the right to stay in America, without payint taxes, the right to stay in America and milk the system for free medical care, free education and the list can go on. In regards to claiming they built America... washing my car, is in my opinion, far from building America.

I digress, lets stay on topic.

[Guest endure]

Big deal...so the rich and their brats wont be able to consume more of the countless and meaningless items for sale...I wonder what my Esaan family would think of these horrendous monuments to greed and galloping consumerism...

I suspect that, given the money, they'd think it was wonderful.

[mbkudu]

Thailand is a democracy? How can you tell? Trying to run out a democratically elected prime minister smacks of mob rule. I am an American. Do you think I am happy with GW! He was elected so he will serve his term. Anything other than his being impeached simply will not do. These people should be trying to find someone to beat him in an election.

Gary A, thanks. I thought Thailand was over the African style mob politics; evidently not. Most of you here are a bunch of hypocrits anyway. You b$tch and whine about Thaksin and that he must go,

and now you b$tch and moan about the protesters forcing him out. What exactly do you want?

Only thing I disagree with is that GWB was elected, the first term. Not so. The second term, sure. Monkeys can be trained with lots of tricks to accept anything.

Edited March 28, 2006 by mbkudu

[goatfarmer]

[quote name=

If he was smart he would have paid tax on selling sensitive assets to Singapore.

What tax does Thai law require paying on the sale of shares? As far as I am aware, there is no tax on capital gains from the sale of shares, only a withholding tax on dividends.

[Guest endure]

Thailand is a democracy? How can you tell? Trying to run out a democratically elected prime minister smacks of mob rule. I am an American. Do you think I am happy with GW! He was elected so he will serve his term. Anything other than his being impeached simply will not do. These people should be trying to find someone to beat him in an election.

Is Thaksin actually an elected Prime Minister? Or is he, as in the UK, a Prime Minister who is appointed by the party who have been elected into power?

[Jai Dee]

Traffic jams expected to set records

By Jutarat Tongpiam - ThaiDay - 28 March 2006 20:57

The anti-Thaksin rally that is shifting today to the Siam Paragon shopping center in the Siam Square area will cause traffic chaos that may extend to Samut Prakarn province, Traffic Police Commander Maj Gen Panu Kerdlarpphol warned yesterday.

He said that the gathering of anti-Thaksin protesters at Siam Paragon will worsen the city’s notorious traffic not only on Ratchaprasong, Sukhumvit and Pathumwan roads, which are close to Rama I, where the trendy shopping mall is located, but on roads farther away, including Ratchadaphisek, Phetchaburi and Rama IV. “The traffic problem may extend to Bangkok’s outer vicinities like Pak Nam in Samut Prakarn,” he added.

However, he said that the Traffic Police have no plan to change the direction of the traffic flow around Siam Square, including Rama I Road, although the People’s Alliance for Democracy (PAD), the organizer of the protest, has announced that the relocation of the demonstration to Siam Paragon for two days is assured.

“The traffic flow in that area will be unchanged, but there is likely to be heavy congestion. The usual two-lane Rama I Road at the front of Siam Square that fans out into the five-lane Sukhumvit Road will be reduced to one lane if the protesters can restrict themselves to one lane,” he said.

He said that the traffic police have not received any proposal from PAD on how it plans to occupy Rama I for its anti-Thaksin gathering today. Therefore, the police have not given permission for PAD to carry out its activities on the street, he said.

The police have assigned additional manpower from the metropolitan traffic police unit and nearby local police stations to the protest area tomorrow, he said.

“At least 30 traffic police officers will direct the traffic around the demonstration area, including Pathumwan and Ratchaprasong intersections. We can call for more support, if necessary,” he added.

[mbkudu]

[quote name=

If he was smart he would have paid tax on selling sensitive assets to Singapore.

What tax does Thai law require paying on the sale of shares? As far as I am aware, there is no tax on capital gains from the sale of shares, only a withholding tax on dividends.

So which law has Thaksin broken? Is there a chance that most of these protesters were/are sharholders of the Shin Corp. that was sold in Sinpapore and now they are grumpy about it?

[mbkudu]

Thailand is a democracy? How can you tell? Trying to run out a democratically elected prime minister smacks of mob rule. I am an American. Do you think I am happy with GW! He was elected so he will serve his term. Anything other than his being impeached simply will not do. These people should be trying to find someone to beat him in an election.

Is Thaksin actually an elected Prime Minister? Or is he, as in the UK, a Prime Minister who is appointed by the party who have been elected into power?

This is not as bad as a conservative nominee for president being 'chosen' by a conservative high court to be president.....before all the votes have even been counted.

Edited March 28, 2006 by mbkudu

[Guest endure]

Thailand is a democracy? How can you tell? Trying to run out a democratically elected prime minister smacks of mob rule. I am an American. Do you think I am happy with GW! He was elected so he will serve his term. Anything other than his being impeached simply will not do. These people should be trying to find someone to beat him in an election.

Is Thaksin actually an elected Prime Minister? Or is he, as in the UK, a Prime Minister who is appointed by the party who have been elected into power?

This is not as bad as a conservative nominee for president being 'chosen' by a conservative high court to be president.....before all the votes have even been counted.

I wasn't implying that the UK system was either superior or inferior to the Thai system. I just want to know what the Thai system is please?

[sriracha john]

The PAD inciting violence seems inevitable at this point.

They will probably try to destroy property in Paragon

PAD violence is guaranteed at this point.

I realize you are brand new to Thaivisa... so let me help you out with some basic fundamentals .

For future reference, it's considered redundant and a time-waster, for those reading them, to post three identical posts on the same thread in three hours time.

Also, it's redundant and a time-waster to post the exact same thing in two different threads:

Anti-government Rally Thread 13-25 March

Thaible Posted on: Yesterday, 2006-03-27 08:14:02

the protestors represent less than 1% of the population.

Siam Paragon Closed Wednesday And Thursday

Thaible Posted on: Today, 2006-03-28 22:10:23

they represent less than 1% of the population

This redundancy is especially wasteful when the first post had already been addressed as to it's obvious shortcomings:

Anti-government Rally Thread 13-25 March

sriracha john Yesterday, 2006-03-27 08:48:20 Post #441

Protestors of any cause in any country at any time in history are "representative" of unknown numbers of others who share the same view but are not in attendance. To simply state that the numbers of attendees represent less than 1% of the population fails to grasp this most basic of concepts regarding protesting. By that logic, it would require 33 million Thais protesting in one location at one time to constitute a "crisis" for the majority of Thais.

Thank you for your cooperation and I look forward to reading your improved posts in the future.

Welcome to Thaivisa.

[capt_canada42]

I wonder what my Esaan family would think of these horrendous monuments to greed and galloping consumerism...

They probably aspire to shop there themselves....

True true true

[Plus]

What tax does Thai law require paying on the sale of shares?

It's a lot more complicated than that. For example, EGAT employees have already paid taxes on shares allotted to them, even before the company was privatised. Now they are getting their tax refunds.

Unless there's a truly independent review of the deal no one can say with certainty if the taxes should have been collected, and on what, exactly.

The president of the Law Society of Thailand was convinced taxes should have been paid when the shares were registered with brokers, not when they were sold on the market - because there were immediate gains in value. Some shares were recieved as gifts years ago and not taxed at that time because they were not traded and gains were not realised.

You can't say with certainty how this tax issue will turn out if there's an independent review. It will be a quest for finding slip ups - the deal was carefully designed to avoid paying taxes. Then there are off shore companies - Ample Rich and Win Mark that are suspected of being inolved in something far more sinister that Shin sale - hiding profits made during baht devaluation.

Democrats have long ago accused Thaksin of using inside knowledge to make money when the whole country collapsed. He was in the government and just two weeks prior to devaluation he pushed Thanong Bidaya, his "personal banker", as a Finance Minister.

Another charge - conflict of interest, is a lot simpler. Everyone knows Thaksin had a hand in selling Shin and that's illegal. Everyone knows his kids were just dummies signing papers, and that's illegal, too.

It was all interesting and was on front pages two months ago but Thaksin refused to answer any charges, admitting guilt by default. Now it's irrelevant, everyone knows he's corrupt to the core. Thaksin's gamble is that his supporters will vote for him anyway, corrupt or not. PAD's point is that he is unfit to stand in the elections in the first place.

[Plus]

And, SJ, I admit I have said that numerous times. It's just everyday people come up with the same idea - if the person is suspected of corruption, he can run in elections and become innocent if he wins. What kind of logic is that? How many times has it popped up in how many threads?

[britmaveric]

And, SJ, I admit I have said that numerous times. It's just everyday people come up with the same idea - if the person is suspected of corruption, he can run in elections and become innocent if he wins. What kind of logic is that? How many times has it popped up in how many threads?

And those complaining are just as corrupt?

[Plus]

And those complaining are just as corrupt?

That's another favourite. It goes like this:

- Hey, you are stealing someone's TV.

- Shut up, you just want it for yourself, you scheeming thief, you are just jelous you didn't steal it first.

[sriracha john]

And, SJ, I admit I have said that numerous times. It's just everyday people come up with the same idea - if the person is suspected of corruption, he can run in elections and become innocent if he wins. What kind of logic is that? How many times has it popped up in how many threads?

It's come up almost as many times as the misunderstood impressions and confusion as to who exactly is who regarding:

Thaksin,

TRT Party,

Democrat Party,

Opposition,

and PAD.

[meom]

PAD's point is that he is unfit to stand in the elections in the first place.

If he were to step down do you think his wealth will enable him to control politics from the background?

[talktomarty]

Big deal...so the rich and their brats wont be able to consume more of the countless and meaningless items for sale...I wonder what my Esaan family would think of these horrendous monuments to greed and galloping consumerism...Bangkok has just become ONE HUGE SHOPPING MALL...they have about as much humanity in them as a used green tea bag... dukkha

Its all well and good to blame the middle class (because they are the ones who spend at your shopping malls).

But please spare a thought for all the employment these tourist dollars creates and the daily cash injections to the Thai economy.

[britmaveric]

And those complaining are just as corrupt?

That's another favourite. It goes like this:

- Hey, you are stealing someone's TV.

- Shut up, you just want it for yourself, you scheeming thief, you are just jelous you didn't steal it first.

Still a valid point.

[thebear]

There is some great comments here, on both sides.

I think he is definitely on his way out. Not paying tax on such a large sum crosses a line of no return. Can you imagine paying your tax with that thought running through your head.

Surprised this strategy hasn't been pushed more, ie mass witholding of tax. It is a good simple message, suitable for the masses & media and has pretty immediate effects.

The question is how far will he go to hang on and how long will it take?

Thai democracy & people deserve kudo's for the restraint shown so far, hope for the country it continues.

good night.

You perhaps are not aware of a former PM General who moved all his money out of the country, devalued the Baht, and then brought it all back the next day doubling his fortune. He got away with it, is still in politics, and a member of the present government!

Taksin will go all the way, what hhe did may be wrong in many peoples eyes but in terms of his performance through this crisis he has observed democratic law, I believe he will succeed.

I don't know the exact percentages but Thailand is a triangle economy say < 1% stinking rich, maybe > 20% so called middle class, 80% ish the rest. 10m people live in Bangkok, 56m or so rest of Thailand and of them most believe they were/will continue to be better off with Taksin regardless of what we non Thai observers think.

[thebear]

And those complaining are just as corrupt?

That's another favourite. It goes like this:

- Hey, you are stealing someone's TV.

- Shut up, you just want it for yourself, you scheeming thief, you are just jelous you didn't steal it first.

TRT

Thai Rak Thai (Thai Love Thai)

Thai ROB Thai

All pretty much par for the course...

[pjallittle]

Why are they targeting shopping malls?

See the original posting on this subject which says:

One of the reasons, the protesters selected this location was because of the convience of the restaurants and bathrooms

If the Malls are closed, then what? One big stink leads to another?

[jdinasia]

So ... I would guess that people will use public toilets and that PAD may have to call and get some portable toilets trucked in! Not the worst thing that has happened.

[sriracha john]

TRT

Thai Rak Thai (Thai Love Thai)

Thai ROB Thai

Alternatively:

Twisting

Reality

Team

First, the government line:

International community remains confident about Thailand

Foreign Minister Kantathi Suphamongkhon said Tuesday that Thailand maintains the broad support and understanding of the international community despite the current political upheavals.

There was also confidence in the continued potential of Thailand as an investment and tourism destination.

He said Bangkok-based diplomats now understood the situation well, and needed no further briefings.

"In the past, many countries didn't appreciated how Thai law or the constitution operated, but they

now understand because of the briefings we've conducted," Mr. Kantathi said.

The foreign minister said some countries had earlier expressed doubts about the investment and tourism atmosphere in Thailand, but they later regained confidence after realising that the protests and demonstrations were largely peaceful, and that the situation would probably be short-lived.

He also said the wide spectrum of opinions being put forward by Thais was seen by many countries as a positive expression of an open society.

"It is a good signal sent to the international community. There's no violence and Thailand remains a safe place for tourism and investment.” Mr. Kantathi said.

- TNA

And then..... the actual reality of a foreign government’s response:

Ministerial visits to Thailand abandoned

Visits to Thailand by senior Australian government ministers have been cancelled in the face of a political crisis unlikely to be resolved by a snap election on Sunday.

The Australian Ambassador to Thailand, Bill Paterson, said the political uncertainties had led to senior ministerial visits scheduled for this year to be abandoned, although routine cooperation programs would continue.

"What we can't expect are major decisions to be taken by the Thai government during this period," he told AAP.

He also warned Australians travelling to Thailand to check travel advisories first.

"I think it's prudent to be watchful as to how things like political demonstrations can develop," he said.

The April 2 vote, called for by Thaksin as a way to end criticism and protests over his leadership style, is set for a stalemate as the major opposition parties have boycotted the election citing corruption and irregularities in the process.

Paterson said the current political climate in Thailand was unprecedented given the challenge of civil society groups to Thaksin's grip on power.

"Thailand has entered a period of political uncertainty which could last for sometime," Paterson said. "We are charting new ground in terms of testing the current constitution."

Thai broking house Phatra Securities warned that protests could intensify after the election and the army's involvement in any crackdown on protests could not be ruled out.

"The new government is unlikely to tolerate continued protests after the elections. A post-election crackdown on the protesters remains a distinct possibility. The army's involvement cannot be ruled out and therefore its views will be a critical factor," it said in a report.

Tens of thousands of protesters have held anti-government rallies in Bangkok almost daily for several weeks, accusing Thaksin of widespread corruption and abuse of power and demanding his resignation.

Months of small anti-Thaksin rallies ballooned into a mass movement after the prime minister's family in January announced it had sold its controlling stake in telecommunications company Shin Corp to Singapore's state-owned Temasek Holdings for a tax-free 73.3 billion baht ($A2.68 billion).

Critics allege the sale involved insider trading and complain that a key national asset is now in a foreign government's hands.

Thaksin is also accused of cracking down on dissent and stifling press freedom. Thaksin has denied any wrongdoing.

- AAP

[Gary A]

CORRUPT seems to be the most popular word being bandied around. Why should he pay taxes on his sale? He is within the law and has done nothing the rest of them haven't done. He just did it on a MUCH larger scale.

Thailand has a constitution and laws aimed at reducing corruption. If corruption could be proved they would already have charged him. Thaksin does have a layer of Teflon BUT he has deflected the shit legally. It has slid off him because he is guilty of nothing except being wealthy.

All politiciand have a foul odor and not only in Thailand. Many are scum bucket lawyers who suck the blood of poor people. Fortunately Thailand is not infected with lawyers the way the US is. Get Thaksin out using the law and the constitution or leave him to serve his legal term.

[sriracha john]

Additionally, as the Foreign Minister wanted to focus on foreign business and tourism aspects, the attack and murder yesterday of two Chinese, here in Thailand to conduct business, will likely do very little to encourage expansion of either industries, particularly in light of the Chinese impact on both of them.

*edit*

sorry, I was a little inaccurate. Only one of the Chinese has died, the other remains clinging to life in ICU.

Edited March 29, 2006 by sriracha john

[goatfarmer]

What tax does Thai law require paying on the sale of shares?

It's a lot more complicated than that. For example, EGAT employees have already paid taxes on shares allotted to them, even before the company was privatised. Now they are getting their tax refunds.

Unless there's a truly independent review of the deal no one can say with certainty if the taxes should have been collected, and on what, exactly.

The president of the Law Society of Thailand was convinced taxes should have been paid when the shares were registered with brokers, not when they were sold on the market - because there were immediate gains in value. Some shares were recieved as gifts years ago and not taxed at that time because they were not traded and gains were not realised.

You can't say with certainty how this tax issue will turn out if there's an independent review. It will be a quest for finding slip ups - the deal was carefully designed to avoid paying taxes. Then there are off shore companies - Ample Rich and Win Mark that are suspected of being inolved in something far more sinister that Shin sale - hiding profits made during baht devaluation.

Democrats have long ago accused Thaksin of using inside knowledge to make money when the whole country collapsed. He was in the government and just two weeks prior to devaluation he pushed Thanong Bidaya, his "personal banker", as a Finance Minister.

Another charge - conflict of interest, is a lot simpler. Everyone knows Thaksin had a hand in selling Shin and that's illegal. Everyone knows his kids were just dummies signing papers, and that's illegal, too.

It was all interesting and was on front pages two months ago but Thaksin refused to answer any charges, admitting guilt by default. Now it's irrelevant, everyone knows he's corrupt to the core. Thaksin's gamble is that his supporters will vote for him anyway, corrupt or not. PAD's point is that he is unfit to stand in the elections in the first place.

A circumlocution. Doesn't answer the question. Shouldn't be a complicted issue. If it needs an 'independent review' the greater probability is that there were no taxes to be paid.

[bwana1952]

l think they got that bit right about these rallies scaring off the tourists. Numbers are way down on last year in our area ( Koh Samet ) and also on Koh Chang. The drop off started in early Feb, wasn't that about the time all this political agitation began ? l think they two phenomena are closely related. Tourists are fickle creatures at the best of times. lt does not take much for them to change their plans and head elsewhere at the first sign of trouble, often more imagined than real.