Scams At Second-Hand Car Dealers In Thailand

[bealus]

£2000 for a DP3, just plug in and bt1000 per reset, start a business in Thailand by helping people change their vehicle's mileage.

There is no known law in Thailand that forbid a car owner from adjusting his odometer reading, Only in the UK, it becomes illegal if you knowingly sell the vehicle without disclosing the adjustment done to the mileage reading

My knowledge stops at MP3; maybe Thai law does'nt forbid it but if word gets around you do some Odometer cleaning businesslike; would

not sleep well on my pillow thinking about revengeful customers&easy access to guns in LOS

[bealus]

Not all cars in BKK drive a lot of KM. Im driving 5-700km a Month

Traffic!!!

That's a good point - think of the "running hours" versus the actual odometer reading. Probably find the engine in a car that's done 100,000klm in the provinces is in the same condition as one that's done 10,000 in BKK.

Another important factor that's impossible to determine is the time engine has spent with the rev counter on the end stop.

Stuck in many traffic jams while visiting the dealers have to admit there's a lot of wear and tear driving a car in BKK

[bealus]

In all honesty it is getting more and more difficult to fiddle the odometer on modern cars.

Gone are the days when you could connect the black and decker drill to the speedo cable and lock the trigger until you got the selected milage you wanted.

I don't doubt that today ways exist to 'fiddle' the figures but with so many 1 year old and 2 old cars on the market it's probably not worth the trouble to do it.

What you think about replacing the odo meters with ones bought frome a scrap yard.

The good old days for the second hand car dealer are gone!

Even if you got a computer millege adjustment to a newer model the dealer would still have manufacture a comprehensive checkable service history with corresponding bills.

Not impossible when there is a 100,000bht at stake.

Tbh you are better buying new on finance from a reputable dealer, if you don't want to stump up a load of cash.

CCC

Not impossible when there is a 100,000bht at stake.

Had a few times when I showed interest in a particular car, asking about the service-book: "Not at hand Sir, still at main-office"

[bealus]

About 10 years ago i went to a dealer in Pattaya that had a tidy Isuzu Trooper for sale, but when i looked, the speedo had over 300,000Kms !! I mentioned to the agent that it was a nice motor but the Km's was far too high - his answer "i can make it whatever you want"!!, said it with a straight face too as if it was the norm!

So with that experience i have never bought a second hand motor here, the difference in price in buying something new is minimal and at least you know what you are getting.

You guys driving me towards buying new on finance with these msg's

[bealus]

Well, I've been looking at older used cars. Quickly, it dawned upon me that they all are wildly overpriced! Check the private sale ads

here and on BahtSold e

They pitch seems to be the "easy financing". Don't pay double FMV (fair market value) just because you can drive off that car @ 6,999 Baht for 7 years.

True, 2nd hand cars are overpriced here and you're never 100% sure if and what they fixed odometer or engine-wise. So you pay too much while remaining a risk, at finance(boy are they keen to sell you on finance)you pay too much too. But at least you drive new out of the showroom with manufacturer's warranty

[Beetlejuice]

I would never purchase a second hand vehicle in Thailand, neither from a dealer nor a private seller.

Considering that there are no strict MOT type tests as in the UK, only a basic annual Government imposed check over just for paperwork purposes, there is no way of knowing the true condition of a SH vehicle, unless the customer has vehicle mechanical experience and knows what he/she is looking at.

Vehicles can be restored insurance write off botch jobs, cut and shut, resprayed over corroded body work, mechanical parts on their last legs, dodgy brakes, old brittle types, although they may appear visually in good condition, steering gear dangerously worn, company cars that have been badly driven and thrashed - the list goes on.

The only way to verify if a SH vehicle is the real deal in Thailand, is if you know the previous owner and history of the vehicle, otherwise you are going into the unknown and would maybe purchasing some piece of junk that someone else has had the best of. So in other words, a customer buys a SH vehicle in Thailand, at their own risk and discretion.

Edited June 8, 2013 by Beetlejuice

[ignis]

On the other hand I heard Thai's are not very keen on maintenance schedules

maybe on 10+ years old cars, all the Thais I know stick to service times, even the cars that are serviced every 5,000 km..

and you're never 100% sure if and what they fixed odometer

Cannot see the point here, have seen myself, many high km and normal km for year price about the same price......... 2 Pickup, same make, same model and both 2007 year 1x with almost 400,000 km the other with 128,000 km, price was 8,000 baht difference. seen cars the same very little difference..

restored insurance write off botch jobs

Is there such a thing here ? Friend bought a new Mazda BT50 Pro 4 door Automatic last month, last week he stopped a big truck rammed him hard up the rear.... 1st class insurance covers up to 80%, and yes they Insurance are going to repair it, in UK would be a write off and he would have received a new truck + would have had a Rent car in the mean time........

1st class Insurance here is far different than in Europe....... so you buy new and is written off next day you get 80% or somewhere around that if you bought on credit = you lost your 20% deposit and have no transport, or the Insurance fixes your transport covered by your Insurance....

As for cut and shunt, just look at any scrap yard here, many many front ends some back end for sale, so yes must be many cut and shunt here, anyone notice how some trucks appear to crab down the road in front of you..

My Pickup is replaced every 3 years with another new one..... reason is for Business and has around 400,000 km on the clock..... Private car, buy 2nd hand, as many European Luxury cars at 10 years old here, have had 1 owner only and are in perfect condition, many cheaper than a Thai build run of the mill Honda's or Toyota's of the same year..

[utalkin2me]

They could also monkey with the check engine lights etc. That is a very easy process, it just entails soldering a wire behind the dash to one of the lights that works the way you need it too, say seat belt light for example.

I think everybody should be trained in cars in school. There is no way to answer the op's question, especially if you know nothing about cars. I would think there are many ways to check the approx mileage of a car, but it would require some doing, which I am sure the op won't or can't do. Brake linings could be an indicator for example, when compared to new linings and then get some sort of mm per km usage stat.

My "advice": if you are going to buy a used car, and know nothing about cars, you are taking a chance. This probably goes anywhere in the world. Even if you do know about cars, still taking a chance. It is as simple as that. Go with your gut is probably the best advice if you are not good with cars.

[bangkokstick]

It's just business as usual here...

[bealus]

On the other hand I heard Thai's are not very keen on maintenance schedules

maybe on 10+ years old cars, all the Thais I know stick to service times, even the cars that are serviced every 5,000 km..

and you're never 100% sure if and what they fixed odometer

Cannot see the point here, have seen myself, many high km and normal km for year price about the same price......... 2 Pickup, same make, same model and both 2007 year 1x with almost 400,000 km the other with 128,000 km, price was 8,000 baht difference. seen cars the same very little difference..

restored insurance write off botch jobs

Is there such a thing here ? Friend bought a new Mazda BT50 Pro 4 door Automatic last month, last week he stopped a big truck rammed him hard up the rear.... 1st class insurance covers up to 80%, and yes they Insurance are going to repair it, in UK would be a write off and he would have received a new truck + would have had a Rent car in the mean time........

1st class Insurance here is far different than in Europe....... so you buy new and is written off next day you get 80% or somewhere around that if you bought on credit = you lost your 20% deposit and have no transport, or the Insurance fixes your transport covered by your Insurance....

As for cut and shunt, just look at any scrap yard here, many many front ends some back end for sale, so yes must be many cut and shunt here, anyone notice how some trucks appear to crab down the road in front of you..

My Pickup is replaced every 3 years with another new one..... reason is for Business and has around 400,000 km on the clock..... Private car, buy 2nd hand, as many European Luxury cars at 10 years old here, have had 1 owner only and are in perfect condition, many cheaper than a Thai build run of the mill Honda's or Toyota's of the same year..

sure like the car depicted in your avatar; indeed a luxury car my guess is a citroën xm?

[bealus]

All TV members who contributed to this topic: Thanks!

Come to the conclusion:

2nd hand cars are badly overpriced in LOS

as there are no MOT's or technical comparable; don't have that reference-point either

paperwork/green book, odometers can be fiddled with

as in almost every country cars can be welded together, or have invisible defects

contrary reports about Thai's sticking to maintenance schedule's

no-brainer: with a financed car your pay more, but it spreads evenly during a fixed period

car's history in general maybe more "clouded" in LOS than in western countries

I will search for a relatively young used car, but sold from a known owner.

As I just bought a motorcycle(from a trusted friend btw), waiting a bit to restock on personal finance

can't hurt either.

If waiting for a trusted car-seller takes too long, will opt for a new financed car

Drive carefully out-there whatever type of car you're on the road with!!!!

[stevenl]

All TV members who contributed to this topic: Thanks!

Come to the conclusion:

2nd hand cars are badly overpriced in LOS

as there are no MOT's or technical comparable; don't have that reference-point either

paperwork/green book, odometers can be fiddled with

as in almost every country cars can be welded together, or have invisible defects

contrary reports about Thai's sticking to maintenance schedule's

no-brainer: with a financed car your pay more, but it spreads evenly during a fixed period

car's history in general maybe more "clouded" in LOS than in western countries

I will search for a relatively young used car, but sold from a known owner.

As I just bought a motorcycle(from a trusted friend btw), waiting a bit to restock on personal finance

can't hurt either.

If waiting for a trusted car-seller takes too long, will opt for a new financed car

Drive carefully out-there whatever type of car you're on the road with!!!!

Strange conclusion 'second hand cars are badly overpriced here'. Expensive, sure, but overpriced, no, in that case they would not sell. The market allows the pricing.

[kartman]

All TV members who contributed to this topic: Thanks!

Come to the conclusion:

2nd hand cars are badly overpriced in LOS

as there are no MOT's or technical comparable; don't have that reference-point either

paperwork/green book, odometers can be fiddled with

as in almost every country cars can be welded together, or have invisible defects

contrary reports about Thai's sticking to maintenance schedule's

no-brainer: with a financed car your pay more, but it spreads evenly during a fixed period

car's history in general maybe more "clouded" in LOS than in western countries

I will search for a relatively young used car, but sold from a known owner.

As I just bought a motorcycle(from a trusted friend btw), waiting a bit to restock on personal finance

can't hurt either.

If waiting for a trusted car-seller takes too long, will opt for a new financed car

Drive carefully out-there whatever type of car you're on the road with!!!!

Strange conclusion 'second hand cars are badly overpriced here'. Expensive, sure, but overpriced, no, in that case they would not sell. The market allows the pricing.

Just confirms Thread started as a waste of space and finishes as a waste of space .

[Felt 35]

Very easy to fix the odometer and according to the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration it costs Americans US10 billion each year. Many people don't realize this includes digital odometer fraud.

http://www.uobd2.com/wholesale/tacho-pro-2008-july-plus-universal-dash-programmer-unlock.html

[Felt 35]

Mileage fraud - A huge problem in Europe.

http://www.fiaregion1.com/en/fia_region_1/news/mileage_fraud_-_a_huge_problem_in_europe_time_do_deal_with_it.htm

[fredob43]

Three years ago yes a long time but a friend wanted to buy a second had car spent several week's looking with him. What did we find most had done about 40k something KM seat's buggered lose steering different tyres all the tell tale sign's and not ONE had a service history. In the end he got a new one on H/P. Most Thai's don't service unless they have to.

Edited June 11, 2013 by fredob43

[BSJ]

A 5 year old Bangkok car with a genuine 60-80k on the clock probably has an engine and air conditioner with the equivalent of 250k.

[bealus]

Very easy to fix the odometer and according to the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration it costs Americans US10 billion each year. Many people don't realize this includes digital odometer fraud.

http://www.uobd2.com/wholesale/tacho-pro-2008-july-plus-universal-dash-programmer-unlock.html

Stunning figure and the cost of equipment needed to fix the mileage as shown in your thread, is frighteningly low...

[bealus]

Three years ago yes a long time but a friend wanted to buy a second had car spent several week's looking with him. What did we find most had done about 40k something KM seat's buggered lose steering different tyres all the tell tale sign's and not ONE had a service history. In the end he got a new one on H/P. Most Thai's don't service unless they have to.

as already stated, I agree. Spoke to many Thai neighbors&friends; their attitude(maybe not restricted to cars

but equipment in general)if it's still working why "fix" it

[gerryBScot]

I bought a basic Mitsubishi Triton truck at an auction in BKK; it was just over a year old with 5,500 km on the clock. It was a repo and the owner had removed the Mitsu wheels to prevent removal - so it came with new wheels; there was a chemical stain on the bonnet and on the windscreen. I never doubted the mileage because of the new wheels and also it smelled new inside, and under the bonnet it looked brand new - inside was immaculate with the works covers still on the bench at the back and on the sun guards. 4 years later it's just been in for its 100,000 km service, including change of the timing belt, and has never given me any problems whatsoever. An expat car hire guy recommended that if I wanted a basic 2 door manual truck then I would get a good deal at the auctions; I took my time, three visits to the auction, to check out how it all worked, and when I saw my truck and I set a limit and I got it. Got all the paperwork too including the radio manual and as I say it's been plain sailing ever since.

I would have no hesitation buying at an auction again.

[bealus]

I bought a basic Mitsubishi Triton truck at an auction in BKK; it was just over a year old with 5,500 km on the clock. It was a repo and the owner had removed the Mitsu wheels to prevent removal - so it came with new wheels; there was a chemical stain on the bonnet and on the windscreen. I never doubted the mileage because of the new wheels and also it smelled new inside, and under the bonnet it looked brand new - inside was immaculate with the works covers still on the bench at the back and on the sun guards. 4 years later it's just been in for its 100,000 km service, including change of the timing belt, and has never given me any problems whatsoever. An expat car hire guy recommended that if I wanted a basic 2 door manual truck then I would get a good deal at the auctions; I took my time, three visits to the auction, to check out how it all worked, and when I saw my truck and I set a limit and I got it. Got all the paperwork too including the radio manual and as I say it's been plain sailing ever since.

I would have no hesitation buying at an auction again.

I bought a basic Mitsubishi Triton truck at an auction in BKK; it was just over a year old with 5,500 km on the clock. It was a repo and the owner had removed the Mitsu wheels to prevent removal - so it came with new wheels; there was a chemical stain on the bonnet and on the windscreen. I never doubted the mileage because of the new wheels and also it smelled new inside, and under the bonnet it looked brand new - inside was immaculate with the works covers still on the bench at the back and on the sun guards. 4 years later it's just been in for its 100,000 km service, including change of the timing belt, and has never given me any problems whatsoever. An expat car hire guy recommended that if I wanted a basic 2 door manual truck then I would get a good deal at the auctions; I took my time, three visits to the auction, to check out how it all worked, and when I saw my truck and I set a limit and I got it. Got all the paperwork too including the radio manual and as I say it's been plain sailing ever since.

I would have no hesitation buying at an auction again.

Crossed my mind too, buying at an auction; saw it once on Thai television. My gf said too tricky; you prove otherwise. Can you give an estimate (in %)how much you saved buying at an auction compared to the "regular"

market? Were you confronted with fierce commercial competition from 2nd hand car dealers? Do they only sell cars or motorcycles too? Was this an auction done by a specialized company or by the government? Appreciate if you can give some more info, thx!

[gerryBScot]

I bought a basic Mitsubishi Triton truck at an auction in BKK; it was just over a year old with 5,500 km on the clock. It was a repo and the owner had removed the Mitsu wheels to prevent removal - so it came with new wheels; there was a chemical stain on the bonnet and on the windscreen. I never doubted the mileage because of the new wheels and also it smelled new inside, and under the bonnet it looked brand new - inside was immaculate with the works covers still on the bench at the back and on the sun guards. 4 years later it's just been in for its 100,000 km service, including change of the timing belt, and has never given me any problems whatsoever. An expat car hire guy recommended that if I wanted a basic 2 door manual truck then I would get a good deal at the auctions; I took my time, three visits to the auction, to check out how it all worked, and when I saw my truck and I set a limit and I got it. Got all the paperwork too including the radio manual and as I say it's been plain sailing ever since.

I would have no hesitation buying at an auction again.

I bought a basic Mitsubishi Triton truck at an auction in BKK; it was just over a year old with 5,500 km on the clock. It was a repo and the owner had removed the Mitsu wheels to prevent removal - so it came with new wheels; there was a chemical stain on the bonnet and on the windscreen. I never doubted the mileage because of the new wheels and also it smelled new inside, and under the bonnet it looked brand new - inside was immaculate with the works covers still on the bench at the back and on the sun guards. 4 years later it's just been in for its 100,000 km service, including change of the timing belt, and has never given me any problems whatsoever. An expat car hire guy recommended that if I wanted a basic 2 door manual truck then I would get a good deal at the auctions; I took my time, three visits to the auction, to check out how it all worked, and when I saw my truck and I set a limit and I got it. Got all the paperwork too including the radio manual and as I say it's been plain sailing ever since.

I would have no hesitation buying at an auction again.

Crossed my mind too, buying at an auction; saw it once on Thai television. My gf said too tricky; you prove otherwise. Can you give an estimate (in %)how much you saved buying at an auction compared to the "regular"

market? Were you confronted with fierce commercial competition from 2nd hand car dealers? Do they only sell cars or motorcycles too? Was this an auction done by a specialized company or by the government? Appreciate if you can give some more info, thx!

Bealus I can't prove anything and wouldn't want to. I'm not saying auctions are better, I'm just telling you my experience and how I got a pickup at an auction and haven't had a problem with it; that has been my experience so far. Had I been ripped off and paid out good money for a load of old rubbish I would tell you and advise you to stay clear of auctions. But that wasn't my experience - it was surprisingly positive.

The company is a mature business and they have auctions every weekend: bikes and motors. Professionally run. They publish a lot list a few days before the auction. You can download this online: it is in Thai but enough of it is in English to get a sense of what is coming up and their reserve price and your Thai relations will be able to assist you with this.

As I said I went on three consecutive Saturday; I knew what I wanted: two or four door pickup, diesel and manual gears. I set myself a limit and stuck to it. In the end I got what I wanted, 3,000 baht below my limit. To bid you have to make a deposit which is off-set against any purchase; if you don't purchase you get your deposit back. I then paid the balance by bank transfer and I picked the vehicle up on the Thursday after the auction. Driving it out of the auction site was the moment of truth: as I was expecting the thermometer gauge to explode and the engine to overheat but it handled the stop and start of the rush hour and got me home safely and has been going like a good thing ever since.

I probably paid more than a dealer but I reckon at the time I saved a good amount - between 60-80,000 THB, but you have to take into account there was a little bit of damage on the body and it lacked the original Mitsu wheels.

As it was a repo the auction company was in effect the finance company's agent but they processed all the paperwork and there were no issues when we registered the change of ownership at the land vehicle registry.

I really doubt whether I could have got a better deal in a private purchase or from a dealer - you know we have this phenomenon here of people who think foreigners are only too happy to pay a bit ( or a lot) more. I think I could have wasted a lot of time trying to buy this way.

I was impressed by the whole set up and would have little hesitation to go this route next time - sell the pick up at the auction and then buy a new one.

[bealus]

I bought a basic Mitsubishi Triton truck at an auction in BKK; it was just over a year old with 5,500 km on the clock. It was a repo and the owner had removed the Mitsu wheels to prevent removal - so it came with new wheels; there was a chemical stain on the bonnet and on the windscreen. I never doubted the mileage because of the new wheels and also it smelled new inside, and under the bonnet it looked brand new - inside was immaculate with the works covers still on the bench at the back and on the sun guards. 4 years later it's just been in for its 100,000 km service, including change of the timing belt, and has never given me any problems whatsoever. An expat car hire guy recommended that if I wanted a basic 2 door manual truck then I would get a good deal at the auctions; I took my time, three visits to the auction, to check out how it all worked, and when I saw my truck and I set a limit and I got it. Got all the paperwork too including the radio manual and as I say it's been plain sailing ever since.

I would have no hesitation buying at an auction again.

I bought a basic Mitsubishi Triton truck at an auction in BKK; it was just over a year old with 5,500 km on the clock. It was a repo and the owner had removed the Mitsu wheels to prevent removal - so it came with new wheels; there was a chemical stain on the bonnet and on the windscreen. I never doubted the mileage because of the new wheels and also it smelled new inside, and under the bonnet it looked brand new - inside was immaculate with the works covers still on the bench at the back and on the sun guards. 4 years later it's just been in for its 100,000 km service, including change of the timing belt, and has never given me any problems whatsoever. An expat car hire guy recommended that if I wanted a basic 2 door manual truck then I would get a good deal at the auctions; I took my time, three visits to the auction, to check out how it all worked, and when I saw my truck and I set a limit and I got it. Got all the paperwork too including the radio manual and as I say it's been plain sailing ever since.

I would have no hesitation buying at an auction again.

Crossed my mind too, buying at an auction; saw it once on Thai television. My gf said too tricky; you prove otherwise. Can you give an estimate (in %)how much you saved buying at an auction compared to the "regular"

market? Were you confronted with fierce commercial competition from 2nd hand car dealers? Do they only sell cars or motorcycles too? Was this an auction done by a specialized company or by the government? Appreciate if you can give some more info, thx!

Bealus I can't prove anything and wouldn't want to. I'm not saying auctions are better, I'm just telling you my experience and how I got a pickup at an auction and haven't had a problem with it; that has been my experience so far. Had I been ripped off and paid out good money for a load of old rubbish I would tell you and advise you to stay clear of auctions. But that wasn't my experience - it was surprisingly positive.

The company is a mature business and they have auctions every weekend: bikes and motors. Professionally run. They publish a lot list a few days before the auction. You can download this online: it is in Thai but enough of it is in English to get a sense of what is coming up and their reserve price and your Thai relations will be able to assist you with this.

As I said I went on three consecutive Saturday; I knew what I wanted: two or four door pickup, diesel and manual gears. I set myself a limit and stuck to it. In the end I got what I wanted, 3,000 baht below my limit. To bid you have to make a deposit which is off-set against any purchase; if you don't purchase you get your deposit back. I then paid the balance by bank transfer and I picked the vehicle up on the Thursday after the auction. Driving it out of the auction site was the moment of truth: as I was expecting the thermometer gauge to explode and the engine to overheat but it handled the stop and start of the rush hour and got me home safely and has been going like a good thing ever since.

I probably paid more than a dealer but I reckon at the time I saved a good amount - between 60-80,000 THB, but you have to take into account there was a little bit of damage on the body and it lacked the original Mitsu wheels.

As it was a repo the auction company was in effect the finance company's agent but they processed all the paperwork and there were no issues when we registered the change of ownership at the land vehicle registry.

I really doubt whether I could have got a better deal in a private purchase or from a dealer - you know we have this phenomenon here of people who think foreigners are only too happy to pay a bit ( or a lot) more. I think I could have wasted a lot of time trying to buy this way.

I was impressed by the whole set up and would have little hesitation to go this route next time - sell the pick up at the auction and then buy a new one.

@gerryBScot:

Thanks a lot and much appreciated for the effort you made to give extensive information about what's going on at a Thai organized auction. Get a good picture now and makes me curious to at least visit such an auction "live". Wish your Triton will run for at least another 100.000 km!!!

[PattayaPhom]

Only buy a car with full service history, so unless the speedo is disconected between intervals the mileage will have to match

[bealus]

Very easy to fix the odometer and according to the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration it costs Americans US10 billion each year. Many people don't realize this includes digital odometer fraud.

http://www.uobd2.com/wholesale/tacho-pro-2008-july-plus-universal-dash-programmer-unlock.html

The price is frighteningly low and it looks it can be operated even by me....thx for sharing