Scams At Second-Hand Car Dealers In Thailand

[bealus]

Have been looking for a 2nd hand car of approx. 2-4 years old and visiting some dealers in and around

BKK area.

Could'nt help notice that some cars had hard to believe low mileages on the odometer.

As in my "homeland"(bad reputation I know) quite a few second hand car dealers(maybe even individual sellers)have a let's call it questionable reputation too regarding fiddling and fixing mileage on the clock to a more

"customer-friendly" result, anybody there who had this experience in Thailand or can elaborate on it?

Any suggestions how to verify it?

[overherebc]

In all honesty it is getting more and more difficult to fiddle the odometer on modern cars.

Gone are the days when you could connect the black and decker drill to the speedo cable and lock the trigger until you got the selected milage you wanted.

I don't doubt that today ways exist to 'fiddle' the figures but with so many 1 year old and 2 old cars on the market it's probably not worth the trouble to do it.

[jbrain]

In all honesty it is getting more and more difficult to fiddle the odometer on modern cars.

Gone are the days when you could connect the black and decker drill to the speedo cable and lock the trigger until you got the selected milage you wanted.

I don't doubt that today ways exist to 'fiddle' the figures but with so many 1 year old and 2 old cars on the market it's probably not worth the trouble to do it.

What you think about replacing the odo meters with ones bought frome a scrap yard.

[manarak]

In all honesty it is getting more and more difficult to fiddle the odometer on modern cars.

Gone are the days when you could connect the black and decker drill to the speedo cable and lock the trigger until you got the selected milage you wanted.

I don't doubt that today ways exist to 'fiddle' the figures but with so many 1 year old and 2 old cars on the market it's probably not worth the trouble to do it.

What you think about replacing the odo meters with ones bought frome a scrap yard.

The car parts are now supposed to be linked to each other similarly to a graphic card and mainboard to windows, using a public/private key recognition mechanism.

But that's the lastest tech.

And anyway, all cars have a programming interface and although they are encrypted, most have been cracked.

[jvs]

I know for a fact odometers are tampered with,when you see a second hand car with very low mileage it is almost certain they have been manipulated.One way to check is ask for the service book in which the dealer writes down when the service is done and that is almost certainly up to date until the warranty runs out.Another way is to look for the sticker they put on when they change the timing belt,not all cars but that is how i find out on my truck.

A vehicle can look almost new even when it is almost ten years old so you really have to look it over well.My truck is now ten years old and i found proof under the hood that the belt was replaced but i still bought it and it has been a very reliable vehicle so far.

Why they do it?Probably to get more money out of the deal and make the car look less used.

[bealus]

Googled on internet and saw quite some Chinese manufacturers selling "mileage-correction" equipment. While I think for

an individual seller it indeed might not be worth-wile buying it; for commercial dealers it could make extra $$(excuse me Baht).

Getting an odometer from the scrap-yard comes handy and cost-effective; as what Manarak states modern cars should have

a kind of security-key, like kind of MAC-address for pc's, if I understand it correctly.

Recent cars to my informatyion are fitted with an odb2 connection, which at least makes it possible to SCAN engine-parameters

not sure about REPROGRAMMING though.

Found a link on you-tube on fiddling with a 2011 Fiesta:

[thaifkrlim]

£2000 for a DP3, just plug in and bt1000 per reset, start a business in Thailand by helping people change their vehicle's mileage.

There is no known law in Thailand that forbid a car owner from adjusting his odometer reading, Only in the UK, it becomes illegal if you knowingly sell the vehicle without disclosing the adjustment done to the mileage reading

[vento]

Not all cars in BKK drive a lot of KM. Im driving 5-700km a Month

Traffic!!!

[Chittychangchang]

In all honesty it is getting more and more difficult to fiddle the odometer on modern cars.

Gone are the days when you could connect the black and decker drill to the speedo cable and lock the trigger until you got the selected milage you wanted.

I don't doubt that today ways exist to 'fiddle' the figures but with so many 1 year old and 2 old cars on the market it's probably not worth the trouble to do it.

What you think about replacing the odo meters with ones bought frome a scrap yard.

The good old days for the second hand car dealer are gone!

Even if you got a computer millege adjustment to a newer model the dealer would still have manufacture a comprehensive checkable service history with corresponding bills.

Not impossible when there is a 100,000bht at stake.

Tbh you are better buying new on finance from a reputable dealer, if you don't want to stump up a load of cash.

CCC

[WonnabeBiker]

Well, I've been looking at older used cars. Quickly, it dawned upon me that they all are wildly overpriced! Check the private sale ads

here and on BahtSold etc.

They pitch seems to be the "easy financing". Don't pay double FMV (fair market value) just because you can drive off that car @ 6,999 Baht for 7 years.

[LennyW]

About 10 years ago i went to a dealer in Pattaya that had a tidy Isuzu Trooper for sale, but when i looked, the speedo had over 300,000Kms !! I mentioned to the agent that it was a nice motor but the Km's was far too high - his answer "i can make it whatever you want"!!, said it with a straight face too as if it was the norm!

So with that experience i have never bought a second hand motor here, the difference in price in buying something new is minimal and at least you know what you are getting.

[martynsnowmans]

not all low mileage motors have been messed with , i bought the mrs a new car a few

xmas,s ago , she had to have 1 could,nt live without , its now 2.5 years old mileage ...

.... 2009 km ..... any1 want to buy an almost new motor .

[chris2004]

Surely you would want to see a service history on a 3 year old car which would clearly show the mileage at each service. If they don't have that i would walk away.

[sotsira]

Not trusting a s/h car dealer or mileage on the odometer is pretty much normal

around the world.

S/H cars sold by main dealer franchises though should be a lot safer.

There are a few tell tale signs that can be used though to distinguish between high and low

mileage vehicles:

Firstly, as mentioned before the service history should tally with the mileage.

The steering wheel surface all around the rim should be constant to look and feel.(No patches of smooth surfaces)

Pedal rubbers should look unworn on low mileage, also check the ware of the carpet or mats where the heel pivots.

Drivers seat should look unworn on low mileage, especially near the drivers door entry area.

Drivers door panel around the armrest and opening/closing handle should have no scuffs or ware on low mileage.

On manual cars the gear knob should look new on low mileage.

Under the bonnet all the white and clear plastics should look clean and not discoloured.

Rubber hoses should look clean and not perished.

[Riley'sLife]

Odometer "clocking" is standard practice here. The other tricks played are mind blowing.

In my experience the most widespread -and most dangerous- scam involves the removal of genuine parts from vehicles being then replaced with non-standard fake copies of the originals. It is almost common practice in Thailand for a private owner to replace (sell) genuine parts from his car if it is about to be repossessed by the Finance Co. Can you imagine the tricks the second hand car dealers get up to.

I saw a Vios sold to a Thai then have its wheels and tyres replaced before collection and fitted with cracked inner wall tyres that looked serviceable but were a deathtrap.

I only ever buy new..... then spend my time watching the Franchise Dealer's "expert" (sarcasm!!!) staff use their lack of knowledge and unbelievable logic to "service" my vehicle and return it to me with something else damaged as a result of their incompetence.

[cooked]

Surely you would want to see a service history on a 3 year old car which would clearly show the mileage at each service. If they don't have that i would walk away.

What's a service history? Never seen one.

[Nowhereman60]

It could have been sitting in flood waters for a few months.

[Gsxrnz]

Not all cars in BKK drive a lot of KM. Im driving 5-700km a Month

Traffic!!!

That's a good point - think of the "running hours" versus the actual odometer reading. Probably find the engine in a car that's done 100,000klm in the provinces is in the same condition as one that's done 10,000 in BKK.

[slapout]

Surely you would want to see a service history on a 3 year old car which would clearly show the mileage at each service. If they don't have that i would walk away.

What's a service history? Never seen one.

New vehicles sold in Thailand have a warrentry and a Service book with regular sevice, repairs made, etc pages included. Normal warrenty sometimes also includes free sevice as recommended by the dealer.. I would not buy a vehicle which this was not avaliable as they are kept in the vehicle, normally.

[LennyW]

Not all cars in BKK drive a lot of KM. Im driving 5-700km a Month

Traffic!!!

That's a good point - think of the "running hours" versus the actual odometer reading. Probably find the engine in a car that's done 100,000klm in the provinces is in the same condition as one that's done 10,000 in BKK.

Like a tractor!

[cooked]

Sorry, even if the service book hadn't disappeared it will have most likely been forged.

Sent from my iPhone using ThaiVisa app

[chiang mai]

Newspaper article today, Bangkok Post I believe, talks about how used car prices have dropped up to 50% as a result of the new car/tax free scheme, don't know how true but certainly believable.

[LennyW]

Sorry, even if the service book hadn't disappeared it will have most likely been forged.

Sent from my iPhone using ThaiVisa app

Highly doubtful, most new cars/trucks come with a 3 year/100,000 km warranty, if it is not kept up to date - warranties can be voided ie: cost money for major replacements/repairs, i know all mine have been kept perfectly intact, genuine and sold with the vehicle.

@cooked, i think you must be part of the tinfoil hat brigade

[slapout]

Sorry, even if the service book hadn't disappeared it will have most likely been forged.

Sent from my iPhone using ThaiVisa app

I can walk into the dealers where I have purchases vehicles Isuzu and Toyota and ask them to pull service record up on the vehicle and its on the computer. I have done this when I noted the shop had missed some info on a couple services.. Some things are run like they should be, they all are not crooks, yet....

[Sophon]

Sorry, even if the service book hadn't disappeared it will have most likely been forged.

Sent from my iPhone using ThaiVisa app

I can walk into the dealers where I have purchases vehicles Isuzu and Toyota and ask them to pull service record up on the vehicle and its on the computer. I have done this when I noted the shop had missed some info on a couple services.. Some things are run like they should be, they all are not crooks, yet....

And not only can you get the service records for your own vehicle, they will be quite happy to give you the information on any vehicle you are thinking about buying. When we were looking for a pick-up, we called the dealers (Nissan and Isuzu) and got service information on a number of vehicles. In all cases the mileage were consistent with the service records.

Sophon

Edited June 8, 2013 by Sophon

[overherebc]

Not all cars in BKK drive a lot of KM. Im driving 5-700km a Month

Traffic!!!

That's a good point - think of the "running hours" versus the actual odometer reading. Probably find the engine in a car that's done 100,000klm in the provinces is in the same condition as one that's done 10,000 in BKK.

Another important factor that's impossible to determine is the time engine has spent with the rev counter on the end stop.

[chrisinth]

In all honesty it is getting more and more difficult to fiddle the odometer on modern cars.

Gone are the days when you could connect the black and decker drill to the speedo cable and lock the trigger until you got the selected milage you wanted.

I don't doubt that today ways exist to 'fiddle' the figures but with so many 1 year old and 2 old cars on the market it's probably not worth the trouble to do it.

What you think about replacing the odo meters with ones bought frome a scrap yard.

Tbh you are better buying new on finance from a reputable dealer, if you don't want to stump up a load of cash.

CCC

Have just done exactly that, picked the new car up this morning. When weighing up the pros & cons, second hand v new, the buying new was a no-brainer. IMO, unless you personally know the history of the s/h car you are looking at purchasing, you will stand a good chance of unwelcome 'surprises' within the first month with very little comeback. (not even the dealer will know the true history of the vehicle)

While it is true you are paying more for new, at least you have the service support, insurance, etc, and you pretty much know that the engine & gearbox are going to be good.

And of course the other main factor is how the s/h cars hold their price; I have always been baffled with this over here.

[evadgib]

Surely you would want to see a service history on a 3 year old car which would clearly show the mileage at each service. If they don't have that i would walk away.

...on a micro chipped card in the service wallet!

[bealus]

not all low mileage motors have been messed with , i bought the mrs a new car a few

xmas,s ago , she had to have 1 could,nt live without , its now 2.5 years old mileage ...

.... 2009 km ..... any1 want to buy an almost new motor .

not all low mileage motors have been messed with , i bought the mrs a new car a few

xmas,s ago , she had to have 1 could,nt live without , its now 2.5 years old mileage ...

.... 2009 km ..... any1 want to buy an almost new motor .

you sure got me tempted

[bealus]

I know for a fact odometers are tampered with,when you see a second hand car with very low mileage it is almost certain they have been manipulated.One way to check is ask for the service book in which the dealer writes down when the service is done and that is almost certainly up to date until the warranty runs out.Another way is to look for the sticker they put on when they change the timing belt,not all cars but that is how i find out on my truck.

A vehicle can look almost new even when it is almost ten years old so you really have to look it over well.My truck is now ten years old and i found proof under the hood that the belt was replaced but i still bought it and it has been a very reliable vehicle so far.

Why they do it?Probably to get more money out of the deal and make the car look less used.

Did'nt know about the timing belt thing, thx. On the other hand I heard Thai's are not very keen on maintenance schedules; and rather wait till

some parts are defect; "Why spend money on a car when it still runs perfectly"