Chanote Gets Stolen

[jbrain]

with Chanote I mean those concrete poles that the Land Department installs when they do a survey, as I don't know the correct name.

When I build my house one of those markers disappeared. My constructor said that it was taken ( stolen ) by the owner of the neighboring land..

Since I didn't want any problems in the future, I insisted that the constructor ordered a new survey from the Land Department, and so happened.

Land Department came and did a complete new survey, planted the markers in the soil and painted them yellow so they were easily detectable.

That was about 4 months ago. Yesterday I noticed that the very same marker that disappeared previously was destroyed by a heavy object. The pole is still in the ground but the head is knocked off, I recovered a few pieces of it but nohing significant. As the marker is " protected " by other poles and trees, this is nothing that can have happened by accident.

I guess it leaves no doubts as to who destroyed the marker. I don't know the owner of the land and don't even recall to have ever met him, for sure he wasn't present when they performed the latest survey or he didn't claim any objection to the land office.

So what are my options. I have no intention to pay for a new survey every 4 months.

[transam]

You have a problem neighbour for sure. I wonder what the motive is.

[jbrain]

I don't know what the motive is since the land is unused, has some casava growing on it but my perimeter wall is at least 20 cmwithin my land boundry according to the survey.

I try to find out if I can make a legal report somewhere which prevents me to have to pay for the survey over and over again.

[overherebc]

I don't know what the motive is since the land is unused, has some casava growing on it but my perimeter wall is at least 20 cmwithin my land boundry according to the survey.

I try to find out if I can make a legal report somewhere which prevents me to have to pay for the survey over and over again.

From your post the marker is outside your boundary wall so it may be a childish reaction by someone who assumes it's outside your property and on "his"

[transam]

The neighbour knows 20cm of your land is beyond your wall and ''seems'' to be in his garden. Daft but normal thought here.

[AnotherOneAmerican]

Build a wall, using the marker as part of it.

Doesn't need to be a long wall.

Or mount a small Buddha statue on top of the marker post and affix a small table with flowers and incense.

PS

Motive is claiming the land as you don't use it, and he will claim he does and has for years.

Plant a crop, rent it to a third party, grow some fruit trees. Use it or lose it, as they say.

Edited June 9, 2013 by AnotherOneAmerican

[jbrain]

If I build a wall or not, everything to the right side of the boundary line is my property, so what problem he can have. By the way as I said already he uses only a small part of the land to grow some casava, and all along the wall is weed.

[yoslim]

all along the wall is weed.

can I have some ?

[jbrain]

all along the wall is weed.

can I have some ?

Make an offer for 45m x 0.2m of weed.

[Satcommlee]

Maybe he doesn't want anyone else in the area to see that there has been a proper survey conducted, his own land-use may be questionable.

Maybe it's a face thing, maybe he has a one of the lower title deeds..

[Crossy]

An off-topic troll post has been removed along with the replies to it.

Please stay on-topic, which is wanton destruction of chanote markers.

[jbrain]

Maybe he doesn't want anyone else in the area to see that there has been a proper survey conducted, his own land-use may be questionable.

Maybe it's a face thing, maybe he has a one of the lower title deeds..

I can't imagine that it is one of those issues, because if my land has a chanote title deed then the bordering plots will have the same legal status.

When a survey is done, I understand that veryone bordering the plot receives a written request from the landoffice to come forward if they have any objections. The plot has been surveyed twice in the past 4 years.

But my question is actually not what his motive can be, but what legal options I have to prevent me having to pay for a new survey every couple of months.

Edited June 9, 2013 by jbrain

[AnotherOneAmerican]

Maybe he doesn't want anyone else in the area to see that there has been a proper survey conducted, his own land-use may be questionable.

Maybe it's a face thing, maybe he has a one of the lower title deeds..

I can't imagine that it is one of those issues, because if my land has a chanote title deed then the bordering plots will have the same legal status.

When a survey is done, I understand that veryone bordering the plot receives a written request from the landoffice to come forward if they have any objections. The plot has been surveyed twice in the past 4 years.

But my question is actually not what his motive can be, but what legal options I have to prevent me having to pay for a new survey every couple of months.

You have to pay for the upgrade to full chanote.

You might be the only one in the area to currently have a chanote.

I already told you, build a wall, why do you think so many Thais have big walls?

Edited June 9, 2013 by AnotherOneAmerican

[jbrain]

Maybe he doesn't want anyone else in the area to see that there has been a proper survey conducted, his own land-use may be questionable.

Maybe it's a face thing, maybe he has a one of the lower title deeds..

I can't imagine that it is one of those issues, because if my land has a chanote title deed then the bordering plots will have the same legal status.

When a survey is done, I understand that veryone bordering the plot receives a written request from the landoffice to come forward if they have any objections. The plot has been surveyed twice in the past 4 years.

But my question is actually not what his motive can be, but what legal options I have to prevent me having to pay for a new survey every couple of months.

You have to pay for the upgrade to full chanote.

You might be the only one in the area to currently have a chanote.

I already told you, build a wall, why do you think so many Thais have big walls?

The wall is there for years already, build 20 cm inside the boundary at every side of the plot to be sure never to have issues about this.

[PoorSucker]

My chanote markers are not posts, just a marker a ground level. (chiang mai)

[PoorSucker]

Off topic post removed.

This thread is about chanote boundary markers, not about land owner ship.

There's plenty of threads on that topic.

[jbrain]

My chanote markers are not posts, just a marker a ground level. (chiang mai)

So are mine, but they are 30 - 40 cm long and get cemented into the soil.Hence the fact that he only knocked of the top that has the seal stamped.

[PoorSucker]

My chanote markers are not posts, just a marker a ground level. (chiang mai)

So are mine, but they are 30 - 40 cm long and get cemented into the soil.Hence the fact that he only knocked of the top that has the seal stamped.

Hmm, my seals are at ground level.

[jbrain]

My chanote markers are not posts, just a marker a ground level. (chiang mai)

So are mine, but they are 30 - 40 cm long and get cemented into the soil.Hence the fact that he only knocked of the top that has the seal stamped.

Hmm, my seals are at ground level.

Normally the seals are a few cm above ground level, of course over time some dirt will actually bury them and you will have to search for them, or some rain will flood away the soil around the marker that's why they put some concrete around them. But as I said mine were just planted a 4 months ago so they were still a few cm above soil level.

[jbrain]

The neighbour knows 20cm of your land is beyond your wall and ''seems'' to be in his garden. Daft but normal thought here.

Transam, your reply made me think and I can only conclude that his motive probably is the opposite.

Since my wall is 20 cm inside my property, so he can't use it as a perimeter wall for his property and will have to build his own wall if he ever decides to build a house or whatever on the land.

This pesky farang didn't give him a free perimeter wall

[bifftastic]

I don't think you have to pay for another survey to be done. The marker is the physical record, actually on the land itself, but surely the results of the survey now exist in the land office as well?

That should be enough shouldn't it?

[jbrain]

I don't think you have to pay for another survey to be done. The marker is the physical record, actually on the land itself, but surely the results of the survey now exist in the land office as well?

That should be enough shouldn't it?

But if there is no marker anymore, then there is also no physical record anymore. Without the seal it isn't anything more than a lump of concrete.

[overherebc]

I don't think you have to pay for another survey to be done. The marker is the physical record, actually on the land itself, but surely the results of the survey now exist in the land office as well?

That should be enough shouldn't it?

But if there is no marker anymore, then there is also no physical record anymore. Without the seal it isn't anything more than a lump of concrete.

Give the guy the self satisfaction of believing he has won over the 'bad' farang and won a few square metres of precious Thai soil. Or buy some fast growing hedges and plant them in 'your' land outside your wall.

[soi41]

I actually understand your neighbour. 99.99% of all people here build their perimeterwall on the boundary, so ofcourse he would think you have done the same. And by putting the marker on "his" land, he would think you are cheating him.

As for the markers being proof of landownership, no the tittledeed is proof of landownership. And if the survey, you had done, is worth anything you will have the exact measurements: pole1 to pole 2, pole2 to pole 3 and so on. If you look closely on your chanote, you will see the pole#'s are on the scaledrawing with their numbers. Anyway most landoffices here use GPS, so markers or no markers is of no importance.

So you made a mistake by being overcautious, which might cost you 9 sqm of land, forget about it and hope it is not spoiling your life here!

[jbrain]

I actually understand your neighbour. 99.99% of all people here build their perimeterwall on the boundary, so ofcourse he would think you have done the same. And by putting the marker on "his" land, he would think you are cheating him.

As for the markers being proof of landownership, no the tittledeed is proof of landownership. And if the survey, you had done, is worth anything you will have the exact measurements: pole1 to pole 2, pole2 to pole 3 and so on. If you look closely on your chanote, you will see the pole#'s are on the scaledrawing with their numbers. Anyway most landoffices here use GPS, so markers or no markers is of no importance.

So you made a mistake by being overcautious, which might cost you 9 sqm of land, forget about it and hope it is not spoiling your life here!

I haven't done a survey, the land department has done it. Twice.

I built the perimeter wall inside the boundary with intent, because I have an infrared beams installed on the wall which hang 15 cm over the wall as to detect the outside of the wall and not the top. To prevent any issues with claims that my beams are hanging over their property the wall was built 20 cm from the edge.

Why do you think I would lose 9 sqm of land, the landoffice will confirm the boundary line at any given time.

The neighbour has been invited by the land department to be present at both survey, so if he thought I was cheating him he could have made an objection right at that moment.

Edited June 9, 2013 by jbrain

[jcb2001]

Build a wall, using the marker as part of it.

Doesn't need to be a long wall.

Or mount a small Buddha statue on top of the marker post and affix a small table with flowers and incense.

PS

Motive is claiming the land as you don't use it, and he will claim he does and has for years.

Plant a crop, rent it to a third party, grow some fruit trees. Use it or lose it, as they say.

Being that this is the 2nd time, I'd ask the village pooyai baan what he thinks you should do. He may know more about your neighbor than you do right now. But the above post pretty well explains what's happening.

[oracle]

I don't know what the motive is since the land is unused, has some casava growing on it but my perimeter wall is at least 20 cmwithin my land boundry according to the survey.

I try to find out if I can make a legal report somewhere which prevents me to have to pay for the survey over and over again.

Maybe report this to the police, section Section 67 land code act: It is forbidden to all except the competent authority to destroy, alter, move or remover any boundary marker or mapping stake placed or built in by any place by the competent authority except by permission of the land official.

[jbrain]

I don't know what the motive is since the land is unused, has some casava growing on it but my perimeter wall is at least 20 cmwithin my land boundry according to the survey.

I try to find out if I can make a legal report somewhere which prevents me to have to pay for the survey over and over again.

Maybe report this to the police, section Section 67 land code act: It is forbidden to all except the competent authority to destroy, alter, move or remover any boundary marker or mapping stake placed or built in by any place by the competent authority except by permission of the land official.

Thanks for quoting that landcode I may report it to the police, but however it is quite obvious who destroyed the boundary marker, it is probably not possible to proof it.

Is there something in the Thai law, as there is in our countries law, that allows to file a claim against unknown parties?

[Maestro]

...Is there something in the Thai law, as there is in our countries law, that allows to file a claim against unknown parties?

I don't think there is, nor do I see any reason why there should be. If your house gets burgled the police will accept your complaint even if you do not know the name of the culprit. The same goes for the destruction of property markers. When you report it to police, keep your copy of the police report with the chanote and give the land registration office a copy.

[jbrain]

...Is there something in the Thai law, as there is in our countries law, that allows to file a claim against unknown parties?

I don't think there is, nor do I see any reason why there should be. If your house gets burgled the police will accept your complaint even if you do not know the name of the culprit. The same goes for the destruction of property markers. When you report it to police, keep your copy of the police report with the chanote and give the land registration office a copy.

That was actually what I had in mind with my question. Maybe something got lost in translation.