Thailand's English Skills Lowest In S E A

[Rumpole]

Until Thai schools engage native English teachers to teach English, the standard will always be the poorest in Asia.

Until the English language is spoken widely every day across Thai society (as it is in Hong Kong, India, The Philippines, Malaysia, Singapore etc) the standard will always be the poorest in Asia! (but much better that Laos Cambodia, Burma and Vietnam - -hooray hooray! There's hope for Thailand yet!)

R

Having lived in both countries, I can unequivocally state that English is much more widely spoken in Cambodia than in Thailand, particularly in the urban centres, and the standard is generally much higher, too. Although they are very far from being bastions of academic excellence (just like in Thailand), many Cambodian universities use English as the medium of instruction, even at the undergraduate level. Cambodians have realized that few non-Cambodians speak Khmer, and English is therefore essential if they wish to communicate with foreigners and the outside world.

[rookball]

If one takes the article title literally one could accuse it of simply being a lie. Needless to say the study omits Vietnam, Myanmar, Laos, Cambodia, Brunei and Timor. Furthermore what are the Phillippines and Singapore even doing in such a survey? English is actually a national language of these two countries. In Thailand English is a foreign language. Back to Singapore- Number 1? I have spent a good deal of time in Singapore and even worked there with Singaporeans. From my experience their English language skills are generally highly overstated. (Yes I know that there are many contract workers from other countries there and I stand by my observation).

The study is proof of nothing. It was either conducted with gross incompetence or its agenda was designed to yield predetermined results.

P.S. You want good English in SEA? I just got back from KL. They blow the doors off Singapore. (And Brooklyn for that matter ).

english is one of their official languages not their national language dude great differences between them

[Noistar]

Maybe slightly off topic but....

Chiang Mai RAM hospital (big private, internationally accredited hospital) relies on a handful of translators to make up for staff being unable to communicate in English - mind you the cashiers have no problem!

Orthodontist near Central - nobody, reception or dentist(!!!!!) speaks English. They had to rely on a smartphone translation app to communicate with me!

Small dental clinic on the outer ring road. Reception and Doctors can all communicate effectively in English - even to the extent of understanding Farang humour. (Any Farang in CM wanting such a Dental clinic, just let me know!)

It can be done. Perhaps if employers were a bit more discerning and ignored the worthless paper qualifications and relied on face-to-face assessments, things might improve.

Sorry, just day-dreaming.

[Thai at Heart]

The problems with being bilingual

[techboy]

When I had a job interview with a Thai guy from a university I said to him "Good morning, how are you?"

His responce "Slowly, slowly please....."

I would take even odds that the language problem was on your end. I'll take this scenario: He understood what you said but since a bit of English that he knew quite well sounded off coming from you he felt the need to slow you down in that it might get you to enunciate more coherently going forward.

[Noistar]

If one takes the article title literally one could accuse it of simply being a lie. Needless to say the study omits Vietnam, Myanmar, Laos, Cambodia, Brunei and Timor. Furthermore what are the Phillippines and Singapore even doing in such a survey? English is actually a national language of these two countries. In Thailand English is a foreign language. Back to Singapore- Number 1? I have spent a good deal of time in Singapore and even worked there with Singaporeans. From my experience their English language skills are generally highly overstated. (Yes I know that there are many contract workers from other countries there and I stand by my observation).

The study is proof of nothing. It was either conducted with gross incompetence or its agenda was designed to yield predetermined results.

P.S. You want good English in SEA? I just got back from KL. They blow the doors off Singapore. (And Brooklyn for that matter ).

english is one of their official languages not their national language dude great differences between them

I remember a while back that Thailand refused to acknowledge English as their preferred 2nd language.

A very far-sighted decision on their part. There is Thailand and there is, well, not Thailand. So what's the point of trying to perform in the outside world.

[Donnie Brasco]

Some years ago I spent a few weeks in an Isaan village.

The neighbor's four year old boy impressed me as only slightly more than an imbecile.

My Thai friends in this village agreed. They described the boy as aw-tiss-tick a word that Upcountry Thais will use

to describe a slow kid or a slightly retarded kid.

A few years later the mother hooked up with a Cobra Gold Marine and within a few months she, her two kids and the US Marine ended up in Okinawa. The kid spent three year there in a school for army kids from all over the place. This school was run and staffed by Americans and other Westerners.

Two years ago I was back in the village and I happened to run into this kid. He didn't remember me, of course but he appeared bored out of his mind and with no one to play with wandered over into the yard to have a chat. He spoke fluent American accented English. He was just bubbling over with enthusiasm and curiosity.

The kid was intellectually ALIVE.

I rest my case against Thailand's educational system.

Learning language is not a sign of high intellect - we ALL have an innate ability to learn language.

You missed the point entirely. DB's anecdote wasn't about just language acquisition, but that that boy was capable of learning in general. It was the Thai Education System that was causing his perceived stupidity. I second this, as I see many bright kids in my classes, who are almost always drowned out by the mass of students who couldn't care less about actually learning something over the course of a day.

Yeah thanks Tomslife, that IS what I meant, of course.

I get a lot of that on these boards. Because of these squinty eyes of mine and my fat pudgy bricklayer's fingers I am forever being mistaken for someone who has never read a book.

Actually my first contact with Noam Chomsky's academic work was a critique I submitted on his treatise on language acquisition.

Didn't make me very popular with his fans back then.

Apparently, little has changed. ;-))

[Donnie Brasco]

But yeah, I was commenting on the whole truckload of humous, excrement and ego-festing and graft that is Thai education.

[wilcopops]

Ah. But to see that a country a nationalistic, with a company as successful as Samsung actively embracing English so aggressively, is in itself interesting.

For a start, ASEAN - will be using English as lingua franca.

It is also the lingua franca for business and in the case of Samsung, technology is an area that has used English for years.

although Chinese is VERY important - especially in Thailand, it is impossible for it to replace English in areas such as technology or computing as the Chinese writing system cannot be adapted sufficiently for these purposes.

Chinese is not particularly important in Thailand except when it comes to accommodating the desires and needs of an increasing number of Chinese tourists (who are actually increasingly younger, professional and travel by themselves and are thus able to use English, therefore somewhat reducing the need for Chinese). There are actually relatively few signs, menus etc. in Chinese in Thailand - nearly everything is either in Thai only or English and Thai. Even in Chinatown it's not a given that every menu, sign etc. will have Chinese on it. Quite the contrary actually.

I'm surprised anyone would make a statement like this. I even asked my Thai-Chinese friends about their views on learning Chinese. They said: "it's completely irrelevant to us because we live in Thailand. Who would we use it with?" So there you go.

As an intermediate user of Chinese myself, I can tell you it is very possible to adapt Chinese to technology, computing etc. the Chinese in China have done it very well and use a system called PinYin to type Chinese using English characters that represent the sound and then you choose from a list of characters representing this sound and meaning. In fact, while Thai is easier to adapt to technology given it's alphabet, it's amazing that demand for Thai language Windows Operating Systems is very low (except for Thai language Microsoft Office programs, which some Thais use with others opting for the English language equivalents). In China, this is very different. English language versions are available but very rarely used by locals as Chinese versions dominate. Receipts, signs etc. are often only in English in Thailand, whereas these same things are usually only in Chinese in China.

You clearly have NO idea of the extent of Chinese Thai trade or the extent of Chinese involvement in Thailand and Thai culture.

pinyin requires Roman characters - you try making a computer program in Chinese characters or even a keyboard - ttthe end result is you =need to communicate the technology with the rest of the world - Japan has a similar problem too.

Edited June 12, 2013 by wilcopops

[wilcopops]

Some years ago I spent a few weeks in an Isaan village.

The neighbor's four year old boy impressed me as only slightly more than an imbecile.

My Thai friends in this village agreed. They described the boy as aw-tiss-tick a word that Upcountry Thais will use

to describe a slow kid or a slightly retarded kid.

A few years later the mother hooked up with a Cobra Gold Marine and within a few months she, her two kids and the US Marine ended up in Okinawa. The kid spent three year there in a school for army kids from all over the place. This school was run and staffed by Americans and other Westerners.

Two years ago I was back in the village and I happened to run into this kid. He didn't remember me, of course but he appeared bored out of his mind and with no one to play with wandered over into the yard to have a chat. He spoke fluent American accented English. He was just bubbling over with enthusiasm and curiosity.

The kid was intellectually ALIVE.

I rest my case against Thailand's educational system.

Learning language is not a sign of high intellect - we ALL have an innate ability to learn language.

You missed the point entirely. DB's anecdote wasn't about just language acquisition, but that that boy was capable of learning in general. It was the Thai Education System that was causing his perceived stupidity. I second this, as I see many bright kids in my classes, who are almost always drowned out by the mass of students who couldn't care less about actually learning something over the course of a day.

Yeah thanks Tomslife, that IS what I meant, of course.

I get a lot of that on these boards. Because of these squinty eyes of mine and my fat pudgy bricklayer's fingers I am forever being mistaken for someone who has never read a book.

Actually my first contact with Noam Chomsky's academic work was a critique I submitted on his treatise on language acquisition.

Didn't make me very popular with his fans back then.

Apparently, little has changed. ;-))

You should have read some of his stuff first!

[nottocus]

One of the factors has to be the large percentage of low quality English 'teachers' in Thailand (Thai and foreign).

[Stokakrishna]

what a surprise

[recycler]

They do seem to learn a lot of English in bars ;-)

[wilcopops]

One of the factors has to be the large percentage of low quality English 'teachers' in Thailand (Thai and foreign).

...and you base this statement on what?

[watcharacters]

.

Tessa from Cheers said English is commonly spoken in Thailand.

Was he wrong?

He spent a few years in Jail in Australia for those who know him. I think he's out now.

Bud says he's doing fine.

[nottocus]

One of the factors has to be the large percentage of low quality English 'teachers' in Thailand (Thai and foreign).

...and you base this statement on what?

Regards foreigners, how many are properly qualified teachers? Bugger all I would say.

As for Thai English teachers, well....where to start?

[thaicbr]

 

One of the factors has to be the large percentage of low quality English 'teachers' in Thailand (Thai and foreign). 

...and you base this statement on what?

 

 

Regards foreigners, how many are properly qualified teachers? Bugger all I would say.

 

As for Thai English teachers, well....where to start?

How many properly qualified teachers would work for 25% of what they could earn in another country.

You need to make a distinction between a subject teacher (science etc) and an English conversation teacher.

There are actually a fair few subject teachers with adequate credentials for the subject they teach and there are also many conversation teachers that are good at their jobs.

As for Thai teachers there are also many good teachers. But the system is broken were a sub par teacher can pay to advance to director level and be in charge of the school.

Sent from my i-mobile i-STYLE Q6

[wolfmanjack]

The problem is nothing to do with white teachers. The majority of Thais are taught by Thai teachers who are afraid to speak english (even if they could), and use Thai 95% of the time. I'm still astounded that the average government school graduate can say barely more than hello, even after 12 years of learning english. There are plenty of excellent speakers of english here, educated in private / international schools / overseas, but they are in the vast minority of all citizens.

This gets to the heart of the problem with Thai teachers passing on the bad English they themselves were taught. I taught for quite a few years including university level and soon stopped being surprised at the stories the students told me of how they had learned, or not learned , in High School.

Most had never really put a sentence or two of spoken English together in class as the teacher couldn't handle it and the students knew it.

I know quite a few people who have a BA in English but from their spoken English you would never believe it.

I was recently approached by a group of Thai students (college level - 18-19 years old) with a 'survey' project where they had to find a farang and giggle a lot. And ask questions.

I scanned the teacher's question sheet. Then spent 3 or 4 minutes correcting all the teacher's mistakes. There were maybe 20 errors in 10 simple questions. Then told the puzzled front man that he should give this back to the teacher with all the mistakes corrected, so he/she (teacher) could get it right next time.

I wonder whatever became of my corrected sheet. Sure as sh*t it never got to the teacher (face face face) and it it ever did nothing was changed (face face face)!

R

I have been to several " language " schools as a potential teacher of English and I have returned their test sheet with correct answers and corrected questions. Needless to say I didn't get offered any work

When my son was studying for his ONET test he had me help him study the english part. He was supposed to choose which answer was correct when none of the answers were correct. The best we could do was choose which answers were the closest to being correct. They need to have a qualified person create the tests and study materials.

[lostmebike]

@ wolfmanjack

Aint that the truth my friend!

I have been teaching here for a while now, in northern and central Thailand and I can't even begin to count the amount times I've been asked to provide the answer key to the ONET's English questions. Like you said, there are numerous questions that are ambiguous at best. Many have 2 answers and many have no obvious clear answer, just get as close to correct as you can!

[bikerlou47]

This is one of the reasons I am homeschooling my daughter.

[nottocus]

How many farang teachers have had proper teacher training though?

[thaicbr]

How many farang teachers have had proper teacher training though?

What for?

Have you ever taught here?

There are 2 distinct foreign teacher sets.

One subject teaching and the other English conversation teaching. Very different.

Sent from my i-mobile i-STYLE Q6

[aTomsLife]

How many farang teachers have had proper teacher training though?

What for?

Have you ever taught here?

There are 2 distinct foreign teacher sets.

One subject teaching and the other English conversation teaching. Very different.

Sent from my i-mobile i-STYLE Q6

I'll bet he hasn't taught here. One could have a M.Ed from Harvard for all I care, it's not gonna matter much when s/he shows up to school, discovers the students weren't issued textbooks, no projector in the room, nor is there easy access to a copier to make handouts. Just you and 50 hyper kids who laugh like hyenas at even the mildest of occurrences. Amazing!

[wilcopops]

One of the factors has to be the large percentage of low quality English 'teachers' in Thailand (Thai and foreign).

...and you base this statement on what?

Regards foreigners, how many are properly qualified teachers? Bugger all I would say.

As for Thai English teachers, well....where to start?

How many properly qualified teachers would work for 25% of what they could earn in another country.

You need to make a distinction between a subject teacher (science etc) and an English conversation teacher.

There are actually a fair few subject teachers with adequate credentials for the subject they teach and there are also many conversation teachers that are good at their jobs.

As for Thai teachers there are also many good teachers. But the system is broken were a sub par teacher can pay to advance to director level and be in charge of the school.

Sent from my i-mobile i-STYLE Q6

"Regards foreigners, how many are properly qualified teachers? Bugger all I would say."

"How many properly qualified teachers would work for 25% of what they could earn in another country." -

You both seem remarkably illl-informed on this...as a result your conclusions are risible.

Edited June 13, 2013 by wilcopops

[nottocus]

How many farang teachers have had proper teacher training though?

What for?

Have you ever taught here?

There are 2 distinct foreign teacher sets.

One subject teaching and the other English conversation teaching. Very different.

Sent from my i-mobile i-STYLE Q6

Sounds the defensive attitude of someone who hasn't had adequate teacher training.

[wolfmanjack]

How many farang teachers have had proper teacher training though?

Good point.

How does a BA in math qualify you to teach English any more than being a native English speaker would?

But here is a question for you.

How many Thai teachers do you think are qualified to teach english? I can honestly say that I have no degree and am more qualified to teach English than any of the Thai English teachers I have met.

My kids go to a thai public school that claims they want to be the best in Chiang Mai and have hired a couple of Native English speakers to teach math but both of the non thai English teachers have English as a second language. However the one I spoke to does speak English quite well.

The main problems are ..................

The Thai English teachers can not speak English.

None of the teachers give any vocabulary for the kids to learn.

The two teachers that can actually speak English are spread out among something like 48 classes so the kids get them one hour a week at the most.

Honestly I am the one teaching my kids how to read, write, and speak English and they come home almost everyday laughing at how the thai teachers are trying to teach them English.

My solution would be to have a native English speaker that has an understandable accent with at least a high school education teach a conversational english class and have enough of them where the kids get 1 hour a day of conversational English.

[thaicbr]

 

How many farang teachers have had proper teacher training though?

What for?

Have you ever taught here?

There are 2 distinct foreign teacher sets.

One subject teaching and the other English conversation teaching. Very different.

Sent from my i-mobile i-STYLE Q6

 

 

Sounds the defensive attitude of someone who hasn't had adequate teacher training.

I have a tefl and 8 years teaching English conversation in Thailand. 6 years at the same school. What makes you qualified to judge?

Sent from my i-mobile i-STYLE Q6

[Noistar]

How many farang teachers have had proper teacher training though?

Good point.

How does a BA in math qualify you to teach English any more than being a native English speaker would?

But here is a question for you.

How many Thai teachers do you think are qualified to teach english? I can honestly say that I have no degree and am more qualified to teach English than any of the Thai English teachers I have met.

My kids go to a thai public school that claims they want to be the best in Chiang Mai and have hired a couple of Native English speakers to teach math but both of the non thai English teachers have English as a second language. However the one I spoke to does speak English quite well.

The main problems are ..................

The Thai English teachers can not speak English.

None of the teachers give any vocabulary for the kids to learn.

The two teachers that can actually speak English are spread out among something like 48 classes so the kids get them one hour a week at the most.

Honestly I am the one teaching my kids how to read, write, and speak English and they come home almost everyday laughing at how the thai teachers are trying to teach them English.

My solution would be to have a native English speaker that has an understandable accent with at least a high school education teach a conversational english class and have enough of them where the kids get 1 hour a day of conversational English.

And it never ceases to amaze me that the Thai version of a degree is barely a GCSE. A Thai and 1st world qualification may both be CALLED Degrees,but their worth is miles apart.

A 1st world Thai Degree gives the opportunity to teach Thai to Thais. Enough said

[Scott]

When people talk about qualified teachers, you need to be specific about what qualification to which you are referring. In many countries a TEFL is a qualification for teaching English. In Thailand it is not.

Thailand wants people with a University degree in education. If you have a degree but not in education, then you have a period of years to upgrade it to education. Whether or not this is necessary is a mute point, because it is what is usually needed to get a work permit.

I have been involved in the education field and I am not opposed to the idea of people having a degree. That said, I have seen many non-degreed people with a TEFL do a superlative job in teaching English, but they would be out of their depth in a different subject.

In Thailand the problem is that they a curriculum and a plan that is long term and assures the progression of the students from start to finish. As it is now, they may start with one strategy and then jump to another and then to another. In the end the students have accomplished little.

[wilcopops]

It always amuses me how when it comes to education "everyone's an expert"

Tell us prey, oh experts, what qualification do you need ........

A - to teach anything?

B - to teach English as a foreign language?