Thailand's English Skills Lowest In S E A

[sirchai]

More than one look kreung has spent a miserable year or two in high school here because of their English proficiency.

After all, how could an eleven year old possible speak English better than their teacher?

In the English program in the school up the road, they apparently rely on the luuk kreung to do most of the teaching.

More than one look kreung has spent a miserable year or two in high school here because of their English proficiency.

After all, how could an eleven year old possible speak English better than their teacher?

In the English program in the school up the road, they apparently rely on the luuk kreung to do most of the teaching.

Guess that's why they always ask my son, if they don't get it

Here's a true story, which happened in an EP environment. A student, who grew up in an English speaking country was just sent to attend a few weeks at a school in lower northeast, as the parents had something to do. She was in a grade four class.

The "teacher' from the islands in Asia made a spell check. She came up with a fishy word pronounced like HAAD.

The bright kid asking the "teacher: " Teacher, do you mean the one in your chest, or the opposite of soft?"

An American teacher who just wanted to make some copies in this classroom who'd heard that said: " I guess she meant the one in your chest".

The almost 'native English speaker from the Asian islands' then very upset to the American guy "Now you gave them the answer!" Keep in mind that It was a spell check by the way....: .-

Edited June 11, 2013 by sirchai

[wilcopops]

I think expats in Thailand relish this kind of survey result, but of course they aren't interested in looking into it further, much better to sit back and say "I told you so" as if they have some in depth knowledge of the cutlural ins-andouts of language leaning and a detailed knowledge of language teaching - suddenly everyone's an expert?

Singapore - ex- British colony

Malaysia - ex-British colony

Philippines - ex - US colony

Indonesia and Thailand not a lot of difference apart from the fat Idonesia had Dutch and English influences

How about Cambodia , Laos and Vietnam? French influence there.

Yes FRENCH - the survey is about ENGLISH

[Donnie Brasco]

Some years ago I spent a few weeks in an Isaan village.

The neighbor's four year old boy impressed me as only slightly more than an imbecile.

My Thai friends in this village agreed. They described the boy as aw-tiss-tick a word that Upcountry Thais will use

to describe a slow kid or a slightly retarded kid.

A few years later the mother hooked up with a Cobra Gold Marine and within a few months she, her two kids and the US Marine ended up in Okinawa. The kid spent three year there in a school for army kids from all over the place. This school was run and staffed by Americans and other Westerners.

Two years ago I was back in the village and I happened to run into this kid. He didn't remember me, of course but he appeared bored out of his mind and with no one to play with wandered over into the yard to have a chat. He spoke fluent American accented English. He was just bubbling over with enthusiasm and curiosity.

The kid was intellectually ALIVE.

I rest my case against Thailand's educational system.

[wilcopops]

Some years ago I spent a few weeks in an Isaan village.

The neighbor's four year old boy impressed me as only slightly more than an imbecile.

My Thai friends in this village agreed. They described the boy as aw-tiss-tick a word that Upcountry Thais will use

to describe a slow kid or a slightly retarded kid.

A few years later the mother hooked up with a Cobra Gold Marine and within a few months she, her two kids and the US Marine ended up in Okinawa. The kid spent three year there in a school for army kids from all over the place. This school was run and staffed by Americans and other Westerners.

Two years ago I was back in the village and I happened to run into this kid. He didn't remember me, of course but he appeared bored out of his mind and with no one to play with wandered over into the yard to have a chat. He spoke fluent American accented English. He was just bubbling over with enthusiasm and curiosity.

The kid was intellectually ALIVE.

I rest my case against Thailand's educational system.

Learning language is not a sign of high intellect - we ALL have an innate ability to learn language.

[JO1973]

I wonder how much better their results are; than say, Cambodia or Vietnam?

After living in Cambodia and Vietnam for eight years -- in both urban areas and the countryside -- I can honestly say that the level of English in both countries is leaps and bounds ahead of Thailand. From the moment you enter both countries you are met by people from all walks of life who can speak English. Even motorbike taxi drivers can speak better English than most college educated Thais. Walk into a bank in a provincial town in Cambodia or Vietnam and then walk into one in the financial district in Bangkok. The difference in the level of English is striking.

Thailand's days of being the only safe bet in Mainland Southeast Asia have passed. I hope the government realizes this and makes some serious changes to the education system. Paying teachers a better wage to attract the most qualified is a good start. When I left Vietnam two years ago pay for English teachers with a degree started at $20/hr; those with experience and/or advanced degrees (regardless of field) could earn $30 easily. And those wages aren’t at universities, there at run-of-the-mill English language schools. Universities can pay much more and that's no exaggeration. Maybe some fresh blood at the Thai Ministry of Education is what's needed.

Edited June 11, 2013 by JO1973

[wilcopops]

I'm not surprised at the results since two of the 5 countries assessed were either colonized or occupied by English speaking countries (Singapore and Phillipines). You can go on and on about the reasons why Thai's aren't as fluent in English but at the end of the day it might not be a national priority. Take Japan and Korea as examples. From my experience the average Thai speaks or understands more english then most of their East Asian Brethen. The average IQ of the population of East Asians is one of the highest in the world at 105 yet their english skills are poor. Why? Because their education systems did not make it a priority. Will they lose out on globalization? I doubt it. Using english skills as a measure of how good a country's education system is is misguided. Of course being bilingual or multilingual will certainly benefit an indvidual and English is certainly spoken worldwide though by no means is it a gold standard to measure a country's educational system as so many seem to imply.

That is an interesting point, but I think there is a very large pool of people who are fluently bilingual from having resettled overseas from both Korea and Japan. I think there are fewer Thai people in the same position.

Samsung changed all company correspondence for middle management and above, to English 4 years ago.

Three-quarters of the world's population is bilingual. ....many are tri- or multilingual - I notice many English speakers are surprised by this - presumably because they are so "Anglo-centric" when it comes to language.

in fact I'd say that English speakers are amongst of the most retarded language learners on the planet.

Edited June 11, 2013 by wilcopops

[watcharacters]

Me: You know about 2015 ASEAN ?

Thai pal: Yes

Me: You know the language will be English

Thai pal: Yes

Me: You don't speak English nor does 95% of the local people we both know

Thai pal: Yes

Me: You don't think this is a problem ?

Thai pal: No

Me: Oh really

Thai pal: We will mainly deal with Bpamma people and they speak Thai (or will learn to speak it)

.

Great...

[metisdead]

An inflammatory post has been removed as well as the replies.

[aTomsLife]

Some years ago I spent a few weeks in an Isaan village.

The neighbor's four year old boy impressed me as only slightly more than an imbecile.

My Thai friends in this village agreed. They described the boy as aw-tiss-tick a word that Upcountry Thais will use

to describe a slow kid or a slightly retarded kid.

A few years later the mother hooked up with a Cobra Gold Marine and within a few months she, her two kids and the US Marine ended up in Okinawa. The kid spent three year there in a school for army kids from all over the place. This school was run and staffed by Americans and other Westerners.

Two years ago I was back in the village and I happened to run into this kid. He didn't remember me, of course but he appeared bored out of his mind and with no one to play with wandered over into the yard to have a chat. He spoke fluent American accented English. He was just bubbling over with enthusiasm and curiosity.

The kid was intellectually ALIVE.

I rest my case against Thailand's educational system.

Learning language is not a sign of high intellect - we ALL have an innate ability to learn language.

You missed the point entirely. DB's anecdote wasn't about just language acquisition, but that that boy was capable of learning in general. It was the Thai Education System that was causing his perceived stupidity. I second this, as I see many bright kids in my classes, who are almost always drowned out by the mass of students who couldn't care less about actually learning something over the course of a day.

Edited June 11, 2013 by aTomsLife

[highonthai]

Maybe the problem is with the level of foreign English teachers that are hired here.

[Donnie Brasco]

I think expats in Thailand relish this kind of survey result, but of course they aren't interested in looking into it further, much better to sit back and say "I told you so" as if they have some in depth knowledge of the cutlural ins-andouts of language leaning and a detailed knowledge of language teaching - suddenly everyone's an expert?

Singapore - ex- British colony

Malaysia - ex-British colony

Philippines - ex - US colony

Indonesia and Thailand not a lot of difference apart from the fat Idonesia had Dutch and English influences

The 'facts' are that Indonesia was a Dutch colony. Moreover English is mandatory in Holland.

The facts also are that Thailand was never 'colonised' (sic) a fact that their xenophobic masters place great emphasis on. BUT they were conquered by the Burmese AND the Japanese. (and were it not for the allies Japanese would be the official language)

And for the record English, is widely spoken in Burma, particularly by anyone who is semi educated.

And finally, Aung San Suu Kyi 'whilst not your 'normal Burmese' has a command of English that would put many Oxford grads to shame.

The problem in Thailand is that parents don't see the need for their children to learn/speak English consequently not many do/or are proficient in the language.

From an early age, Thai kids are injected with a substitute for intelligence and critical thought.

Open your eyes it stares you in the face wherever you go.

[wilcopops]

"A Canadian friend of mine who teaches English -- well, he doesn't exactly teach ' English ' he teaches american English," My guess is he teaches Canadian English. US English and Canadian has a few differences. As for English spoken in England.... about 15 years ago I got to know staff at hotel in Nha Trang. Mr Mann, VN at desk said to "I think I speak pretty good English, but when Mr. X talks, I can't understand him." (X was from London, with cockney accent). I told him "No worry, I can't understand him either!". I taught English in Japan long time ago. The students took 12 years of English in school, but none of it was English conversation. Couldn't speak a lick. Got me a job, so that was fair dinkum...

I hope they don't speak like you "write" You are borderline illiterate, my friend.

" US English and Canadian has a few differences." Is the earth really flat?-

I would expect a teacher to understand the various types of English and teach the most appropriate. That is normally "International English" which is largely based on American (US) usage. I notice in Thailand that British English is quite common too.

[wilcopops]

Some years ago I spent a few weeks in an Isaan village.

The neighbor's four year old boy impressed me as only slightly more than an imbecile.

My Thai friends in this village agreed. They described the boy as aw-tiss-tick a word that Upcountry Thais will use

to describe a slow kid or a slightly retarded kid.

A few years later the mother hooked up with a Cobra Gold Marine and within a few months she, her two kids and the US Marine ended up in Okinawa. The kid spent three year there in a school for army kids from all over the place. This school was run and staffed by Americans and other Westerners.

Two years ago I was back in the village and I happened to run into this kid. He didn't remember me, of course but he appeared bored out of his mind and with no one to play with wandered over into the yard to have a chat. He spoke fluent American accented English. He was just bubbling over with enthusiasm and curiosity.

The kid was intellectually ALIVE.

I rest my case against Thailand's educational system.

Learning language is not a sign of high intellect - we ALL have an innate ability to learn language.

You missed the point entirely. DB's anecdote wasn't about just language acquisition, but that that boy was capable of learning in general. It was the Thai education system that was causing his perceived stupidity. I second this, as I see many bright kids in my classes, who are almost always drowned out by the mass of students who couldn't care less about actually learning something over the course of a day.

It's not the education system - it is the fault of the immediate social system firstly - and language learning is not necessarily an indicator of intellect.

[aTomsLife]

Maybe the problem is with the level of foreign English teachers that are hired here.

Many of these same teachers have also taught in Korea, Japan, Cambodia, Laos, China ..... you get the point. So, then, why don't these same problems exist there? Maybe you should try another question.

[Thai at Heart]

I'm not surprised at the results since two of the 5 countries assessed were either colonized or occupied by English speaking countries (Singapore and Phillipines). You can go on and on about the reasons why Thai's aren't as fluent in English but at the end of the day it might not be a national priority. Take Japan and Korea as examples. From my experience the average Thai speaks or understands more english then most of their East Asian Brethen. The average IQ of the population of East Asians is one of the highest in the world at 105 yet their english skills are poor. Why? Because their education systems did not make it a priority. Will they lose out on globalization? I doubt it. Using english skills as a measure of how good a country's education system is is misguided. Of course being bilingual or multilingual will certainly benefit an indvidual and English is certainly spoken worldwide though by no means is it a gold standard to measure a country's educational system as so many seem to imply.

That is an interesting point, but I think there is a very large pool of people who are fluently bilingual from having resettled overseas from both Korea and Japan. I think there are fewer Thai people in the same position.

Samsung changed all company correspondence for middle management and above, to English 4 years ago.

Three-quarters of the world's population is bilingual. ....many are tri- or multilingual - I notice many English speakers are surprised by this - presumably because they are so "Anglo-centric" when it comes to language.

in fact I'd say that English speakers are amongst of the most retarded language learners on the planet.

Ah. But to see that a country a nationalistic, with a company as successful as Samsung actively embracing English so aggressively, is in itself interesting. Edited June 11, 2013 by Thai at Heart

[wilcopops]

Ah. But to see that a country a nationalistic, with a company as successful as Samsung actively embracing English so aggressively, is in itself interesting.

For a start, ASEAN - will be using English as lingua franca.

It is also the lingua franca for business and in the case of Samsung, technology is an area that has used English for years.

although Chinese is VERY important - especially in Thailand, it is impossible for it to replace English in areas such as technology or computing as the Chinese writing system cannot be adapted sufficiently for these purposes.

[aTomsLife]

Some years ago I spent a few weeks in an Isaan village.

The neighbor's four year old boy impressed me as only slightly more than an imbecile.

My Thai friends in this village agreed. They described the boy as aw-tiss-tick a word that Upcountry Thais will use

to describe a slow kid or a slightly retarded kid.

A few years later the mother hooked up with a Cobra Gold Marine and within a few months she, her two kids and the US Marine ended up in Okinawa. The kid spent three year there in a school for army kids from all over the place. This school was run and staffed by Americans and other Westerners.

Two years ago I was back in the village and I happened to run into this kid. He didn't remember me, of course but he appeared bored out of his mind and with no one to play with wandered over into the yard to have a chat. He spoke fluent American accented English. He was just bubbling over with enthusiasm and curiosity.

The kid was intellectually ALIVE.

I rest my case against Thailand's educational system.

Learning language is not a sign of high intellect - we ALL have an innate ability to learn language.

You missed the point entirely. DB's anecdote wasn't about just language acquisition, but that that boy was capable of learning in general. It was the Thai education system that was causing his perceived stupidity. I second this, as I see many bright kids in my classes, who are almost always drowned out by the mass of students who couldn't care less about actually learning something over the course of a day.

It's not the education system - it is the fault of the immediate social system firstly - and language learning is not necessarily an indicator of intellect.

It's not the fault of the education system? I adamantly disagree. Can you clarify what "immediate social system" is, are you referring to the family unit? If so, sure, education usually must be valued in the home in order for the student to value education as well. But if education isn't valued in the home, it's likely because the parents themselves weren't properly educated. And so it's a rather pathetic cycle, which the powers-that-be pay lip service to, but ultimately ignore.

If "immediate social system" refers to the government, well, the education system is the government, so I don't see your point.

Lastly, I also disagree with your point about "language learning" not necessarily being an indicator for intellect. Studies have shown second language acquisition leads to brain development and a higher IQ.

Edited June 11, 2013 by aTomsLife

[Donnie Brasco]

It does not take a Rhodes scholar to work out that Singapore was an English colony so English is a second language, also Malaysia. And that The Philippines was an American protectorate so their second language American English. However as we ALL know Thailand was never conquered so knowing everything, they do not have or need English as a second language !

Oh, Thailand has been conquered, all right.

It's just that the people who did it the Coastal Chinese from Fukien and Swatow wouldn't dream of teaching these people how to speak Teo Chieu. Not in a hundred years.

I have been in board rooms where pleasantries were exchanged in this language.

Damned right these people have been conquered.

[wilcopops]

You are just repating old wives tales here - assumptions made about intellect an education basee d on nothing more than a column in the Daily Mail.

Sorry you're talking tripe. Kids can grow up quite happily learning 4 or 5 languages, this may equip them to better approach other subjects but our language learning ability - although varying from person to person - is not an indicator of how bright someone is. In fact there is another problem here and that is measuring intelligence - which CANNOT objectively be done.

for a child to be recognised as "having learning difficulties" a subjective assessment at best- requires the family etc to realise this - unfortunately they seldom do - neither will a teacher (they are not psychiatrists) in a class of 50 - it requires a social serve that is geared to this - as it doesn't even function that well in Western Countries it is unlikely to happen in rural Thailand.

Mentally impaired people all over the world acquire language sometimes several languages yet they still experience learning difficulties in other areas.

Edited June 11, 2013 by wilcopops

[pisico]

You mean it needed tests to come to this conclusion?

Several years ago I was in the situation of having to correspond at length with the head of the English department at one of the big Bangkok Universities . . . the lady in charge of teaching the teachers. I was astonished to discover that her written English was probably similar to that of a bright UK/USA/Aus etc 8-or 9-year-old . . . ie, confident but littered with grammatical and structural mistakes.

Will the Thai nation remain smug and offhand when it is suddenly out in the same competitive trading arena as the other ASEAN countries?

And will it keep its back turned with even fiercer pride, and shout even more loudly about how much finer the nation is than its . . . neighbours?

YOOOOOOOOOO BETCHA IT WILL!

R

Farang can't understand Thainess

[wilcopops]

It does not take a Rhodes scholar to work out that Singapore was an English colony so English is a second language, also Malaysia. And that The Philippines was an American protectorate so their second language American English. However as we ALL know Thailand was never conquered so knowing everything, they do not have or need English as a second language !

Oh, Thailand has been conquered, all right.

It's just that the people who did it the Coastal Chinese from Fukien and Swatow wouldn't dream of teaching these people how to speak Teo Chieu. Not in a hundred years.

I have been in board rooms where pleasantries were exchanged in this language.

Damned right these people have been conquered.

...and you will notice that both that many Thais speak very good mandarin or other Chinese dialects and that the Thai language itself is a Chinese influenced language.

[wilcopops]

You mean it needed tests to come to this conclusion?

Several years ago I was in the situation of having to correspond at length with the head of the English department at one of the big Bangkok Universities . . . the lady in charge of teaching the teachers. I was astonished to discover that her written English was probably similar to that of a bright UK/USA/Aus etc 8-or 9-year-old . . . ie, confident but littered with grammatical and structural mistakes.

Will the Thai nation remain smug and offhand when it is suddenly out in the same competitive trading arena as the other ASEAN countries?

And will it keep its back turned with even fiercer pride, and shout even more loudly about how much finer the nation is than its . . . neighbours?

YOOOOOOOOOO BETCHA IT WILL!

R

Farang can't understand Thainess

As if that is some kind of "get-out clause"!

[Thai at Heart]

Ah. But to see that a country a nationalistic, with a company as successful as Samsung actively embracing English so aggressively, is in itself interesting.

For a start, ASEAN - will be using English as lingua franca.

It is also the lingua franca for business and in the case of Samsung, technology is an area that has used English for years.

although Chinese is VERY important - especially in Thailand, it is impossible for it to replace English in areas such as technology or computing as the Chinese writing system cannot be adapted sufficiently for these purposes.

A friend of mine made a fortune teaching 45 year old Korean middle managers to write correct English.

Remember, Samsung is a gargantuan global company with many divisions in Korea alone. Today, all email is English, even in Korea.

Imagine a medium Thai company trying to achieve that?

[wilcopops]

Ah. But to see that a country a nationalistic, with a company as successful as Samsung actively embracing English so aggressively, is in itself interesting.

For a start, ASEAN - will be using English as lingua franca.

It is also the lingua franca for business and in the case of Samsung, technology is an area that has used English for years.

although Chinese is VERY important - especially in Thailand, it is impossible for it to replace English in areas such as technology or computing as the Chinese writing system cannot be adapted sufficiently for these purposes.

A friend of mine made a fortune teaching 45 year old Korean middle managers to write correct English.

Remember, Samsung is a gargantuan global company with many divisions in Korea alone. Today, all email is English, even in Korea.

Imagine a medium Thai company trying to achieve that?

...and you assume quite wrongly that Thai companies don't.

the crucial point is whether or not the business is international - then any company Thai or otherwise will train its staff in English....from operator up......

Edited June 11, 2013 by wilcopops

[Thai at Heart]

It does not take a Rhodes scholar to work out that Singapore was an English colony so English is a second language, also Malaysia. And that The Philippines was an American protectorate so their second language American English. However as we ALL know Thailand was never conquered so knowing everything, they do not have or need English as a second language !

Oh, Thailand has been conquered, all right.

It's just that the people who did it the Coastal Chinese from Fukien and Swatow wouldn't dream of teaching these people how to speak Teo Chieu. Not in a hundred years.

I have been in board rooms where pleasantries were exchanged in this language.

Damned right these people have been conquered.

...and you will notice that both that many Thais speak very good mandarin or other Chinese dialects and that the Thai language itself is a Chinese influenced language.

Haven't found many good mandarin speakers, but many of the various immigrant dialects.

[Thai at Heart]

Ah. But to see that a country a nationalistic, with a company as successful as Samsung actively embracing English so aggressively, is in itself interesting.

For a start, ASEAN - will be using English as lingua franca.

It is also the lingua franca for business and in the case of Samsung, technology is an area that has used English for years.

although Chinese is VERY important - especially in Thailand, it is impossible for it to replace English in areas such as technology or computing as the Chinese writing system cannot be adapted sufficiently for these purposes.

A friend of mine made a fortune teaching 45 year old Korean middle managers to write correct English.

Remember, Samsung is a gargantuan global company with many divisions in Korea alone. Today, all email is English, even in Korea.

Imagine a medium Thai company trying to achieve that?

...and you assume quite wrongly that Thai companies don't.

the crucial point is whether or not the business is international - then any company Thai or otherwise will train its staff in English....from operator up......

I mean ALL correspondence. Every last bit.

Oh yes, everyone within PTT, the biggest company in the country is just absolutely gushing with fluent English.

Am off to Siam cement tomorrow. Will let you know how I go trying to get on with them all in English in the plant.

Lololol.

Edited June 11, 2013 by Thai at Heart

[wilcopops]

It does not take a Rhodes scholar to work out that Singapore was an English colony so English is a second language, also Malaysia. And that The Philippines was an American protectorate so their second language American English. However as we ALL know Thailand was never conquered so knowing everything, they do not have or need English as a second language !

Oh, Thailand has been conquered, all right.

It's just that the people who did it the Coastal Chinese from Fukien and Swatow wouldn't dream of teaching these people how to speak Teo Chieu. Not in a hundred years.

I have been in board rooms where pleasantries were exchanged in this language.

Damned right these people have been conquered.

...and you will notice that both that many Thais speak very good mandarin or other Chinese dialects and that the Thai language itself is a Chinese influenced language.

Haven't found many good mandarin speakers, but many of the various immigrant dialects.

Eh? Do you mean "but not many" - check out the Chinese who immigrated here last century - they are often from Hunan and other areas and they still speak regional Chinese languages.

[pisico]

It does not take a Rhodes scholar to work out that Singapore was an English colony so English is a second language, also Malaysia. And that The Philippines was an American protectorate so their second language American English. However as we ALL know Thailand was never conquered so knowing everything, they do not have or need English as a second language !

Oh, Thailand has been conquered, all right.

It's just that the people who did it the Coastal Chinese from Fukien and Swatow wouldn't dream of teaching these people how to speak Teo Chieu. Not in a hundred years.

I have been in board rooms where pleasantries were exchanged in this language.

Damned right these people have been conquered.

Never conquered? Worse: occupied!!! Read about the times of Pibhun and the Japanese occupation that took place with only a smattering of shots from a police detail in Samut Phrakan. Soon after, a call came from Bangkok telling them to stand down. The railroad of death to Burma, under Japanese rule (not Thai) was the cause of many a death of Australian and British soldiers. Thailand at that time, declared war to the United State and the UK. The occupation lasted for years yet; Thais do not speak Japanese!

The River Kwai is not just a movie. The same way that denial is not a river in Africa.

[pisico]

You mean it needed tests to come to this conclusion?

Several years ago I was in the situation of having to correspond at length with the head of the English department at one of the big Bangkok Universities . . . the lady in charge of teaching the teachers. I was astonished to discover that her written English was probably similar to that of a bright UK/USA/Aus etc 8-or 9-year-old . . . ie, confident but littered with grammatical and structural mistakes.

Will the Thai nation remain smug and offhand when it is suddenly out in the same competitive trading arena as the other ASEAN countries?

And will it keep its back turned with even fiercer pride, and shout even more loudly about how much finer the nation is than its . . . neighbours?

YOOOOOOOOOO BETCHA IT WILL!

R

Farang can't understand Thainess

As if that is some kind of "get-out clause"!

A tongue in cheek comment to highlight the preposterous dilemma of the usual Thai apologists.

[wilcopops]

THe Thai education system is basically crap. They offer free education up to - how old now? - 12, 16? whatever....the point being that the product is shoddy and corrupt.

however there have been efforts made - native English speakers in most of the schools - this does more than teach English it brings aboput changes in teaching methods and questions the corrupt "no failure" system.

Edited June 11, 2013 by wilcopops