Unethical Banking

[Sirius1935]

I have received a deposit from overseas into my Bangkok Bank Savings Account.

The sender sent ฿10,500 from HSBC in the U.K. In Thai Baht and that excluded all charges.

I checked my bank account on-line today to find that my account has been credited with ฿9,950.

So the bank has swindled me out of ฿550 or 5% of the amount sent to them and they don't even itemise the deduction.

They simply credit my account with the remainder after they have take their cut.

Banks in Thailand make Australian and European banks seem ethical!

Simon

[Pib]

On the Thai bank end the Bangkok Bank fee is 0.25% (Bt200 min, Bt500 max) which means they charged a fee of Bt200 excluding any inter region/between Thai banks that may have also applied. This fee is typical for all Thai banks. The currency receipt/conversion fee is well stated on the Bangkok Bank web site. And it wouldn't surprise me there was an intermediary bank fee...that is a bank HSBC must use to transfer funds to a Thai bank...as the funds possibly passed through that intermediary bank they took a slice. Sending a small amount of funds like was sent to you will almost always result in a high percentage of it being taken in fee(s)...transferring funds internationally ain't like transferring funds within your home country where there may be no fees.

[yoshiwara]

Much ado about little.

[Dancealot]

This is normal, although I thought the max was B400, btw. when selecting receiver pays.

Indeed, Yoshiwara, It wont make so much difference if you transfer a million.

On the other side, pensions coming in are so low these days it pays to look at the small little things

[yoshiwara]

This is normal, although I thought the max was B400, btw. when selecting receiver pays.

Indeed, Yoshiwara, It wont make so much difference if you transfer a million.

On the other side, pensions coming in are so low these days it pays to look at the small little things:thumbsup:

Have you considered downsizing to disposable razors? You can save a fortune.

[Sirius1935]

This is normal, although I thought the max was B400, btw. when selecting receiver pays.

Indeed, Yoshiwara, It wont make so much difference if you transfer a million.

On the other side, pensions coming in are so low these days it pays to look at the small little things:thumbsup:

Have you considered downsizing to disposable razors? You can save a fortune.

Thank you for that really useful reply. I see why you have over 3,000 posts to your discredit.

I transfer an amount about ten time greater every two or three months and that always has roughly ฿200 deducted. In my opinion it is wrong for banks to deduct anything when someone is depositing money and very wrong to just take it without itemising it as a separate charge.

Edited June 12, 2013 by Sirius1935

[Pib]

This is normal, although I thought the max was B400, btw. when selecting receiver pays.

Indeed, Yoshiwara, It wont make so much difference if you transfer a million.

On the other side, pensions coming in are so low these days it pays to look at the small little things:thumbsup:

Have you considered downsizing to disposable razors? You can save a fortune.

Thank you for that really useful reply. I see why you have over 3,000 posts to your discredit.

I transfer an amount about ten time greater every two of three months and that always has roughly ฿200 deducted. In my opinion it is wrong for banks to deduct anything when someone is depositing money and very wrong to just take it without itemising it as a separate charge.

It very well could have been the sending method (how to share the transfer costs) chosen by the sender and/or intermediary bank fees. Intermediary bank fees (if applicable) will vary from sending bank to sending bank.

[gamini]

You must always request that funds never be sent in Thai baht. If for instant you wish to send GPP 1000 from the UK to Thailand it must be sent in GBP. If you request them to send Thai Baht they will sell you the baht and you will always lose on this kind of transaction. You have to buy the baht at thier selling price instead of selling your GBP at the buying price in Thailand. There is usually quite a difference

[Dancealot]

This is normal, although I thought the max was B400, btw. when selecting receiver pays.

Indeed, Yoshiwara, It wont make so much difference if you transfer a million.

On the other side, pensions coming in are so low these days it pays to look at the small little things:thumbsup:

Have you considered downsizing to disposable razors? You can save a fortune.

Thank you for that really useful reply. I see why you have over 3,000 posts to your discredit.

I transfer an amount about ten time greater every two or three months and that always has roughly ฿200 deducted. In my opinion it is wrong for banks to deduct anything when someone is depositing money and very wrong to just take it without itemising it as a separate charge.

In defence of Mr.Yoshi, i think he made a valid point by using a colourfull metaphore to make his view quickly understandable in a few words.

@Sirius, Don't be so... I understand your agitation. They do this anyways. It is up to the user to try to outclever the banks. And if this means using disposable razors. So be it.

[Sirius1935]

This is normal, although I thought the max was B400, btw. when selecting receiver pays.

Indeed, Yoshiwara, It wont make so much difference if you transfer a million.

On the other side, pensions coming in are so low these days it pays to look at the small little things:thumbsup:

Have you considered downsizing to disposable razors? You can save a fortune.

Thank you for that really useful reply. I see why you have over 3,000 posts to your discredit.

I transfer an amount about ten time greater every two or three months and that always has roughly ฿200 deducted. In my opinion it is wrong for banks to deduct anything when someone is depositing money and very wrong to just take it without itemising it as a separate charge.

In defence of Mr.Yoshi, i think he made a valid point by using a colourfull metaphore to make his view quickly understandable in a few words.

@Sirius, Don't be so... I understand your agitation. They do this anyways. It is up to the user to try to outclever the banks. And if this means using disposable razors. So be it.

Still a stupid comment and not constructive in any way.

However I have since checked my statement and the senders instructions. The sender chose to pay the U.K. charges only:

Charges are to be paid by:

Sender to pay HSBC (UK) charges only

HSBC(UK) will charge you:

17.00 GBP

I actually received ฿ 9,590. So they deducted ฿ 910.

Not a small amount. Even if that was their take on ten times that deposit it would be wicked.

I will make a complaint to Bangkok Bank and see what they have to say.

Simon

[manarak]

did the sender send baht or GBP ?

there is a huge rip-off on conversions to Thai baht in banks abroad.

Edited June 12, 2013 by manarak

[Dancealot]

It's getting too confusing now.

1 Always transfer money in euros or pounds to the Thai bank

2 Always let the Thai bank pay for transfer fees(to avoid the 17pound surgarge, for instance)

[Sirius1935]

did the sender send baht or GBP ?

there is a huge rip-off on conversions to Thai baht in banks abroad.

He sent Baht.

Here is a copy of his docket. He got a poor rate of exchange from HSBC. At the time the median rate was 48.2.

Somewhere along the way ฿ 910 was syphoned off.

Just because it in normal to make a deduction on a deposit doesn't make it right. It is still unethical.

You want to pay from:

HSBC ADVANCE GBP

Amount to be debited (excluding any charges) is:

GBP 224.69

You want to pay:

simon xxxx4xxx

Amount to be sent (excluding any charges)is:

THB 10,500.00

The exchange rate is:

1 GBP = 46.73074 THB

Fees & Charges

Charges are to be paid by:

Sender to pay HSBC (UK) charges only

HSBC(UK) will charge you:

17.00 GBP

Other information

[tjshannonigans]

Dear dancealot,

When the atm youvare using asked you if you would like to continue transaction with conversion or home currency exchange. ...what is better?

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[Dancealot]

Dear dancealot,

When the atm youvare using asked you if you would like to continue transaction with conversion or home currency exchange. ...what is better?

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Think outside of the box, mate.

Get a Thai bank account.

[NanLaew]

You must always request that funds never be sent in Thai baht. If for instant you wish to send GPP 1000 from the UK to Thailand it must be sent in GBP. If you request them to send Thai Baht they will sell you the baht and you will always lose on this kind of transaction. You have to buy the baht at thier selling price instead of selling your GBP at the buying price in Thailand. There is usually quite a difference

This is the correct advice. You should NEVER send baht from overseas to Thailand, ie. buy baht overseas. The remittance should always be in whatever the 'home' currency of the sending bank. Then you benefit from the better rate when the local Thai bank purchases the foreign currency.

This is not unique to Thai banks... sort of forex 101.

[Suradit69]

You must always request that funds never be sent in Thai baht. If for instant you wish to send GPP 1000 from the UK to Thailand it must be sent in GBP. If you request them to send Thai Baht they will sell you the baht and you will always lose on this kind of transaction. You have to buy the baht at thier selling price instead of selling your GBP at the buying price in Thailand. There is usually quite a difference

Yes, you always sent dollars or pounds or whatever when you do a transfer. The baht is a relatively thinly traded currency in other countries, so the buy/sell spread is almost always considerable and you're going to lose.

[Naam]

It's getting too confusing now.

1 Always transfer money in euros or pounds to the Thai bank

2 Always let the Thai bank pay for transfer fees(to avoid the 17pound surgarge, for instance)

if the transfer is made by SWIFT these charges are always born by the sender. no receiving bank can/will debit them from the transferred amount and credit the SWIFT organisation.

[worgeordie]

Unethical , Yes thats a good description of banks nowadays,they don't even trust each other ,

criminals with pens,they don't even have the courtesy to put a mask on when they rob you.

My daughter sent me some money from the UK in Sterling, there was 4 profits taken from the

transfer, first cost to send money,then 5 pounds taken by who?,bank said it must be middle bank

somewhere !,Bht 200 here ,then profit on exchanging into Bht.

.

If only there was someway to do without them,they know they have their customers by the short

and curly s and just do about whatever they like with us,they are always right their customers

always wrong if you have any dispute with them.

regards Worgeordie

[yoshiwara]

Unethical , Yes thats a good description of banks nowadays,they don't even trust each other ,

criminals with pens,they don't even have the courtesy to put a mask on when they rob you.

My daughter sent me some money from the UK in Sterling, there was 4 profits taken from the

transfer, first cost to send money,then 5 pounds taken by who?,bank said it must be middle bank

somewhere !,Bht 200 here ,then profit on exchanging into Bht.

.

If only there was someway to do without them,they know they have their customers by the short

and curly s and just do about whatever they like with us,they are always right their customers

always wrong if you have any dispute with them.

regards Worgeordie

If the charges are broken down into each process what exactly is the problem, particularly if the cost is set out in advance? Secondly, there is no obligation to use the bank as the originator of sending the funds. You can use a forex service. But then of course there are charges to convert in advance and not such a good conversion rate, so most people (in the case of baht) use their bank to send the sterling whatever to Thailand after considering the alternatives and still bitch about the banks. Probably because they are sending small amounts of money. So use Western Union then. What people are really complaining about are the charges on sending small amounts of money. PS if converting in advance (and not baht) then worth considering www.currencyfair.com

[Pib]

In these ThaiVisa horror posts I read about high fees being applied in some international money transfers and knowing the Thai bank end of the take is only approx 0.25% (Bt 200 mix, Bt500 max), all the BIG fees are being applied by the Sending and/or Intermediary banks...usually before the money ever enters Thailand. I say "usually" enters Thailand because sometimes the home country Sending bank may be using another Thai bank as one of the intermediary banks...like maybe Citibank Thailand receiving a wire transfer from overseas and the money is meant for a Bangkok Bank account...so, Citibank takes its intermediary fee and sends it along to Bangkok Bank who apply the above mentioned 0.25% fee. And sometimes above mentioned fees are applied when the Sender decides to fall for the Sending bank's recommendation to convert to Thai baht before sending which results in approx. another 3% loss to the Sender while they still get hit with the other fees on the money's trek to the intended receiving bank. Or the sender selects a fee-sharing sending method that heaps most of the fees on the receiving end. Yeap, usually its the senders own home country bank (maybe time for a new/less fee hungry bank) and the intermediary bank(s) is the source of the BIG fees....but too many Senders all too often assume most of the fees happened on the receiving Thai bank end.

Edited June 13, 2013 by Pib

[mania]

I think many times Bangkok Bank gets unfairly accused of exorbitant fees for transfers.

But the reality is they are very reasonable. I have transferred millions of Baht & never been charged

what I thought was exorbitant fees.

I transfer from the US using the ACH system & go through Bangkok Bank NY but I believe the fees are the same from UK etc.

The US fees are spelled out here

http://www.bangkokbank.com/bangkokbank/personalbanking/dailybanking/transferingfunds/TransferringIntoThailand/ReceivingFundsfromUSA/Pages/ReceivingFundsfromUSA.aspx

Transferred Amount

Fee (USD)

Not more than USD 50.00

Free

USD 50.01 - 100.00

3.00

USD 100.01 - 2,000.00

5.00

USD 2,000.01 - 50,000.00

10.00

USD 50,000.01 or more

20.00

That is the fee on the sending end which goes to Bangkok Bank NY. About half of what most banks in the US charge which is usually $45+

After that there is a small % fee on the Thailand end of receiving end averaging 200 but not to exceed 500 baht again quite reasonable

I think many times what is overlooked by upset posters is the fee that their own bank had tacked onto the transaction.

That is really the place to save money.

By using a local Bangkok Bank whether that be the USA NY branch or UK,Japan,Korea,Israel,Switzerland

then it becomes a local transfer at that end & not subject to the International transfer fee that most banks tack on in those countries.

Of course transferring small amounts of $300/10,000 THB it is going to seem more costly percentage wise.

Edited June 13, 2013 by mania

[ianguygil]

I am not offering to get involved in helping with a post which starts off calling us unethical. I would suggest that the OP looks up the term to ensure this is the term he actually means to use.

Some very useful posts by PIB, MANIA and others clarifying the situation. As stated, our fees are clearly available to all customers, they are consistent, are in general lower than the market and make us by far the leading bank in Thailand for foreign correspondent banks.

So no offer here to help with this post, other than again advising to look up the term "unethical". It is used in an inappropriate way in this post.

[worgeordie]

I am not offering to get involved in helping with a post which starts off calling us unethical. I would suggest that the OP looks up the term to ensure this is the term he actually means to use.

Some very useful posts by PIB, MANIA and others clarifying the situation. As stated, our fees are clearly available to all customers, they are consistent, are in general lower than the market and make us by far the leading bank in Thailand for foreign correspondent banks.

So no offer here to help with this post, other than again advising to look up the term "unethical". It is used in an inappropriate way in this post.

Would greedy be a better term to use?, banks are taking 4 lots of profit on one transfer, first you have a charge to send the money,then another charge from some intermediary bank,then a charge from the bank in Thailand to receive MY money, then another profit on exchanging the money into Baht, The banks know we have no options ,so its easy for them to take advantage of the customer, I don't expect the service provided to be free,just fair. regards Worgeordie

[mania]

Would greedy be a better term to use?, banks are taking 4 lots of profit on one transfer, first you have a charge to send the money,then another charge from some intermediary bank,then a charge from the bank in Thailand to receive MY money, then another profit on exchanging the money into Baht, The banks know we have no options ,so its easy for them to take advantage of the customer, I don't expect the service provided to be free,just fair. regards Worgeordie

Personally having used the services many times I just dont see it as greedy

I looked back at my records & a transfer of $25,000 USD cost $25 all in

$10 BKB-NY $15 in Thailand

edit: sorry had a mistake in there & re-typed.

But I do think it is reasonable as when I lived in the US & used my own bank the charge

was 40-45 USD

Ever use some US banks? Or worse yet something like Western Union etc.?

Edited June 13, 2013 by mania

[ianguygil]

I am not offering to get involved in helping with a post which starts off calling us unethical. I would suggest that the OP looks up the term to ensure this is the term he actually means to use.

Some very useful posts by PIB, MANIA and others clarifying the situation. As stated, our fees are clearly available to all customers, they are consistent, are in general lower than the market and make us by far the leading bank in Thailand for foreign correspondent banks.

So no offer here to help with this post, other than again advising to look up the term "unethical". It is used in an inappropriate way in this post.

Would greedy be a better term to use?, banks are taking 4 lots of profit on one transfer, first you have a charge to send the money,then another charge from some intermediary bank,then a charge from the bank in Thailand to receive MY money, then another profit on exchanging the money into Baht, The banks know we have no options ,so its easy for them to take advantage of the customer, I don't expect the service provided to be free,just fair. regards Worgeordie

So by your definition, having the lowest charges in the market makes us greedy? Does not make any sense to me.............

As for charges from sender banks, intermediary banks, how do you expect us to control that? Do you think we can tell your bank how much to charge you? Good luck on that one..

Fact is there are no intermediary banks in most cases with us as we have correspondent relationships with the most banks. It is your choice if you use some bank in the boondocks who does not have correspondent relatioships with any foreign banks. And if you use our facilities in the UK and USA you don't even end up paying SWIFT charges.

No, Not greedy. Not at all.

[worgeordie]

I am not offering to get involved in helping with a post which starts off calling us unethical. I would suggest that the OP looks up the term to ensure this is the term he actually means to use.

Some very useful posts by PIB, MANIA and others clarifying the situation. As stated, our fees are clearly available to all customers, they are consistent, are in general lower than the market and make us by far the leading bank in Thailand for foreign correspondent banks.

So no offer here to help with this post, other than again advising to look up the term "unethical". It is used in an inappropriate way in this post.

Would greedy be a better term to use?, banks are taking 4 lots of profit on one transfer, first you have a charge to send the money,then another charge from some intermediary bank,then a charge from the bank in Thailand to receive MY money, then another profit on exchanging the money into Baht, The banks know we have no options ,so its easy for them to take advantage of the customer, I don't expect the service provided to be free,just fair. regards Worgeordie

So by your definition, having the lowest charges in the market makes us greedy? Does not make any sense to me.............

As for charges from sender banks, intermediary banks, how do you expect us to control that? Do you think we can tell your bank how much to charge you? Good luck on that one..

Fact is there are no intermediary banks in most cases with us as we have correspondent relationships with the most banks. It is your choice if you use some bank in the boondocks who does not have correspondent relatioships with any foreign banks. And if you use our facilities in the UK and USA you don't even end up paying SWIFT charges.

No, Not greedy. Not at all.

Hi Ianguygil ,I don't know which bank you work for,I was saying the majority of banks are greedy,just look at the problems in the world lately ,all caused by greed of the banks,doing anything so they can get their obscene bonuses, the banks don't even trust each other,

never mind their customers, just saying 4 profits taken on 1 transfer. If you post an airmail letter in say Newcastle UK, you pay for the stamps, you don't pay any extra ,when it gets to Heathrow or when it arrives in Bangkok,or when it arrive to my home in Chiang Mai.

regards Worgeordie PS no I would not send my money with the post,trust them even less than the banks.

[yoshiwara]

I am not offering to get involved in helping with a post which starts off calling us unethical. I would suggest that the OP looks up the term to ensure this is the term he actually means to use.

Some very useful posts by PIB, MANIA and others clarifying the situation. As stated, our fees are clearly available to all customers, they are consistent, are in general lower than the market and make us by far the leading bank in Thailand for foreign correspondent banks.

So no offer here to help with this post, other than again advising to look up the term "unethical". It is used in an inappropriate way in this post.

Would greedy be a better term to use?, banks are taking 4 lots of profit on one transfer, first you have a charge to send the money,then another charge from some intermediary bank,then a charge from the bank in Thailand to receive MY money, then another profit on exchanging the money into Baht, The banks know we have no options ,so its easy for them to take advantage of the customer, I don't expect the service provided to be free,just fair. regards Worgeordie

So by your definition, having the lowest charges in the market makes us greedy? Does not make any sense to me.............

As for charges from sender banks, intermediary banks, how do you expect us to control that? Do you think we can tell your bank how much to charge you? Good luck on that one..

Fact is there are no intermediary banks in most cases with us as we have correspondent relationships with the most banks. It is your choice if you use some bank in the boondocks who does not have correspondent relatioships with any foreign banks. And if you use our facilities in the UK and USA you don't even end up paying SWIFT charges.

No, Not greedy. Not at all.

Hi Ianguygil ,I don't know which bank you work for,I was saying the majority of banks are greedy,just look at the problems in the world lately ,all caused by greed of the banks,doing anything so they can get their obscene bonuses, the banks don't even trust each other,

never mind their customers, just saying 4 profits taken on 1 transfer. If you post an airmail letter in say Newcastle UK, you pay for the stamps, you don't pay any extra ,when it gets to Heathrow or when it arrives in Bangkok,or when it arrive to my home in Chiang Mai.

regards Worgeordie PS no I would not send my money with the post,trust them even less than the banks.

That's right and in Newcastle you can cash your pay check/social security payment at the local boozer. Edited June 13, 2013 by yoshiwara

[ianguygil]

I am not offering to get involved in helping with a post which starts off calling us unethical. I would suggest that the OP looks up the term to ensure this is the term he actually means to use.

Some very useful posts by PIB, MANIA and others clarifying the situation. As stated, our fees are clearly available to all customers, they are consistent, are in general lower than the market and make us by far the leading bank in Thailand for foreign correspondent banks.

So no offer here to help with this post, other than again advising to look up the term "unethical". It is used in an inappropriate way in this post.

Would greedy be a better term to use?, banks are taking 4 lots of profit on one transfer, first you have a charge to send the money,then another charge from some intermediary bank,then a charge from the bank in Thailand to receive MY money, then another profit on exchanging the money into Baht, The banks know we have no options ,so its easy for them to take advantage of the customer, I don't expect the service provided to be free,just fair. regards Worgeordie

So by your definition, having the lowest charges in the market makes us greedy? Does not make any sense to me.............

As for charges from sender banks, intermediary banks, how do you expect us to control that? Do you think we can tell your bank how much to charge you? Good luck on that one..

Fact is there are no intermediary banks in most cases with us as we have correspondent relationships with the most banks. It is your choice if you use some bank in the boondocks who does not have correspondent relatioships with any foreign banks. And if you use our facilities in the UK and USA you don't even end up paying SWIFT charges.

No, Not greedy. Not at all.

Hi Ianguygil ,I don't know which bank you work for,I was saying the majority of banks are greedy,just look at the problems in the world lately ,all caused by greed of the banks,doing anything so they can get their obscene bonuses, the banks don't even trust each other,

never mind their customers, just saying 4 profits taken on 1 transfer. If you post an airmail letter in say Newcastle UK, you pay for the stamps, you don't pay any extra ,when it gets to Heathrow or when it arrives in Bangkok,or when it arrive to my home in Chiang Mai.

regards Worgeordie PS no I would not send my money with the post,trust them even less than the banks.

I am an Executive VP in Bangkok Bank. This thread started off by accusing us of being unethical, which we clearly are not. The trust of our customers is our most valued asset. Then you accused us of being greedy and I directly addressed that.

Your analogy to the international post service is not valid. We are a business not a monopoly and we operate in a highly competitive market.

We were not involved in the Banking scandals you mention. To generalize about bankers bonuses is just noise. We were not part of the failed banks in the US or the UK. Go complain to dear Gordon Brown and Mr Cameron and his pals if you want to go over Northern Rock,RBS etc. It has no relation to us at all. To say otherwise is both foolish and unfair.

[Sirius1935]

This is normal, although I thought the max was B400, btw. when selecting receiver pays.

Indeed, Yoshiwara, It wont make so much difference if you transfer a million.

On the other side, pensions coming in are so low these days it pays to look at the small little things:thumbsup:

Have you considered downsizing to disposable razors? You can save a fortune.

Thank you for that really useful reply. I see why you have over 3,000 posts to your discredit.

I transfer an amount about ten time greater every two of three months and that always has roughly ฿200 deducted. In my opinion it is wrong for banks to deduct anything when someone is depositing money and very wrong to just take it without itemising it as a separate charge.

It very well could have been the sending method (how to share the transfer costs) chosen by the sender and/or intermediary bank fees. Intermediary bank fees (if applicable) will vary from sending bank to sending bank.

The sender paid the HSBC sending fees. I have asked Bangkok Bank if there was an intermediary bank in this transfer but I doubt there was. I am awaiting their reply.