Having a WP on a non imm O Visa.

[AlfGarnett]

Had 3 Immigration officers come into my office, demanding to see my WP and Passport. They then proceeded to inform me that this Visa does not allow employment, with the possibility of Jail time. Yet I was issued my O Visa renewed after I was issued a WP, which local Immigration Office was aware of, and in full knowledge of me being a Company employee.

So the simple question is, I have a vaild non imm O and valid WP, can I legally work?

All Company accounts are upto date.

Regards

A.

[jrtmedic]

You got a valid non im "O" VISA ?

From a local immigration office ?

Maybe best if you start again with your query

Edited June 13, 2013 by jrtmedic

[AlfGarnett]

You got a valid non im "O" VISA ?

From a local immigration office ?

yes the 90 day report, single entry type.

[jrtmedic]

Sorry you have lost me !

Best wait for the experts !

[Tywais]

I've been getting WP renewals and annual extensions on a NON-ED for 20 years with no issues. But being that long maybe I'm 'in the system'.

[lopburi3]

You have a non immigrant O visa or an extension of stay from Immigration? On what basis was your visa or extension of stay issued? Retirement/Marriage or other? Work is allowed on a non immigrant O or extensions of stay for marriage. Normally it is not allowed for retirement but if Labor Office issued a work permit knowing your status the work would be legal and have nothing to do with immigration.

[AlfGarnett]

I'm lost too!

[Tywais]

I believe that a VISA would have a 'not permitted to work' stamp along with it if not allowed.

[AlfGarnett]

For marriage, has been for 3 years, so Labour knew I only have this type and still issued a WP. So why these Immigration people on my case, as I have a valid Visa? They have said I have 2 Weeks to get a B visa. Yet my local Immigration officer who issued my Visa says no problem, can work.Just obviously worrying as I am straight and thought I was totally legal.

[Tywais]

For marriage, has been for 3 years, so Labour knew I only have this type and still issued a WP. So why these Immigration people on my case, as I have a valid Visa? They have said I have 2 Weeks to get a B visa. Yet my local Immigration officer who issued my Visa says no problem, can work.Just obviously worrying as I am straight and thought I was totally legal.

If convenient go to the labor department in person and explain the situation. If all is in order, have them contact immigration head and have a chat. Wonder if these are 'real' immigration police?

[Dork]

Install CCTV (with sound) in your office. If they come again ask them to either arrest you or leave immediately. If they don't do either, call the local police.

[digitalchromakey]

What area of Thailand are you in and are you sure they are really from the Immigration Dept?

Foe example in Phuket the Tourist Police have recently been shaking down a number of foreign managed businesses in the Kata/Chalong area by going in and checking paper work, then extorting money if any anomalies are found (e.g. one case I heard of recently involved 30,000 THB being paid [presumably not to 'press charges'] for a WP holder having a different address in an otherwise valid WP to the actual work location, another involved asking for proof of valid software licenses for office PCs).

Often when you have these kind of problems it is from corrupt officials who are abusing their badge of office to extort money.

For sure the anomalies detected are real, that's why the business owners are often coughing up the cash demanded to feed these cockroaches.

As has been advised - go to Labour and Immigration now to check that your extension/visa is ok for your WP, try and get a contact number so if the same people call round again you can phone to check confirmation.

[Sceptict11]

I live on Phuket Island

Its interesting that when " foreign managed businesses" get caught out the first words uttered are "corruption" and " extortion". Making these noises does not lessen culpability.

For example I am personally aware of a "foreign managed business" which had no Thai staff ! The owner was arrested and put before the court.

Recently there have been many arrests on the island involving time share touts , illegal travel agents and people working without permits. All arrested, charged and taken to court.

Those who stand on the sidelines and shout "corruption and extortion" should look at themselves and either come up with the evidence or shut up.

[digitalchromakey]

I live on Phuket Island

Its interesting that when " foreign managed businesses" get caught out the first words uttered are "corruption" and " extortion". Making these noises does not lessen culpability.

For example I am personally aware of a "foreign managed business" which had no Thai staff ! The owner was arrested and put before the court.

Recently there have been many arrests on the island involving time share touts , illegal travel agents and people working without permits. All arrested, charged and taken to court.

Those who stand on the sidelines and shout "corruption and extortion" should look at themselves and either come up with the evidence or shut up.

Believe what you want to beileve; the two companies I referred to above are both legitimate, long term businesses, with significant numbers of Thai employees, not bogus or illegitimate operations (of which thre are a certainly few).

However I have no intention of embarrsing the managers by naming the companies and I am also not sure if forum rules would allow it anyway.

But don't be distracted by the issue of scum bag time share and illegitimate travel agents, these are small fish in big pond. Many expats who live life reading the english language newspapers and chatting to their mates do not appreciate the misery that tax paying, 100% legitimate business owners and managers are put under by the various significantly corrupt police divisions that operate here.

Yes, sure they might have been stung for the odd few hundred THB for not wearing a helmet, but generaly the expat community do not have much dealing with the darker side of Phuket's Police as expats per se are not seen as a particularrly fertile territory for income, they are more useful as a dressing to hide the darker goings on that happen here.

Businesses (most all of them - Thai owned as well) are targeted for extortion and corrupt payments by the police on a regular monthly basis. Whatever kind of company you run you will find it impossible to satisfy the full gamut of regulations and compete without running into some division of the BIB who for example pull your company vehicles up and find something wrong with the vehicle or the workers, then offer for a few thousand pcm to give you 'free passage or insurance for the month', or call round to your office to find something awry.

For an example in case, to transport workers you need a blue plated vehicle, to transport customers you need a green/white/yellow plated vehicle, to transport goods you need a white/green/ 40/80 registration vehicle. So to move goods, workers and customers and to be 100% legit you need a miniumum of three types of vehicle - you are normally competing with companies who pay approx 2,000 THB pcm to each police division they drive in to use only one vehicle for all three areas - very cost effective investment - hence corruption is fuelled as it is often cheaper to pay this 'whiskey money' than to meet the letter of the law; corrupt police know this and exploit it to the full.

Rumour has it that police officers from other regions pay significant amounts of cash for a posting to say Phuket, where as a civil servant with a miserable goverment salary you can quickly build a healthy retirement nest egg.

Trust me, I know as an active (and legitimate) business owner here that Phuket stinks of corruption and extortion, but it is certainly not clearly visible to your average expat.

Oh and by the way, I love this country and it's people (on balance) and have no desire to return to the country of my birth, so I am in Rome.

Edited June 13, 2013 by digitalchromakey

[Satcommlee]

I'm on Non-O and have work permit, no problems.. in fact it gives you privileges if you have Thai Spouse or family.. company capital only 1 MIllion, only 2 thai staff required etc...

[guru]

I also have a non imm o visa (marriage) and wp

[AlfGarnett]

Off to see local Immigration Officer at 11am toda, he said he will speak to them by then. The bigger picture would mean local Immigration Offices would lose all that revenue to foreign Thai consulates, who is issue B visas. So hopefully the bigger picture will work in a foreigners favour, I actually offered to close my office and go to see the officer with the 'inspectors' myself, but they just ignored the statement, funny that.

[yankee99]

Install CCTV (with sound) in your office. If they come again ask them to either arrest you or leave immediately. If they don't do either, call the local police.

Install cctv is a good idea. The rest of the advice is a bad idea.

[Bredbury Blue]

I'm on Non-O and have work permit, no problems.. in fact it gives you privileges if you have Thai Spouse or family.. company capital only 1 MIllion, only 2 thai staff required etc...

I didn't know that. Interested in the etc. Anybody know which Thai Labour or Immigration Dept website i can i read for details?

[AgentOkeyDokey]

I live on Phuket Island

Its interesting that when " foreign managed businesses" get caught out the first words uttered are "corruption" and " extortion". Making these noises does not lessen culpability.

For example I am personally aware of a "foreign managed business" which had no Thai staff ! The owner was arrested and put before the court.

Recently there have been many arrests on the island involving time share touts , illegal travel agents and people working without permits. All arrested, charged and taken to court.

Those who stand on the sidelines and shout "corruption and extortion" should look at themselves and either come up with the evidence or shut up.

Believe what you want to beileve; the two companies I referred to above are both legitimate, long term businesses, with significant numbers of Thai employees, not bogus or illegitimate operations (of which thre are a certainly few).

However I have no intention of embarrsing the managers by naming the companies and I am also not sure if forum rules would allow it anyway.

But don't be distracted by the issue of scum bag time share and illegitimate travel agents, these are small fish in big pond. Many expats who live life reading the english language newspapers and chatting to their mates do not appreciate the misery that tax paying, 100% legitimate business owners and managers are put under by the various significantly corrupt police divisions that operate here.

Yes, sure they might have been stung for the odd few hundred THB for not wearing a helmet, but generaly the expat community do not have much dealing with the darker side of Phuket's Police as expats per se are not seen as a particularrly fertile territory for income, they are more useful as a dressing to hide the darker goings on that happen here.

Businesses (most all of them - Thai owned as well) are targeted for extortion and corrupt payments by the police on a regular monthly basis. Whatever kind of company you run you will find it impossible to satisfy the full gamut of regulations and compete without running into some division of the BIB who for example pull your company vehicles up and find something wrong with the vehicle or the workers, then offer for a few thousand pcm to give you 'free passage or insurance for the month', or call round to your office to find something awry.

For an example in case, to transport workers you need a blue plated vehicle, to transport customers you need a green/white/yellow plated vehicle, to transport goods you need a white/green/ 40/80 registration vehicle. So to move goods, workers and customers and to be 100% legit you need a miniumum of three types of vehicle - you are normally competing with companies who pay approx 2,000 THB pcm to each police division they drive in to use only one vehicle for all three areas - very cost effective investment - hence corruption is fuelled as it is often cheaper to pay this 'whiskey money' than to meet the letter of the law; corrupt police know this and exploit it to the full.

Rumour has it that police officers from other regions pay significant amounts of cash for a posting to say Phuket, where as a civil servant with a miserable goverment salary you can quickly build a healthy retirement nest egg.

Trust me, I know as an active (and legitimate) business owner here that Phuket stinks of corruption and extortion, but it is certainly not clearly visible to your average expat.

Oh and by the way, I love this country and it's people (on balance) and have no desire to return to the country of my birth, so I am in Rome.

Bravo digitalchromakey!!!! Point well made.

[Bredbury Blue]

I don’t want to hijack AlfGarnett’s thread, but I have a related question for your clarification.

On Samut Prakarn Immigration ‘Married to a Thai Wife’ webpage (regarding Imm O visa), as part of the requirements in the application/renewal process, it states:

http://samutprakan.immigration.go.th/visa-extension/to-support-a-wife-who-is-thai-citizen-or-who-is-a-permanent-resident.html#comment-5

In case of the applicant is working need more documents:

X

Y

Z

“OR”

In case of the applicant has an account in Thai Bank of not less than *400,000* in Thai bank per month more documents needed:

* NOTE: I think the website statement is wrong and should state something like ‘income 40k per month or proof of having 400k in Thai bank account 2 months prior to application’

X

Y

Z

Our Thai lawyer therefore reads the situation that if you are [a] working with WP but have either (i) proof of income of 40k per month or (ii) proof of having 400k in Thai bank account 2 months prior to application, then you can choose to apply/renew by either of [a] or (i)/(ii). Would you agree?

Edited June 14, 2013 by lopburi3
correct font

[lopburi3]

Flame post removed.

Yes you can use either method to extend if income is more than 40k per month and you bank deposit for 2 months has been 400k or more as long as it does not cause an issue with labor department (they might require extension be on basis of work pay to issue work permit - but have no reports that they do)

[schondie]

I've had a WP twice now on my Non O visa without any problems from Immigration. I suppose it depends where you live and how strict Immigration wants to be.

As long as the Non O visa doesn't have Employment Prohibited stamped on it, I can't see the fuss unless they're after a thirst quencher for their work.

[ubonjoe]

More than likely the non-o visas mentioned here are no longer valid anyway because they have already expired since those posting are on an extension of stay based upon marriage not a visa.

If you have a work permit it does not matter what type visa or extension you have. A work permit allows you to work not a visa or extension of stay.

That would mean that the useless employment not allowed stamp would mean nothing anyway.

[abrahamzvi]

I live on Phuket Island

Its interesting that when " foreign managed businesses" get caught out the first words uttered are "corruption" and " extortion". Making these noises does not lessen culpability.

For example I am personally aware of a "foreign managed business" which had no Thai staff ! The owner was arrested and put before the court.

Recently there have been many arrests on the island involving time share touts , illegal travel agents and people working without permits. All arrested, charged and taken to court.

Those who stand on the sidelines and shout "corruption and extortion" should look at themselves and either come up with the evidence or shut up.

Believe what you want to beileve; the two companies I referred to above are both legitimate, long term businesses, with significant numbers of Thai employees, not bogus or illegitimate operations (of which thre are a certainly few).

However I have no intention of embarrsing the managers by naming the companies and I am also not sure if forum rules would allow it anyway.

But don't be distracted by the issue of scum bag time share and illegitimate travel agents, these are small fish in big pond. Many expats who live life reading the english language newspapers and chatting to their mates do not appreciate the misery that tax paying, 100% legitimate business owners and managers are put under by the various significantly corrupt police divisions that operate here.

Yes, sure they might have been stung for the odd few hundred THB for not wearing a helmet, but generaly the expat community do not have much dealing with the darker side of Phuket's Police as expats per se are not seen as a particularrly fertile territory for income, they are more useful as a dressing to hide the darker goings on that happen here.

Businesses (most all of them - Thai owned as well) are targeted for extortion and corrupt payments by the police on a regular monthly basis. Whatever kind of company you run you will find it impossible to satisfy the full gamut of regulations and compete without running into some division of the BIB who for example pull your company vehicles up and find something wrong with the vehicle or the workers, then offer for a few thousand pcm to give you 'free passage or insurance for the month', or call round to your office to find something awry.

For an example in case, to transport workers you need a blue plated vehicle, to transport customers you need a green/white/yellow plated vehicle, to transport goods you need a white/green/ 40/80 registration vehicle. So to move goods, workers and customers and to be 100% legit you need a miniumum of three types of vehicle - you are normally competing with companies who pay approx 2,000 THB pcm to each police division they drive in to use only one vehicle for all three areas - very cost effective investment - hence corruption is fuelled as it is often cheaper to pay this 'whiskey money' than to meet the letter of the law; corrupt police know this and exploit it to the full.

Rumour has it that police officers from other regions pay significant amounts of cash for a posting to say Phuket, where as a civil servant with a miserable goverment salary you can quickly build a healthy retirement nest egg.

Trust me, I know as an active (and legitimate) business owner here that Phuket stinks of corruption and extortion, but it is certainly not clearly visible to your average expat.

Oh and by the way, I love this country and it's people (on balance) and have no desire to return to the country of my birth, so I am in Rome.

I am very surprised at your last sentence. If it is as bad as you describe, how come you love such a "bad place"? Or is the country you come from worse?

I am not saying everything is excellent in Thailand, but as an expatriate who has been living here for 12 years, I am getting fed up with all the 'awful" stories about corruption and extortion, which may or may not exist. However, may I suggest that if all expatriate abide by the laws and regulations (no visa runs, no WP scams etc) may be there would be less complaints!!!

[chrisinth]

I'm on Non-O and have work permit, no problems.. in fact it gives you privileges if you have Thai Spouse or family.. company capital only 1 MIllion, only 2 thai staff required etc...

+1

[NoshowJones]

I live on Phuket Island

Its interesting that when " foreign managed businesses" get caught out the first words uttered are "corruption" and " extortion". Making these noises does not lessen culpability.

For example I am personally aware of a "foreign managed business" which had no Thai staff ! The owner was arrested and put before the court.

Recently there have been many arrests on the island involving time share touts , illegal travel agents and people working without permits. All arrested, charged and taken to court.

Those who stand on the sidelines and shout "corruption and extortion" should look at themselves and either come up with the evidence or shut up.

Believe what you want to beileve; the two companies I referred to above are both legitimate, long term businesses, with significant numbers of Thai employees, not bogus or illegitimate operations (of which thre are a certainly few).

However I have no intention of embarrsing the managers by naming the companies and I am also not sure if forum rules would allow it anyway.

But don't be distracted by the issue of scum bag time share and illegitimate travel agents, these are small fish in big pond. Many expats who live life reading the english language newspapers and chatting to their mates do not appreciate the misery that tax paying, 100% legitimate business owners and managers are put under by the various significantly corrupt police divisions that operate here.

Yes, sure they might have been stung for the odd few hundred THB for not wearing a helmet, but generaly the expat community do not have much dealing with the darker side of Phuket's Police as expats per se are not seen as a particularrly fertile territory for income, they are more useful as a dressing to hide the darker goings on that happen here.

Businesses (most all of them - Thai owned as well) are targeted for extortion and corrupt payments by the police on a regular monthly basis. Whatever kind of company you run you will find it impossible to satisfy the full gamut of regulations and compete without running into some division of the BIB who for example pull your company vehicles up and find something wrong with the vehicle or the workers, then offer for a few thousand pcm to give you 'free passage or insurance for the month', or call round to your office to find something awry.

For an example in case, to transport workers you need a blue plated vehicle, to transport customers you need a green/white/yellow plated vehicle, to transport goods you need a white/green/ 40/80 registration vehicle. So to move goods, workers and customers and to be 100% legit you need a miniumum of three types of vehicle - you are normally competing with companies who pay approx 2,000 THB pcm to each police division they drive in to use only one vehicle for all three areas - very cost effective investment - hence corruption is fuelled as it is often cheaper to pay this 'whiskey money' than to meet the letter of the law; corrupt police know this and exploit it to the full.

Rumour has it that police officers from other regions pay significant amounts of cash for a posting to say Phuket, where as a civil servant with a miserable goverment salary you can quickly build a healthy retirement nest egg.

Trust me, I know as an active (and legitimate) business owner here that Phuket stinks of corruption and extortion, but it is certainly not clearly visible to your average expat.

Oh and by the way, I love this country and it's people (on balance) and have no desire to return to the country of my birth, so I am in Rome.

I am very surprised at your last sentence. If it is as bad as you describe, how come you love such a "bad place"? Or is the country you come from worse?

I am not saying everything is excellent in Thailand, but as an expatriate who has been living here for 12 years, I am getting fed up with all the 'awful" stories about corruption and extortion, which may or may not exist. However, may I suggest that if all expatriate abide by the laws and regulations (no visa runs, no WP scams etc) may be there would be less complaints!!!

I would bet that a high percentage of Farangs living in Thailand are happy about the corruption here for obvious reasons.

[Sceptict11]

I live on Phuket Island

Its interesting that when " foreign managed businesses" get caught out the first words uttered are "corruption" and " extortion". Making these noises does not lessen culpability.

For example I am personally aware of a "foreign managed business" which had no Thai staff ! The owner was arrested and put before the court.

Recently there have been many arrests on the island involving time share touts , illegal travel agents and people working without permits. All arrested, charged and taken to court.

Those who stand on the sidelines and shout "corruption and extortion" should look at themselves and either come up with the evidence or shut up.

Believe what you want to beileve; the two companies I referred to above are both legitimate, long term businesses, with significant numbers of Thai employees, not bogus or illegitimate operations (of which thre are a certainly few).

However I have no intention of embarrsing the managers by naming the companies and I am also not sure if forum rules would allow it anyway.

But don't be distracted by the issue of scum bag time share and illegitimate travel agents, these are small fish in big pond. Many expats who live life reading the english language newspapers and chatting to their mates do not appreciate the misery that tax paying, 100% legitimate business owners and managers are put under by the various significantly corrupt police divisions that operate here.

Yes, sure they might have been stung for the odd few hundred THB for not wearing a helmet, but generaly the expat community do not have much dealing with the darker side of Phuket's Police as expats per se are not seen as a particularrly fertile territory for income, they are more useful as a dressing to hide the darker goings on that happen here.

Businesses (most all of them - Thai owned as well) are targeted for extortion and corrupt payments by the police on a regular monthly basis. Whatever kind of company you run you will find it impossible to satisfy the full gamut of regulations and compete without running into some division of the BIB who for example pull your company vehicles up and find something wrong with the vehicle or the workers, then offer for a few thousand pcm to give you 'free passage or insurance for the month', or call round to your office to find something awry.

For an example in case, to transport workers you need a blue plated vehicle, to transport customers you need a green/white/yellow plated vehicle, to transport goods you need a white/green/ 40/80 registration vehicle. So to move goods, workers and customers and to be 100% legit you need a miniumum of three types of vehicle - you are normally competing with companies who pay approx 2,000 THB pcm to each police division they drive in to use only one vehicle for all three areas - very cost effective investment - hence corruption is fuelled as it is often cheaper to pay this 'whiskey money' than to meet the letter of the law; corrupt police know this and exploit it to the full.

Rumour has it that police officers from other regions pay significant amounts of cash for a posting to say Phuket, where as a civil servant with a miserable goverment salary you can quickly build a healthy retirement nest egg.

Trust me, I know as an active (and legitimate) business owner here that Phuket stinks of corruption and extortion, but it is certainly not clearly visible to your average expat.

Oh and by the way, I love this country and it's people (on balance) and have no desire to return to the country of my birth, so I am in Rome.

Interesting.

A good friend of mine has run a legitimate business here on Phuket for the past 9 years. He employs 14-15 Thai staff and has never been subject to demands for "extra" payment(s).

He was subject to a recent "inspection" -- a joint operation between the police, immigration and the labour department. He was instantly able to satisfy the officials queries. The officials thanked him and moved on. Absolutely no demands for any tea money.

[Italian guy]

Install CCTV (with sound) in your office. If they come again ask them to either arrest you or leave immediately. If they don't do either, call the local police.

What if they do arrest him?

[Dork]

Install CCTV (with sound) in your office. If they come again ask them to either arrest you or leave immediately. If they don't do either, call the local police.

What if they do arrest him?

Assuming the situation is as the op described, there is no crime to be arrested for. It is better to call their bluff than show vulnerability to intimidation and false threats of imprisonment.