Reciprocity is badly needed.

[ABCer]

This is a Thai Expat Forum. This particular section of it deals with issues very close to Expats hearts.

The world we all live in is round, separated in different countries some like Thailand, some not like Thailand.

Many issues concerning visas, residency, work permits, immigration, property acquisition and business activities usually are decided on diplomatic level by each country involved.

It is more often than not that the concept of reciprocity is involved.

Many Thais travel around the world. Many of them settle in various parts of it. Some are working. Some are getting married. Some are engaged in business activities. Some get naturalized, obtain permanent residency and so on.

I think a reciprocity concept is not being applied to Thai nationals in many countries we come from.

Here is just a thought:

If Thai emigrants in many countries were treated reciprocally the same way we, Expats are treated here would the situation here change?

Any ideas?

[Jay Sata]

You'll never change the Thai mentality towards foreigners or farangs as we are known for the simple reason the country is very inward looking.

I put this down to the fact that Thailand is the only country in Southeast Asia never colonised by a European power.

Edited June 15, 2013 by lopburi3
correct font

[LuckyLew]

The current Thailand visa and immigration is a cash cw for the Gov't

Why would they change it?

Unless no one comes ... they will not change it

[OJAS]

If we expats here were treated reciprocally the same way Thai emigrants in many countries are treated, we would be treated a whole lot worse than we actually are, believe you me!

The ritual I have to go through each year for a retirement extension here in Thailand pales into insignificance when compared to the tediously bureaucratic performance we had to go through in order to obtain the necessary visa for my Thai wife to accompany me on a 10-day trip back to the UK 4 years ago!!

[asiaexpat]

When I feel overburdened I just re-watch "border security australia's front line" and the like on Youtube. It reminds me that Thailand immigration rules may not be such a burden after all.

[ABCer]

JS, you may be right or wrong about the reasons, but no country can afford being ostracized in this big wide world. Besides, think of all the Thai migrants losing their money, properties, income around the world and coming to roost back home...

I think the uproar would be heard. Besides, you are talking about Thai mentality, I am talking about Thai Gov't.

LL, it is not even a drop in the ocean. I don't believe our summarized fees would even register on the scales of Thai Budget.

OJAS, sorry, no comment, as I am not British. All I know is that my Australian passport opens any door in Europe, Americas and Asia. Perhaps in your case UK were afraid that once in she will decide to stay and circumvent that very ' tediously bureaucratic' process of theirs (?). I am not arguing with you, but you must admit that once allowed into UK she would be permitted to work, open business, come and go freely, buy property, etc.

[marstons]

If we expats here were treated reciprocally the same way Thai emigrants in many countries are treated, we would be treated a whole lot worse than we actually are, believe you me!

The ritual I have to go through each year for a retirement extension here in Thailand pales into insignificance when compared to the tediously bureaucratic performance we had to go through in order to obtain the necessary visa for my Thai wife to accompany me on a 10-day trip back to the UK 4 years ago!!

would love to see the Thais in UK pop out the country every 3 months just to get a feel for what a dumb idea it is, personally i found getting GF visa a breeze to go to the UK.

[NamKangMan]

You'll never change the Thai mentality towards foreigners or farangs as we are known for the simple reason the country is very inward looking.

I put this down to the fact that Thailand is the only country in Southeast Asia never colonised by a European power.

You are here. I am here. Hundreds of thousands of other farang are here.

Sounds colonised to me.

Edited June 15, 2013 by NamKangMan

[marstons]

JS, you may be right or wrong about the reasons, but no country can afford being ostracized in this big wide world. Besides, think of all the Thai migrants losing their money, properties, income around the world and coming to roost back home...

I think the uproar would be heard. Besides, you are talking about Thai mentality, I am talking about Thai Gov't.

LL, it is not even a drop in the ocean. I don't believe our summarized fees would even register on the scales of Thai Budget.

OJAS, sorry, no comment, as I am not British. All I know is that my Australian passport opens any door in Europe, Americas and Asia. Perhaps in your case UK were afraid that once in she will decide to stay and circumvent that very ' tediously bureaucratic' process of theirs (?). I am not arguing with you, but you must admit that once allowed into UK she would be permitted to work, open business, come and go freely, buy property, etc.

Tourist visa no work permitted or access to public funds surprisingly enough, for that you have to get in the illegal way then the worlds your oyster.

[Jay Sata]

You'll never change the Thai mentality towards foreigners or farangs as we are known for the simple reason the country is very inward looking.

I put this down to the fact that Thailand is the only country in Southeast Asia never colonised by a European power.

You are here. I am here. Hundreds of thousands of other farang are here.

Sounds colonised to me.

Every farang in Thailand is on living in the country subject to controls and reporting with zero rights. Thai spouses in Europe have the same rights as the indigenous population.

[Tomtomtom69]

When it comes to visa fees, China reciprocates it's fee for visa applicants from US citizens, which is the equivalent in local currency of US$131, the same fee Chinese citizens pay for a US visa.

Thailand allows US and many other nationals into it's country for a period of 30 days when traveling by air, 15 overland. Most of those same countries require visas from Thais, in some cases even just to transit airside. Only most ASEAN countries and a few others including Peru, Brazil, Argentina and South Korea I believe, reciprocate by allowing 90 day stays in each other's territories for citizens of both sides.

While I do advocate reciprocity, it's clear that while the Thai authorities have made it easy for nationals of most rich countries to travel here, for Thais going to those countries it's very hard just to get a visa. This might explain why there are always far fewer Thai nationals than Australians on flights heading to/from Thailand and Australia, far fewer Thais heading to Europe compared to Europeans etc.

[rijb]

Your "reciprocity concept" sounds more like a 'retribution concept'.

[samran]

Sure, why not?

When you want to come for a holiday to Thailand you can queue in the London rain for hours with all your financial evidence just do you can get a 30 day visa to come and visit. The immigration official at the embassy can then decide that you have shown no good reason why you want to return to the U.K, EU or US and deny your tourist visa flat out after you've coughed up $200 for he application.

Your visa runs can also be reciprocal. Meaning, more than one shows you are not a real tourist but a defacto resident, and you are turned around in no mans land in csmbodia and left to rot,

Any long term residency visa would require a 'life in the kingdom of Thailand' test where you'll have to actually sit a test, in Thai, on history and culture. And you'll also have to pass genuine Thai language equivalency tests befor the visa can be issued.

Instead of $27,000 in the bank for a retirement visa, we can use the Australian formula where you need $750,000, or we could go the UK route where retirement visa's can be done away with totally.

Yep, I like this reciprocal idea. When can we start?

[culicine]

You'll never change the Thai mentality towards foreigners or farangs as we are known for the simple reason the country is very inward looking.

I put this down to the fact that Thailand is the only country in Southeast Asia never colonised by a European power.

You are here. I am here. Hundreds of thousands of other farang are here.

Sounds colonised to me.

The Chinese colonised Thailand and they didn't even realise it. Or does it make a difference that the Chinese look asian and we don't?

[samran]

You'll never change the Thai mentality towards foreigners or farangs as we are known for the simple reason the country is very inward looking. I put this down to the fact that Thailand is the only country in Southeast Asia never colonised by a European power.

You are here. I am here. Hundreds of thousands of other farang are here. Sounds colonised to me. :)

The Chinese colonised Thailand and they didn't even realise it. Or does it make a difference that the Chinese look asian and we don't?

Yes, cause all Asians look the same.....

[Rooo]

Not visa specific topic, moved to general.

[Kitsune]

true

but in all fairness the buying power being still farang dominant, they need to protect their country otherwise it would be all bought up by chinese

Edited June 15, 2013 by Kitsune

[boosta]

Such policies are set by each country according to what they want, as is their right. Nothing to do with reciprocity.

The US and UK love selling off their most valuable real estate to foreigners and realise this doesn't threaten their national sovereignty.

Many countries are trying to attract permanent immigrants with valuable skills and knowledge because they know this will help their entrepreneurial spirit and creativity.

Thailand wants to keep Thailand for "Thais" as if it were an ethnicity not just an arbitrary nationality.

Their loss.

[metisdead]

Off topic trolling posts and replies have been removed.

[Kitsune]

Such policies are set by each country according to what they want, as is their right. Nothing to do with reciprocity.

The US and UK love selling off their most valuable real estate to foreigners and realise this doesn't threaten their national sovereignty.

Many countries are trying to attract permanent immigrants with valuable skills and knowledge because they know this will help their entrepreneurial spirit and creativity.

Thailand wants to keep Thailand for "Thais" as if it were an ethnicity not just an arbitrary nationality.

Their loss.

Their loss?

Keeping their land theirs?

[OJAS]

JS, you may be right or wrong about the reasons, but no country can afford being ostracized in this big wide world. Besides, think of all the Thai migrants losing their money, properties, income around the world and coming to roost back home...

I think the uproar would be heard. Besides, you are talking about Thai mentality, I am talking about Thai Gov't.

LL, it is not even a drop in the ocean. I don't believe our summarized fees would even register on the scales of Thai Budget.

OJAS, sorry, no comment, as I am not British. All I know is that my Australian passport opens any door in Europe, Americas and Asia. Perhaps in your case UK were afraid that once in she will decide to stay and circumvent that very ' tediously bureaucratic' process of theirs (?). I am not arguing with you, but you must admit that once allowed into UK she would be permitted to work, open business, come and go freely, buy property, etc.

Tourist visa no work permitted or access to public funds surprisingly enough, for that you have to get in the illegal way then the worlds your oyster.

Absolutely. What galls me is that, whereas I could (before moving out here) make a 10-day visit to Thailand without the need for any visa (I was merely stamped in for 30 days on arrival at BKK), my wife had to go through the rigmarole of applying for a 6-month visitor's visa for her 10-day visit to the UK - including having to provide completely meaningless and irrelevant information in her application form as to the full names, birth dates and birth places of her parents and children, even though none of them were accompanying us!!

If the British Immigration Gestapo are so paranoid about the possibility of Thais overstaying in the UK as to, in their eyes, justify such draconian measures, then why do their Thai counterparts appear rather less paranoid about the countless hordes of Westeners who doubtless enter the Kingdom under 30-day stamps and then disappear under the radar to overstay indefinitely - with only a relatively mild slap over the wrists in the form of a 20,000 THB fine if they do get caught?

If we expats here were treated reciprocally the same way Thai emigrants in many countries are treated, we would be treated a whole lot worse than we actually are, believe you me!

The ritual I have to go through each year for a retirement extension here in Thailand pales into insignificance when compared to the tediously bureaucratic performance we had to go through in order to obtain the necessary visa for my Thai wife to accompany me on a 10-day trip back to the UK 4 years ago!!

would love to see the Thais in UK pop out the country every 3 months just to get a feel for what a dumb idea it is, personally i found getting GF visa a breeze to go to the UK.

What is your secret formula for success in obtaining UK visas for your GF then?

[boosta]

What is your secret formula for success in obtaining UK visas for your GF then?

-

Rich or high-powered professional girlfriend with no economic incentive to stay in the UK.

-

-

why do their Thai counterparts appear rather less paranoid about the countless hordes of Westeners who doubtless enter the Kingdom under 30-day stamps and then disappear under the radar to overstay indefinitely - with only a relatively mild slap over the wrists in the form of a 20,000 THB fine if they do get caught?

-

Because the Kingdom doesn't have social services obligated to spend money on the foreigners as the UK does.

[Maestro]

... If Thai emigrants in many countries were treated reciprocally the same way we, Expats are treated here would the situation here change? 

No, the situation would not change in Thailand. It would change in the countries to which the Thais emigrate.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[Potosi]

I'm all for reciprocity, and as soon as the Thais learn to drive a vehicle in a way that betrays the presence of a brain, and quit shooting people for trifles, and can learn the language of the host country enabling them to have a meaningful conversation, and have an education good for other careers than prostitution, massage, and cleaning, let's introduce it. The list actually goes on and on, just picked a few items. Until then, I'm afraid Thais continue to feature prominently on the list of undesirable immigrants to the West. Sorry if I'm too blunt, while you are trying hard to import your sweethart of the moment.

[Tchooptip]

If Thai emigrants in many countries were treated reciprocally the same way we, Expats are treated here would the situation here change?

Any ideas?

Yes it would be a hundred times worst

[dieter1]

http://www.un.or.th/documents/tmr-2011.pdf

140,581 Thai nationals residing in Germany

40,000 Thai nationals residing in the UK

in total:1,006,051 Thai persons were residing abroad

......

28,500 foreigner with old age/retirement (in total !!!) visa living in Thailand

11,400 spouses of Thai Nationals permanently residing in Thailand

total number of foreigners residing in Thailand is about 3 Mill (3000,000)

about 1 Mill. of them are from Myanmar !

estimated 1.3 million low-skilled migrants from Cambodia, the Lao People’s Democratic Republic andMyanmar

[StreetCowboy]

I'm all for reciprocity, and as soon as the Thais learn to drive a vehicle in a way that betrays the presence of a brain, and quit shooting people for trifles, and can learn the language of the host country enabling them to have a meaningful conversation, and have an education good for other careers than prostitution, massage, and cleaning, let's introduce it. The list actually goes on and on, just picked a few items. Until then, I'm afraid Thais continue to feature prominently on the list of undesirable immigrants to the West. Sorry if I'm too blunt, while you are trying hard to import your sweethart of the moment.

The Thais I know in my current country are professional engineers. One is director of engineering, and the other I interviewed for a job back in Thailand. Perhaps it's just the circles you keep.

SC

[Lancelot]

If we expats here were treated reciprocally the same way Thai emigrants in many countries are treated, we would be treated a whole lot worse than we actually are, believe you me!

The ritual I have to go through each year for a retirement extension here in Thailand pales into insignificance when compared to the tediously bureaucratic performance we had to go through in order to obtain the necessary visa for my Thai wife to accompany me on a 10-day trip back to the UK 4 years ago!!

Agreed not easy for Thais to visit the west. However, easier for Thais to get permanent residence status in the west than for westerners to get the same status here in Thailand...

[Time Traveller]

When I feel overburdened I just re-watch "border security australia's front line" and the like on Youtube. It reminds me that Thailand immigration rules may not be such a burden after all.

So a few "TV worthy" examples of immigration catching up law breakers is the basis to form your opinion that the western countries have draconian immigration policies, is it? Fortunately for the millions of immigrants and tourists to those countries they know that the truth is very different, and the immigration policies for the most part quite are reasonable. Perhaps the few dozen people who obtained Thai citizenship or PR last year will agree with you that Thai immigration policy is so wonderful.

[benalibina]

For thais to visit western countries is easy. To live with their partner is a different matter on some occasions. Language tests, income/contract partner etc.

The problem in thailand for a not working but married foreigner ( with kids maybe)is that he/she only is of benefit for the thai economy and does not be recognized like that by the lawmakers. Westerners are regarding visahassles treated same as birmese, cambodians etc. Its a big business for the immigration dept and touroperators because of that. Westerners do not want to benefit from the thai social securitysystem. In the west the governments fear that the immigrants come there for a better financial life, social securitybenefits. Most of the, retired, westerners ,go to, stay in thailand for a happier life.