How do you live with permanent depression (obesity)

[Tolley]

JT you have a serious problem with yourself and you want the world to change to fit your weight so you can do what you want. In reality gym rats are much healthier as obese and even fat people. Reason being they exercise and that brings so many health benefits. You are constantly looking for reasons why being fat is good.. it is not.

I consider that a pop psychological personal attack that has nothing to do with me, and more about you and your justification for your personal choice of exercise obsession. I have said many times exercise is beneficial and I do it myself, in moderation. I am not saying fat is good though of course it is VERY GOOD in some survival situations. I am saying not everyone is going to be Men's Fitness model ideal (more like a TINY percentage of people will) nor should everyone prioritize an unrealistic "perfect" body image as a top priority in their life. I think PUSHING unrealistic body image ideals (often related to mass media) is socially damaging and I make no excuses for vehemently opposing such media brainwashing. If you choose this lean body image obsession, one by the way I DO NOT SHARE for myself or find attractive in other men, that is your choice. What is the point of PUSHING it as the goal for ALL? Does it make you feel like you need constant payback for all the hours and hard work you put in to push your lean agenda on others? What I get from you is that you think someone who decides OK, I am OK being a bit chubby, not obese and not fat enough to have health risk from it, that they should feel for the rest of their lives they are not GOOD ENOUGH, some kind of failure, that if they were a moral person they would dedicate their lives to looking like a Men's Fitness model and they need to constantly blame themselves for being weaklings that they just don't CARE to do that. I am saying many of those chubby dudes are JUST AS GOOD as you, JUST AS HEALTHY as you if not healthier, and quite possibly quite a but cuter. Being a gym rat does not make people superior. It makes them a gym rat.

For the obese, yes, I do think it should be a high priority to not be obese, and of course, that is not easy, and statistically the odds aren't good for the long term for success, but that doesn't mean they shouldn't be searching for lifetime solutions to the problem, which is indeed a major HEALTH risk.

The real issue here is are you carrying excess visceral fat?

If you are then you are at increased risk of developing a range of diseases.

A gym rat as you call it might want to have a body fat level of say 10 percent or lower but really anything up to 20 percent is still okay.

But even at 20 percent body fat you will still look quite lean I reckon. I am around 18-19 percent fat and 81 ks 178cm and most people say i look pretty lean.

[robblok]

folk will dream up all sorts of excuses for not exercising... the bottom line is they don`t have the required self discipline to get up off their fat butts and do something about it... jeese he`ll be telling us smoking cigarettes is good for you next....

I exercise. I'm losing weight. I won't defend smoking. The info I have presented about the mildly overweight is scientifically valid. I can't help it if that bothers you. In my view, in weight matters -- there is the health aspect and there is also the cosmetic aspect. Of course to some degree most of us are indeed interested in BOTH to some degree, but the health aspect is more important.

I have seen studies where muscle helps recovery too as the protein from the muscle is used for recovery.

[Jingthing]

I have a problem with lean people who think they are superior just for being lean, yes. As far as jealousy, I understand why people would think that, but I've never had that ideal but I realize probably the majority culture does.

[AnotherOneAmerican]

I exercise. I'm losing weight. I won't defend smoking. The info I have presented about the mildly overweight is scientifically valid. I can't help it if that bothers you. In my view, in weight matters -- there is the health aspect and there is also the cosmetic aspect. Of course to some degree most of us are indeed interested in BOTH to some degree, but the health aspect is more important.

How much do you weigh?

I'm thinking 100+Kg.

Edited June 27, 2013 by AnotherOneAmerican

[Jingthing]

I exercise. I'm losing weight. I won't defend smoking. The info I have presented about the mildly overweight is scientifically valid. I can't help it if that bothers you. In my view, in weight matters -- there is the health aspect and there is also the cosmetic aspect. Of course to some degree most of us are indeed interested in BOTH to some degree, but the health aspect is more important.

How much do you weigh?

I'm thinking 100+Kg.

I am mildly Level 1 obese. I wasn't defending any kind of obesity as healthy or desirable. My first goal in my current attempt to make lifetime health changes is to reach just overweight. If I make that, I will want to lose more weight, but whether "ideal" weight is realistic for me I'm not yet sure, and don't feel I need to be sure yet. I am clear if the best I can do is mildly overweight, I will be happy with that. The goal of gym rat lean is something I simply don't have, even if I could get that with no effort. I don't believe in diets and especially not crash diets. You need to look deeper, especially at the foods you eat and what you can eat with pleasure and health FOR LIFE and of course exercise helps quite a bit for both losing weight and health in general.

In the context of the OP assuming he deals with the severe depression somehow is that he clearly knows how to lose weight, he has done that before, but does he know how to make lifetime health promoting changes that are going to lessen the chance of another YOYO (which is actually unhealthier than just not losing weight at all)? That's why I say -- look deeper this time. Many obese people are probably fated to many YOYOs but hopefully more people can find the answer to stop the yoyo before it happens too many times.

Edited June 27, 2013 by Jingthing

[kristophon]

I exercise. I'm losing weight. I won't defend smoking. The info I have presented about the mildly overweight is scientifically valid. I can't help it if that bothers you. In my view, in weight matters -- there is the health aspect and there is also the cosmetic aspect. Of course to some degree most of us are indeed interested in BOTH to some degree, but the health aspect is more important.

How much do you weigh?

I'm thinking 100+Kg.

I am mildly Level 1 obese. I wasn't defending any kind of obesity as healthy or desirable. My first goal in my current attempt to make lifetime health changes is to reach just overweight. If I make that, I will want to lose more weight, but whether "ideal" weight is realistic for me I'm not yet sure, and don't feel I need to be sure yet. I am clear if the best I can do is mildly overweight, I will be happy with that. The goal of gym rat lean is something I simply don't have, even if I could get that with no effort. I don't believe in diets and especially not crash diets. You need to look deeper, especially at the foods you eat and what you can eat with pleasure and health FOR LIFE and of course exercise helps quite a bit for both losing weight and health in general.

In the context of the OP assuming he deals with the severe depression somehow is that he clearly knows how to lose weight, he has done that before, but does he know how to make lifetime health promoting changes that are going to lessen the chance of another YOYO (which is actually unhealthier than just not losing weight at all)? That's why I say -- look deeper this time. Many obese people are probably fated to many YOYOs but hopefully more people can find the answer to stop the yoyo before it happens too many times.

one word springs to mind... 'denial'... anyway... good luck with the NON diet method of loosing weight...

[robblok]

I exercise. I'm losing weight. I won't defend smoking. The info I have presented about the mildly overweight is scientifically valid. I can't help it if that bothers you. In my view, in weight matters -- there is the health aspect and there is also the cosmetic aspect. Of course to some degree most of us are indeed interested in BOTH to some degree, but the health aspect is more important.

How much do you weigh?

I'm thinking 100+Kg.

I am mildly Level 1 obese. I wasn't defending any kind of obesity as healthy or desirable. My first goal in my current attempt to make lifetime health changes is to reach just overweight. If I make that, I will want to lose more weight, but whether "ideal" weight is realistic for me I'm not yet sure, and don't feel I need to be sure yet. I am clear if the best I can do is mildly overweight, I will be happy with that. The goal of gym rat lean is something I simply don't have, even if I could get that with no effort. I don't believe in diets and especially not crash diets. You need to look deeper, especially at the foods you eat and what you can eat with pleasure and health FOR LIFE and of course exercise helps quite a bit for both losing weight and health in general.

In the context of the OP assuming he deals with the severe depression somehow is that he clearly knows how to lose weight, he has done that before, but does he know how to make lifetime health promoting changes that are going to lessen the chance of another YOYO (which is actually unhealthier than just not losing weight at all)? That's why I say -- look deeper this time. Many obese people are probably fated to many YOYOs but hopefully more people can find the answer to stop the yoyo before it happens too many times.

Its good to set goals and if overweight is healthy enough for you (it can be) why go on. You seem to think I want everyone to be lean or a gym rat, you seem to misread what I always say about exercise. That people should do exercise that they like (meaning no need to be a gym rat) and keep it up as it is important.

I never project my goals on someone else, that is their business and i hardly give fat people a second thought when I see them. Only the real extreme cases that have problems walking and such. That is the only time I wonder how they got that far.

*EDIT*

But what goes for me to loose the extra weight goes for you and everyone that wants to loose weight, eat less and / or exercise more. That is why what i say and the advice i give is the same for everyone.

With some adaptation of course as some things are not for the unfit people (running if you are heavy is not smart for instance)

Edited June 27, 2013 by robblok

[Jingthing]

one word springs to mind... 'denial'... anyway... good luck with the NON diet method of loosing weight...

Most anyone who studies obesity knows that diets don't work in long term for most obese people. Yes they work for LOSING WEIGHT but they do not work for solving chronic obesity. The ones who find success yes CHANGE THEIR DIETS for LIFE, but do not go on diets. That's a big difference.

For example I have discovered I'm wild about BROCCOLI.

It's not a diet food for me. It's a healthy food that's also a great pleasure for me.

I know I can eat if for life, that eating it promotes weight loss, disease prevention, and health.

There are many foods like that but each person has different healthy foods that are great for them that they also find delicious.

Sure it would help to see a good nutritionist. I would if I knew one in Thailand. But short of that you can do your own research and personal experimentation. It's a journey.

Edited June 27, 2013 by Jingthing

[Jingthing]

Its good to set goals and if overweight is healthy enough for you (it can be) why go on.

...

Honestly I want to go lower than mildly overweight but if I continue on my program of healthy diet and moderate exercise and its just not happening for months and years, I'll just continue and accept it and consider NOT GETTING OBESE AGAIN a huge personal success.

Edited June 27, 2013 by Jingthing

[robblok]

one word springs to mind... 'denial'... anyway... good luck with the NON diet method of loosing weight...

Most anyone who studies obesity knows that diets don't work in long term for most obese people. Yes they work for LOSING WEIGHT but they do not work for solving chronic obesity. The ones who find success yes CHANGE THEIR DIETS for LIFE, but do not go on diets. That's a big difference.

JT, I always find this so confusing, maybe because im not a native english speaker. When I talk about my diet, i mean what i eat not diet as in those fad diets or low caloric diets.

I figure that everyone who is just a little smart would know that diets don't work long term if you don't make lifestyle changes after that. You (not you but in general) got fat because of what you do in the past if you just loose the weight on a diet and go on with your old habits its only logical that it comes back.

But a fad diet could help to kick-start the weight loss, I really hated my weight and did not like to be on pictures as i hated that round face and chubby body. A fast kick-start for motivation and then a slow sustainable weight loss would help a lot.

Its not as much that fad diets don't work, because they do work its that returning to old habits is the problem.

[robblok]

Its good to set goals and if overweight is healthy enough for you (it can be) why go on.

...

Honestly I want to go lower than mildly overweight but if I continue on my program of healthy diet and moderate exercise and it just not happening for months and years, I'll just continue and accept it and consider NOT GETTING OBESE AGAIN a huge personal success.

As long as its working just go on, the moment you think going down any more is no longer worth it just maintain it. And yes just keeping it off is of course a success because it means you made lifestyle changes.

[MrRealDeal]

The poster with the most posts on a forum is Obese , I can't possibly think of a solution to that.

[Jingthing]

The poster with the most posts on a forum is Obese , I can't possibly think of a solution to that.

Snarky alert!

[poanoi]

But I feel I have a right to voice my opinion that body perfection obsession for both men and women can be quite psychologically damaging to a lot of people. Too many people are seeking ridiculous body image goals and that in my view is a serious social ill.

Whats wrong with wanting Manfred-arms ?

[MrRealDeal]

The poster with the most posts on a forum is Obese , I can't possibly think of a solution to that.

Snarky alert!

I'm sure it comes as no surprise that when it comes to snarky people being treated in a snarky manner , I can't possibly think of a solution to that either.

[belg]

one person posting 1000 calories diet?

don't...

when you do nothing... you burn about 50 calories per minute x 24 hours = 1200 calories minimum you should it

go for a few walks a day or light fitness

burn off your excess fat with exercise, is the only way to keep it off

and stay off those crackers, chips, fries, pizza, margerine, butter , popcorn, coockies, chocolate, etc..........

[robblok]

one person posting 1000 calories diet?

don't...

when you do nothing... you burn about 50 calories per minute x 24 hours = 1200 calories minimum you should it

go for a few walks a day or light fitness

burn off your excess fat with exercise, is the only way to keep it off

and stay off those crackers, chips, fries, pizza, margerine, butter , popcorn, coockies, chocolate, etc..........

He posted it as an example because people said that eating less would not help. There are still some people who don't believe in eating less calories.

Anyway I could never survive on those kinds of diets.

[Jingthing]

To follow up on the green coffee extract suggestion, I am curious to know if it is a legal supplement in Thailand. I certainly have never seen it for sale here and generally the Thai authorities need to approve of supplements before they can be sold here.

A poster suggested just use your own green coffee.

An interesting suggestion but how would you know much to take?

The extract supplements are in capsule form in a standardized dose, and you're supposed to take before every meal.

So if using the actual coffee I guess you could copy that by drinking coffee before every meal.

If you're out and about, what are you supposed to do, carry a mug of coffee with you?

The extracts are made from DECAF coffee.

I think it would be hard enough to source green coffee beans here, but DECAF ones, I think not practical to find.

So you might be making yourself more addicted to caffeine by trying the do it yourself program.

As some know, I am a fan of Dr. Oz and his suggestions so it wouldn't surprise me at all if the green coffee is an effective tool for some people, just as I think garcinia is an effective tool for some people.

But in Thailand, I don't think the green coffee is really practical yet.

Edited July 1, 2013 by Jingthing

[Jingthing]

OK here is a way to make your own green coffee extract.

I might just try this if I can source some green coffee beans.

Green coffee is a fat burner and some people suggest combining it with garcinia which is an appetite suppressant (for some).

As I already drink coffee and green tea, I guess I can handle some green coffee maybe replacing some of my coffee.

http://recipe-coffee.blogspot.com/2012/10/how-to-make-green-coffee-bean-extract.html

[Kalbo]

From my experience, along with everyone else I know, the very WORST approach is trying to starve yourself.

When you sharply cut down on food intake, your body has sensors that detect that right away. The sensors

send signals to your body saying, "Hey, the bastards are trying to starve you." Your body immediately turns

on its natural survival mechanisms.

The survival mechanisms immediately slow your metabolism way down in order to extract as much fuel as it

possibly can from the available supply. Also, your body stops burning fat. Stored fat is a survival mechanism

for emergencies.

When you try to starve yourself slim, you will always lose (unless you are locked in a cage) because your body

will fight you to the bitter end to ensure "survival." The body's natural defenses are much much stronger than

a person's willpower alone.

Don't starve ever! Always eat smart.

Not even close to the truth. Even during complete starvation, it's takes a a lot longer than 'immediately' before the body starts slowing down metabolism etc etc. This is a myth that has been perpetuated by lazy people and slack-<deleted>. I do, however, agree with the 'Don't starve, eat smart' bit.

[robblok]

From my experience, along with everyone else I know, the very WORST approach is trying to starve yourself.

When you sharply cut down on food intake, your body has sensors that detect that right away. The sensors

send signals to your body saying, "Hey, the bastards are trying to starve you." Your body immediately turns

on its natural survival mechanisms.

The survival mechanisms immediately slow your metabolism way down in order to extract as much fuel as it

possibly can from the available supply. Also, your body stops burning fat. Stored fat is a survival mechanism

for emergencies.

When you try to starve yourself slim, you will always lose (unless you are locked in a cage) because your body

will fight you to the bitter end to ensure "survival." The body's natural defenses are much much stronger than

a person's willpower alone.

Don't starve ever! Always eat smart.

Not even close to the truth. Even during complete starvation, it's takes a a lot longer than 'immediately' before the body starts slowing down metabolism etc etc. This is a myth that has been perpetuated by lazy people and slack-<deleted>. I do, however, agree with the 'Don't starve, eat smart' bit.

That is true, there have been some pretty brutal experiments with army personal about this. (civilians aren't allowed to do such hard tests). It took real real long before the starvation reflex started and before they were loosing muscle. I can look it up for the unbelievers. But as others say its better to eat smart as it is hard to fight hunger pangs all the time.

[Benaud]

I lost almost 70kgs 3 years ago and have kept it off. Your weight will always vary if you are prone to weight gain. One of my friends gave me some advice, he said to weigh myself frequently and set myself an alarm weight. So, in my case, if I ever get above 95kgs again it is time to hit the gym and the diet hard and get back down to 85ish.

I never really stop excercising now and I always try to eat reasonably healthy, just avoiding useless carbs like white rice / bread and pasta is enough. Even still, when I am not focused on the diet I tend to drink more and eat things a shouldn't. It's a constant battle that will never be over but you can never give up, being and looking healthy just feels too good!

[robblok]

I lost almost 70kgs 3 years ago and have kept it off. Your weight will always vary if you are prone to weight gain. One of my friends gave me some advice, he said to weigh myself frequently and set myself an alarm weight. So, in my case, if I ever get above 95kgs again it is time to hit the gym and the diet hard and get back down to 85ish.

I never really stop excercising now and I always try to eat reasonably healthy, just avoiding useless carbs like white rice / bread and pasta is enough. Even still, when I am not focused on the diet I tend to drink more and eat things a shouldn't. It's a constant battle that will never be over but you can never give up, being and looking healthy just feels too good!

To be honest I think its like this for most people who want to keep weight off. I exercise a lot and keep track of my food if i would not i would get heavier too. I don't know a single person who is 100% lean who does not watch his or her food (if over 30).

[Kalbo]

I lost almost 70kgs 3 years ago and have kept it off. Your weight will always vary if you are prone to weight gain. One of my friends gave me some advice, he said to weigh myself frequently and set myself an alarm weight. So, in my case, if I ever get above 95kgs again it is time to hit the gym and the diet hard and get back down to 85ish.

I never really stop excercising now and I always try to eat reasonably healthy, just avoiding useless carbs like white rice / bread and pasta is enough. Even still, when I am not focused on the diet I tend to drink more and eat things a shouldn't. It's a constant battle that will never be over but you can never give up, being and looking healthy just feels too good!

Well done and I raise my hat to you. Just curious, but how old are you and how long did it take to lose the weight ?

[Kalbo]

I lost almost 70kgs 3 years ago and have kept it off. Your weight will always vary if you are prone to weight gain. One of my friends gave me some advice, he said to weigh myself frequently and set myself an alarm weight. So, in my case, if I ever get above 95kgs again it is time to hit the gym and the diet hard and get back down to 85ish.

I never really stop excercising now and I always try to eat reasonably healthy, just avoiding useless carbs like white rice / bread and pasta is enough. Even still, when I am not focused on the diet I tend to drink more and eat things a shouldn't. It's a constant battle that will never be over but you can never give up, being and looking healthy just feels too good!

To be honest I think its like this for most people who want to keep weight off. I exercise a lot and keep track of my food if i would not i would get heavier too. I don't know a single person who is 100% lean who does not watch his or her food (if over 30).

Rob, it's the same for the people who are only 80% or so lean too, mate.

[robblok]

I lost almost 70kgs 3 years ago and have kept it off. Your weight will always vary if you are prone to weight gain. One of my friends gave me some advice, he said to weigh myself frequently and set myself an alarm weight. So, in my case, if I ever get above 95kgs again it is time to hit the gym and the diet hard and get back down to 85ish.

I never really stop excercising now and I always try to eat reasonably healthy, just avoiding useless carbs like white rice / bread and pasta is enough. Even still, when I am not focused on the diet I tend to drink more and eat things a shouldn't. It's a constant battle that will never be over but you can never give up, being and looking healthy just feels too good!

To be honest I think its like this for most people who want to keep weight off. I exercise a lot and keep track of my food if i would not i would get heavier too. I don't know a single person who is 100% lean who does not watch his or her food (if over 30).

Rob, it's the same for the people who are only 80% or so lean too, mate.

What I am saying is that for most people it takes an effort to stay on a weight, always something has to be done.

Watching your food or exercising, i think there are not many that can eat all they want and still stay lean. Many people seem to think that thin people don't put in an effort. But from experience that is not true, they do mind their food too and they do exercise. Usually less of course as those who want to loose weight as that is harder. But I think for all its still not easy to stay on a weight.

Just to counter the general mood here that it is effortless.

[moe666]

Check you temp each morning before getting out of bed, get an old fashioned thermometer shake it down the night before, place under your arm for 10 min. record temp for 10 days, is it hard to get up in the morning, are you tired in the afternoon. You could have a low functioning thyroid. Have a thyroid test preformed but be careful of the reading the range on thyroid is huge and you could be in a low normal range but this would be too low for best health. Do a bit of research o0n this as there is plenty of info on it, low thyroid can make it very difficult to lose weight.

[robblok]

Check you temp each morning before getting out of bed, get an old fashioned thermometer shake it down the night before, place under your arm for 10 min. record temp for 10 days, is it hard to get up in the morning, are you tired in the afternoon. You could have a low functioning thyroid. Have a thyroid test preformed but be careful of the reading the range on thyroid is huge and you could be in a low normal range but this would be too low for best health. Do a bit of research o0n this as there is plenty of info on it, low thyroid can make it very difficult to lose weight.

That is true, have had low thyroid for ages but even with taking the medicine its still not that much easier. But the medicine did magic for my energy levels at night.

[Tolley]

Check you temp each morning before getting out of bed, get an old fashioned thermometer shake it down the night before, place under your arm for 10 min. record temp for 10 days, is it hard to get up in the morning, are you tired in the afternoon. You could have a low functioning thyroid. Have a thyroid test preformed but be careful of the reading the range on thyroid is huge and you could be in a low normal range but this would be too low for best health. Do a bit of research o0n this as there is plenty of info on it, low thyroid can make it very difficult to lose weight.

That is true, have had low thyroid for ages but even with taking the medicine its still not that much easier. But the medicine did magic for my energy levels at night.

My score for thyroid test was .81 which is in the low range and maybe not optimal but maybe a factor that contributes to not putting on weight as easily as someone with a higher score?

[robblok]

Check you temp each morning before getting out of bed, get an old fashioned thermometer shake it down the night before, place under your arm for 10 min. record temp for 10 days, is it hard to get up in the morning, are you tired in the afternoon. You could have a low functioning thyroid. Have a thyroid test preformed but be careful of the reading the range on thyroid is huge and you could be in a low normal range but this would be too low for best health. Do a bit of research o0n this as there is plenty of info on it, low thyroid can make it very difficult to lose weight.

That is true, have had low thyroid for ages but even with taking the medicine its still not that much easier. But the medicine did magic for my energy levels at night.

My score for thyroid test was .81 which is in the low range and maybe not optimal but maybe a factor that contributes to not putting on weight as easily as someone with a higher score?

Actually I don't know what thyroid you tested as there are levels you can test. But the thing is low thyroid makes you put on weight easy, high keeps it off easy.

But now that I am Thyroid medicine 100mcg levotoxine i only feel more energetic but weight wise I fail to see a change.

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