Ecuador 'analysing' Snowden asylum request: FM

[jamhar]

If he's going anywhere, let him go to So or Central America. Minus Cuba.

He can always come home to the US. We'll have a nice welcome ready for him.

[Publicus]

Top Secret!

How many countries is it now, 101?

WIKILEAKS: Edward Snowden Has Requested Asylum In 6 More Countries, But We're Not Saying Which Ones

WikiLeaks, which has claimed to be representing Snowden since his leaks revealed information about the NSA's surveillance programs, said it wouldn't disclose the six countries out of fear of "U.S. interference."

On Monday, the organization said it had submitted applications to 19 countries on Snowden's behalf, which came in addition to outstanding requests in Ecuador and Iceland.

Thus far, it looks like the most likely potential destinations for Snowden would come in Venezuela and Bolivia. On Friday, another possible country — Iceland — voted to table a proposal to grant Snowden citizenship in the country, according to Reuters. Iceland's parliament voted not to debate the measure before its summer recess.

Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/wikileaks-edward-snowden-asylum-countries-iceland-china-2013-7#ixzz2YFXdx07G

So what's the issue? Why six more countries? More left wing hot air?

And Now Venezuela Has Offered Asylum To Edward Snowden

On the heels of Nicaragua's offer of asylum to National Security Agency leak source Edward Snowden, the president of Venezuela also offered to grant Snowden's request while denouncing the United States in a scathing speech.

Reuters reports that Venezuela President Nicolas Maduro made his offer during a televised military parade marking Venezuela's independence day. In his speech, he denounced the Obama administration for moving to support the opposition forces fighting "legitimate" Syrian President Bashar al-Assad.
Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/snowden-asylum-venezuela-nicaragua-edward-nsa-surveillance-2013-7#ixzz2YFcoJzYr

Edited July 6, 2013 by Publicus

[SinglePot]

don't you just love hypocrisy.

wikileaks mantra is publish and be damned.

What's Syria got to do with Venezuela?

There is no truth, there is only spin.

[Jingthing]

What are the Las Vegas odds on him ACTUALLY making it to Caracas?

[SinglePot]

does it actually matter where he ends up?

[Jingthing]

does it actually matter where he ends up?

Hard to say. I'd like to see him face charges in U.S. court and see what happens.

[SinglePot]

the brave honourable thing for him to do is go back and face the music.

then I would have some respect.

[Jingthing]

the brave honourable thing for him to do is go back and face the music.

then I would have some respect.

Yeah.

Don't hold your breath.

The only way he might do that voluntary is if he has run out of acceptable options.

Supposing he goes to Venezuela, that doesn't mean for life. He's young and Venezuela is not stable.

Edited July 6, 2013 by Jingthing

[SinglePot]

We all have to make tough decisions. every poster on this forum.

snowden's leverage is IT leverage.

I have no respect for him at this point.

[SinglePot]

Snowden: " I have a weapon."

[midas]

the brave honourable thing for him to do is go back and face the music.

then I would have some respect.

Equally, the world may have more respect for USA if he is given a fair trial as in the case of Thomas Drake

[SinglePot]

the brave honourable thing for him to do is go back and face the music.

then I would have some respect.

Equally, the world may have more respect for USA if he is given a fair trial as in the case of Thomas Drake

I don't know the Drake story and the history so can not comment usefully.

All I can say is Obama has got to deal with today's situation going forward.

[midas]

the brave honourable thing for him to do is go back and face the music.

then I would have some respect.

Equally, the world may have more respect for USA if he is given a fair trial as in the case of Thomas Drake

I don't know the Drake story and the history so can not comment usefully.

All I can say is Obama has got to deal with today's situation going forward.

the irony is that the US government were to pursue Snowden under the Espionage Act in a fair trial they would have reveal all the details about the National Security Agency’s telecommunications collection programs in court. That's why Drake was let off the hook in the end

Edited July 6, 2013 by midas

[SinglePot]

if true, it would seem that Snowden is still holding a weapon.

Difficult situation for Obama.

Obama admits guilt, Snowden gets off scot free and applauded as a hero?

out of court settlement?

I know what China would do in the same circumstance.

[mania]

if true, it would seem that Snowden is still holding a weapon.

If what he is holding is proof that millions of innocent American citizens have

had their liberties stolen then ironically I would have to agree it "was" a weapon.

But, A weapon not aimed at Terrorist or enemies of the USA. Unless the employers

aka: the citizens of the USA are now also targets alongside America's one time allies

such as Germany etc. ?

As long as it was kept in the dark it was a weapon

Now that it has been exposed hopefully it will be dismantled, As such Edward Snowden

may be the first real Patriot we have seen in a very long time.

“The duty of a patriot is to protect his country from its government.”

― Thomas Paine

Edited July 6, 2013 by mania

[jamhar]

It just occurred to me that this RBT (rat bastard traitor) may have mistimed his act.

I was wondering why Putin has been so hostile against the RBT

I'm thinking that with Sochi coming up,

Putin needs as little flack possible

to deal with all the internal terrorist threats

and needs somewhat of a decent relationship with the US

Another time, and I think Putin would given the RBT asylum.

Any thoughts?

[Scott]

That's an interesting idea.

[simple1]

With numerous calls by US politicians and those in the intelligence community to imprison Snowden for life, together with the precedent set by the cruel treatment of Manning whilst in detention, the US has by its actions done everything to discourage Snowden to voluntarily return to the US.

A trail for Snowden to prove the harm done by Snowden’s revelations to establish the period of imprisonment would be held in closed court sessions; there would be no transparency.

[mania]

Another time, and I think Putin would given the RBT asylum.

Any thoughts?

I believe Putin did give asylum & in a sense continues to do so

by not arresting or extraditing

BUT, he has made clear that if a lifetime asylum is given to Snowden it

would be on condition he "stops damaging 'American partners' with further leaks"

That sounds normal to me. I do not know many US trade partners ( of size anyway ) that

would take in an asylum seeker then let them continue to make waves with a trading partner.

Edited July 7, 2013 by mania

[SinglePot]

I don't know what his contract of employment said, but I wouldn't be surprised if he was in breach of it.

[Publicus]

the brave honourable thing for him to do is go back and face the music.

then I would have some respect.

Equally, the world may have more respect for USA if he is given a fair trial as in the case of Thomas Drake

Snowden has publically acknowledged stealing highly classified national security documents and information and has willfully made some of that information public knowledge via three newspapers on three continents, the Guardian, the Washington Post, the South China Morning Post.

The US government will have little if any problem prosecuting Snowden for violations of the Espionage Act, especially given the governments of Beijing and Moscow have "drained" his hard drives or memory sticks of all the information he entered into them - only fools would doubt that this did occur. The fact is, Snowden's best defense, the duty of all defense lawyers, is a hopeless defense.

Prosecuting Snowden will be no more difficult than it was to prosecute for espionage Christopher Boyce and Andrew Daulton Lee, i.e., the falcon and the snowman.

In fact prosecuting Snowden will be easier. The US Government could hire a deaf, dumb and blind lawyer to prosecute Snowden to put him away for at least 30 years, no problem.

Christopher Boyce & Andrew Daulton Lee: Two Trials

Boyce and Lee were tried separately since their defenses were not congruent. Both proceedings were held before U.S. District Judge Robert Kelleher. After less than three and a half hours of deliberations, the jury found Boyce guilty on all eight counts of espionage and conspiracy to commit espionage. Judge Kelleher sentenced Boyce to 40 years in prison. In Lee's trial, Judge Kelleher sentenced Lee to life in prison.

http://www.trutv.com/library/crime/terrorists_spies/spies/boyce_lee/5.html

Edited July 7, 2013 by Publicus

[keemapoot]

I don't know what his contract of employment said, but I wouldn't be surprised if he was in breach of it.

He was a low-level contractor working for Booz Allen Hamilton. For sure he had all sorts of non-disclosure contractual provisions with them, and it's not known what level of US gov't top secret clearance he had (many contractors do have high levels, though maybe not him?).

What stunned officials about Snowden was that a low-level contractor could gain access to a number of disparate intelligence programs, each of them walled off behind levels of classification above his top-secret clearance. Snowden's job was to ensure that classified computer networks were operating properly; that apparently allowed him to get past security barriers and browse at will.

What this guy did was snoop where he wasn't authorized, able to do so because he was a geek.

Edited July 7, 2013 by keemapoot

[mania]

The US government will have little if any problem prosecuting Snowden for violations of the Espionage Act, especially given the governments of Beijing and Moscow have "drained" his hard drives or memory sticks of all the information he entered into them - only fools would doubt that this did occur.

It is interesting that Snowdens detractors at times claim he is a genius & has accessed levels far above his clearance. Creating digital keys etc. worthy of a Mission Impossible IMF agent. I am awaiting the claim he took a picture of his boss so he could use a close up of his retina to get into higher clearance areas

Yet in direct contrast they assume someone intelligent enough to pull off all the aforementioned would then fly into countries known to have heavy intelligence communities themselves carrying everything he has....Pretty amazing! These folks that think this are either very useful idiots/extremely gullible sheep.

They should decide if he is intelligent/crafty or flat out as stupid as they want to portray him.

Cannot be conveniently both

[Credo]

It's quite possible to be very smart in some things and quite naive in others.

[SinglePot]

I don't know what his contract of employment said, but I wouldn't be surprised if he was in breach of it.

He was a low-level contractor working for Booz Allen Hamilton. For sure he had all sorts of non-disclosure contractual provisions with them, and it's not known what level of US gov't top secret clearance he had (many contractors do have high levels, though maybe not him?).

What stunned officials about Snowden was that a low-level contractor could gain access to a number of disparate intelligence programs, each of them walled off behind levels of classification above his top-secret clearance. Snowden's job was to ensure that classified computer networks were operating properly; that apparently allowed him to get past security barriers and browse at will.

What this guy did was snoop where he wasn't authorized, able to do so because he was a geek.

Does NSA know accurately what information he got access to? Edited July 7, 2013 by SinglePot

[FDog]

I think it would be very difficult for the US to get a conviction of espionage on him.

Is China and Russia really the 'enemy' anyway?

It has been said that the information on his computers are encrypted so unlikely they can get any info out of them without knowing the key and pretty near impossible for the court to get any evidence that he gave any information to China and Russia.

Snowden never made any information public at all. What he did do was give information to the newspaper. It is the newspaper that made the information public. Why hasn't the editor of that paper been charged?

[SinglePot]

"Is China and Russia really the 'enemy' anyway?"

1. Who do you think is the enemy?

2. Ome of the primary functions of NSA is to protect US against terrorism ......from ?

you tell me

[Credo]

Espionage probably includes giving classified information to any gov't, regardless of the country.

[SinglePot]

PS. According to Snowden and as reported in South China Morning Post, NSA have been hacking big time into critical targets in a large emerging nation in the east.

Whose complaining?

[Publicus]

I think it would be very difficult for the US to get a conviction of espionage on him.

Is China and Russia really the 'enemy' anyway?

It has been said that the information on his computers are encrypted so unlikely they can get any info out of them without knowing the key and pretty near impossible for the court to get any evidence that he gave any information to China and Russia.

Snowden never made any information public at all. What he did do was give information to the newspaper. It is the newspaper that made the information public. Why hasn't the editor of that paper been charged?

Wrong.

You're grabbing wildly in the air.

Snowden violated his contract of non disclosure - that in itself is automatic prison time.

Speaking with reporters and/or editors of a newspaper to provide the classified national and global security documents and information is conspiracy to commit espionage- more prison time. (Whether the government chooses to charge the journalists involved with conspiracy and conscious acts is a decision the government can easily make consistent with the law, tho it's rarely if ever been done in the past.)

When Snowden secretly fled the country with the information and the documents he violated his contract and several aspects of the Espionage Act - even more prison time.

A government lawyer carried in on his deathbed could get a guilty verdict against Snowden in a court of law. Moreover, the particular court where the US Government files espionage and related charges, US District Court for the Eastern District of Virginia, has hangin' judges in espionage cases (referenced above in a previous post by me).

The government is already relieved of any burden to provide any additional specifics of the Espionage law Snowden violated. He's already violated more than enough to be convicted. He's just not as smart as Drake and he's a lot dumber than Boyce, likely equally as stupid as Andrew Daulton Lee.

Maybe Putin can blast Snowden off to the space station for a couple of years, but then what goes up must come down.

Edited July 7, 2013 by Publicus