Dengue Outbreak

wilcopops · July 10, 2013

Seems that Queensland,Australia has a Dengue problem !

http://www.health.qld.gov.au/dengue/outbreaks/current.asp

Dengue is a worldwide problem, mainly in tropical and sub-tropical regions.

It's increase is likely due to climate change and increasing populations in these areas.

Sheryl · July 10, 2013

Chikungunya is clinically indistinguishable from Dengue (the non-hemorrhagic form) and is also endemic in Thailand. Unless a test for serum antibodies is done you can never be sure if a patient had dengue or chik. Also doesn't much matter as the clinical management is the same as is the prevention (it is also mosquito-borne...and the aedes mosquito at that).

Luckily there is no hemorrhagic form so although awful to have it is less dangerous.

James1950 · July 10, 2013

This is a interesting article

http://www.denguevaccines.org/brazil%E2%80%99s-new-anti-dengue-tactic-genetically-modified-mosquitoes

James

wilcopops · July 11, 2013

Chikungunya is clinically indistinguishable from Dengue (the non-hemorrhagic form) and is also endemic in Thailand. Unless a test for serum antibodies is done you can never be sure if a patient had dengue or chik. Also doesn't much matter as the clinical management is the same as is the prevention (it is also mosquito-borne...and the aedes mosquito at that).

Luckily there is no hemorrhagic form so although awful to have it is less dangerous.

In one sense it does matter as it may be misdiagnosed as Dengue and added to the stats. I am still of the opinion that diagnosis in Thailand is very unreliable.

Edited July 11, 2013 by wilcopops

wilcopops · July 11, 2013

This is a interesting article

http://www.denguevaccines.org/brazil%E2%80%99s-new-anti-dengue-tactic-genetically-modified-mosquitoes

James

they are researching GM mozzies in Oz too............but this org is aimed at worldwide results.

http://www.eliminatedengue.com

jrtmedic · July 11, 2013

"In one sense it does matter as it may be misdiagnosed as Dengue and added to the stats. I am still of the opinion that diagnosis in Thailand is very unreliable."

Clinicians in Thailand have vast experience of diagnosing and treating Dengue and if I were to be infected I would be very happy to be treated in Thailand.

Laboratory investigation (blood tests) are of a routine nature and would available in all but the smallest of clinics.

Whilst for many treatment is simple and based on paracetamol and the maintenance of hydration there is a small percentage of Dengue sufferers who will require more aggressive treatment.

Thai Dengue treatment protocols follow the W.H.O. GUIDELINES FOR DIAGNOSIS, TREATMENT, PREVENTION AND CONTROL of Dengue fever.

These guidelines can be seen/read here

http://whqlibdoc.who.int/publications/2009/9789241547871_eng.pdf

wilcopops · July 11, 2013

There certainly are limitations and issues with any kind of national statistical reporting...

However, a lot of members here over the past weeks have been, understandably, asking for some information indicating what parts of the country are having the greatest levels of dengue cases.

The various data points listed above begin to give all of us some sense of where the hotspots have been occurring.

I am worried about that too and what they do with this information........"hot spots" may be identified, but the base reality is that Dengue is ENDEMIC. Simply pointing out hot spots may well give readers a false sense of security.

Dengue carrying mozzies live- and dengue thrives - in any area where there are people close together and little bits of standing water. Transmission to other areas is now facilitated by infected people travelling as well as the mozzies limited ability to travel, so no area in Thailand can be regarded as "Dengue clear" - only vigilance by people in regards to protection and prevention can help.....letting one's guard down because one isn't in a hot spot is not an advisable option.

wilcopops · July 11, 2013

"Clinicians in Thailand have vast experience of diagnosing and treating Dengue and if I were to be infected I would be very happy to be treated in Thailand.

Laboratory investigation (blood tests) are of a routine nature and would available in all but the smallest of clinics." - I find this statement terrifying. that someone could have such blind faith in the Thai medical industry is truly worrying.

Clinics and hospitals are full of under-trained (arrogant ?) doctors who having read or heard about Dengue are prepared to misdiagnose almost any fever as that disease - the result inaccurate statistics and poor or inappropriate treatment

PS - To those who have had "Dengue" - how do you know 100%? Was a blood/antibody test carried out? did you see this or were you just told "You have Dengue"?

it is a huge leap of faith to assume that you are going to end up in the one hospital with a particular doctor who is up to speed on this

Edited July 11, 2013 by wilcopops

jrtmedic · July 11, 2013

Those who subscribe to conspiracy theory are probably better off in their own countries!

Edited July 11, 2013 by jrtmedic

wilcopops · July 11, 2013

Those who subscribe to conspiracy theory are probably better off in their own countries!

THis gets my vote for the most facile post on this thread..

If you have any knowledge of how a hospital should be run and IS run in Thailand you would be very cautious about health care here.

I have daily contact with doctors and others both in this country and elsewhere.....and the conclusions THEY come to about healthcare in Thailand is FRIGHTENING - there is good logic and reason behind my conclusions - I read and listen to those who are QUALIFIED to talk about the issues in healthcare not resort to ad hominem attacks based on?.....well nothing apparently.

Sheryl · July 11, 2013

Keep it civil please.

TallGuyJohninBKK · July 11, 2013

I'm sure the medical community here has experience with dengue and its treatment.

At the same time, from my observations of doctors here, there are many (not all) that seem prone to unfounded facile judgments and erroneous assumptions without having the medical facts/data to base those on.

It's as important here, or perhaps more important here, as anywhere: A patient needs to understand what is occurring with their diagnosis and treatment, and know on what basis decisions are being made.

wilcopops · July 11, 2013

Al Jeseera is broacasting news of a "breakthrough" in making a dengue vaccine - they say tests have been succesful and clinical trials will begin soon. - this means that it could be available to the general public in 8 years.....

sounds great?

Well this "breakthrough" has been hailed several times in the last 3 years. If you are involved in this research there is a great temptation to "go public" early - it enhances the prestige of your research and makes funding more likely.....the one thing missing in all this is RESULTS - don't hold you breath. lets hear the peer reviews first.......

PS 0- they also report of a village using specials herb balls in their waer tanks etc......which is probably just what they suggest - a load of .........

Edited July 11, 2013 by wilcopops

connda · July 11, 2013

"In one sense it does matter as it may be misdiagnosed as Dengue and added to the stats. I am still of the opinion that diagnosis in Thailand is very unreliable."

Clinicians in Thailand have vast experience of diagnosing and treating Dengue and if I were to be infected I would be very happy to be treated in Thailand.

Laboratory investigation (blood tests) are of a routine nature and would available in all but the smallest of clinics.

Whilst for many treatment is simple and based on paracetamol and the maintenance of hydration there is a small percentage of Dengue sufferers who will require more aggressive treatment.

Thai Dengue treatment protocols follow the W.H.O. GUIDELINES FOR DIAGNOSIS, TREATMENT, PREVENTION AND CONTROL of Dengue fever.

These guidelines can be seen/read here

http://whqlibdoc.who.int/publications/2009/9789241547871_eng.pdf

Wow, now that is comprehensive! Thanks for the link.

connda · July 11, 2013

"Clinicians in Thailand have vast experience of diagnosing and treating Dengue and if I were to be infected I would be very happy to be treated in Thailand.

Laboratory investigation (blood tests) are of a routine nature and would available in all but the smallest of clinics." - I find this statement terrifying. that someone could have such blind faith in the Thai medical industry is truly worrying.

Clinics and hospitals are full of under-trained (arrogant ?) doctors who having read or heard about Dengue are prepared to misdiagnose almost any fever as that disease - the result inaccurate statistics and poor or inappropriate treatment

PS - To those who have had "Dengue" - how do you know 100%? Was a blood/antibody test carried out? did you see this or were you just told "You have Dengue"?

it is a huge leap of faith to assume that you are going to end up in the one hospital with a particular doctor who is up to speed on this

PS - To those who have had "Dengue" - how do you know 100%? Was a blood/antibody test carried out? did you see this or were you just told "You have Dengue"?

The doctor did a lab tests and told me, "You have Dengue." What tests? I have no idea and at the time I didn't care considering how I felt. But I think the real give-away for me was the 102+ fever and the blood leaking out the the pours of my legs. I was pretty sure the doc was spot on.

I'm willing to give the medical community here the benefit of the doubt. They have significantly more experience with Dengue than, let's say, the US or the EU. I had no problem with the diagnosis or the care (with the exception that I really wanted codeine for the pain which was refused -- tramadol sufficed).

Edited July 11, 2013 by connda

wilcopops · July 11, 2013

"Clinicians in Thailand have vast experience of diagnosing and treating Dengue and if I were to be infected I would be very happy to be treated in Thailand.

Laboratory investigation (blood tests) are of a routine nature and would available in all but the smallest of clinics." - I find this statement terrifying. that someone could have such blind faith in the Thai medical industry is truly worrying.

Clinics and hospitals are full of under-trained (arrogant ?) doctors who having read or heard about Dengue are prepared to misdiagnose almost any fever as that disease - the result inaccurate statistics and poor or inappropriate treatment

PS - To those who have had "Dengue" - how do you know 100%? Was a blood/antibody test carried out? did you see this or were you just told "You have Dengue"?

it is a huge leap of faith to assume that you are going to end up in the one hospital with a particular doctor who is up to speed on this

PS - To those who have had "Dengue" - how do you know 100%? Was a blood/antibody test carried out? did you see this or were you just told "You have Dengue"?

The doctor did a lab tests and told me, "You have Dengue." What tests? I have no idea and at the time I didn't care considering how I felt. But I think the real give-away for me was the 102+ fever and the blood leaking out the the pours of my legs. I was pretty sure the doc was spot on.

I'm willing to give the medical community here the benefit of the doubt. They have significantly more experience with Dengue than, let's say, the US or the EU. I had no problem with the diagnosis or the care (with the exception that I really wanted codeine for the pain which was refused -- tramadol sufficed).

you see Dengue isn't the only fever - so at that point he / she could have been wrong - further on you need to be treated for the right disease - are we assuming that dengue is the only haemorrhagic disease???

in all probability your doc was right but how much margin of error is is customary to leave - my information would suggest that the avverage Thai medical practitioner hae very few diagnostic skills and is very likely to jump to conclusions.

as for tests - they worry me too - as someone has said they are route - this is where the problem starts - familiarity breeds contempt - I know of at least 2 instances where the wrong result for HIV has bee returned - and I suspect dengue testing is no more reliable.

Again we come to the question of blind faith of people of men in white coats and hospitals that LOOK nice......no amount of machinery and technology can replace methodical work and good training.

Edited July 11, 2013 by wilcopops

Lite Beer · July 14, 2013

5,400 dengue patients found in lower part of Thailand's northeast

BANGKOK, 14 July 2013 (NNT) - Over 5,000 people in the lower northeastern part of Thailand have been found with dengue fever, 5 of which have died of the disease.

According to Nakhon Ratchasima's Disease Control Department, more than 5,400 poeple in four provinces in the northeast have been infected with the deadly dengue virus. These four provinces include Nakhon Ratchasima, Chaiyaphum, Buriram, and Surin. Since the beginning of 2013, there are 5 patients died of the disease. The department further revealed that the majority of infections are between the age of 14-24 years old.

Therefore, the Disease Control Department has urged all related agencies to step up measures against the virus by using the mosquito-killer spray and cleaning up all risk-prone areas, especailly in schools and communities, where mosquitoes usually breed.

The department has also warned those who experience flu, headache, body ache, or loss of appetite for longer than 2 days, to consult a doctor immediately as they could be infected by the deadly dengue virus.

-- NNT 2013-07-14

denby45 · July 14, 2013

"Clinicians in Thailand have vast experience of diagnosing and treating Dengue and if I were to be infected I would be very happy to be treated in Thailand.

Laboratory investigation (blood tests) are of a routine nature and would available in all but the smallest of clinics." - I find this statement terrifying. that someone could have such blind faith in the Thai medical industry is truly worrying.

Clinics and hospitals are full of under-trained (arrogant ?) doctors who having read or heard about Dengue are prepared to misdiagnose almost any fever as that disease - the result inaccurate statistics and poor or inappropriate treatment

PS - To those who have had "Dengue" - how do you know 100%? Was a blood/antibody test carried out? did you see this or were you just told "You have Dengue"?

it is a huge leap of faith to assume that you are going to end up in the one hospital with a particular doctor who is up to speed on this

PS - To those who have had "Dengue" - how do you know 100%? Was a blood/antibody test carried out? did you see this or were you just told "You have Dengue"?

The doctor did a lab tests and told me, "You have Dengue." What tests? I have no idea and at the time I didn't care considering how I felt. But I think the real give-away for me was the 102+ fever and the blood leaking out the the pours of my legs. I was pretty sure the doc was spot on.

I'm willing to give the medical community here the benefit of the doubt. They have significantly more experience with Dengue than, let's say, the US or the EU. I had no problem with the diagnosis or the care (with the exception that I really wanted codeine for the pain which was refused -- tramadol sufficed).

PS - To those who have had "Dengue" - how do you know 100%? Was a blood/antibody test carried out? did you see this or were you just told "You have Dengue"?

The doctor did a lab tests and told me, "You have Dengue." What tests? I have no idea and at the time I didn't care considering how I felt. But I think the real give-away for me was the 102+ fever and the blood leaking out the the pours of my legs. I was pretty sure the doc was spot on.

I'm willing to give the medical community here the benefit of the doubt. They have significantly more experience with Dengue than, let's say, the US or the EU. I had no problem with the diagnosis or the care (with the exception that I really wanted codeine for the pain which was refused -- tramadol sufficed).

you see Dengue isn't the only fever - so at that point he / she could have been wrong - further on you need to be treated for the right disease - are we assuming that dengue is the only haemorrhagic disease???

in all probability your doc was right but how much margin of error is is customary to leave - my information would suggest that the avverage Thai medical practitioner hae very few diagnostic skills and is very likely to jump to conclusions.

as for tests - they worry me too - as someone has said they are route - this is where the problem starts - familiarity breeds contempt - I know of at least 2 instances where the wrong result for HIV has bee returned - and I suspect dengue testing is no more reliable.

Again we come to the question of blind faith of people of men in white coats and hospitals that LOOK nice......no amount of machinery and technology can replace methodical work and good training.

I have just returned from pattaya. During my visit I suddenly found myself with a tremendous fever feeling cold and shiverring which I could not stop. I was confined to my bed and could not even raise my head for 2 days. On the third day the fever subsided but was replaced by a swelling of my left wrist and such excrutiating joint pain I just wanted to die. I took some Tramadol tablets and that eased the pain enough for me to get off to Pattaya Bankok hospital. In the meantime my right wrist joined in and again the pain was extremely intense. Also the big toe on my left foot became painful. The hospital took blood and urine sample tests and I awaited the results. However I already knew what it was as a result of a quick visit online earlier in a brief interlude when the pain was just bearable. I also knew there was no direct cure just time. You could have knocked me down with a feather when the results came back negative for dengue. Since then I am back in Abu Dhabi for 2 weeks and still I have pains in my hands and wrists which is gradually easing. I did further research since my return and consulted a doctor here and both of us are absolutely convinced it was dengue or Chikungunya which should have shown up in the lab reports. If they were done properly. Draw your own conclusions

Den

blorg · July 14, 2013

@Denby- you say your doc in Abu Dhabi is "convinced" it was dengue, but presumably he hasn't run a test for it, or you'd say that. You can run a blood test for dengue antibodies even years after infection that will conclusively indicate whether you have ever been infected.

No idea why you'd have such confidence in your Abu Dhabi doc over the Thai one if he hasn't run a test himself.

You know, it is just possible that what you had wasn't dengue. The symptoms don't seem specific and you are self diagnosing over the internet. You can convince yourself you have every disease known to man if you just Google symptoms. You are not a medical professional. Get your doc in Abu Dhabi to test for it before complaining about the Thais misdiagnosing it.

I've had it myself, and was initially misdiagnosed, but that was in Cambodia where the health system is woeful and (many of) the doctors morons. Subsequently confirmed dengue from an actual dengue blood test by a Western doctor (the Cambodian doc said he would test for it but didn't, he just ran a blood count- but even that showed massively depleted WBC which is a dengue indicator.) Honestly, Thailand has a fantastic health system for the region compared to its neighbours.

To be honest though, as there isn't anything you can do about it but keep hydrated and wait it out, arguably the main reason you would want to confirm it is dengue is to know that it's not something else more serious that DOES need treatment (such as malaria.)

Edited July 14, 2013 by blorg

CPH · July 14, 2013

@Denby- you say your doc in Abu Dhabi is "convinced" it was dengue, but presumably he hasn't run a test for it, or you'd say that. You can run a blood test for dengue antibodies even years after infection that will conclusively indicate whether you have ever been infected. No idea why you'd have such confidence in your Abu Dhabi doc over the Thai one if he hasn't run a test himself. You know, it is just possible that what you had wasn't dengue. The symptoms don't seem specific and you are self diagnosing over the internet. You can convince yourself you have every disease known to man if you just Google symptoms. You are not a medical professional. Get your doc in Abu Dhabi to test for it before complaining about the Thais misdiagnosing it. I've had it myself, and was initially misdiagnosed, but that was in Cambodia where the health system is woeful and (many of) the doctors morons. Subsequently confirmed dengue from an actual dengue blood test by a Western doctor (the Cambodian doc said he would test for it but didn't, he just ran a blood count- but even that showed massively depleted WBC which is a dengue indicator.) Honestly, Thailand has a fantastic health system for the region compared to its neighbours. To be honest though, as there isn't anything you can do about it but keep hydrated and wait it out, arguably the main reason you would want to confirm it is dengue is to know that it's not something else more serious that DOES need treatment (such as malaria.)

I had the same symptoms as Den and went to the local hospital. All blood tests showed nothing and the doctor told me it was common cold. I was very sick and luckily on the way out a medical helper told my wife that tests for Dengue sometimes only became positive after 2-3 days. I went home but got more and more ill and went back to the hospital after two days and the CBC (complete blood count) showed that I had Dengue Hemorhagic fever. I was admitted immediately and put on drop for five days. I really thought I would die but survived. Complications are just now disappearing after 4 month. If you suspect Dengue fever be patient and get tested for Dengue and CBC several times over some days. It is a very dangerous illness.

wilcopops · July 14, 2013

@Denby- you say your doc in Abu Dhabi is "convinced" it was dengue, but presumably he hasn't run a test for it, or you'd say that. You can run a blood test for dengue antibodies even years after infection that will conclusively indicate whether you have ever been infected. No idea why you'd have such confidence in your Abu Dhabi doc over the Thai one if he hasn't run a test himself. You know, it is just possible that what you had wasn't dengue. The symptoms don't seem specific and you are self diagnosing over the internet. You can convince yourself you have every disease known to man if you just Google symptoms. You are not a medical professional. Get your doc in Abu Dhabi to test for it before complaining about the Thais misdiagnosing it. I've had it myself, and was initially misdiagnosed, but that was in Cambodia where the health system is woeful and (many of) the doctors morons. Subsequently confirmed dengue from an actual dengue blood test by a Western doctor (the Cambodian doc said he would test for it but didn't, he just ran a blood count- but even that showed massively depleted WBC which is a dengue indicator.) Honestly, Thailand has a fantastic health system for the region compared to its neighbours. To be honest though, as there isn't anything you can do about it but keep hydrated and wait it out, arguably the main reason you would want to confirm it is dengue is to know that it's not something else more serious that DOES need treatment (such as malaria.)

Tests even after you recover will reveal Dengue antibodies or antibodies to whatever it was.

wilcopops · July 14, 2013

I think almost anyone who has lived in Thailand for a few years will have experienced some kind of inexplicable omissions incompetence or negligence by a tradesman or "expert" of one kind or another......don't for one minute think that the medical industry in Thailand is in any way immune to the same disease - like Dengue, it's ENDEMIC........

Even amongst the small sample of people who read this thread and bothered to reply, there have been one to two who have had problems with correct diagnosis etc......they probably went to private or pay-for hospitals or clinics..........given that there are tens of thousands of people in Thailand infected by the disease one wonders just how many are mis-diagnosed or simply reported by guesswork or not reported at all, especially in less well-off areas of the country, one way or the other.

Blandishments and statements like "I'm sure they have vast experience in dealing with dengue" are actually nonsense - they may be familiar with the fever but I suspect very few are really properly trained to ID and deal with it - most are just likely to say "yep, it's Dengue" and leave it at that. More than likely they are afraid to admit how little they really know.

It is not just Dengue - there are hundreds or thousands of tests done everyday by labs that have slip-shop practices and worse; from the tests right through to the paperwork the methods are mind-bogglingly inept and mistakes are going to be both inevitable and commonplace. ....and of course there is no comeback if they are ever detected making mistakes.

Doctors in Thailand are a law unto themselves and thanks to poor universities and widespread graft nepotism and other forms of corruption the standard of training is poor - never trust the bits of paper you see on the wall. The rigid hierarchical system leaves the doctors and other high-ranking officials as more-or-less untouchable.

Private patients - don't be fooled by nice furniture and "gadgets" - it is the personnel that matter and so very often fall short of their requirements.

Edited July 14, 2013 by wilcopops

denby45 · July 14, 2013

@Denby- you say your doc in Abu Dhabi is "convinced" it was dengue, but presumably he hasn't run a test for it, or you'd say that. You can run a blood test for dengue antibodies even years after infection that will conclusively indicate whether you have ever been infected. No idea why you'd have such confidence in your Abu Dhabi doc over the Thai one if he hasn't run a test himself. You know, it is just possible that what you had wasn't dengue. The symptoms don't seem specific and you are self diagnosing over the internet. You can convince yourself you have every disease known to man if you just Google symptoms. You are not a medical professional. Get your doc in Abu Dhabi to test for it before complaining about the Thais misdiagnosing it. I've had it myself, and was initially misdiagnosed, but that was in Cambodia where the health system is woeful and (many of) the doctors morons. Subsequently confirmed dengue from an actual dengue blood test by a Western doctor (the Cambodian doc said he would test for it but didn't, he just ran a blood count- but even that showed massively depleted WBC which is a dengue indicator.) Honestly, Thailand has a fantastic health system for the region compared to its neighbours. To be honest though, as there isn't anything you can do about it but keep hydrated and wait it out, arguably the main reason you would want to confirm it is dengue is to know that it's not something else more serious that DOES need treatment (such as malaria.)

I had the same symptoms as Den and went to the local hospital. All blood tests showed nothing and the doctor told me it was common cold. I was very sick and luckily on the way out a medical helper told my wife that tests for Dengue sometimes only became positive after 2-3 days. I went home but got more and more ill and went back to the hospital after two days and the CBC (complete blood count) showed that I had Dengue Hemorhagic fever. I was admitted immediately and put on drop for five days. I really thought I would die but survived. Complications are just now disappearing after 4 month. If you suspect Dengue fever be patient and get tested for Dengue and CBC several times over some days. It is a very dangerous illness.

Actually I was surprised the doctor here knew about these viruses but he told me he has seen this disease (which he personnaly thinks is chikungunya virus) many times before. There have been several outbreaks of this in different parts of India and because he is the medical doctor for the company here in UAE he has seen this appearing in many of the Indian expats returning back to work here from their leave over the years. His knowledge seemed to be quite good on the subject. His advice seems to be spot on because he also predicted I would be feeling very tired throughout the day and probably would find difficulty to sleep soundly at night. That is exactly what has been happening for the last 2 weeks. It's a bit like jetlag but of course it cannot be because there are only 3 hours difference between Thailand and here and I never had it before on any of my previous trips.

The reason I didn't get tested here was because the doctor did not recommend it and of course I felt much better. Plus I already claimed on my insurance for the first instance for the treatment and the medication they gave me and my medical only covers emergencies. I would have had to pay from my own pocket and I was not prepared to pay just to satisfy my curiosity. One other thing he told me was that I was most probably immune for getting this virus again but that there were many different strains of this type of virus around, including dengue. Therefore I should still take adequate precautions against getting bitten again. He recommended either a DEET type repellent or something called Odomos which is used and recommended in India. I will try to get one of my collegues to bring some back for me.

Den

wilcopops · July 14, 2013

@Denby- you say your doc in Abu Dhabi is "convinced" it was dengue, but presumably he hasn't run a test for it, or you'd say that. You can run a blood test for dengue antibodies even years after infection that will conclusively indicate whether you have ever been infected. No idea why you'd have such confidence in your Abu Dhabi doc over the Thai one if he hasn't run a test himself. You know, it is just possible that what you had wasn't dengue. The symptoms don't seem specific and you are self diagnosing over the internet. You can convince yourself you have every disease known to man if you just Google symptoms. You are not a medical professional. Get your doc in Abu Dhabi to test for it before complaining about the Thais misdiagnosing it. I've had it myself, and was initially misdiagnosed, but that was in Cambodia where the health system is woeful and (many of) the doctors morons. Subsequently confirmed dengue from an actual dengue blood test by a Western doctor (the Cambodian doc said he would test for it but didn't, he just ran a blood count- but even that showed massively depleted WBC which is a dengue indicator.) Honestly, Thailand has a fantastic health system for the region compared to its neighbours. To be honest though, as there isn't anything you can do about it but keep hydrated and wait it out, arguably the main reason you would want to confirm it is dengue is to know that it's not something else more serious that DOES need treatment (such as malaria.)

I had the same symptoms as Den and went to the local hospital. All blood tests showed nothing and the doctor told me it was common cold. I was very sick and luckily on the way out a medical helper told my wife that tests for Dengue sometimes only became positive after 2-3 days. I went home but got more and more ill and went back to the hospital after two days and the CBC (complete blood count) showed that I had Dengue Hemorhagic fever. I was admitted immediately and put on drop for five days. I really thought I would die but survived. Complications are just now disappearing after 4 month. If you suspect Dengue fever be patient and get tested for Dengue and CBC several times over some days. It is a very dangerous illness.

Actually I was surprised the doctor here knew about these viruses but he told me he has seen this disease (which he personnaly thinks is chikungunya virus) many times before. There have been several outbreaks of this in different parts of India and because he is the medical doctor for the company here in UAE he has seen this appearing in many of the Indian expats returning back to work here from their leave over the years. His knowledge seemed to be quite good on the subject. His advice seems to be spot on because he also predicted I would be feeling very tired throughout the day and probably would find difficulty to sleep soundly at night. That is exactly what has been happening for the last 2 weeks. It's a bit like jetlag but of course it cannot be because there are only 3 hours difference between Thailand and here and I never had it before on any of my previous trips.

The reason I didn't get tested here was because the doctor did not recommend it and of course I felt much better. Plus I already claimed on my insurance for the first instance for the treatment and the medication they gave me and my medical only covers emergencies. I would have had to pay from my own pocket and I was not prepared to pay just to satisfy my curiosity. One other thing he told me was that I was most probably immune for getting this virus again but that there were many different strains of this type of virus around, including dengue. Therefore I should still take adequate precautions against getting bitten again. He recommended either a DEET type repellent or something called Odomos which is used and recommended in India. I will try to get one of my collegues to bring some back for me.

Den

"You can convince yourself you have every disease known to man if you just Google symptoms." this is SO true!

Anyone who uses the net instead of a doctor is a loon of the first degree. Trouble is that many doctors are no better.

wilcopops · July 14, 2013

"The reason I didn't get tested here was because the doctor did not recommend it and of course I felt much better. Plus I already claimed on my insurance for the first instance for the treatment and the medication they gave me and my medical only covers emergencies. I would have had to pay from my own pocket and I was not prepared to pay just to satisfy my curiosity"

...and here is a perfect example of how MONEY and thereby insurance can affect diagnosis.

wilcopops · July 14, 2013

For those of you who thought Dengue is the only haemorralghic fever.........

Four groups of hemorrhagic viruses. The viruses that cause hemorrhagic diseases are members of four groups. These are the arenaviruses, filoviruses, bunyaviruses, and the flaviviruses. Arenaviruses are the cause of Argentine hemorrhagic fever, Bolivian hemorrhagic fever, Sabiaassociated hemorrhagic fever, Lassa fever, Lymphocytic choriomeningitis, and Venezuelan hemorrhagic fever. The bunyavirus group causes Crimean-Congo hemorrhagic fever, Rift Valley fever, and Hantavirus pulmonary syndrome. Filoviruses are the cause of Ebola hemorrhagic fever and Marburg hemorrhagic fever. Lastly, the flaviviruses cause tick-borne encephalitis, yellow fever, Dengue hemorrhagic fever, Kyasanur Forest disease, and Omsk hemorrhagic fever.

Read more: http://www.answers.com/topic/hemorrhagic-fevers-and-diseases#ixzz2Z10P41eT

denby45 · July 14, 2013

@Denby- you say your doc in Abu Dhabi is "convinced" it was dengue, but presumably he hasn't run a test for it, or you'd say that. You can run a blood test for dengue antibodies even years after infection that will conclusively indicate whether you have ever been infected. No idea why you'd have such confidence in your Abu Dhabi doc over the Thai one if he hasn't run a test himself. You know, it is just possible that what you had wasn't dengue. The symptoms don't seem specific and you are self diagnosing over the internet. You can convince yourself you have every disease known to man if you just Google symptoms. You are not a medical professional. Get your doc in Abu Dhabi to test for it before complaining about the Thais misdiagnosing it. I've had it myself, and was initially misdiagnosed, but that was in Cambodia where the health system is woeful and (many of) the doctors morons. Subsequently confirmed dengue from an actual dengue blood test by a Western doctor (the Cambodian doc said he would test for it but didn't, he just ran a blood count- but even that showed massively depleted WBC which is a dengue indicator.) Honestly, Thailand has a fantastic health system for the region compared to its neighbours. To be honest though, as there isn't anything you can do about it but keep hydrated and wait it out, arguably the main reason you would want to confirm it is dengue is to know that it's not something else more serious that DOES need treatment (such as malaria.)

I had the same symptoms as Den and went to the local hospital. All blood tests showed nothing and the doctor told me it was common cold. I was very sick and luckily on the way out a medical helper told my wife that tests for Dengue sometimes only became positive after 2-3 days. I went home but got more and more ill and went back to the hospital after two days and the CBC (complete blood count) showed that I had Dengue Hemorhagic fever. I was admitted immediately and put on drop for five days. I really thought I would die but survived. Complications are just now disappearing after 4 month. If you suspect Dengue fever be patient and get tested for Dengue and CBC several times over some days. It is a very dangerous illness.

Actually I was surprised the doctor here knew about these viruses but he told me he has seen this disease (which he personnaly thinks is chikungunya virus) many times before. There have been several outbreaks of this in different parts of India and because he is the medical doctor for the company here in UAE he has seen this appearing in many of the Indian expats returning back to work here from their leave over the years. His knowledge seemed to be quite good on the subject. His advice seems to be spot on because he also predicted I would be feeling very tired throughout the day and probably would find difficulty to sleep soundly at night. That is exactly what has been happening for the last 2 weeks. It's a bit like jetlag but of course it cannot be because there are only 3 hours difference between Thailand and here and I never had it before on any of my previous trips.

The reason I didn't get tested here was because the doctor did not recommend it and of course I felt much better. Plus I already claimed on my insurance for the first instance for the treatment and the medication they gave me and my medical only covers emergencies. I would have had to pay from my own pocket and I was not prepared to pay just to satisfy my curiosity. One other thing he told me was that I was most probably immune for getting this virus again but that there were many different strains of this type of virus around, including dengue. Therefore I should still take adequate precautions against getting bitten again. He recommended either a DEET type repellent or something called Odomos which is used and recommended in India. I will try to get one of my collegues to bring some back for me.

Den

"You can convince yourself you have every disease known to man if you just Google symptoms." this is SO true!

Anyone who uses the net instead of a doctor is a loon of the first degree. Trouble is that many doctors are no better.

Actually so far I have seen 3 doctor's on the subject. The first one I saw in Pattaya hospital was a GP. She then sent me to a specialist. Both doctors were probably between 20 to 25 years of age. Both very cute by the way. Both were convinced I had dengue. I returned after a few hours to see the results with the specialist. She was as surprised as I to see the negative for dengue from the lab test. The third doctor I saw over here is a very experienced doctor of some fifty something years who as I reported has vast experience on this subject. How do you get off with the statement "You can convince yourself you have every disease known to man if you just Google symptoms". Please read my post properly before making such comments. Further to this I know lab tests are not always 100% accurate as I was once miss diagnosed with very high hemoglobin. Almost cost me my job.

Den

denby45 · July 14, 2013

For those of you who thought Dengue is the only haemorralghic fever.........

Four groups of hemorrhagic viruses. The viruses that cause hemorrhagic diseases are members of four groups. These are the arenaviruses, filoviruses, bunyaviruses, and the flaviviruses. Arenaviruses are the cause of Argentine hemorrhagic fever, Bolivian hemorrhagic fever, Sabiaassociated hemorrhagic fever, Lassa fever, Lymphocytic choriomeningitis, and Venezuelan hemorrhagic fever. The bunyavirus group causes Crimean-Congo hemorrhagic fever, Rift Valley fever, and Hantavirus pulmonary syndrome. Filoviruses are the cause of Ebola hemorrhagic fever and Marburg hemorrhagic fever. Lastly, the flaviviruses cause tick-borne encephalitis, yellow fever, Dengue hemorrhagic fever, Kyasanur Forest disease, and Omsk hemorrhagic fever.

Read more: http://www.answers.com/topic/hemorrhagic-fevers-and-diseases#ixzz2Z10P41eT

Your Quote

"Anyone who uses the net instead of a doctor is a loon of the first degree. Trouble is that many doctors are no better."

OH and I suppose you didn't get that from the internet did you

Hahahaha

Den

wilcopops · July 14, 2013

For those of you who thought Dengue is the only haemorralghic fever.........

Four groups of hemorrhagic viruses. The viruses that cause hemorrhagic diseases are members of four groups. These are the arenaviruses, filoviruses, bunyaviruses, and the flaviviruses. Arenaviruses are the cause of Argentine hemorrhagic fever, Bolivian hemorrhagic fever, Sabiaassociated hemorrhagic fever, Lassa fever, Lymphocytic choriomeningitis, and Venezuelan hemorrhagic fever. The bunyavirus group causes Crimean-Congo hemorrhagic fever, Rift Valley fever, and Hantavirus pulmonary syndrome. Filoviruses are the cause of Ebola hemorrhagic fever and Marburg hemorrhagic fever. Lastly, the flaviviruses cause tick-borne encephalitis, yellow fever, Dengue hemorrhagic fever, Kyasanur Forest disease, and Omsk hemorrhagic fever.

Read more: http://www.answers.com/topic/hemorrhagic-fevers-and-diseases#ixzz2Z10P41eT

Your Quote

"Anyone who uses the net instead of a doctor is a loon of the first degree. Trouble is that many doctors are no better."

OH and I suppose you didn't get that from the internet did you

Hahahaha

Den

Precisely my point - I presume you are referring to the list and not the quote as it looks like you are?

..........you need to know how to interpret info from the net and decide what needs to be taken with a pinch of salt.

The net is a great source of ufo and also mis-info. So if you think you don't need a doc because you've got the net - as above! (and below)

I assumed anyone would realise that the reason I passed that from the net was not for se;f-diagnosis but to give a list of examples of how many haemorraghic diseases one can find.

Perhaps I over-estimated some readers here?

Just in case there are still some who don't get it..

"Anyone who uses the net instead of a doctor is a loon of the first degree."

Edited July 14, 2013 by wilcopops

wilcopops · July 14, 2013

Look - the doctor may have bee experienced or not - I can't tell, but what I CAN tell is that your criteria are somewhat shaky. You seem to e implying that young is not good older is good....this is NOT a good way to judge a doctor = - for a start you have know idea how much the guy gas kept up with changes in medicine since he qual;ivied.....there is a real problem with older Doctors is they settle down for an easy life and haven't p[icked up a N.E.J BMJ or Lancet in years and they propensity to cut corners can be horrendous. (by invocation of "experience").

Actually so far I have seen 3 doctor's on the subject. The first one I saw in Pattaya hospital was a GP. She then sent me to a specialist. Both doctors were probably between 20 to 25 years of age. Both very cute by the way. Both were convinced I had dengue. I returned after a few hours to see the results with the specialist. She was as surprised as I to see the negative for dengue from the lab test. The third doctor I saw over here is a very experienced doctor of some fifty something years who as I reported has vast experience on this subject. How do you get off with the statement "You can convince yourself you have every disease known to man if you just Google symptoms". Please read my post properly before making such comments. Further to this I know lab tests are not always 100% accurate as I was once miss diagnosed with very high hemoglobin. Almost cost me my job.

Den

young Doctors can be energetic keen and fully genned up on all the latest practices....all they need is proper training.

A big problem in Thailand after training is that there is no GP system to speak of - remember ALL doctors don't know EVERYTHING - so there is always the possibility that you end up speaking to a "specialist" but not in infectious diseases....who doesn't have the training in diagnostics of a GP and the illness is missed completely.

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