Thailand urged to tackle dark side of 'Land of Smiles'

[Kananga]

My wife is Thai and she has little inclination to return to Thailand except out of necessity and she is not alone in feeling that way

UK has it's problems but generally speaking it is a very SAFE country in which to live and work. Thailand has become like the Philippines where one is always looking over one's shoulder in case there is someone wishing to do one harm

It is not only physical hurt to be wary of. Business dealings from the smallest to the largest are fraught with danger and Thais will take any opportunity to 'rip off' the naive or unsuspecting.

Like the Phil what could have been a nation paradise has degenrated beyond all recognition over the past thirty years. The sickness is terminal

Some rural girls always want to go abroad, escape from poverty. It's no surprise for me.

And quite different from well educated Thais especially who graduated from abroad. They can choose to live here or there. Some prefer other countries but some prefer Thailand depends on what they have experienced.

Would those be the same 'well educated' Thais that goose-stepped, I mean graduated from the fine arts dept of Chula?

Edited July 20, 2013 by Kananga

[paz]

Reading that article, it makes you wonder why any tourists come at all.....

Most tourists only read the tourist brochures with pictures of white beaches, night clubs and smiling thai people, when they arrive and get ripped off by the taxi driver, robbed in the hotel and threatened by the jet-ski mafia it's already to late to get a refund on the tour, but will they ever come back again?

And you think that would make any difference to that Thailand? Beside, robbed in the hotel is unheard off. Thailand is not Nigeria. Stop whining and move on.

[Kananga]

Reading that article, it makes you wonder why any tourists come at all.....

Most tourists only read the tourist brochures with pictures of white beaches, night clubs and smiling thai people, when they arrive and get ripped off by the taxi driver, robbed in the hotel and threatened by the jet-ski mafia it's already to late to get a refund on the tour, but will they ever come back again?

And you think that would make any difference to that Thailand? Beside, robbed in the hotel is unheard off. Thailand is not Nigeria. Stop whining and move on.

If you could just pull your head out the sand for a moment, you might like to read this http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/612589-receptionist-drugged-hotel-robbed-by-foreigner-in-phuket/

[paz]

For me as a Thai, less tourist is better since I want to give my government some lesson that we can not rely our future and economy on tourism alone. Too easy visa issue brings illegal, criminal tourists and illegal workers that causes a lot of problem here. Samurai gangs in Chiangmai already replaced by Burmese gangs. Police turn-burglars from abroad. Thailand suffocated from its own problems. We don't need anymore problem from abroad.

Wow. So, in you very short sighted view, tourists equates to Burma gangs and problems. And "easy visa" causes illegal workers (that many Thai greatly exploit every day).

Thank you for sharing your point of view, That is a good chance for readers hereto note what is the perception of some Thai people (you are certainly not alone in your opinions) when it comes to foreigners.

[gavin hawaii]

This is why forum members who know Thailand laughed when Los pushed a big campaign to make it a family destination. It is way to corrupt for families to feel safe. Even we who come here often know that you have to be very careful and respectful of Thai people. Even when you are not wrong you have to know how to handle things and when to back off. If you feel yourself getting really drunk go back to the hotel and drink there or really close by so you can make it back safely. Better yet get to know the bell boys and security at the hotel and call the hotel to see if they can send someone to bring you back to the hotel. If you are close by they know where it is and they most likely accomodate your request. Hint tip Hotel employees and they will appreciate it and remember you. Something as little as 40-100 baht can go a long way. But be wary, dont trust everyone and watch how you conduct yourself. We all have a bit of money at times but dont flaunt it. Be safe and have fun.

[mok199]

the biggest problems happen in any form of ''transportation'',taxi,powerboats,buses,mini vans... ''opportunists'',all will take advantage of any opportunity to extort ,some watch and wait for it.... the others ''create it''....i know i have been drungged and robbed and beat up and robbed and snatched from...but nothing burns me more than a slippery taxi driver...

[coma]

I have noticed a definate rise in violent crime towards foriegners in my area in Northern Thailand. Especially since the GFC crisis. Mostly Thais robbing farangs and using force to do so. Sometimes extreme force. I never used to be a supporter of people carrying weapons around on thier person but now I have changed that view. Now I never go out at night on foot without my little life insurance policy by my side.Strictly for defensive purposes of course.

I always carry my little life insurance attached to my belt when I am in the UK. But no need for it here in Thailand in my experience, but again, I have never been to the islands, mostly Bangkok, and I still say Thailand is a safe place for travelling if you stay sober and mind your own business.

Tell that to Michelle Smith. And to many other sober people minding thier own business in Thailand that all of a sudden found themselves the victim of some Thai looking for a quick buck.

[mok199]

..land of denials....

[gavin hawaii]

This article shows why members of this forum laughed when Thailand announced awhile back that they were making a big push to make it a family destination. It is obvious it will not happen the way they are doing it. The place is too corrupt and therefor unsafe for families. It is unsafe for anyone who does not take precautions here. Forum members have advised that be respectful of Thais and even if you are not in the wrong know how to conduct yourself and when to back off. If you are feel yourself getting really drunk go back to the hotel and drink there or very close by so you can call the hotel and ask them to bring you back to the hotel. If you are very close by they know where it is and most likely will accommodate your request. Get to know the hotel receptionists, bell boys and security.Tip them initially and occasionally. 50-100 bht will go a long way. But most of all be wary, dont flaunt your money and try to be humble and not loud spoken or yelling. Be safe and have fun. This forum will also keep you up to date on all the scams or possible scams going on.

Edited July 20, 2013 by gavin hawaii

[elzach]

I don't know a single American other than me who has ever vacationed in Thailand. The discussions come down to danger and filth.

To be fair, it is a very long trip and there are other much closer places with great weather and even bar girls if that's of interest.

I realize that there are American expats in Thailand, but my unscientific observation is that they are far outnumbered by Europeans and Australians. I'm not sure that most European tourists are big spenders either, although they will certainly outspend the Chinese.

As for Thailand trying to attract the low spending Chinese, IMHO they are making a mistake. I spent all of April touring Isaan and I spent 30,000k on a car rental alone, not counting gas. I stayed in hotels and ate in restaurants and spent money like a real tourist.

I truly didn't add up the cost, but with airfare it was a major amount compared to a backpacker or a Chinese tour. Thailand is blowing it. They say they want higher end tourists, and then they offer filth, scams, corruption, danger, and all else that would drive them away.

Sorry, you couldn't be more wrong. The Chinese tourists are right now the biggest spenders, anywhere. Why do you think Europe and the US go head over heels happily issuing visas to them?

Do you know of any other ethnic group that travels to a foreign country with the main objective being SHOPPING?

Think about this, Thailand wouldn't care at all if 2-3 million westerners didn't come, as long as they can replace them with Chinese.

Thailand doesn't care where foreigners come from as long as they spend. Chinese visitors are just starting to arrive in large numbers and their impact will be felt here in both positive and negative ways quite soon (many Thais in the tourism industry, particularly up in Chiang Mai are already experiencing these things). Chinese mostly go to places like Naraya, to buy nice but relatively cheap bags in a department store, where the chance of rip-offs are next to zero. They might also visit a local tourist market such as the night bazaar in Chiang Mai, but few of them would really go around independently off the beaten track and so therefore, their experiences are more limited than those of the Japanese, westerners and others who have been traveling to Thailand for eons.

I don't think that Europe or the USA would go "head over heels" to issue Chinese visitors with tourist visas. Generally speaking, each Chinese visitor is a potential immigrant and the only way most Chinese can visit these countries is by signing up for a tour, which means they are almost guaranteed to depart at the end of their stays. I have lived in China and know how hard it is for Chinese to visit most countries, particularly those in the west - don't make up some nonsense statement please.

Top tourist spenders overseas: Chinese

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/04/04/us-china-tourism-spending-idUSBRE9330TJ20130404

Top duty-free spenders in Thailand: Chinese

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/business/Thai-duty-free-spending-jumps-38-in-first-quarter-30205777.html

So as you can imagine, these are not on tours or night markets, these are on top designer bags, perfume etc.

Hey man, no offense, but the numbers from China have changed drastically the last few years.

So the point is, does Thailand like these numbers? you bet, for now.

[crazydrummerpauly]

PHUKET, July 19, 2013 (AFP) - From jet ski scams to robbery, assault and even police extortion, for the millions of tourists who flock to Thailand each year the kingdom does not always live up to its reputation as the "Land of Smiles".

I totally disagree with this statement. Because the jet ski scams, robbery's, assaults and police extortion are all done with a smile, so it is a "Land of Smiles" even when you are being robbed, scammed or extorted

That's a factually untrue comment, no matter how clever it looks at first. Scams are normally carried out with menace and threatening gestures, not smiles. Check this one video to get the idea -

[paz]

This is why forum members who know Thailand laughed when Los pushed a big campaign to make it a family destination. It is way to corrupt for families to feel safe. Even we who come here often know that you have to be very careful and respectful of Thai people. Even when you are not wrong you have to know how to handle things and when to back off. If you feel yourself getting really drunk go back to the hotel and drink there or really close by so you can make it back safely. Better yet get to know the bell boys and security at the hotel and call the hotel to see if they can send someone to bring you back to the hotel. If you are close by they know where it is and they most likely accomodate your request. Hint tip Hotel employees and they will appreciate it and remember you. Something as little as 40-100 baht can go a long way. But be wary, dont trust everyone and watch how you conduct yourself. We all have a bit of money at times but dont flaunt it. Be safe and have fun.

Thanks for the advice Nanny. I got news for you, not everyone drinks, not everyone is staying in hotels with bellboys, and not everyone gets robbed and you infer will happen.

[gavin hawaii]

This is why forum members who know Thailand laughed when Los pushed a big campaign to make it a family destination. It is way to corrupt for families to feel safe. Even we who come here often know that you have to be very careful and respectful of Thai people. Even when you are not wrong you have to know how to handle things and when to back off. If you feel yourself getting really drunk go back to the hotel and drink there or really close by so you can make it back safely. Better yet get to know the bell boys and security at the hotel and call the hotel to see if they can send someone to bring you back to the hotel. If you are close by they know where it is and they most likely accomodate your request. Hint tip Hotel employees and they will appreciate it and remember you. Something as little as 40-100 baht can go a long way. But be wary, dont trust everyone and watch how you conduct yourself. We all have a bit of money at times but dont flaunt it. Be safe and have fun.

Thanks for the advice Nanny. I got news for you, not everyone drinks, not everyone is staying in hotels with bellboys, and not everyone gets robbed and you infer will happen.

[mikemac]

Thailand should learn from Vietnam. Many years ago when Vietnam opened it's doors to tourists the government was smart enough to see there was money to be made, not only for the government itself but the suits who run it.

There was a case in Hanoi when a European lady stepped out on the street and was struck by a vehicle, the lady died as a result and the Vietnamese driver was given the death penalty. The people who ran the hotel where I stayed in Hanoi said they remembered that happening.

Hanoi was one of the safest places I ever visited. Saigon was not quite so warm and cozy.

[NoshowJones]

I have noticed a definate rise in violent crime towards foriegners in my area in Northern Thailand. Especially since the GFC crisis. Mostly Thais robbing farangs and using force to do so. Sometimes extreme force. I never used to be a supporter of people carrying weapons around on thier person but now I have changed that view. Now I never go out at night on foot without my little life insurance policy by my side.Strictly for defensive purposes of course.

I always carry my little life insurance attached to my belt when I am in the UK. But no need for it here in Thailand in my experience, but again, I have never been to the islands, mostly Bangkok, and I still say Thailand is a safe place for travelling if you stay sober and mind your own business.

Tell that to Michelle Smith. And to many other sober people minding thier own business in Thailand that all of a sudden found themselves the victim of some Thai looking for a quick buck.

I am only giving my experiences, did what happen to Michelle Smith not happen in one of the Islands? There are bad people in every country, and like I said, I have never been to the Islands. I have already said in other posts that 99.9% of the time if you stay sober and mind your own business, Thailand is a safe country to be in.

[ginjag]

I have noticed a definate rise in violent crime towards foriegners in my area in Northern Thailand. Especially since the GFC crisis. Mostly Thais robbing farangs and using force to do so. Sometimes extreme force. I never used to be a supporter of people carrying weapons around on thier person but now I have changed that view. Now I never go out at night on foot without my little life insurance policy by my side.Strictly for defensive purposes of course.

I always carry my little life insurance attached to my belt when I am in the UK. But no need for it here in Thailand in my experience, but again, I have never been to the islands, mostly Bangkok, and I still say Thailand is a safe place for travelling if you stay sober and mind your own business.

Tell that to Michelle Smith. And to many other sober people minding thier own business in Thailand that all of a sudden found themselves the victim of some Thai looking for a quick buck.

I am only giving my experiences, did what happen to Michelle Smith not happen in one of the Islands? There are bad people in every country, and like I said, I have never been to the Islands. I have already said in other posts that 99.9% of the time if you stay sober and mind your own business, Thailand is a safe country to be in.

If you stay sober and M-Y-O-business you have less chance of being a victim. it's great-sure BUT NOT Safe.

[paz]

Reading that article, it makes you wonder why any tourists come at all.....

Most tourists only read the tourist brochures with pictures of white beaches, night clubs and smiling thai people, when they arrive and get ripped off by the taxi driver, robbed in the hotel and threatened by the jet-ski mafia it's already to late to get a refund on the tour, but will they ever come back again?

And you think that would make any difference to that Thailand? Beside, robbed in the hotel is unheard off. Thailand is not Nigeria. Stop whining and move on.

If you could just pull your head out the sand for a moment, you might like to read this http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/612589-receptionist-drugged-hotel-robbed-by-foreigner-in-phuket/

I lived in Phuket (on-and-off) almost two years. I did read the news everyday and I'm interestd in crime and safety.

Conclusion? Crime is everywhere and Thailand / Phuket is still safer than other places.

The old piece of news you posted is insignificant, the perp being a foreigner makes it totally irrelevant,

Anyway, If you don't like here or don't feel safe, for God's sake, just leave.

Edited July 20, 2013 by paz

[paz]

Thailand should learn from Vietnam. Many years ago when Vietnam opened it's doors to tourists the government was smart enough to see there was money to be made, not only for the government itself but the suits who run it.

There was a case in Hanoi when a European lady stepped out on the street and was struck by a vehicle, the lady died as a result and the Vietnamese driver was given the death penalty. The people who ran the hotel where I stayed in Hanoi said they remembered that happening.

Hanoi was one of the safest places I ever visited. Saigon was not quite so warm and cozy.

So we shuld praise Vietnam for that? Shame on you if you think so.

Edited July 20, 2013 by paz

[paz]

If you stay sober and M-Y-O-business you have less chance of being a victim. it's great-sure BUT NOT Safe.

Name a safe country please ?

[spidermike007]

 

It's getting worse and no one wants to take responsibility or ownership. In 10 years from now Thai tourism will consist of little more than loud arrogant badly dressed chinese tour groups, Russian criminals and great swathes of Indian men getting beaten up or ripped off in Pattaya and Patong.

Oh Thailand, think of what you could have been.

 

There is not a single person in the Thai government with any level of vision, or compassion. Nobody is doing ANYTHING. So, these problems mount, and what gets done other than lip service? The solution to some of these problems is arrests, trials, and convictions. There is a sense of absolute impunity on the part of the thieves, killers, bag snatchers, jet ski scam artists, tuk tuk thugs, etc. Nothing gets done. Nobody serves jail time. The police are incompetent or just do not care. The judiciary is impotent and corrupt. So, who do you change things when society is so broken?

[metisdead]

A post in violation of this forum rule has been removed:

3) Not to post in a manner that is vulgar, obscene or profane.

[mrfill]

To tackle it effectively would mean first admission that it is a real problem and you are not going to get that in Thailand.. at least not at the government levels which would be required to get suitable remedial action.

As Myanmar opens up it will start to steal tourists from Thailand.. it has hundreds of great beach destination islands and Myanmar seems to be very carefully developing these.

If within the next few years tourism starts to swing Myanmar's way then this will be a further nail in the coffin for Thailand tourism as in typical fashion the blame will be levelled by Thailand at Myanmar rather than fact that tourists can get similar beach / island vacation experience without the personal danger both to oneself and one's wallet that Thailand is so becoming known for.

Some may have read that the Tourism minister said tourist numbers would be up next year... maybe but you have to look at where that growth is coming from and what it brings to the economy... huge increases in Russian and Chines tourists who fly in on their national carriers and prepay hotels back at home and eat with vouchers at their nominated hotels or restaurants ( some , maybe allot, of which are owned by Russian and Chinese interest) add very little to the overall economy compared to typical European, North American and Australian tourists. These tourists who add more to the Thai economy per head than the masses of Russian and Chinese are also more discerning and will look for safer and better experiences.

Thailand does need to tackle the dark side and straight away if it is to retain a strong and profitable tourist economy.. otherwise it will become truly just the walking street of SE Asia. To do so however will require an admission now that all is not well and that I fear you will not get from the powers that be in Thailand.

I agree...and Myanmar HAS opened up. It's nice there...for now.

Myanmar is lovely but has quite a long way to go to even get near Thailand for cheap hotels, a working phone system and plentiful internal transport.

To get some measure of how far behind.... The ATM at Yangon airport was the first one in the country to work with international Visa cards. It was installed December 2012. There are not many bars/restaurants (and they close early anyway) and generally, the place is not suitable for western tourist packages yet. Its probably about where Thailand was 25 years ago.

[justathought]

It's getting worse and no one wants to take responsibility or ownership. In 10 years from now Thai tourism will consist of little more than loud arrogant badly dressed chinese tour groups, Russian criminals and great swathes of Indian men getting beaten up or ripped off in Pattaya and Patong.

Oh Thailand, think of what you could have been.

yes, you could have old fat farlang men looking for little boys ... but now Thailand has to settle for Chinese & Indians .. what a lost

[Time Traveller]

Reading that article, it makes you wonder why any tourists come at all.....

Every country has it's crime, tourists accept those risks. But the story about Elodie Triche and family's treatment by Phuket immigration and courts is outrageous and shows that Thai immigration themselves are criminals. Good luck to anyone thinking the law will protect them in thailand.

[Kananga]

Most tourists only read the tourist brochures with pictures of white beaches, night clubs and smiling thai people, when they arrive and get ripped off by the taxi driver, robbed in the hotel and threatened by the jet-ski mafia it's already to late to get a refund on the tour, but will they ever come back again?

And you think that would make any difference to that Thailand? Beside, robbed in the hotel is unheard off. Thailand is not Nigeria. Stop whining and move on.

If you could just pull your head out the sand for a moment, you might like to read this http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/612589-receptionist-drugged-hotel-robbed-by-foreigner-in-phuket/

I lived in Phuket (on-and-off) almost two years. I did read the news everyday and I'm interestd in crime and safety.

Conclusion? Crime is everywhere and Thailand / Phuket is still safer than other places.

The old piece of news you posted is insignificant, the perp being a foreigner makes it totally irrelevant,

Anyway, If you don't like here or don't feel safe, for God's sake, just leave.

Why would it being a foreigner make it irrelevant? The topic is safety and crime when visiting Thailand. The fact he was a foreigner is irrelevant, the fact that people were ROBBED in their hotel in THAILAND is very relevant. So next time you want to say being robbed in your hotel is unheard of, you can remember where you heard it first.

As for leaving, who said I either feel safe or am even in Thailand? I don't like hearing stories about hotels being robbed. Should all people who dont like criminal activity in Thailand leave too? Why don't you just leave this forum if you dont like other opinions. Practice what you preach as they say.

[Kananga]

If you stay sober and M-Y-O-business you have less chance of being a victim. it's great-sure BUT NOT Safe.

Name a safe country please ?

Singapore

[super22k]

Just for the record. Thailand gets appx. 11 million tourists a year. Very low internationaly.France tops the list with 59 million a year followed by the USA,China,Spain Italy,UK etc. All millions and millions above Thailand.

In fact,even in Asia,Thailand only comes fourth behind China,Malaysia and Hong Kong.Check it out on Google search if you doubt this.The Chinese and Koreans are keeping the 11,million constant as the western figures dwindle.

Apart from the above,when these criminals are are given prison sentences is there any check on whether they actualy serve the full term, because there have been a few cases reported where they have been let out for "personal reasons" whatever that means.

[wwest5829]

OMG !!!! This is what myself and some TV posters have been talking about for many years ..... How refreshing to see these points of views being aired in the national media. Wait, does this mean the writer will have to go back to his home country if he points out these problems here ??

Funny to see Phuket pointed as a problem area. Guess mafia control of the island is not going so well. They have managed to well and truly kill the golden goose, as many people have predicted . And the mafia there will learn another valuable lesson, which is once you develop a bad reputation it is almost impossible to fix it. The jet ski scam, which is always pointed out in articles like this one, could be stopped in one day if the government chose to do so. Instead they are in it up to their necks, which makes their statements about stopping the scam even more humorous.. Stopping lady boys drugging customers will be a bit more difficult. :-)

While I applaud any official foreign government efforts to address these issues, I think our Thai friends should be made very much aware of your point of earning a bad reputation. While I have chosen to live here, I will not be going to Phuket due to its poor reputation. Further, when talking to foreign friends, I will be pointing them to read about Phuket's poor reputation. As to an earlier comment by another poster stating the need for repeat tourism, I can only say, from my observation, that many of my countrymen go to as many different countries as possible. Thus, I see the greater threat for Thai tourism in not attracting new first time visitors due to a poor reputation.

[Thai at Heart]

Reading that article, it makes you wonder why any tourists come at all.....

Most tourists only read the tourist brochures with pictures of white beaches, night clubs and smiling thai people, when they arrive and get ripped off by the taxi driver, robbed in the hotel and threatened by the jet-ski mafia it's already to late to get a refund on the tour, but will they ever come back again?

What a let down it must all be....

[Thai at Heart]

Thailand uses the roadside diner business model. Here is how it works.

A diner is located on a very busy highway. A tourist stops there to eat. It is the worst meal he has ever had, and he tells waitress that as he flings the bill money down with no tip, and storms out to his car. The waitress smiles, picks up the money, and a minute later another customer is sitting down ordering food....

This has worked very well for Thailand for many years, and is the cornerstone of why the endless scams have never been addressed. The gem scam has gone

on for many many years, has been profiled on international media, and yet the government has done exactly.....nothing. Why ???? They just do not care, as the next day another plane load of tourists will show up ready to be fleeced. And also too much money to be made.

Thailand will do something about the scams when and ONLY when the tourist number start dropping. A bit like Phuket moving into panic mode as tourism drops off due to the endless scams there. So sadly as long as planes full of Chinese tourist keep arriving so Yingluck can boast about increasing tourism numbers, NOTHING will be done about the scams.

As Thailand has chosen to do nothing about these scams, the next logical step is for the countries whose citizens are being scammed to do something. This could be in the form of warnings, or something even stronger. This would be a major loss of face for Thailand, when inbound airlines to Thailand are screening videos detailing scams to be aware of here. Personally I suggest that the best avenue would be for Thailand to actually do something on their own.

How far can a rubber band stretch. Eventually it will snap.