'Trayvon Martin could have been me' - Barack Obama

[metisdead]

Several "off topic" nonsense posts have been removed. Time for some of you to move along if there is nothing else to contribute to this topic.

[SteeleJoe]

That murderer Zimmerman has been at it again...

Zimmerman was one of two men who came to the aid of a family of four -- two parents and two children -- trapped inside a blue Ford Explorer SUV that had rolled over after traveling off the highway in Sanford, Fla. at approximately 5:45 p.m. Thursday, the Seminole County Sheriff's Office said in a statement.

From here: http://abcnews.go.com/US/george-zimmerman-emerged-hiding-truck-crash-rescue/story?id=19735432

No doubt this was all set up just so he could look good.

(And for those who don't know me or lack the ability to spot sarcasm... YES, this was an attempt at sarcasm.)

Well, that settles it! Clearly he was not guilty of any wrongdoing against Trayvon Martin...

(And for those who don't know me or lack the ability to spot sarcasm... YES, this was an attempt at sarcasm.)

[SteeleJoe]

Someone already addressed this absurdity so this thread is very old.

Zimmerman called 911 to talk about the weather?!

Take that sack of sh*t somewhere else to try to sell it, and to someone else.

Stupid strawman. No one claimed the purpose of the call was to make that comment - which you know full well.

Using your (lack of) logic, he called 911 in order to voice a racial slur.

[F430murci]

This thread is old, tired, worn, repetitive, redundant, long past its prime.

Almost all of you have said your piece 40 times over..........and over.......and over..........again.......and again.............................and..............again.

Have you any sense of time or of proportion, or of degree?

Why do you have to repeat yourselves 40 times over, and to one another........there aren't any new posters to this thread. It's the same tired old gang who keep banging away the same old points against the same posters.

Give up the ghost.

My god.

Yes. Lead the way!

F430murci has gone slap happy. Izzhe still with us? Or did the men in the white coats have to come to take him away?? That can happen when spending too much time at one same thread saying the same thing over and over again, repeatedly, endlessly, to or with the same people.

Just curious 'cause I'm finished at this thread. I came back a short while ago to look in on the zany repetitive posts by the same people to the same people saying the same things............endlessly.

The glee and joy among those who like the jury verdict is self embarrassing.

Juror B37 needs to be investigated for juror misconduct, but the authorities in Florida are biased, indifferent, heartless. So Juror B37 goes free too. Quite a state there, Florida. Shoot first and maybe ask a few nothing questions later.

There coming to take me away aye aye, but they ain't got here yet!

[Scott]

Troll post and reply deleted. Please keep it civil.

[kikoman]

On Zimmerman My Space page of 2005, as reported by the Miami Herald on May 3, 2012 stated:

"I don't miss driving around scared to hit Mexicans walking on the side of the street, soft ass wanna be thugs messing with people cars when they ain't around (what are you proving that you can dent a car when no one is watching) don]t make you a man in my book. Working 96 hours to get a decent pay check, getting a knife pulled on you by every Mexican you run in to".

This also places Zimmerman in the racists category.

Cheers:

Edited July 23, 2013 by kikoman

[Ulysses G.]

On Zimmerman My Space page of 2005, as reported by the Miami Herald on May 3, 2012 stated:

"I don't miss driving around scared to hit Mexicans walking on the side of the street, soft ass wanna be thugs messing with people cars when they ain't around (what are you proving that you can dent a car when no one is watching) don]t make you a man in my book. Working 96 hours to get a decent pay check, getting a knife pulled on you by every Mexican you run in to".

This also places Zimmerman in the racists category.

Cheers:

It seems that somehow, you missed this part of the article.

"On the MySpace page, Zimmerman identified himself as ethnically “Latino/Hispanic.” He also posted photos of himself hanging out with friends of other races, including some who are black."

[JLCrab]

On Zimmerman My Space page of 2005, as reported by the Miami Herald on May 3, 2012 stated:

"I don't miss driving around scared to hit Mexicans walking on the side of the street, soft ass wanna be thugs messing with people cars when they ain't around (what are you proving that you can dent a car when no one is watching) don]t make you a man in my book. Working 96 hours to get a decent pay check, getting a knife pulled on you by every Mexican you run in to".

This also places Zimmerman in the racists category.

Cheers:

So what this shows at best is that in 2005 when he was 21 years old GZ made some comments about Mexicans. I don't know if the FBI reads The Miami Herald but as noted this was published in May 2012 -- as of July 2012 the FBI was still conducting interviews in its investigation: "FBI records: agents found no evidence that Zimmerman was racist". The Miami Herald. July 12, 2012.

[kikoman]

There were question about what Zimmerman said or did not say, but to say what he said was "xxxxcold" had never been in Florida.

As people have been very fast to disallow what the girl talking on the phone with him, testimony every one has picked up as gospel that one item from her testimony "Creepy ass Cracka", Juror B37 said on national TV that she was Inadequate, lacking in communication skills and uneducated and that she disregarded her complete testimony except for creepy ass cracka, as she belied that was something Trayvon would say.!

A juror is free to judge a persons testimony and except those that had merit and reject those that do not she did not do that, as she disregarded her testimony base on her looks.

Every race has a name for members of another race Anglo refer to blacks as "coons" and blacks refer to Anglo as "Cracka".

But Trayvon did not say it to anyone but the girl, if he said it at all!

Cheers:

[Scott]

Off-topic posts deleted.

[JLCrab]

I lived in Central Florida for almost 20 years and to assume one might go out on a cold rainy windy night in February without adequate clothing and without expecting to be roaming out side for an extended period of time (as GZ was planning on just heading to the grocery store) and NOT say it is <deleted> COLD is ridiculous.

Edited July 23, 2013 by JLCrab

[Scott]

The discussion of goon or coon is finished. It is not going anywhere.

Further off-topic discussion will get you a warning.

[SteeleJoe]

On Zimmerman My Space page of 2005, as reported by the Miami Herald on May 3, 2012 stated:

"I don't miss driving around scared to hit Mexicans walking on the side of the street, soft ass wanna be thugs messing with people cars when they ain't around (what are you proving that you can dent a car when no one is watching) don]t make you a man in my book. Working 96 hours to get a decent pay check, getting a knife pulled on you by every Mexican you run in to".

This also places Zimmerman in the racists category.

Cheers:

So what this shows at best is that in 2005 when he was 21 years old GZ made some comments about Mexicans. I don't know if the FBI reads The Miami Herald but as noted this was published in May 2012 -- as of July 2012 the FBI was still conducting interviews in its investigation: "FBI records: agents found no evidence that Zimmerman was racist". The Miami Herald. July 12, 2012.

Despite the headline, what the report said that they found no evidence that racism was an element as motive for the shooting - they made no comment about whether or not he was a racist.

[JetsetBkk]

That murderer Zimmerman has been at it again...

Zimmerman was one of two men who came to the aid of a family of four -- two parents and two children -- trapped inside a blue Ford Explorer SUV that had rolled over after traveling off the highway in Sanford, Fla. at approximately 5:45 p.m. Thursday, the Seminole County Sheriff's Office said in a statement.

From here: http://abcnews.go.com/US/george-zimmerman-emerged-hiding-truck-crash-rescue/story?id=19735432

No doubt this was all set up just so he could look good.

(And for those who don't know me or lack the ability to spot sarcasm... YES, this was an attempt at sarcasm.)

Well, that settles it! Clearly he was not guilty of any wrongdoing against Trayvon Martin...

(And for those who don't know me or lack the ability to spot sarcasm... YES, this was an attempt at sarcasm.)

Oy!! Stop pinching my lines.

[mopar71]

People have commented to the fact that the GZ Trial jury contained 6 women all but one (possibly) white. Seminole County has a population of roughly 430,000 of which in 2012 81% are listed as 'White alone'. The jury was chosen according to The Florida Rules of Criminal Procedure at random from a list of eligible Seminole county citizens county wide -- not just in Sanford which tends to have a higher non-whit only population.

As to gender, someone in Florida is considered to be Male or Female; only in Thailand when asking for gender do they give boxes to tick: Male, Female, Other.

I was talking to a non-American friend the other day who was outraged at the jury make-up. Then someone told him that the prosecution and defense both pick, reject, and approve of the jury and the response was more of a sheepish "oh, never mind then". There is a lot of misinformation out there that gets people too emotional. Thinking some racist entity chose an "all white" jury to stack the odds against a black Martin is just one of them.

[JetsetBkk]

People have commented to the fact that the GZ Trial jury contained 6 women all but one (possibly) white. Seminole County has a population of roughly 430,000 of which in 2012 81% are listed as 'White alone'. The jury was chosen according to The Florida Rules of Criminal Procedure at random from a list of eligible Seminole county citizens county wide -- not just in Sanford which tends to have a higher non-whit only population.

As to gender, someone in Florida is considered to be Male or Female; only in Thailand when asking for gender do they give boxes to tick: Male, Female, Other.

I was talking to a non-American friend the other day who was outraged at the jury make-up. Then someone told him that the prosecution and defense both pick, reject, and approve of the jury and the response was more of a sheepish "oh, never mind then". There is a lot of misinformation out there that gets people too emotional. Thinking some racist entity chose an "all white" jury to stack the odds against a black Martin is just one of them.

Why weren't there any black jurors? I thought the prosecution and defence could object to a number of jurors, so why didn't the prosecution object to some of these white women?

[JetsetBkk]

On Zimmerman My Space page of 2005, as reported by the Miami Herald on May 3, 2012 stated:

"I don't miss driving around scared to hit Mexicans walking on the side of the street, soft ass wanna be thugs messing with people cars when they ain't around (what are you proving that you can dent a car when no one is watching) don]t make you a man in my book. Working 96 hours to get a decent pay check, getting a knife pulled on you by every Mexican you run in to".

This also places Zimmerman in the racists category.

Cheers:

It seems that somehow, you missed this part of the article.

"On the MySpace page, Zimmerman identified himself as ethnically Latino/Hispanic. He also posted photos of himself hanging out with friends of other races, including some who are black."

Thanks for bringing that article to everyone's attention, kikoman. Pity about the photo of Zimmerman with his mates, though - kind of ruined the point you were trying to make.

Edited July 23, 2013 by Scott

[F430murci]

People have commented to the fact that the GZ Trial jury contained 6 women all but one (possibly) white. Seminole County has a population of roughly 430,000 of which in 2012 81% are listed as 'White alone'. The jury was chosen according to The Florida Rules of Criminal Procedure at random from a list of eligible Seminole county citizens county wide -- not just in Sanford which tends to have a higher non-whit only population.

As to gender, someone in Florida is considered to be Male or Female; only in Thailand when asking for gender do they give boxes to tick: Male, Female, Other.

I was talking to a non-American friend the other day who was outraged at the jury make-up. Then someone told him that the prosecution and defense both pick, reject, and approve of the jury and the response was more of a sheepish "oh, never mind then". There is a lot of misinformation out there that gets people too emotional. Thinking some racist entity chose an "all white" jury to stack the odds against a black Martin is just one of them.

Why weren't there any black jurors? I thought the prosecution and defence could object to a number of jurors, so why didn't the prosecution object to some of these white women?

I think they wanted. Women are less aggressive and would have less likely agreed with stand your ground if that was an issue and 5 were mothers. Prosecution wanted them to identify with loss if a child.

I don't disagree with the thought process. The problem was the evidence not the jury.

[mopar71]

http://spectator.org/archives/2013/07/22/feeling-the-heat

" If Obama had been Martin, he would have talked Zimmerman out of his watch and his wallet and then gotten a scholarship to college for writing about it."

Edited July 23, 2013 by mopar71

[JLCrab]

On Zimmerman My Space page of 2005, as reported by the Miami Herald on May 3, 2012 stated:

"I don't miss driving around scared to hit Mexicans walking on the side of the street, soft ass wanna be thugs messing with people cars when they ain't around (what are you proving that you can dent a car when no one is watching) don]t make you a man in my book. Working 96 hours to get a decent pay check, getting a knife pulled on you by every Mexican you run in to".

This also places Zimmerman in the racists category.

Cheers:

So what this shows at best is that in 2005 when he was 21 years old GZ made some comments about Mexicans. I don't know if the FBI reads The Miami Herald but as noted this was published in May 2012 -- as of July 2012 the FBI was still conducting interviews in its investigation: "FBI records: agents found no evidence that Zimmerman was racist". The Miami Herald. July 12, 2012.

Despite the headline, what the report said that they found no evidence that racism was an element as motive for the shooting - they made no comment about whether or not he was a racist.

This is what the 7 JULY 2012 Miami Herald article actually said:

After interviewing nearly three dozen people — including gun dealers, Zimmerman’s former fiancé, co-workers and neighbors — the FBI found no evidence that racial bias was a motivating factor in the shooting, the records show. It’s unclear whether more interview transcripts remain to be released.

If The FBI were interviewing co-workers and neighbors, etc., they were trying to determine personality characteristics and a profile in general and not specifically what happened on the night of the incident.

Read more here: http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/07/12/2892510_p2/detective-in-zimmerman-case-said.html#storylink=cpy

[SteeleJoe]

On Zimmerman My Space page of 2005, as reported by the Miami Herald on May 3, 2012 stated:

"I don't miss driving around scared to hit Mexicans walking on the side of the street, soft ass wanna be thugs messing with people cars when they ain't around (what are you proving that you can dent a car when no one is watching) don]t make you a man in my book. Working 96 hours to get a decent pay check, getting a knife pulled on you by every Mexican you run in to".

This also places Zimmerman in the racists category.

Cheers:

So what this shows at best is that in 2005 when he was 21 years old GZ made some comments about Mexicans. I don't know if the FBI reads The Miami Herald but as noted this was published in May 2012 -- as of July 2012 the FBI was still conducting interviews in its investigation: "FBI records: agents found no evidence that Zimmerman was racist". The Miami Herald. July 12, 2012.

Despite the headline, what the report said that they found no evidence that racism was an element as motive for the shooting - they made no comment about whether or not he was a racist.

This is what the 7 JULY 2012 Miami Herald article actually said:

After interviewing nearly three dozen people — including gun dealers, Zimmerman’s former fiancé, co-workers and neighbors — the FBI found no evidence that racial bias was a motivating factor in the shooting, the records show. It’s unclear whether more interview transcripts remain to be released.

If The FBI were interviewing co-workers and neighbors, etc., they were trying to determine personality characteristics and a profile in general and not specifically what happened on the night of the incident.

Read more here: http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/07/12/2892510_p2/detective-in-zimmerman-case-said.html#storylink=cpy

Right. Which is different from saying there was no evidence that he was a racist (and I'm not suggesting he is - just that we don't know and the FBI never commented on it or even a lack of evidence for it).

One can be the Imperial Wizard of the Ku Klux Klan and still kill a black person for no reason other than self defense, so the ruling of the FBI is in regards to what is relevant and not a comment on the unknowable.

By the way, the linked article does not say this, does it?

"FBI records: agents found no evidence that Zimmerman was racist"

[kikoman]

Florida's standard jury instruction 3.6(f) Justifiable Use of Force,instructs the jury when they "consider an issue of self defense they may take into account the relative physical abilities and capacities of the defendant and the victim".

George Zimmerman 5'8" tall weight 200 lbs

1 year intensive MMA Training

Bouncer training for employment

Trayvon Martin 5' 11" tall weight 158 lbs

Street fighter

Moreover, the Florida Supreme Court has indicated in dicta that specialized training (such as Martial) is relevant evidence notwithstanding its also evidence of bad character traits, Trease v. State, 768 s So. 26 1050 (Fla. 2000).

Cheers:

Edited July 23, 2013 by kikoman

[JLCrab]

So again why were the FBI investigators interviewing his co-workers and fiance etc. who to the best of my knowledge were not on the scene that 26 February 2012 7 PM at Retreat at Twin Lakes other than to establish a general profile?

BTW that was the previous headline in the Miami herald article as was contained and linked to in the Wikipedia article on this case Footnote 207. as retrieved 16 JULY 2012

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shooting_of_Trayvon_Martin

[JLCrab]

Florida's standard jury instruction 3.6(f) Justifiable Use of Force,instructs the jury when they "consider an issue of self defense they may take into account the relative physical abilities and capacities of the defendant and the victim".

George Zimmerman 5'8" tall weight 200 lbs

1 year intensive MMA Training

Bouncer training for employment

Trayvon Martin 5' 11" tall weight 158 lbs

Street fighter

Moreover, the Florida Supreme Court has indicated in dicta that specialized training (such as Martial) is relevant evidence notwithstanding its also evidence of bad character traits, Trease v. State, 768 s So. 26 1050 (Fla. 2000).

Cheers:

That's a good one -- maybe the prosecution or the court never considered that -- Mulligan! let's do the whole thing over again.

As best as I can tell, with whatever time I have spent reading this case, no one anywhere has suggested -- whatever intense verbal exchanges might have taken place prior -- that it was not Trayvon Martin who threw the first punch and that seems to be a large part of whatever 'self defense' issues were involved in this case.

Skoal!

Edited July 23, 2013 by JLCrab

[gl555]

You're repeating the same 'evidence' about George Zimmerman's MMA training which has been replied to countless times.

Once again, Zimmerman's MMA instructor testified in court that Zimmerman was 'not athletic', 'soft' and whose fighting skill was '1-1.5 out of 10'.

Keep posting the same stuff, I'll just keep replying the same.

Florida's standard jury instruction 3.6(f) Justifiable Use of Force,instructs the jury when they "consider an issue of self defense they may take into account the relative physical abilities and capacities of the defendant and the victim".

George Zimmerman 5'8" tall weight 200 lbs

1 year intensive MMA Training

Bouncer training for employment

Trayvon Martin 5' 11" tall weight 158 lbs

Street fighter

Moreover, the Florida Supreme Court has indicated in dicta that specialized training (such as Martial) is relevant evidence notwithstanding its also evidence of bad character traits, Trease v. State, 768 s So. 26 1050 (Fla. 2000).

Cheers:

[SteeleJoe]

So again why were the FBI investigators interviewing his co-workers and fiance etc. who to the best of my knowledge were not on the scene that 26 February 2012 7 PM at Retreat at Twin Lakes other than to establish a general profile?

BTW that was the previous headline in the Miami herald article as was contained and linked to in the Wikipedia article on this case Footnote 207. as retrieved 16 JULY 2012

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shooting_of_Trayvon_Martin

Did you read the article? I believe it was about a possible civil rights charge. In such a case, I believe that racism being a motivating factor would be relevant. There is no law against being a racist but there is one against "hate crimes" etc.

I have not claimed they were or were not trying to establish a general profile - for all I know they may have been but it has nothing to do with me or the headline - the point is that they have not stated he is not a racist or even that there was no evidence that he is.

And there is a significant difference in saying 'we have no evidence that this man is a racist' and 'there is no evidence that this shooting happened because of race"...

Not a big deal but I see a LOT of things get twisted on both sides of this case and I think the demonizing AND the idealizing needs to stop as does any slight embellishment (conscious or not) that favors or disfavor a either side. (And this one has gained widespread acceptance - even by newspaper copywriters but that don't make it so)

Edited July 23, 2013 by SteeleJoe

[JLCrab]

So again why were the FBI investigators interviewing his co-workers and fiance etc. who to the best of my knowledge were not on the scene that 26 February 2012 7 PM at Retreat at Twin Lakes other than to establish a general profile?

BTW that was the previous headline in the Miami herald article as was contained and linked to in the Wikipedia article on this case Footnote 207. as retrieved 16 JULY 2012

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shooting_of_Trayvon_Martin

Did you read the article? I believe it was about a possible civil rights charge. In such a case, I believe that racism being a motivating factor would be relevant. There is no law against being a racist but there is one against "hate crimes" etc.

I have not claimed they were or were not trying to establish a general profile - for all I know they may have been but it has nothing to do with me or the headline - the point is that they have not stated he is not a racist or even that there was no evidence that he is.

And there is a significant difference in saying 'we have no evidence that this man is a racist' and 'there is no evidence that this shooting happened because of race"...

Not a big deal but I see a LOT of things get twisted on both sides of this case and I think the demonizing AND the idealizing needs to stop as does any slight embellishment (conscious or not) that favors or disfavor a either side.

No I didn't read the article.

[Jingthing]

I think people are falsely focusing on the irrelevant question, is Zimmerman a "racist" or not a racist.

That isn't really the point at all.

This case, like the OJ case, shed light on a continuing reality in American life.

Race is and remains an issue.

Obama tried to nudge the country into some soul searching.

Are you up to it?

If you say you are "color blind", you're clearly not.

8. Race isn’t everything, but race isn’t nothing. Conversations about cases such as this one often get bogged down in a fight between “This is about racism” and “You think everything’s about race.” Let’s drop the caricatures. Consciously or not, race influences many things: Zimmerman’s suspicions, Martin’s reactions, the police response, and the jury’s inferences. But other factors also come into play: vigilantism, concealed firearms, self-defense laws, and 911 protocols. Race isn’t the whole story. But if you leave it out, you’re kidding yourself.

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/frame_game/2013/07/racism_and_trayvon_martin_how_to_think_and_talk_constructively_after_the.2.html

Edited July 23, 2013 by Jingthing

[SteeleJoe]

I think people are falsely focusing on the irrelevant question, is Zimmerman a "racist" or not a racist.

That isn't really the point at all.

Indeed.

[kikoman]

You're repeating the same 'evidence' about George Zimmerman's MMA training which has been replied to countless times.

Once again, Zimmerman's MMA instructor testified in court that Zimmerman was 'not athletic', 'soft' and whose fighting skill was '1-1.5 out of 10'.

Keep posting the same stuff, I'll just keep replying the same.

Florida's standard jury instruction 3.6(f) Justifiable Use of Force,instructs the jury when they "consider an issue of self defense they may take into account the relative physical abilities and capacities of the defendant and the victim".

George Zimmerman 5'8" tall weight 200 lbs

1 year intensive MMA Training

Bouncer training for employment

Trayvon Martin 5' 11" tall weight 158 lbs

Street fighter

Moreover, the Florida Supreme Court has indicated in dicta that specialized training (such as Martial) is relevant evidence notwithstanding its also evidence of bad character traits, Trease v. State, 768 s So. 26 1050 (Fla. 2000).

Cheers:

Question that to the laws of Florida, Considering the Physical differences Trayvon was 3 inches taller and Zimmerman was 42 Lbs heavier, in a fight big Weight advantage for Zimmerman, If it was a Boxing match Trayvon would be a Middleweight and Zimmerman a Light Heavyweight.

Skill level, Zimmerman is a 1-1.5 10 Skilled MMA fighter

Trayvon is minus 0 10 School yard fighter

All I am saying is no matter how you look at it Zimmerman was the more skill fighter of the combatants, in MMA training you not only learn how to fight, you train on breathing properly, the majority of what you learn is based on technique, also to flow and adapt with your attacker, you are taught take downs and take down defense, mounting and how to escape from mounting..There is a lot more to combat training than just fighting.

An Average street fight last from less that a minute to about 5 minutes, so if you engage in a 100 street fight will give you 1 3/4 hours of actual fight training, In MMA training if its only an hour training sessions it

will give you !56 Hours of training.

Big Difference, Big advantage in weight and combat training

Cheers: