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[Will2011]

Hello,

As an introduction note, I know the advantages of Schwab, HSBC, etc with aeon ATMs.

What I would like to know is exchange rates with Bank of America cards. Is it low or high compared to HSBC rates?

Do we have a website that shows Bank of America exchange rates for their cards?

Thanks

[Nana Cowboy]

the credit card companies all got sued back in 2005 for ripping people off on exchange rates so nowadays you wont see large scale ripoff so you should be ok. There was a thread about the suit but best I can see all those pre 2010 threads went to the waste bin unless I'm missing an archive somewhere

Edited July 28, 2013 by Nana Cowboy

[Will2011]

I even noticed a difference between regular HSBC card and HSBC premier cards in terms of exchange rates. So I think there would be a larger discrepancy for Bank of America. That's why I want to find out before I withdraw.

[Nana Cowboy]

What I've done with B of A cards is have cash advances deposited to my USA bank account then transfer needed funds to Bangkok Bank, that way exchange rate not a factor

[Thanyaburi Mac]

Try it once to see how many baht you get for your $$$, then compare it to what you'd have received at a local bank.

For example, Friday's SCB rate was about 30.77:

http://www.scb.co.th/scb_api/

Also must factor in the baht 150 (180??) charge made by the local bank.

Mac

[Will2011]

The reason why I ask is because I don't wish to "try" but find out before. Just like when you buy a car, you exactly know how much you pay before ordering it, not after.

Perhaps exchange rates from visa/mastercard websites + 1% would be a fair indication? What do you think?

[JimGant]

Perhaps exchange rates from visa/mastercard websites + 1% would be a fair indication? What do you think?

According to the below link, it's 1% plus $5. So, BofA is just passing on the Visa/Plus 1% foreign transaction fee -- and not tacking on any additional percentage fees of their own (but that $5 isn't very enticing). And, yes, you'll be getting the Visa exchange rate of the day -- before any fees attach.

http://flyerguide.com/wiki/index.php/Credit/Debit/ATM_Cards_and_Foreign_Exchange

However, not all the data on this flyerguide link is current. In fact, the info for BofA credit cards is wrong, as at least one of their cards (Travel Rewards) has no fees, including 'eating' the Visa foreign transaction fee -- plus, it has a 1.5 % cash reward feature on all purchases.

And, as reported in other threads, even ATM cards that only charge the 1% network fee are more expensive than ACHing funds from your US bank to your Bangkok Bank account via BB NY (assuming no ACH fee from your US bank -- and BofA *does* have a $3 ACH fee, unlike many other US financial institutions).

[Will2011]

You are correct. I need to mention that I am a business BofA customer. Applying for ACH transfers would cost $10 per month for 20 transfers. The only problem is I only need to make one or two transfers per month...

I should add that visa/mastercard exchange rates are different from bank exchange rates. So, scb rates or others are an indication, but are not relevant concerning this topic.

[JimGant]

You are correct. I need to mention that I am a business BofA customer. Applying for ACH transfers would cost $10 per month for 20 transfers. The only problem is I only need to make one or two transfers per month...

Visa's network rates average about 4-5 satang better than the buying TT rate (the rate you get when you ACH or wire funds to Bangkok Bank). So, even if you paid BofA $10 for just one ACH transfer, a transfer of $3500 or better would beat a 1% ATM card (using 31 baht as the TT rate, and 31.05 as the Visa rate). And if you make two monthly ACH transfers for that same $10, so much the better -- with break even lowering to $2600 (or even $2000, since the BB NY front end fee decreases by $5 at that point).

And, of course, things would look even better for ACH transfers if that ATM card also had a $5 flat fee -- and you also had to pay the 150 baht ATM owner's fee.

Anyway, I'm repeating what's on several other threads, including the below:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/654140-best-no-fee-low-fee-bank-cards-for-americans-2013/

[Will2011]

Yes. By the way, I'm applying for the business world point reward credit card at Bank of America, which has no international transaction fee. But I can't figure out whether ATM fee still applies...

[Pib]

Yes. By the way, I'm applying for the business world point reward credit card at Bank of America, which has no international transaction fee. But I can't figure out whether ATM fee still applies...

If you are talking the MasterCard credit card at this BoA webpage the foreign transaction fee is 2%, which means the bank is passing along the MasterCard fee (say 1%) and adding another 1% for a total of 2%. In the Terms and Conditions link at the bottom of the webpage it says for cash advances it's $10 or 3% of the cash advance amount, whichever is greater. And after the first year the annual fee is $125. And since its a MasterCard its exchange rate will be a little less than a Visa credit card excluding the affects of any fees.

Any specific reason for getting a BoA credit card? They are not known for being the cheapest/one of the best deals. Get yourself a Capital One Visa or MasterCard credit card with no foreign transaction fee or annual fee.

Also, debit and credit cards with the Visa or MasterCard logo use the Visa or MasterCard exchange rate, respectively. Then, repeat, then if the card issuing bank applies a foreign transaction fee like the BoA MasterCard fee of 2% then either a separate 2% fee will appear on your account or the bank will mix in the 2% fee with the basic withdrawal which makes it look like Visa or MasterCard gave you a 2% lower exchange rate--but they didn't--you bank just added the fee which gives the customer the impression Visa/MasterCard gave them a crappy exchange rate when it's really just the impact of the bank's fee.

Edited July 29, 2013 by Pib

[Will2011]

Not the card you just mentioned, but this card

WorldPoints^® Travel Rewards for Business Visa^® Card

https://business.bankofamerica.com/creditcard/CardProductPage?sc=UABOYQ&category=400

That's the card I'm referring to.

[Will2011]

Not the card you just mentioned, but this card

WorldPoints^® Travel Rewards for Business Visa^® Card

https://business.bankofamerica.com/creditcard/CardProductPage?sc=UABOYQ&category=400

That's the card I'm referring to.

[Will2011]

Not the card you just mentioned, but this card

WorldPoints^® Travel Rewards for Business Visa^® Card

https://business.bankofamerica.com/creditcard/CardProductPage?sc=UABOYQ&category=400

That's the card I'm referring to.

[Pib]

Not the card you just mentioned, but this card

WorldPoints^® Travel Rewards for Business Visa^® Card

https://business.bankofamerica.com/creditcard/CardProductPage?sc=UABOYQ&category=400

That's the card I'm referring to.

Well, that's a lot better...no annual fee and no foreign transaction fee. For for a cash advance when clicking on the View Terms and Conditions link on the page above it says for a Cash Advance the following:

Cash Advance Fees: 4% of each advance, including Convenience Checks ($10 min). 3% of each advance ($10 min) for Overdraft Protection advances.

The cash advance charge is pretty typical for credit cards where you pay around a 3-4% upfront fee and then interest at some high rate starts being charged immediately (24.24% for this card). So, it best to pay off the cash advance as soon as possible. Using a credit card to get cash is an expensive way to get money.

[Will2011]

The question is if the atm fee still applies. I can't figure it out...

[JimGant]

Yes. By the way, I'm applying for the business world point reward credit card at Bank of America, which has no international transaction fee. But I can't figure out whether ATM fee still applies...

Credit cards, unlike debit cards, don't double as ATM cards. Yes, they can be used in an ATM machine -- for a "cash advance." But the card you're interested in charges 4% on the amount of cash you receive -- plus charges interest immediately, i.e., no 25 day grace period that POS purchases receive.

As a credit card, the Travel Rewards card (business or personal model) is fine, allowing 1.5% points on all purchases -- and having a cash reward option after $2500 of purchases. Plus, no foreign fees, nor annual fees.

But, stick it in an ATM machine only in a dire emergency, 'cause it will cost you more than any debit/ATM card ever will -- and you won't even get 1.5% of the cash advance in points. (But I think you save the 150 baht ATM fee when you select the "cash advance" button -- woopie do.)

And using for "cash advance" may not even get you the favorable Visa rate of the day -- at least at Siam Commercial Bank (see the bottom of this link http://www.scb.co.th/scb_api/

But I can't figure out whether ATM fee still applies...

Not strictly speaking, since it's not an ATM card.

[Will2011]

Put it that way, it makes a lot of sense!

Thank you for the heads-up!

[Pib]

And using for "cash advance" may not even get you the favorable Visa rate of the day -- at least at Siam Commercial Bank (see the bottom of this link http://www.scb.co.th/scb_api/

Something I found interesting was when going to above link there was also a link for SCB "DCC" rate. I compared SCB's current DCC rate, 29.73632 baht/USD to Visa's rate of 30.98277/USD....that's a difference of 4%. So, if you were using your foreign debit or credit card to purchase an item (i.e, a POS transaction) or getting money from an ATM and the DCC rate was offered and accepted by the person, then they have just got charged 4% more for the item they are purchasing or in getting their cash. And if the card-issuing bank has a foreign transaction fee of say 3% then the bank will most likely still charge that fee...not because they were involved in the currency conversion but simply because it was a foreign transaction.

End result...effectively a 7% lower exchange rate or 7% in fees depending on how you want to look at it. And to add salt to the wounds, if you are getting cash from a Thai bank ATM vs an AEON ATM, then there is another Bt150-180 fee (salt) put on top of that 7% wound. OUCH!!!!!!!!!

Yeap, DCC bad, very bad for the customer; DCC good, very good for the merchant/bank. But so many people self-inflict DCC pain everyday....so sad.

[Pib]

And using for "cash advance" may not even get you the favorable Visa rate of the day -- at least at Siam Commercial Bank (see the bottom of this link http://www.scb.co.th/scb_api/

Something I found interesting was when going to above link there was also a link for SCB "DCC" rate. I compared SCB's current DCC rate, 29.73632 baht/USD to Visa's rate of 30.98277/USD....that's a difference of 4%. So, if you were using your foreign debit or credit card to purchase an item (i.e, a POS transaction) or getting money from an ATM and the DCC rate was offered and accepted by the person, then they have just got charged 4% more for the item they are purchasing or in getting their cash. And if the card-issuing bank has a foreign transaction fee of say 3% then the bank will most likely still charge that fee...not because they were involved in the currency conversion but simply because it was a foreign transaction.

End result...effectively a 7% lower exchange rate or 7% in fees depending on how you want to look at it. And to add salt to the wounds, if you are getting cash from a Thai bank ATM vs an AEON ATM, then there is another Bt150-180 fee (salt) put on top of that 7% wound. OUCH!!!!!!!!!

Yeap, DCC bad, very bad for the customer; DCC good, very good for the merchant/bank. But so many people self-inflict DCC pain everyday....so sad.