Thailand mulls compulsory travel insurance for all foreign tourists

[webfact]

TOURISM
Thailand mulls compulsory travel insurance
Bamrung Amnatcharoenrit,
Pongphon Sarnsamak
The Nation

BANGKOK: -- The Tourism and Sports Ministry is planning to make it compulsory for all foreign tourists to have travel insurance before entering the Kingdom because unpaid bills are putting a huge strain on cash-strapped public hospitals in major destinations, particularly Phuket.

However, some tourism-business operators warn that this measure might keep away travellers as well as tarnish the country's image.

In a telephone interview with The Nation, Tourism and Sports Minister Somsak Pureesrisak said the ministry was readying to implement the regulation to cut down on foreign tourists' unpaid medical bills that cost the country more than Bt200 million annually.

Somsak is discussing the matter with Public Health Minister Pradit Sintavanarong and Deputy Prime Minister Kittiratt Na-Ranong.

Costing "Bt500"

"They agree that foreign tourists should buy an insurance package, which would cost about Bt500," he said.

This would first be applied to tourists who apply for visa at Thai diplomatic missions overseas. The ministry has yet to decide whether this would apply to those who do not need a visa to enter the country.

According to Yuthachai Soonthronrattnavate, president of the Association of Domestic Travel, tourists coming to Thailand on tour packages are already required to buy travel insurance, which allows them to claim Bt1 million for death and up to Bt500,000 for injuries.

Based on the Tourism Ministry's data, up to 6.19 million tourists, or about 28 per cent of the total 22.35 visitors, came to as part of a tour package last year. The Kingdom earned Bt984 billion in revenue from tourist spending in 2012, and expects to earn as much as Bt2.2 trillion from visitors in 2015.

Meanwhile, Phuket - a top travel destination - has had to shoulder about Bt5 million a year in medical costs for foreigners who don't have insurance or are unable to pay for the services, said Dr Bancha Khakhon, chief of the Phuket provincial public health office.

"Whether they can pay or not, it's our obligation to save their lives first," he said.

Most of foreign patients in the province were suffering from motorcycle-related road accidents. Some foreign patients who have health insurance are able to receive emergency treatment at private hospitals but for those who do not have are advised to seek treatment at public hospitals.

On top of the unpaid bills, the Public Health Ministry had to cater a special service for foreign patients: through medical mediators, their problems at public and private hospitals would be resolved within 90 days. In 2012, 59 per cent of foreign patients filed complaints to the ministry, mostly about service quality at clinics.

Bancha supported the Tourism Ministry’s plan, saying this would help public hospitals financially in the long term.

But Yuthachai of the Association of Domestic Travel disagreed with such an initiative and said it should rather be a ''voluntary'' measure, not compulsory.

He expected complaints from foreign tourists if this takes effect. While saying that it is too early to estimate the negative impact on the number of tourist arrivals, he said this will surely create a barrier.

Noting that Thailand would have a problem in enforcing this rule on tourists travelling without tour packages, he said the regulation is sending a negative message to the world that accidents are high in Thailand.

He also noted that Thai travellers do not need travel insurance if taking trips to Singapore, Hong Kong, or Malaysia.

He insisted that most foreign individual travellers can take care of themselves. For the minorities, Thailand’s third-party motor insurance scheme should be enough to foot their bills.

"Before, there was a counter at the airport to sell travel insurance policies to visitors. That is no longer needed as the living quality in Thailand improves while public health services in Thailand has been recognised internationally," he said.


-- The Nation 2013-08-13

[theblether]

If they charge 500 baht for an insurance package, the hospitals will end up being over run with tourists that will take an attitude that they paid for the policy so they are entitled to treatment.

This is going to back fire big time.

[Bluespunk]

"BANGKOK: -- The Tourism and Sports Ministry is planning to make it compulsory for all foreign tourists to have travel insurance before entering the Kingdom because unpaid bills are putting a huge strain on cash-strapped public hospitals in major destinations, particularly Phuket."

Yeah, right, it's tourists who are putting the strain on hospitals. Nothing at all to do with under funding, corruption and locals not paying their bills. <deleted> you cannot blame the state of Thailand's Public Health Service on tourists.

Edited August 13, 2013 by Bluespunk

[Jingthing]

500 baht won't buy adequate insurance for anything serious but a nice earner anyway ...

[wolf5370]

Talk about pissing into the wind! 200m is peanuts compared to the losses with people simply not coming. A lot of those wealthy quality tourists can not get insurance worth a jot - my parent for example: My mother has one lung due to a blood clot years ago - she can rarely get coverage. When she does it has so many exclusions it is next to worthless and costs upwards of 300 Gbp (14,500 baht). So, when she comes she always has credit cards (some that cover emergency repatriation etc anyway - but not existing conditions as always) and enough credit to pay as much as any insurance policy would cover for her anyway. She comes several times a year for two weeks or so and spends loads. She simply would not be able to come if insurance was compulsory as it would be doubtful she could get coverage and if so, would double the cost of the trip nearly.

500baht policy is not going to cover anything worth having and would not stop the same happening - few tourists could not afford with holiday money (or family help) to cover minor accidents and expensive ones would not be covered anyway. It is also not effective for expats or longer term tourists simply because even annual travel insurance only covers the first two months or less in most cases.

As I said before - put 500 baht on the airport landing tax and put that into a fund to cover such expenses - this would not even be noticed on the price of flights and would be gleaned from all, insured or not, and can cover all tourist bases costs such as duty solicitor, emergency aid, deportation and so on. It is also interest bearing.

[dcutman]

Meanwhile, Phuket - a top travel destination - has had to shoulder about Bt5 million a year in medical costs for foreigners who don't have insurance or are unable to pay for the services, said Dr Bancha Khakhon, chief of the Phuket provincial public health office.

How much revenue did Phuket generate from tourist last year? Bt 140 billion? Local state hospital is overburdened on tourist who do not pay bill, Bt 5 million a year. I am having some trouble reconciling this devastating foreign burden to revenue from the same burden.

Btw how much revenue was generated in same govt hospital from tourist that did pay. As we all know and I doubt state hospitals are much different than state parks, there is a upcharge on foreigners.

[jaltsc]

Conversation at the The Tourism and Sports Ministry:

"Another problem with finances"...

"You just blame it on the tourists, again". ..

"Why don't you do it?"

"I need to pick up my new Benz before noon"

"OK, but I'm on a tight schedule. Heading off to Macao for a week".

"Damn tourists ruining the whole economy".

[yourauntbob]

Meanwhile, Phuket - a top travel destination - has had to shoulder about Bt5 million a year in medical costs for foreigners who don't have insurance or are unable to pay for the services, said Dr Bancha Khakhon, chief of the Phuket provincial public health office.

How much revenue did Phuket generate from tourist last year? Bt 140 billion? Local state hospital is overburdened on tourist who do not pay bill, Bt 5 million a year. I am having some trouble reconciling this devastating foreign burden to revenue from the same burden.

Btw how much revenue was generated in same govt hospital from tourist that did pay. As we all know and I doubt state hospitals are much different than state parks, there is a upcharge on foreigners.

+2

well put

they make a ton on people who do pay. i was in a hospital in Phuket and had surgery to the tune of 500,000 for a week and a half stay. i had insurance but need to pay out of pocket and get reimburse because they couldnt coordinate with the insurance company. cant wait to see their reaction when tourism tanks and they go begging for people to come back.

[apetley]

Tourist revenue in 2012 was 984,000,000,000 bht.

Cost of medical care was 200,000,000 bht or an insignificant 0.02% of revenue.

Sent from my GT-I9003 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[zydeco]

Would this insurance cover things like the Malaysians injured in the Lee Gardens bombing in Hat Yai a year and a half ago? Or will you need separate terrorism insurance as well?

[wolf5370]

Meanwhile, Phuket - a top travel destination - has had to shoulder about Bt5 million a year in medical costs for foreigners who don't have insurance or are unable to pay for the services, said Dr Bancha Khakhon, chief of the Phuket provincial public health office.

How much revenue did Phuket generate from tourist last year? Bt 140 billion? Local state hospital is overburdened on tourist who do not pay bill, Bt 5 million a year. I am having some trouble reconciling this devastating foreign burden to revenue from the same burden.

Btw how much revenue was generated in same govt hospital from tourist that did pay. As we all know and I doubt state hospitals are much different than state parks, there is a upcharge on foreigners.

+2

well put

they make a ton on people who do pay. i was in a hospital in Phuket and had surgery to the tune of 500,000 for a week and a half stay. i had insurance but need to pay out of pocket and get reimburse because they couldnt coordinate with the insurance company. cant wait to see their reaction when tourism tanks and they go begging for people to come back.

This is the problem - the Thai Rosy Specs. They honestly seem to believe that tourists are a continually tappable and ripe produce that will flow eternally regardless of what they do, how they are treated or how much it costs in real terms to come here.

They gloss over the negative press - propaganda heard only internally - and as Thailand continues to price itself out of the market, and the reputation of "smiles" is replaced for one of "scams, violence and rudeness", and as neighbouring countries open up to tourism and have all the same attractions and more (such as casinos for those Chinese Thailand is so desperate for) - Thailand is in for a rude awakening in years to come.

Sure, people still go to Egypt when tourist buses are being shredded with automatic guns fire and bombs and the country is in civil unrest, but it is hardly their heyday anymore, and Egypt bends over backwards to attract and protect tourists - and the attraction there is a unique history that Thailand does not have (shared with most of South East Asia - and less spoiled in many cases)

[wolf5370]

Would this insurance cover things like the Malaysians injured in the Lee Gardens bombing in Hat Yai a year and a half ago? Or will you need separate terrorism insurance as well?

Acts of Terrorism is almost always an exclusion on insurance; the south is also a known hot spot with most countries offering official warnings about travel to those areas, so would be excluded on those grounds too.

[denby45]

Shortfall Costs to Thailand = Bt200,000,000 million annually.

Insurance package, which would cost about Bt500

6.19 of the 22.35 million tourists Have insurance because they are on package

No of people without insurance = 22,350,000 - 6,190,000 = 16,160,000= No of people who will be forced to take insurance

16,160,000 * 500 = 8,080,000,000 Baht

8,080,000,000 - 200,000,000 = profit of 7,880,000,000

Future Earnings potential

Trying to work out the number of visitors in 2015 based on revenue.

2,200,000,000,000/984,000,000 = 2.23 factor

Future profit should be 7,880,000,000 * 2.23 = 17,617,886,178 baht

Nice little earner if you ask me.

Den

[denby45]

If they charge 500 baht for an insurance package, the hospitals will end up being over run with tourists that will take an attitude that they paid for the policy so they are entitled to treatment.

This is going to back fire big time.

I for one will make sure I get my money's worth. Mental note: Whilst visiting remember to pick a fight with the biggest bloke in the bar.

That will teach them.

Den

[darrendsd]

"BANGKOK: -- The Tourism and Sports Ministry is planning to make it compulsory for all foreign tourists to have travel insurance before entering the Kingdom because unpaid bills are putting a huge strain on cash-strapped public hospitals in major destinations, particularly Phuket."

Yeah, right, it's tourists who are putting the strain on hospitals. Nothing at all to do with under funding, corruption and locals not paying their bills. <deleted> you cannot blame the state of Thailand's Public Health Service on tourists.

They are not blaming tourists for the state of the health service they are simply saying that some tourists are not paying their bills and this is a way to make sure that the hospitals are not out of pocket and to be honest why should they be because some dumb tourist refuses to spend a few quid on insurance before they come here, gets treatment and then has no money to pay

I personally think it is a good idea, wether tourists will is another matter

[thomash]

These must be the same people who

dreamed up the rice pledging scam they must be smoking some good stuff in

Bangkok!

[wolf5370]

Shortfall Costs to Thailand = Bt200,000,000 million annually.

Insurance package, which would cost about Bt500

6.19 of the 22.35 million tourists Have insurance because they are on package

No of people without insurance = 22,350,000 - 6,190,000 = 16,160,000= No of people who will be forced to take insurance

16,160,000 * 500 = 8,080,000,000 Baht

8,080,000,000 - 200,000,000 = profit of 7,880,000,000

Future Earnings potential

Trying to work out the number of visitors in 2015 based on revenue.

2,200,000,000,000/984,000,000 = 2.23 factor

Future profit should be 7,880,000,000 * 2.23 = 17,617,886,178 baht

Nice little earner if you ask me.

Den

This assumes everyone not on a package doesn't have insurance - and that they will purchase such from Thailand (forced to take some would you come to Thailand and buy it - or just get some at the travel agent/bank/credit card company etc at home?)

//Edit: Missed closing bracket

Edited August 13, 2013 by wolf5370

[wolf5370]

"BANGKOK: -- The Tourism and Sports Ministry is planning to make it compulsory for all foreign tourists to have travel insurance before entering the Kingdom because unpaid bills are putting a huge strain on cash-strapped public hospitals in major destinations, particularly Phuket."

Yeah, right, it's tourists who are putting the strain on hospitals. Nothing at all to do with under funding, corruption and locals not paying their bills. <deleted> you cannot blame the state of Thailand's Public Health Service on tourists.

They are not blaming tourists for the state of the health service they are simply saying that some tourists are not paying their bills and this is a way to make sure that the hospitals are not out of pocket and to be honest why should they be because some dumb tourist refuses to spend a few quid on insurance before they come here, gets treatment and then has no money to pay

I personally think it is a good idea, wether tourists will is another matter

It is the rough with the smooth - a cost every tourist destination in the world has to deal with to varying degrees and part of the game. Desirable, of course, but it makes no sense as most have been saying (and anyone can see) because it will put people off coming (or just stop them being able to come) - especially those wealthy old people that can not get insurance but use their credit cards to cover eventualities - to a much greater tune than b200m/year. It is something that can be covered easily with a fund to cover it (fund can be raised in other ways - including airport tax) without putting off tourists. It is not the issue or wanting to stop it people are talking about so much as how their solution is flawed and ridiculous.

Edited August 13, 2013 by wolf5370

[watcharacters]

Meanwhile, Phuket - a top travel destination - has had to shoulder about Bt5 million a year in medical costs for foreigners who don't have insurance or are unable to pay for the services, said Dr Bancha Khakhon, chief of the Phuket provincial public health office.

How much revenue did Phuket generate from tourist last year? Bt 140 billion? Local state hospital is overburdened on tourist who do not pay bill, Bt 5 million a year. I am having some trouble reconciling this devastating foreign burden to revenue from the same burden.

Btw how much revenue was generated in same govt hospital from tourist that did pay. As we all know and I doubt state hospitals are much different than state parks, there is a upcharge on foreigners.

+2

well put

they make a ton on people who do pay. i was in a hospital in Phuket and had surgery to the tune of 500,000 for a week and a half stay. i had insurance but need to pay out of pocket and get reimburse because they couldnt coordinate with the insurance company. cant wait to see their reaction when tourism tanks and they go begging for people to come back.

This is the problem - the Thai Rosy Specs. They honestly seem to believe that tourists are a continually tappable and ripe produce that will flow eternally regardless of what they do, how they are treated or how much it costs in real terms to come here.

They gloss over the negative press - propaganda heard only internally - and as Thailand continues to price itself out of the market, and the reputation of "smiles" is replaced for one of "scams, violence and rudeness", and as neighbouring countries open up to tourism and have all the same attractions and more (such as casinos for those Chinese Thailand is so desperate for) - Thailand is in for a rude awakening in years to come.

Sure, people still go to Egypt when tourist buses are being shredded with automatic guns fire and bombs and the country is in civil unrest, but it is hardly their heyday anymore, and Egypt bends over backwards to attract and protect tourists - and the attraction there is a unique history that Thailand does not have (shared with most of South East Asia - and less spoiled in many cases)

.

You mean they're not?

" They honestly seem to believe that tourists are a continually tappable and ripe produce"

[robblok]

Shortfall Costs to Thailand = Bt200,000,000 million annually.

Insurance package, which would cost about Bt500

6.19 of the 22.35 million tourists Have insurance because they are on package

No of people without insurance = 22,350,000 - 6,190,000 = 16,160,000= No of people who will be forced to take insurance

16,160,000 * 500 = 8,080,000,000 Baht

8,080,000,000 - 200,000,000 = profit of 7,880,000,000

Future Earnings potential

Trying to work out the number of visitors in 2015 based on revenue.

2,200,000,000,000/984,000,000 = 2.23 factor

Future profit should be 7,880,000,000 * 2.23 = 17,617,886,178 baht

Nice little earner if you ask me.

Den

This assumes everyone not on a package doesn't have insurance - and that they will purchase such from Thailand (forced to take some would you come to Thailand and buy it - or just get some at the travel agent/bank/credit card company etc at home?

Not only does it assume that there would be a lot of people without insurance who paid it themselves out of pocket now they will claim.

I wonder how they will treat people like my parents who have ongoing travel insurance. I wonder how they will check all those insurances if people not already have one.

[wolf5370]

Meanwhile, Phuket - a top travel destination - has had to shoulder about Bt5 million a year in medical costs for foreigners who don't have insurance or are unable to pay for the services, said Dr Bancha Khakhon, chief of the Phuket provincial public health office.

How much revenue did Phuket generate from tourist last year? Bt 140 billion? Local state hospital is overburdened on tourist who do not pay bill, Bt 5 million a year. I am having some trouble reconciling this devastating foreign burden to revenue from the same burden.

Btw how much revenue was generated in same govt hospital from tourist that did pay. As we all know and I doubt state hospitals are much different than state parks, there is a upcharge on foreigners.

+2

well put

they make a ton on people who do pay. i was in a hospital in Phuket and had surgery to the tune of 500,000 for a week and a half stay. i had insurance but need to pay out of pocket and get reimburse because they couldnt coordinate with the insurance company. cant wait to see their reaction when tourism tanks and they go begging for people to come back.

This is the problem - the Thai Rosy Specs. They honestly seem to believe that tourists are a continually tappable and ripe produce that will flow eternally regardless of what they do, how they are treated or how much it costs in real terms to come here.

They gloss over the negative press - propaganda heard only internally - and as Thailand continues to price itself out of the market, and the reputation of "smiles" is replaced for one of "scams, violence and rudeness", and as neighbouring countries open up to tourism and have all the same attractions and more (such as casinos for those Chinese Thailand is so desperate for) - Thailand is in for a rude awakening in years to come.

Sure, people still go to Egypt when tourist buses are being shredded with automatic guns fire and bombs and the country is in civil unrest, but it is hardly their heyday anymore, and Egypt bends over backwards to attract and protect tourists - and the attraction there is a unique history that Thailand does not have (shared with most of South East Asia - and less spoiled in many cases)

.

You mean they're not?

" They honestly seem to believe that tourists are a continually tappable and ripe produce"

No, they are not - within the context of my statement : "They honestly seem to believe that tourists are a continually tappable and ripe produce that will flow eternally regardless of what they do, how they are treated or how much it costs in real terms to come here." - the rest of the sentence is important - tourists are always ripe/tappable as a subset of people (because they care more for enjoying their holiday than their wallets, generally), but not necessarily to Thailand.

[lee b]

It costs me more than 500 Baht for dinner and a few liquid refreshments !

[Bluespunk]

"BANGKOK: -- The Tourism and Sports Ministry is planning to make it compulsory for all foreign tourists to have travel insurance before entering the Kingdom because unpaid bills are putting a huge strain on cash-strapped public hospitals in major destinations, particularly Phuket."

Yeah, right, it's tourists who are putting the strain on hospitals. Nothing at all to do with under funding, corruption and locals not paying their bills. <deleted> you cannot blame the state of Thailand's Public Health Service on tourists.

They are not blaming tourists for the state of the health service they are simply saying that some tourists are not paying their bills and this is a way to make sure that the hospitals are not out of pocket and to be honest why should they be because some dumb tourist refuses to spend a few quid on insurance before they come here, gets treatment and then has no money to pay

I personally think it is a good idea, wether tourists will is another matter

I don't know, seems to me that bit about putting a huge strain on cash strapped hospitals is blaming tourists for the hospitals financial problems. I agree we all should insurance but I feel the hospitals are feeling the strain because of reasons other than tourists not paying their bills.

[harrry]

Once Thailand knew how to handle tourism. Most of the population had a one generation back farm background. They thought that tourism is good. It is like raising water buffallo without the hassle. Build somewhere to sleep and the tourists will come to play in the water. When they are hungry they return to the barn to eat. The difference is the tourist paid to sleep in the barn, and paid for the food.

Now tourists are though of as kwai. They will keep coming however much they are maltreated and overcharged.

Sadly the earlier thais were more correct.

[culicine]

Tourist revenue in 2012 was 984,000,000,000 bht.

Cost of medical care was 200,000,000 bht or an insignificant 0.02% of revenue.

Sent from my GT-I9003 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

And even a 1% drop in tourist numbers is a massive hit on total income. Surely these guys crunched the numbers?

[kevinsan]

The $7 million dollar nightmare. Less than the kickback on a new plane. Lets see. 18m tourists a year times 500 ($16) equals approximately 288m usd. Subtract the 7m from the 288m and we are left with 281m in muppet profit. Brilliant.

[harrry]

Tourist revenue in 2012 was 984,000,000,000 bht.

Cost of medical care was 200,000,000 bht or an insignificant 0.02% of revenue.

Sent from my GT-I9003 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

And even a 1% drop in tourist numbers is a massive hit on total income. Surely these guys crunched the numbers?

Sorry they could not as they only had 8 digit calculators.

[wolf5370]

Shortfall Costs to Thailand = Bt200,000,000 million annually.

Insurance package, which would cost about Bt500

6.19 of the 22.35 million tourists Have insurance because they are on package

No of people without insurance = 22,350,000 - 6,190,000 = 16,160,000= No of people who will be forced to take insurance

16,160,000 * 500 = 8,080,000,000 Baht

8,080,000,000 - 200,000,000 = profit of 7,880,000,000

Future Earnings potential

Trying to work out the number of visitors in 2015 based on revenue.

2,200,000,000,000/984,000,000 = 2.23 factor

Future profit should be 7,880,000,000 * 2.23 = 17,617,886,178 baht

Nice little earner if you ask me.

Den

This assumes everyone not on a package doesn't have insurance - and that they will purchase such from Thailand (forced to take some would you come to Thailand and buy it - or just get some at the travel agent/bank/credit card company etc at home?

Not only does it assume that there would be a lot of people without insurance who paid it themselves out of pocket now they will claim.

I wonder how they will treat people like my parents who have ongoing travel insurance. I wonder how they will check all those insurances if people not already have one.

I believe their initial idea was to get the airlines to do the checking (like they check for return/on going tickets at checking unless a long term visa is held), but the airlines refused. They only play ball about the on going tickets because the Thailand could turn them away and the airline would be responsible for the price of return - it is doubtful Thailand would go as far as deny entry for people without insurance (especially as they want to sell it themselves I presume). Therefore, it will be chaos for a while at immigration as they check the insurance - or all travellers will be forced to buy Visas and checks will be done by the Embassy/Consulate (which will cost far more than 200m/yr) - and will all be dropped or ignored as time goes on.

I guess they could always give the hospitals permission to deny treatment for uninsured foreigners (putting the onus on the hospitals to check and covering themselves with saying the person was not here legally anyway), but how many hospitals would play ball??? I guess if they still gave treatment they would not be able to claim from the government for it, which may be the real aim anyway.

I think it will end up either being dropped completely (possibly after putting it in place!) or will be revised down to another collection mechanism like airport tax or rise in visas.

If they only buy 3 planes instead of 4, then they can cover it for at least a decade in full!

[BuddyPinkham]

Since when do foreigners not pay their bills (I am sure there are some) but people I know have not been allowed to leave the hospital until the bill is paid. I am think just another plot to get money out of foreigners!

[Phronesis]

They will back off when they find out that the underwriters want to exclude coverage for any tourist visiting Phuket.