Homeless foreigners in Thailand 'lack assistance'

[jaideecm]

I was in a situation back in 1995 where I was visiting Thailand and had to give my savings to my family due to a family illness back home and had to give the family my savings. I wanted to stay in Thailand so I went to a temple close to the Burma border. They gave me a "quitee", 1 room home, at the temple to live in, free food and 4000 baht a month to teach English to monks, novices, the local high school and even police and the army. I also did their web site as I knew HTML language. As long as I stayed at the temple I didn't need a work permit as a volunteer. Here I met several Thais from Bangkok and Chiang Mai and they gave me jobs making web sites for their companies, work permit and everything.

I am now retired with savings and investments I made while working with these wonderful Thai people who gave me a fresh start.

If these homeless people want to stay here have them go to a temple to live. The Abbot will be glad to have them so they can give something to the Thai people like teaching English and it will be returned to them in bunches. The Thais and I believe anyone will help tose who want to help themself. Hanging out and begging ain't gona cut it and I do not feel sorry for them.

[harrycallahan]

Must be a drop in the ocean compared to the number of refugees passing through, with limited means and fake passports. Of course they wouldn't stand out as much as white ghosts.

[mayday49]

On a Global template we are now the witness to impoverished minions that end up where they Do. There are fewer and fewer that control more and more of the Worlds Wealth and likewise there are more and more who end up Homeless and destitute ... Some should hold their Tongues ...

[Emdog]

I have English friend who has been living on beach for 18 months or so. Alcoholic (of course), but keeps self tidy, clean and usually ok behavior. Fun to watch AA do gooders try to "show him the light". His money spent quickly when first got here. Visa WAY over due, but no profit in picking him up, so police don't hassle him. Doesn't want to go back. Says his brother will kill him. Political refugee? Does not eat out of garbage cans.

[Jingthing]

I think they have over-counted.

Not every foreigner seen walking around or sitting in malls during the day is HOMELESS!

Free aircon.

Homeless foreigners lack assistance. Maybe they are closet billionaires and just eccentric? Happens all the time ...

[catweazle]

I worked my @$$ off in Thailand during the past 22 years to be where I am right now, and still am here and have a good life and a family despite having been down to ZERO three times (Tsunami included), never whined about anything, but got my $#it together and stood up and fought again and again.

Don't care how any specific foreigner got to the point to ending up homeless here. And I say: The ones who can't hack it should go home! Respectively be deported to their home countries on self cost (i.e. - their embassy advances the ticket money and they have to WORK back home to pay back for the ticket). If Thailand does not want to go down the filthy road, that so many western countries do due to lax immigration policies and laws that punish the hard working countrymen while giving freebies to the non-working and the non-willing to integrate, Thailand better goes down hard on homeless immigrants.

Pick em up, give em a shower, hand them a toothbrush, a hot meal, and some fresh clothes (2nd hand, donations) and send them back to where they came from.

Edited August 19, 2013 by catweazle

[jmccarty]

I have 2 friends that through bad luck ended up broke and almost homeless here in Thailand if not for support from myself and other friends. Could happen to anyone though many through better planning or circumstances manage to avoid falling that far.

Don't judge others and tar with the same brush. You never know when your own employer or source of income stops paying you!

[Ianatlarge]

A few harsh comments made. People do stuff up, we all do, and sometimes badly (not so far for me, fingers crossed). Making a bad mistake does not mean that you are a bad person, undeserving of assistance, nor, for that matter, does doing well in life mean that you are a good person. So a measure of sympathy.

My suggestion? First, Thailand could use a minute fraction of the money it collects in visa fees to provide an initial point of contact for these destitute farang. Thailand has grown and modernized in large part due to foreigners living and working in the Kingdom, a little reciprocal payback. Have the Thai constabulary identify and round up these people, as was said, many suffer from problems. Then, the national governments of these farang should bring them home. Or, alternatively, the social benefits payable to these people should be paid to them in Thailand.

This is a social problem, we all share a joint responsibility.

[Suradit69]

When arrested or found by the police, they are mostly deported.

That's good already so why change it make them a burden to the Thai people? Best they go back to where they came from and have a better chance of breaking out of this cycle.

Yes, it's unfortunate, but if the destitute are going to be catered for via state handouts, some people will regard that as a safety net to be exploited one way or another as is done in western nanny states.

I'm surprised to hear "they are mostly deported." I thought that only happened if the deportee or some organization came up with the funds, which seldom happened. I was under the impression they weren't arrested because there was no practical way to deport them and that embassies rarely wanted to get involved.

Undoubtedly some, maybe many, were "duped" by Thai partners, but that would suggest that farang males were naturally at an intellectual disadvantage when dealing with minimally-educated Thai women. Interesting that that view is readily accepted here ... maybe reality hits the fan??

On the other hand we have another thread running in which the local farang are assuring some 34 year old that he can live comfortably on a pittance as long as he only drinks every other day & weekends and doesn't go over-board with the women. Sounds like that sort of thinking is what leads to having some farang sleeping in alleyways after their budget and brain cells have vanished.

Maybe the financial means test for retirement extensions is a reasonable hoop to be made to jump through and at least some of those who circumvent those requirements are heading the same way.

Edited August 19, 2013 by Suradit69

[TackyToo]

Many of them have an alcohol abuse problems and are on welfare in their home countries and come here for winter as it is way too cold living on the streets in Northern Europe.

I know of one European man who has been deported 10 times and returned every year, to be deported again!

Problem is once you are overstayed, the police are often reticent (read lazy) to arrest you and most embassies do not have the funding to pay for your deportation.

As their is no blacklisting for repeat overstaying, Thailand will continue to be subject to street farangs till the laws change!

There is one British guy in the IDC for some time now, who does not have money to buy a ticket home, who is slowly going crazy.

… and most embassies do not have the funding to pay for your deportation.

Here is the point I don’t understand. As a retiree or husband of a Thai woman you have to show proof of pension money or income and park a lot of money in the bank. Thailand’s immigration can refuse entry to the country if you don’t have 20.000 Baht in your pocket or your bank account.

Then why do they allow countries to operate an embassy over here if they don’t have enough funds to take care of their citizen?

[Monkeyrobot]

Not just in Thailand many countries with the same problem.

Edited August 19, 2013 by metisdead
Strike through removed.

[moe666]

Sorry folks habitual homeless people especially those on drugs or alcohol do not seem to want to get off the street. I know a Swede, boy friend of sister of my ex-girlfriend, gave him 2,000 baht for food and ticket to Bangkok and Swedish Embassy, guess what the last time I saw him he is passed out on Sukhumvit Rd. near soi nana.

The notion that these people have been duped by girlfriend or partner is dubious at best. We had one fella here in CM who went thru several million baht and then spent a few days in the local mental hospital, total alcoholic, I believe he is back in England now bad mouthing Thailand.

A few of the street people who hung out in my neighbor hood back in the states always had money from panhandling and their monthly check, it seemed to be a life style they were comfortable with. Yes I know there are exceptions to the rule but that is true in many other facets of life.

[MaxYakov]

what is the moral of this story?

If you're a foreigner and expect Thailand to be your "Nanny State", it may be a while. It might be best to deport oneself back to the Western "Nanny State" of preference or be miserable in Thailand on private sector charity?

Edited August 19, 2013 by MaxYakov

[nami]

How sad, and also sad to read such comments. We all know what happens when these people are detained: They are sent to the extremely crowded immigration jails while waiting for the money to pay for the flight back home, some people stay there for years because most embassies won't pay for the ticket and is evaluated on a case by case basis. I remember reading some good (and sad) posts from fellow member Morakot about this subject.

[moe666]

Many of them have an alcohol abuse problems and are on welfare in their home countries and come here for winter as it is way too cold living on the streets in Northern Europe.

I know of one European man who has been deported 10 times and returned every year, to be deported again!

Problem is once you are overstayed, the police are often reticent (read lazy) to arrest you and most embassies do not have the funding to pay for your deportation.

As their is no blacklisting for repeat overstaying, Thailand will continue to be subject to street farangs till the laws change!

There is one British guy in the IDC for some time now, who does not have money to buy a ticket home, who is slowly going crazy.

… and most embassies do not have the funding to pay for your deportation.

Here is the point I don’t understand. As a retiree or husband of a Thai woman you have to show proof of pension money or income and park a lot of money in the bank. Thailand’s immigration can refuse entry to the country if you don’t have 20.000 Baht in your pocket or your bank account.

Then why do they allow countries to operate an embassy over here if they don’t have enough funds to take care of their citizen?

Because giving money to their citizens is not a law they operate under, the US Embassy cannot buy you a ticket home. You got here on your own wwhy is someone else responsible for you getting back.

[meatboy]

I was in a situation back in 1995 where I was visiting Thailand and had to give my savings to my family due to a family illness back home and had to give the family my savings. I wanted to stay in Thailand so I went to a temple close to the Burma border. They gave me a "quitee", 1 room home, at the temple to live in, free food and 4000 baht a month to teach English to monks, novices, the local high school and even police and the army. I also did their web site as I knew HTML language. As long as I stayed at the temple I didn't need a work permit as a volunteer. Here I met several Thais from Bangkok and Chiang Mai and they gave me jobs making web sites for their companies, work permit and everything.

I am now retired with savings and investments I made while working with these wonderful Thai people who gave me a fresh start.

If these homeless people want to stay here have them go to a temple to live. The Abbot will be glad to have them so they can give something to the Thai people like teaching English and it will be returned to them in bunches. The Thais and I believe anyone will help tose who want to help themself. Hanging out and begging ain't gona cut it and I do not feel sorry for them.

retired with savings and investments made in thailand,maybe you should give something back so they can make a fresh start.

[Johnnie99]

So this is what 60% of ThaiVisa forum posters are like. Eye-opening!

"In some cases, these foreigners... often having being duped or robbed by Thai former wives or partners..."

...and of course the usual, emphatic reaction on TV is "som nam na", "what the f... do I care", "deport the idiots" etc.

Oh of course, if it's foreigners we must show sympathy. But god forbid if the article in question is talking about Thais!

You will find that this is not a forum which assists the Thai people in their delusions of normality nor those who subscribe to the erroneous belief that this is a caring nation in any manner except the financial.

If you want to praise these people, look elsewhere. We here are blunt and honest, and we tell it like it is, without blinkers or the starry-eyed view of those who do not see the reality.

We may appear to be uncaring and vicious at times but it is done in the hope that someone, somewhere here might just finally take notice and instigate change.

[Netizen]

what is the moral of this story?

No woman no cry.

[Netizen]

I think being a westerner Thailand would be the last place you would want to end up homeless and destitute. I wouldn't like to be homeless in Australia either but at least there are services available to offer some help.

A fair percentage of homeless people suffer from some form of mental heath and I would also guess that a few of the farang homeless in Thailand are suffering from shame and depression after being duped by a Thai women and don't want to return home to face family and friends who think they are living the good life in Thailand.

This may sound a little harsh but I think if you see a homeless farang in Thailand you should report them so they can be deported where they have access to social security and other services.

Yes I agree with that, and their countries should require proof that they have been TV members for a year before allowing them on a flight to Thailand.

That would sort the problem out.

That would expose those with mental problems.

Edited August 19, 2013 by Netizen

[dighambara]

I think being a westerner Thailand would be the last place you would want to end up homeless and destitute. I wouldn't like to be homeless in Australia either but at least there are services available to offer some help.

A fair percentage of homeless people suffer from some form of mental heath and I would also guess that a few of the farang homeless in Thailand are suffering from shame and depression after being duped by a Thai women and don't want to return home to face family and friends who think they are living the good life in Thailand.

This may sound a little harsh but I think if you see a homeless farang in Thailand you should report them so they can be deported where they have access to social security and other services.

Honestly, for people from Western countries, getting sent back to their home country is probably the best thing that can happen in that situation. There there are social welfare services available, and many of them would have a chance to get a job and get back on their feet.

A much tricker situation is homeless from Burma, Lao, etc., many of whom are stateless and could face persecution if sent back.

If Thailand isn't going to help out Rohingya, Hmong etc. why would they be bothered to help out broke westerners?

I agree. I am retired and have been here for ten years - this time around. I first came in 1966, so knew the territory before retiring and settling down.

[dg1980]

I'm sure there's a few dramatic instances out there who deserve our empathy and support but let's be real about this.

Why should anyone feel bad for someone who has come to Thailand and pissed away their savings on alcohol and prostitutes.

Duped by Thai wives is just a face saving way of saying exactly that.

Go back home.

[delgarcon]

Charity begins at home! It's high time that the Thai government put in place some sort of social security system for their own people who can't afford to even pay for health care. Foreigners (like myself) who come here to retire or open businesses or very often to bum around until their money runs out contribute nothing to Thai society and should be the responsibility of their own embassy if they run out of money and become homeless.

[moe666]

A few harsh comments made. People do stuff up, we all do, and sometimes badly (not so far for me, fingers crossed). Making a bad mistake does not mean that you are a bad person, undeserving of assistance, nor, for that matter, does doing well in life mean that you are a good person. So a measure of sympathy.

My suggestion? First, Thailand could use a minute fraction of the money it collects in visa fees to provide an initial point of contact for these destitute farang. Thailand has grown and modernized in large part due to foreigners living and working in the Kingdom, a little reciprocal payback. Have the Thai constabulary identify and round up these people, as was said, many suffer from problems. Then, the national governments of these farang should bring them home. Or, alternatively, the social benefits payable to these people should be paid to them in Thailand.

This is a social problem, we all share a joint responsibility.

Sorry I share no responsibility for some other persons decisions

[hansnl]

Honestly, for people from Western countries, getting sent back to their home country is probably the best thing that can happen in that situation. There there are social welfare services available, and many of them would have a chance to get a job and get back on their feet.

A much tricker situation is homeless from Burma, Lao, etc., many of whom are stateless and could face persecution if sent back.

If Thailand isn't going to help out Rohingya, Hmong etc. why would they be bothered to help out broke westerners?

Wake up!

The social services in most European countries do not help those poor people.

Why?

Because they did not pay the required premiums, or whatever names are used.

Face it, they left the country, most do not pay taxes & all any more, and are not welcome back.....at all.

[Notstupid30]

[snot goblin]

So then all western countries should send all thai nationals back to Thailand, currently living in europe and who would be homeless if the social systems have not protecting them getting that! What one expect of a country who do not care about their poor or homeless? Deciding yourself lifing in Thailand must taken carefully because otherwise sometimes you go back only in a coffin before being robbed of all your assets!

thai nationals or thai immigrants? if they are legal immigrants, then they should be entitled to whatever social welfare systems that's already in place.

thailand (and almost all of asia) doesn't have a welfare system.

correct me if i am wrong but i was under the impression that the wats feed thai people who cant feed themselves. and if fact i have actually seen monks handing cash to beggars.

have also seen long term homeless presumably thai people who although they live on the street they are not hungry or desperate and i've seen these same people in the same town for months if not years.

Edited August 19, 2013 by snot goblin

[anon467367354]

I wonder how many Thai citizens are homeless in the US, UK or Australia? Probably not that many.

The difference could be in my opinion is people are treated as equals and allowed to find jobs wherever

anybody will hire them. In the kingdom, foreigners, actually "white" people are not allowed to work other than

teaching and that's not for everybody considering the state of the public school system.

If you're Asian, you can work just about anywhere they will hire you. I see people from Africa at

Chatuchak market selling gems and all kinds of things. I don't see any farang getting any normal

basic jobs. Money is not everything, quality of life is. Not all of us are about making 5 times more than the Thai

but rather having a sense of security and a place to call home.

Strength comes from diversity, and due to the homogenous nature of Thailand it's not a strong country and

should be aware of the dangers that could bring. Just my opinion of course.

[mooris7]

How sad, and also sad to read such comments. We all know what happens when these people are detained: They are sent to the extremely crowded immigration jails while waiting for the money to pay for the flight back home, some people stay there for years because most embassies won't pay for the ticket and is evaluated on a case by case basis. I remember reading some good (and sad) posts from fellow member Morakot about this subject.

Well at least they would have a place to sleep and 3 meals a day! Even if they are crappy meals, it's food. I don't feel sorry for these homeless farangs. Most wasted all their money on girls and alcohol. Just like one poster said about the Swede guy who was drunk on Soi Nana. Wake up and smell the coffee people. Thailand has enough problems with their own people to be mucking around with homeless foreigners. The amnesty bill, the Muslims in the south, countless young woman selling their bodies to support their children and dead beat thai husbands, a decreasing farming industry and rice export! It's time to discuss more sensible things!

Edited August 19, 2013 by mooris7

[jmccarty]

On another note but about repatriation. Way back in 1989 I was in a motorcycle accident in Singapore and ended up in the hospital with a broken leg, arm and ribs. I was an offshore freelance worker and insurance had recently expired while offshore and had planned to renew it but that was before the internet and things were done much slower back then.

My money ran out while in the hospital and a Singaporean friend had to act as guarantor for me so I could stay in the hospital a bit longer. The US embassy was summoned by the hospital and a person showed up and after hearing what happened to me, it was a hit and run, offered to repatriate me. The downside would be that I would not be allowed to travel internationally until I paid back the airfare and the hospital in Singapore.

I took the harder way out and refused the repatriation. I called around and found an acquaintance I had met on most recent trip offshore had a spare bedroom in his house and he readily offered it until I could get back on my feet, which was 4 months.

I recovered and have had several run-ins with the hospital since in the past 27 years. Each time since I was much better prepared and convalesced in my own house fully insured.

If it were not for that acquaintance that showed some compassion way back in '89, I'm sure my life would have been a miserable existence in a Louisiana %&ithole of a place and the way the offshore business has declined in the US, had a much poorer experience and future.

[Maggusoil]

There are a thousand different ways, s . . t can happen, to anyone, anywhere at any time.

Not just from avaricious Thai women, or alcohol or drugs. Legal problems back home, avaricious ex-wives back home, financial problems back home. Accidents. Some of us are just drawn to risky pursuits and fail.

One guy I knew twenty years ago in Indonesia, was given a certain amount of money and told never to return to Europe. Or else.

After partying all his money away, he was on the streets in Jakarta for two years. Serious survival skills needed, particularly for a faring or buleh as they call us there.

Some of us are lucky and/ or very well organised. Some of the lucky or very well organised are frequently less than compassionate

for those that are not.

That's life. I favour the compassionate approach when possible, and because many people are compassionate for those less fortunate,

our advanced societies have social protection networks, paid for by our tax dollars.

What I find repugnant is when the government employees keep the money for themselves and their super and forget why they are there.

Also when the social service networks get rorted by professional lepers and bludgers.

I am sure a scheme to help down and out foreigners, who have run aground, would not be out of place, but the argument as to whether that would help down and out Thais in this situation is well put. As they say. Charity starts at home.