New rules for extensions of stay with expiring passport

[ubonjoe]

 U.S. passports are good for 10 years and then you need to get a new passport

The passport I now have was issued in October 2005 so it expires in October 2015.

I am on a retirement extension and it needs to be renewed annually in October, next due this October 2013 for another year.

In 2015 my annual  retirement renewal will also be due in October.

From what it seems therefore I must get a new U.S. passport in 2014 so that when I do come to renew my annual retirement visa/extension in 2015 (assuming I last that long) the passport I then hold has at least one year validity left at that time .... to get my annual retirement extension.

Because, as long as remain on my current retirement extension schedule both my current U.S. passport and my annual retirement extension renewal are now both due in October 2015.

So there is a potential conflict.

Is that the gist of it?

reason for edit: it's early in the morning and I'm still having my wakeup coffee.

 

You can apply for a new U.S. passport at the consulate in Bangkok anytime... There's no limit about only being able to apply XX months before the expiration of your current book.

Thus, under the new Immigration rules, ideally, you might want to make sure you have the new passport in hand by the time you apply for your retirement extension in October 2014...

Although, technically, if the date you applied in October 2014 for your retirement extension was actually more than one year ahead of your actual October 2015 passport expiry, I assume you'd be OK for that cycle. Example: you applied for your extension on Oct. 1, 2014, but your existing passport was valid through Oct. 15, 2015 -- i.e., more than 12 months ahead.

What matters for this discussion is how much time is left on your passport on the actual date you file for your next retirement extension. And you can apply for a retirement extension up to 45 days prior to the expiry of your existing one, which gives you some additional wiggle room relative to your passport expiry date. 

I would get a new passport before extending this year. That way no ifs ands or maybes plus no need for an extra trip to immigration to do transfer when you get new passport in a few months. Plus no problem with re-entry permit if you get one with extension.

The date when new extension ends and when passport expires is what matters now.

Date you apply does not come into play.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Joe, maybe I'm missing something, but that advice doesn't make any sense... His passport is valid thru Oct 2015... Why would he need to get a new passport NOW before applying for his next extension in October 2013?

He'll have two full years of validity on his current passport when he goes to apply this October (2013), and would have no problem or complication with getting an extension and re-entry permit valid thru Oct. 2014.

Then, he could well have more than a year of remaining validity on his passport when he applies for his October 2014 extension, depending on how he times it.

Also, regarding the new Immigration rule, it is indeed at the point/date where the person applies for an extension where Immigration starts looking for at least one-year remaining on their passport. If the person has at least a year of passport validity remaining at the point at which they apply, there's no problem. They'll get the full and normal 12 month extension.

Edited August 28, 2013 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[cnx355]

Does not save time for them at Immigration as they still have to transfer the old extension to your new passport when you get it.

Maybe they want get a few customer that forget the new rule and have to pay the 1900 B twice in the same year.

[chooka]

I wonder how this will effect those that only have a couple of pages left in their passport. I have 2 pages and my passport expires in 2016. I need to get a new passport so will they transfer my extention over even tho my passport hasn't expired?

[lopburi3]

They don't do anything at immigration new for those on visa entry getting new passports and expect this will eliminate the need to do for those on extensions of stay as they can just present both passports as do those on visa entry if exiting prior to end of allowed extensions. We do not know the details yet but would suspect it is designed to save everyone time and effort.

[ubonjoe]

Joe...that doesn't make any sense... His passport is valid thru Oct 2015... Why would he need to get a new passport NOW before applying for his next extension in October 2013?He'll have two full years of validity on his current passport when he goes to apply this October (2013), and would have no problem or complication with getting an extension and re-entry permit valid thru Oct. 2014.Then, he could well have more than a year of remaining validity on his passport when he applies for his October 2014 extension, depending on how he times it.Also, regarding the new Immigration rule, it is indeed at the point/date where the person applies for an extension where Immigration starts looking for at least one-year remaining on their passport. If the person has at least a year of passport validity remaining at the point at which they apply, there's no problem. They'll get the full and normal 12 month extension.

Okay I got years mixed up. But it can serve as an example.Just looking at it sure. But they would be looking at passport expiration date compared to the date new extensions expiration date will be.They would not issue full extension with a passport that expires even a few days before the date new extension ends.

when submitting application for Visa Extension if the validity of passport of the applicant is not longer than one year left before expiry, the extension of stay will be permitted not exceeding the expired date of passport.

Edited August 28, 2013 by ubonjoe

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

They would not issue full extension with a passport that expires even a few days before the date new extension ends.

Yes, of course... At least a year remaining on the passport means... AT LEAST a year remaining... not a few days less than a year.

But as I pointed out above, since a person can apply for their new retirement extension up to 45 days prior to the expiry of their existing one, IMA could easily apply for his October 2014 extension sometime in September 2014, and have no problem with having more than a year remaining on his passport at that point.

But that would be cutting it close.. Now that Immigration has the new rule in place,it would suffice as I advised above just to get the new passport shortly before his Oct 2014 extension application and have the new 2014-2015 extension at that point stamped into his new passport...and still avoid having to make a separate trip for transferring existing stamps.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

I wonder how this will effect those that only have a couple of pages left in their passport. I have 2 pages and my passport expires in 2016. I need to get a new passport so will they transfer my extention over even tho my passport hasn't expired?

Sounds like it's time to get a new passport, or at least, have your consulate add pages to your existing book, if they'll do that.

If your consulate will add pages to your existing book, then you don't have to transfer anything or mess with Immigration.

But if you end up getting a new passport, Immigration ought to transfer over your current extension into your new passport book as a simple matter.

Bangkok CW Immigration did just that for me earlier this year for no fee. And there's no indication the rule change being discussed in this thread should change that process.

BTW, if your passport HAS actually expired, then there's nothing to transfer over...because any extensions inside would have died with the expiry of the passport.

Edited August 28, 2013 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[wilcopops]

If you find that suddenly you have to travel frequently the renewal of your passport can come as a bit of a surprise - so what will the policity be on this? The passport is nearly full but expires in several years?

I've had to renew my passport several times and this seems to be just another hurdle - that coincidentally costs - put up by immigration with no reall thought behind it.

Many of us who travel a lot can quickly fill a passport. my UK passport at one point was only available in small version - I now have the 50 page, but am amased at how fast it fills - especially with those ridiculous one page visas that are usually issued by tin-pot countries.

[ubonjoe]

I can't comprehend anybody allowing their passport getting low enough in validity that they could not get to immigration before it expires.

But there was a recent post where a persons passport had expired while they were still here.

But I do think immigration would do a transfer if a passport was expired. Valid visas remain valid so why would an extension not also be valid.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

I had a discussion on that point earlier this year with a supervisor at Bangkok Immigration.

He was very clear in advising that extensions of stay only remain valid as long as the passport hasn't yet reached its expiry date.

But more to the point, I'm trying to envision what kind of situation could exist where a person's passport would have an expiry date that's earlier than their extension of stay expiry date.

Normally, as illustrated by the topic in this thread, Immigration will only issue extensions for a one year period if there's a year or more left in a passport, or if there's less than a year remaining of passport validity, an extension of stay no longer than the passport's expiry date.

Edited August 28, 2013 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[ubonjoe]

 

If you find that suddenly you have to travel frequently the renewal of your passport can come as a bit of a surprise - so what will the policity be on this? The passport is nearly full but expires in several years?

I've had to renew my passport several times and this seems to be just another hurdle - that coincidentally costs - put up by immigration with no reall thought behind it.

Many of us who  travel a lot can quickly fill a passport. my UK passport at one point was only available in small version - I now have the 50 page, but am amased at how fast it fills - especially with those ridiculous one page visas that are usually issued by tin-pot countries. 

This new rule will have no effect for getting transfers done.

Only if your passport will expire before date new extension expires when you apply for it does it come into effect.

So is Thailand tin-pot because it uses full page visa stickers?

Perhaps if you are working you should consider getting a 2nd passport. The UK allows it. Then use one only for Thailand.

[Tchooptip]

My own passport will expire...July 2023

[ubonjoe]

My own passport will expire...July 2023

Same for me and I am all smiles because I decided to do it 9 months early. Did extension on the 14th of this month. Edited August 28, 2013 by ubonjoe

[merijn]

They would not issue full extension with a passport that expires even a few days before the date new extension ends.

Yes, of course... At least a year remaining on the passport means... AT LEAST a year remaining... not a few days less than a year.

But as I pointed out above, since a person can apply for their new retirement extension up to 45 days prior to the expiry of their existing one, IMA could easily apply for his October 2014 extension sometime in September 2014, and have no problem with having more than a year remaining on his passport at that point.

But that would be cutting it close.. Now that Immigration has the new rule in place,it would suffice as I advised above just to get the new passport shortly before his Oct 2014 extension application and have the new 2014-2015 extension at that point stamped into his new passport...and still avoid having to make a separate trip for transferring existing stamps.

Better check the time that you can renew your extension with your local immigration office.

For example Phuket immigration use 31 day as the limit you can renew your extension.

Edited August 28, 2013 by merijn

[IMA_FARANG]

To be exactly clear (see my other response in this topic) ....

1. My current U.S passport expires 14 October 2015.
2. My annual retirement extension would be due on 15 October 2015 (if I follow the same renewal schedule).
3. I normally do an annual "home visit" in July or August anyhow during the warm summer weather, just to see my brothers and sisters and take care of any business in the U.S. at that time.
4. So it looks like in 2014 I'll just get a new passport when I'm back in the U.S. for my annual visit anyhow. That will make my new passport valid until 2024.
5. Solves the problem nicely.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

They would not issue full extension with a passport that expires even a few days before the date new extension ends.

Yes, of course... At least a year remaining on the passport means... AT LEAST a year remaining... not a few days less than a year.

But as I pointed out above, since a person can apply for their new retirement extension up to 45 days prior to the expiry of their existing one, IMA could easily apply for his October 2014 extension sometime in September 2014, and have no problem with having more than a year remaining on his passport at that point.

But that would be cutting it close.. Now that Immigration has the new rule in place,it would suffice as I advised above just to get the new passport shortly before his Oct 2014 extension application and have the new 2014-2015 extension at that point stamped into his new passport...and still avoid having to make a separate trip for transferring existing stamps.

Better check the time that you can renew your extension with your local immigration office.

For example Phuket immigration use 31 day as the limit you can renew your extension.

It's always a good idea to confirm with one's local Immigration office.

Here's the thread on the change to a 45 days ahead application period, at least for BKK Immigration. In that thread, a member posted that Ayudhya was allowing the same. And another member posted that Hua Hin was allowing 60 days ahead.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/654656-retirement-visa-extension-the-date-you-can-apply-has-changed/

So I supposed it's possible...some offices are still working from the 30 days ahead window.

I just did my annual retirement extension at BKK recently, and applied in the period between 30 and 45 days ahead of my current extension's expiration. Perfectly fine...no problem.

Edited August 28, 2013 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[JLCrab]

To be exactly clear (see my other response in this topic) ....

1. My current U.S passport expires 14 October 2015.
2. My annual retirement extension would be due on 15 October 2015 (if I follow the same renewal schedule).
3. I normally do an annual "home visit" in July or August anyhow during the warm summer weather, just to see my brothers and sisters and take care of any business in the U.S. at that time.
4. So it looks like in 2014 I'll just get a new passport when I'm back in the U.S. for my annual visit anyhow. That will make my new passport valid until 2024.
5. Solves the problem nicely.

Rather than doing the passport renewal when in the USA in JUL/AUG 2014 and risk possible logistical complications, the easiest way IMHO to renew a passport is at one of the Consular Outreaches where you pay for the renewal, they hand carry it to the Embassy in Bangkok and then you can either pick it up in Bangkok or have them mail it back to you (pre-paid envelope) EMS in a few weeks.

[ubonjoe]

 To be exactly clear (see my other response in this topic) ....

• My current U.S passport expires 14 October 2015.
• My annual retirement extension would be due on 15 October 2015 (if I follow the same renewal schedule).
• I normally do an annual "home visit" in July or August anyhow during the warm summer weather, just to see my brothers and sisters and take care of any business in the U.S. at that time.
• So it looks like in 2014 I'll just get a new passport when I'm back in the U.S. for my annual visit anyhow. That will make my new passport valid until 2024.
• Solves the problem nicely.

 

That would work.

But you will find it cheaper and easier to get it here. In order to get same 2 week (here10 days in reality) turnaround in states it will cost you $60 extra for expedited service. Normal turnaround is 6 weeks.

[Ned]

Looks like if your passport has more than one year to run when you extend your visa then there isn't a problem. Hassles will only occur if the passoport expires during the term of the visa.....in which case you'll need to extend the visa again when you get a new passport. No transfer will be allowed. Seems pretty clear.

[wasisdn]

Let's try to make it more clear:

Old rule:

You have a passport valid till September 1. On January 1 you apply for a 1 year extension of stay. Immigration gives you an extension of stay till September 1 and tells you to return to immigration with a new passport before September 1. (If you come back after Sept 1 you don't have a valid permission to stay anymore and are fined for overstay).

You go back to immigration on 15 August with a new passport and immigration transfers all details to the new passport, in addition immigration gives you a new extension of stay, now till January 1 of next year for free.

New Rule:

You have a passport valid till September 1. On January 1 you apply for a 1 year extension of stay. Immigration gives you an extension of stay till September 1 and tells you to return to immigration with a new passport before September 1. (If you come back after Sept 1 you don't have a valid permission to stay anymore and are fined for overstay).

You go back to immigration on 15 of august. Immigration transfers the details of your old passport to the new passport. So far nothing has changed. Now comes the new part. Instead of immigration giving you a new permission to stay till January 1 of next year for free your extension of stay ends on September 1 and you have to apply for a new extension of stay with all necessary paperwork for the extension. You now get a new 1 year extension of stay valid till September 1 of next year and pay the usual fee of 1,900 baht for that.

thx Mario, this is clear so far but I still have 2 more questions.

1. I have get my Visa extensions in July 2013 and stamp until June 2014 (before the new rules came out) but my passport expiration date is in April 2014. Is this new rule only for those who get the visa extensions after 13. August 2013?

2. Whats about the work permit? Normaly I have done this every year together with my visa extension, but now my work permit is also stamp until June 2014...

1. You should not have gotten an extension till June 2014, only till april 2014. I think immigration made a mistake here. So i suspect they will follow the new rules and ask you to apply for a new extension of stay in April.

2. The work permit is no longer connected to the validity of your permisison to stay. In June 2014 you just renew the WP as usual, with the new passport ofcourse.

I think this is not a mistake. The officer do a very confusing stamp this time with 3 dates on it, I have never seen before.

At the bottom is the date uf issue July 2013 as normal but at the top (where is usually the expiry date) is a extra stamp written in thai with 2 dates on it. First one is June 2014 (expriation of 1 year visa) and the second is April 2014 (expiration of passport).

Just now I called the Immigration in Chachoengsao to ask about my case, they told me when I get my new passport just copy all pages from old passport, go there and they will transfer the visa until June 2014 to my new passport. Maybe they don't know about the new rule yet...lol

[ubonjoe]

 To be exactly clear (see my other response in this topic) ....

[*]My current U.S passport expires 14 October 2015.

Sniped

 

Rather than doing the passport renewal when in the USA in JUL/AUG 2014 and risk possible logistical complications, the easiest way IMHO to renew a passport is at one of the Consular Outreaches where you pay for the renewal, they hand carry it to the Embassy in Bangkok and then you can either pick it up in Bangkok or have them mail it back to you (pre-paid envelope) EMS in a few weeks.Problem with outreach is they keep your old passport and send it back with new one.

When you do it in Bangkok they give it back to you.

Plus I would be little a nervous waiting for EMS.

Did it last month. Bought tickets for 2 round trips (1500 baht each) to Bangkok back in March 15 days apart. Did income affidavit with new passport.

[harrry]

My British passport expires in March 2015. In my ignorance what is the earliest I can apply for a new one?

I would apply 7-8 months prior to expiry. The unused months will be credited to the new passport.

https://www.gov.uk/renew-adult-passport

Is that the way the British system works? The American system works differently.

I had a U.S. passport that was valid thru Nov. 2013... And when I applied for and was issued a replacement in June this year, the new 10 year period started with June 2013 and continued 10 years onward.

No unused months credited in my case.

Best talk to (what do you call them ) Congressman?

It is a clear rip off by the USA government !

Before you say rip off check how little a US passport costs compared to others.

[ubonjoe]

I lost 9 months of old US passport. That is only $5.25 lost based upon cost of it. Not even worth complaining about.

[ubonjoe]

I think this is not a mistake. The officer do a very confusing stamp this time with 3 dates on it, I have never seen before.

 

At the bottom is the date uf issue July 2013 as normal but at the top (where is usually the expiry date) is a extra stamp written in thai with 2 dates on it. First one is June 2014 (expriation of 1 year visa) and the second is April 2014 (expiration of passport).

Just now I called the Immigration in Chachoengsao to ask about my case, they told me when I get my new passport just copy all pages from old passport, go there and they will transfer the visa until June 2014 to my new passport. Maybe they don't know about the new rule yet...lol

Are you on a contract? That could be reason for early stamp.

You applied before new rule. No problem for transfer.

[JLCrab]

To be exactly clear (see my other response in this topic) ....

[*]My current U.S passport expires 14 October 2015.

Sniped

Rather than doing the passport renewal when in the USA in JUL/AUG 2014 and risk possible logistical complications, the easiest way IMHO to renew a passport is at one of the Consular Outreaches where you pay for the renewal, they hand carry it to the Embassy in Bangkok and then you can either pick it up in Bangkok or have them mail it back to you (pre-paid envelope) EMS in a few weeks.Problem with outreach is they keep your old passport and send it back with new one.

When you do it in Bangkok they give it back to you.

Plus I would be little a nervous waiting for EMS.

Did it last month. Bought tickets for 2 round trips (1500 baht each) to Bangkok back in March 15 days apart. Did income affidavit with new passport.

I might agree especially with the EMS return but at the Consular Outreaches plenty of guys do it -- personally if I could avoid a trip to the BKK Embassy let alone 2 I would consider it. I wouldn't consider to be without my old passport, unless I planned to check into a hotel, to be any hardship for 2-3 weeks.

Edited August 28, 2013 by JLCrab

[Mario2008]

Let's try to make it more clear:

Old rule:

You have a passport valid till September 1. On January 1 you apply for a 1 year extension of stay. Immigration gives you an extension of stay till September 1 and tells you to return to immigration with a new passport before September 1. (If you come back after Sept 1 you don't have a valid permission to stay anymore and are fined for overstay).

You go back to immigration on 15 August with a new passport and immigration transfers all details to the new passport, in addition immigration gives you a new extension of stay, now till January 1 of next year for free.

New Rule:

You have a passport valid till September 1. On January 1 you apply for a 1 year extension of stay. Immigration gives you an extension of stay till September 1 and tells you to return to immigration with a new passport before September 1. (If you come back after Sept 1 you don't have a valid permission to stay anymore and are fined for overstay).

You go back to immigration on 15 of august. Immigration transfers the details of your old passport to the new passport. So far nothing has changed. Now comes the new part. Instead of immigration giving you a new permission to stay till January 1 of next year for free your extension of stay ends on September 1 and you have to apply for a new extension of stay with all necessary paperwork for the extension. You now get a new 1 year extension of stay valid till September 1 of next year and pay the usual fee of 1,900 baht for that.

thx Mario, this is clear so far but I still have 2 more questions.

1. I have get my Visa extensions in July 2013 and stamp until June 2014 (before the new rules came out) but my passport expiration date is in April 2014. Is this new rule only for those who get the visa extensions after 13. August 2013?

2. Whats about the work permit? Normaly I have done this every year together with my visa extension, but now my work permit is also stamp until June 2014...

1. You should not have gotten an extension till June 2014, only till april 2014. I think immigration made a mistake here. So i suspect they will follow the new rules and ask you to apply for a new extension of stay in April.

2. The work permit is no longer connected to the validity of your permisison to stay. In June 2014 you just renew the WP as usual, with the new passport ofcourse.

I think this is not a mistake. The officer do a very confusing stamp this time with 3 dates on it, I have never seen before.

At the bottom is the date uf issue July 2013 as normal but at the top (where is usually the expiry date) is a extra stamp written in thai with 2 dates on it. First one is June 2014 (expriation of 1 year visa) and the second is April 2014 (expiration of passport).

Just now I called the Immigration in Chachoengsao to ask about my case, they told me when I get my new passport just copy all pages from old passport, go there and they will transfer the visa until June 2014 to my new passport. Maybe they don't know about the new rule yet...lol

That probaly says that when you come with your new passport you get an extension of stay till June 2014 and that in the mean time you have an extension till April 2014.

[ubonjoe]

To be exactly clear (see my other response in this topic) ....

[*]My current U.S passport expires 14 October 2015.

Sniped

Rather than doing the passport renewal when in the USA in JUL/AUG 2014 and risk possible logistical complications, the easiest way IMHO to renew a passport is at one of the Consular Outreaches where you pay for the renewal, they hand carry it to the Embassy in Bangkok and then you can either pick it up in Bangkok or have them mail it back to you (pre-paid envelope) EMS in a few weeks.

Problem with outreach is they keep your old passport and send it back with new one.

When you do it in Bangkok they give it back to you.

Plus I would be little a nervous waiting for EMS.

Did it last month. Bought tickets for 2 round trips (1500 baht each) to Bangkok back in March 15 days apart. Did income affidavit with new passport.

I might agree especially with the EMS return but at the Consular Outreaches plenty of guys do it -- personally if I could avoid a trip to the BKK Embassy let alone 2 I would consider it. I wouldn't consider to be without my old passport, unless I planned to check into a hotel, to be any hardship for 2-3 weeks.Out reach here is once a year in January. I considered one in June at KK but cost and time spent was more than one day trip to BKK. The 2nd trip would of been needed anyway for income affidavit.

Edited August 28, 2013 by ubonjoe

[JLCrab]

Skipping the nested quotes, someone living in Ubon could get their passport renewal and income affidavit for retirement extension at ONE visit to a US Consular Outreach of the 2 each year in Khon Kaen and 2 each year Udon if using the return by EMS service besides the once a year visit to Ubon.

http://bangkok.usembassy.gov/consular_outreach.html

[tonneke breda]

With this fee- income, the government tries to cover-up the lost of the rice-sceme