Help! Electric jolt while loading washing machine

[Bpuumike]

Everyone seems to have missed the most obvious question, how much do you like your wife?

What a lot of whoo Haa over nothing .....Buy a new one or get your old one fixed ......why all the drama! The machine looks like its seen better days anyhow!

You talking about the washing machine or wife? Mine insists on being dual, in fact multi-purpose.

No offence intended, it's that time of night. :-)

[jackflash]

> Your statement is completely untrue about polarity. If your statement is true then how do you explain 3 phase motors or appliances? Try switching ANY of those connections and you could potentially fry your devise.

Of course swapping wires around will cause problems, but the concept of DC polarity has absolutely no bearing on AC and phasing

If you don't understand the fundamental differences between AC and DC, then there is no way I can educate you here.

Edited September 8, 2013 by jackflash

[Forkinhades]

Ah what a delighful read on a Sunday afternoon.

All the usual suspects I see, with a couple of newcomers.

Everything it seems has been covered.

Just like to add that on TT systems you should be installing RCBO\RCD\EFLI or whatever name you have for earth leakage devices in your country, as a priority, and indeed first instance, then you add can some earth cables if you desire.

[thaibeachlovers]

Obvious question why has the shower room got

electrical outlets anyway!? thats a really stupid

thing to do,and could easily result in death.

When our house was getting built,the sparky

wanted to put the light switch inside the

bathroom! they have no idea just how lethal

electricity can be, for some of them a 3 inch nail

knocked into the wall with earth wire wrapped

around it is a good job!, anyway I got some pull

light switches from UK and fitted them.

If you can you need to move the washer outside

if possible,AND make sure its earthed,electricity

and water do not mix.

regards Worgeordie

Yeah that's right keep the machine outside . The hot sun ,wind ,rain and elements do wonders for the machines longevity oh not to mention safety too .The rats get fried first Light switches outside the bathroom !!!....

Rubbish. I moved our WM outside to make more room in the kitchen, and have not had any problems.

OBVIOUSLY, the machine is under cover and I added a rat proof steel mesh under the machine, plus ecased the power cord in a rat proof pipe.

[Nooky2]

> Your statement is completely untrue about polarity. If your statement is true then how do you explain 3 phase motors or appliances? Try switching ANY of those connections and you could potentially fry your devise.

Of course swapping wires around will cause problems, but the concept of DC polarity has absolutely no bearing on AC and phasing

If you don't understand the fundamental differences between AC and DC, then there is no way I can educate you here.

I said nothing about DC polarity in this paraphrase. Going by your previous statements here I would say you shouldn't attempt to educate anyone.

[Crossy]

OK chaps.

Enough of the sniping, let's not get into an argument over posters competence (or lack of same). I've got my finger on the 'holiday' button.

Our OP has solved his problem and now has a safer washer (I say safer as he still appears to have no RCD).

[wayned]

Push the button! Whoever gets zapped after all of this is their own fault and, hopefully, won't wake up dead!

[tropo]

OK chaps.

Enough of the sniping, let's not get into an argument over posters competence (or lack of same). I've got my finger on the 'holiday' button.

Our OP has solved his problem and now has a safer washer (I say safer as he still appears to have no RCD).

I have current breakers on my mains fuse board. Is this what you are referring to?

[Crossy]

OK chaps.

Enough of the sniping, let's not get into an argument over posters competence (or lack of same). I've got my finger on the 'holiday' button.

Our OP has solved his problem and now has a safer washer (I say safer as he still appears to have no RCD).

I have current breakers on my mains fuse board. Is this what you are referring to?

Not necessarily, an RCD provides protection from electric shock (if you touch a live wire for instance). You can easily tell one as it will have a 'Test' button. I suspect you do not as your earth test with a lamp didn't trip a breaker.

Installing one will be the next step in improving your electrics (I know you're in a rental so you may not wish to do too much).

A photo of your distribution board would help us point you in the right direction.

[tropo]

OK chaps.

Enough of the sniping, let's not get into an argument over posters competence (or lack of same). I've got my finger on the 'holiday' button.

Our OP has solved his problem and now has a safer washer (I say safer as he still appears to have no RCD).

I have current breakers on my mains fuse board. Is this what you are referring to?

Not necessarily, an RCD provides protection from electric shock (if you touch a live wire for instance). You can easily tell one as it will have a 'Test' button. I suspect you do not as your earth test with a lamp didn't trip a breaker.

Installing one will be the next step in improving your electrics (I know you're in a rental so you may not wish to do too much).

A photo of your distribution board would help us point you in the right direction.

The fuse for the washing machine is the bottom one on the right side.

Edited September 9, 2013 by tropo

[ignis]

Yesterday went out to buy and brought home on the back of my pickup another large 13.5 Q is what Thailand calls large and in stock, Panasonic chest deep Freeze.......... electric plug is 2 pin, but there is a long coil of green 'earth cable' the seller said it get shock attach green cable to a metal pipe..............!!!.

it is 2013 words fail me, would it not have been easier just to fit a earth into the plug ?

[Crossy]

@ignis, crazy isn't it?

@tropo
You currently have no earth-leakage protection. Your installation is TT (not MEN). If you have a good earth then a short L-E will possibly open one of the MCBs but if you touch a live wire, you die.

Water heaters are by far the most deadly of items found in Thai electrical installations.
Is your water heater grounded? Does it have a built-in RCD (ELCB)?
If the answer is yes to both questions you are reasonably safe.

The next step in improving safety would be to add RCD protection to your board.

Probably the easiest option would be to add a front end Safe-T-Cut RCBO, the 63A version of this one http://www.safe-t-cut.com/SAFE-T-CUT%20Special%20A%203P.htm?name=product&file=readproduct&id=30 your local sparks should be able to install it with no problem. No idea of the cost though.

BTIcino do make a bolt on RCD unit for your main switch, but whether it's readily available in Thailand, and how easy it would be to install in your board I don't know. I also note that the bus-bar cover is missing from your distribution board

[ignis]

@ Crossy

Yes I have a front end Safe-T-Cut ........

​The main problem is the Electrical engineer.......... adding this unit is one thing I did not do myself, the electrician was from the electric board, came in the big orange truck and fitted.......... so all is good ? well no I am sure it is not, maybe one day will sort it out myself....

Long before the installation of the Safe-T-Cut I ran a cable to outside so all the outside plugs pumps etc are on 1x switch........ now switch that switch off outside is still live........ press the red button on the Safe-T-Cut then is out....... NOT want I want at all...........

The most odd thing of all......... when the house was built 10 years ago had 2 Air Con units fitted, they were fitted via a spare switch on the breaker box, now after the installation of the Safe-T-Cut this switch makes no different + switch off the Safe-T-Cut and the Air Con units will still work !!!!!!! ??

I never use Air Con anyway but totally fail to see how the electrician could have made such a mess up... [not using had no idea until at least 2 years later]

[wpcoe]

@tropo

You currently have no earth-leakage protection. Your installation is TT (not MEN). If you have a good earth then a short L-E will possibly open one of the MCBs but if you touch a live wire, you die.

Cr@p. I'm still not getting it. It looks like Tropo's main switch in the CU has a reset button and even a screw for adjusting the milli-amp amount that would trip it. Isn't that an ELCB for his main switch? I thought an ELCB switch would be all he needed. But, he *also* needs a front-end RCBO?

[Crossy]

Cr@p. I'm still not getting it. It looks like Tropo's main switch in the CU has a reset button and even a screw for adjusting the milli-amp amount that would trip it. Isn't that an ELCB for his main switch? I thought an ELCB switch would be all he needed. But, he *also* needs a front-end RCBO?

Yeah, I saw that which is why I looked up the device in the BTicino catalog, from what I can see it's a plain 63A MCB.

I'd love to be proved wrong, but he did connect a lamp L-E when testing his earth and the breaker didn't trip. A 3-phase RCD or RCBO also needs to monitor the neutral current, the neutral goes nowhere near the main switch device.

An ELCB is an old name for an RCD (technically it's a different device but we won't worry about that). An RCBO provides overload protection as well as leakage. He really only needs an RCD but Safe-T-Cut don't do one and 3-phase RCDs seem to be like hens teeth in Thailand.

[tropo]

@ignis, crazy isn't it?

@tropo

You currently have no earth-leakage protection. Your installation is TT (not MEN). If you have a good earth then a short L-E will possibly open one of the MCBs but if you touch a live wire, you die.

Water heaters are by far the most deadly of items found in Thai electrical installations.

Is your water heater grounded? Does it have a built-in RCD (ELCB)?

If the answer is yes to both questions you are reasonably safe.

The next step in improving safety would be to add RCD protection to your board.

Probably the easiest option would be to add a front end Safe-T-Cut RCBO, the 63A version of this one http://www.safe-t-cut.com/SAFE-T-CUT%20Special%20A%203P.htm?name=product&file=readproduct&id=30 your local sparks should be able to install it with no problem. No idea of the cost though.

BTIcino do make a bolt on RCD unit for your main switch, but whether it's readily available in Thailand, and how easy it would be to install in your board I don't know. I also note that the bus-bar cover is missing from your distribution board

Damn!... and I thought I was safe after adding the Schuko plug adapter.

Most of this doesn't make much sense... I'm just a regular guy who turns appliances on and off. I had no idea there were so many things to worry about...

I'll take my chances and let it ride as it's only a rental. Thanks for all your help.

[Crossy]

Please check your water heater mate!

Otherwise I would be tempted to leave alone too if I was renting.

[tropo]

Please check your water heater mate!

Otherwise I would be tempted to leave alone too if I was renting.

The shower water heaters are attached to the wall high up near the ceiling. No switches visible.

[Crossy]

Please check your water heater mate!

Otherwise I would be tempted to leave alone too if I was renting.

The shower water heaters are attached to the wall high up near the ceiling. No switches visible.

Can you get a decent photo of said items with the lid on and off??

So we can see exactly what you have.

Any idea what the pipe between the heater and shower head is made of?

[jocko]

@ignis, crazy isn't it?

 

@tropo

You currently have no earth-leakage protection. Your installation is TT (not MEN). If you have a good earth then a short L-E will possibly open one of the MCBs but if you touch a live wire, you die.

 

Water heaters are by far the most deadly of items found in Thai electrical installations.

Is your water heater grounded? Does it have a built-in RCD (ELCB)?

If the answer is yes to both questions you are reasonably safe.

 

The next step in improving safety would be to add RCD protection to your board.

 

Probably the easiest option would be to add a front end Safe-T-Cut RCBO, the 63A version of this one http://www.safe-t-cut.com/SAFE-T-CUT%20Special%20A%203P.htm?name=product&file=readproduct&id=30 your local sparks should be able to install it with no problem. No idea of the cost though.

 

BTIcino do make a bolt on RCD unit for your main switch, but whether it's readily available in Thailand, and how easy it would be to install in your board I don't know. I also note that the bus-bar cover is missing from your distribution board 

dam_n!... and I thought I was safe after adding the Schuko plug adapter.

 

Most of this doesn't make much sense... I'm just a regular guy who turns appliances on and off. I had no idea there were so many things to worry about...

 

I'll take my chances and let it ride as it's only a rental. Thanks for all your help.

I am reading this post in the UK at this time there is great advice been posted and when I get back to my house in Thailand I am going to have a check of the sockets etc.

I'm not looking forward to it.

Mind you I Think I know a good electrician .

[h90]

Yesterday went out to buy and brought home on the back of my pickup another large 13.5 Q is what Thailand calls large and in stock, Panasonic chest deep Freeze.......... electric plug is 2 pin, but there is a long coil of green 'earth cable' the seller said it get shock attach green cable to a metal pipe..............!!!.

it is 2013 words fail me, would it not have been easier just to fit a earth into the plug ?

We have also a few devices with 2 pin connector and the green wire. Usually the Thais just cut it off .

But I must admit that it might be a good idea from Panasonic and the others. They know most of their customer plug it in a 2 pin socket or the third is not connected (or worse).

(My wifes house has no single 3 pin connector). Adding that green wire helps.

Connecting to the metal pipe....hmpf....

[ignis]

Yes understand, just a chest Freezer is not a everyday household Thai thing......

Was always amazed that you could buy things with 3 cables inside, but the plug is a flat 2 pin with the green cable coming out the side with a crocodile clip on it...

Just never thought that some houses would not have 3 pin sockets

Edited September 11, 2013 by ignis

[wpcoe]

dam_n!... and I thought I was safe after adding the Schuko plug adapter.

Most of this doesn't make much sense... I'm just a regular guy who turns appliances on and off. I had no idea there were so many things to worry about...

+1 from me, loud and clear. I've been following, and trying to understand, threads like this for a few years now, and once I seem to understand a tiny part, a whole set of new considerations pops up.

I live alone and feel somewhat that the risk I've taken by not fixing up everything sooner, is all my own. If I had a GF/BF/wife, roommate, much less a family, I'd probably have been more motivated to do something earlier.

With everybody's help, I was able to determine that my rented townhouse in Hua Hin has an earth/ground wire trailing out of the house and into the soil. Tracing wires I found that my water heaters, outdoors water pump and indoors outlets for my washing machine and hot plate were earthed/grounded. I actually added an earth wire to, and replaced, the outlet where I plug in my computer. It took many messages, but it got through to me and I got it done.

Now, I'm starting from scratch and fixing the electrics in my Jomtien condo, and it seems like I'm in kindergarten again, but plan to persevere this time.

I encourage you to hang in here a bit longer, and check out your water heaters as suggested by Crossy. Over the years I can recall reading articles of people dying in their showers from electric faults. In fact there was one farang couple that died together.

Back in our home countries, we would barely give a second thought to hiring an electrician and saying: "Ground everything and fix anything you find wrong." But, here we are in Thailand...

[thaibeachlovers]

Yesterday went out to buy and brought home on the back of my pickup another large 13.5 Q is what Thailand calls large and in stock, Panasonic chest deep Freeze.......... electric plug is 2 pin, but there is a long coil of green 'earth cable' the seller said it get shock attach green cable to a metal pipe..............!!!.

it is 2013 words fail me, would it not have been easier just to fit a earth into the plug ?

The house I live in had no earth wire and no 3 pin sockets before I moved in.

When my wife's nephew visited, he broke the earth pin off my expensive power strip plug because he was too stupid/ ignorant to ask me for an adaptor. Words failed me!!!!

[tropo]

Yesterday went out to buy and brought home on the back of my pickup another large 13.5 Q is what Thailand calls large and in stock, Panasonic chest deep Freeze.......... electric plug is 2 pin, but there is a long coil of green 'earth cable' the seller said it get shock attach green cable to a metal pipe..............!!!.

it is 2013 words fail me, would it not have been easier just to fit a earth into the plug ?

The house I live in had no earth wire and no 3 pin sockets before I moved in.

When my wife's nephew visited, he broke the earth pin off my expensive power strip plug because he was too stupid/ ignorant to ask me for an adaptor. Words failed me!!!!

That would have been extremely annoying.

[jbrain]

Please check your water heater mate!

Otherwise I would be tempted to leave alone too if I was renting.

The shower water heaters are attached to the wall high up near the ceiling. No switches visible.

Do they look anything like this, then I agree there are no worries.

[tropo]

Please check your water heater mate!

Otherwise I would be tempted to leave alone too if I was renting.

The shower water heaters are attached to the wall high up near the ceiling. No switches visible.

Do they look anything like this, then I agree there are no worries.

electric-shower.jpg

No, there are no visible wires. I shall post some photos later on.

[bangkokheat]

if your electric power plug doesnt fit tight in your power outlet you have a great chance of being zaped, i have seen it hapen and experienced same from a new washing machine, fixed the problem, no more zaps

[thaibeachlovers]

Yesterday went out to buy and brought home on the back of my pickup another large 13.5 Q is what Thailand calls large and in stock, Panasonic chest deep Freeze.......... electric plug is 2 pin, but there is a long coil of green 'earth cable' the seller said it get shock attach green cable to a metal pipe..............!!!.

it is 2013 words fail me, would it not have been easier just to fit a earth into the plug ?

The house I live in had no earth wire and no 3 pin sockets before I moved in.

When my wife's nephew visited, he broke the earth pin off my expensive power strip plug because he was too stupid/ ignorant to ask me for an adaptor. Words failed me!!!!

That would have been extremely annoying.

It was indeed.

[jocko]

In the UK you can buy single RCD plug in's or sockets are they available in Thailand and would they cure getting a buzz from shower or washing machine?