Epic Fail?........Or A Bump In The Road?......

[ToddWeston]

Obesity is a very complex problem and it's a problem that is growing rapidly internationally. People who think it's only a simple matter of "will power" are simply totally WRONG. I think will power is but ONE factor among many.

You have to burn more calories than you take in. What could be simpler? Anything else if psycho-babble.

Sorry it's not as simple as that - these folks suffer a lot more than we do and deserve a little respect for trying. in some cases it's an addiction and yes we're sympathetic to alcholics and gamblers, for others it's their genetic metoblism and for some it's the crap fast food and for many it's medical and meds - whatever the case I'd like my fat friends to be around as long as my skinny friends so let's try to help instead of criticize.

Sorry, but I don't see it that way. I sympathize with those with afflictions, whether it be drugs, alcohol, food or some other dependency. That fact remains that aside from psychological dependency, these folks have the power to change their lives. No one else is going to do it for them. Sorry if that offends you, but I would rather have someone be honest with me as apposed to blowing smoke up my skirt. Sometimes people need a rude awakening to set them on the right path as apposed to be coddled and told it's not their fault. We all control our own destiny.

Fair enough, point taken and I'm not offended. Everyone knows if they are considered short, tall, handsome, obese, funny or a social gadfly - in most cases they don't need telling.

Next time you see someone who is rather corpulent walk up to them and ask them if they know they have the power to change their lives .....

Peace

[robblok]

@todd

Loptr might be blunt but I was overweight and I know for a fact that the only one who will help you loose the weight is yourself. Once you make a decision and you want it bad enough you can do it. But you should do it because you want to not because what others think.

[Jingthing]

I totally agree. It absolutely has to come from the individual. You can't shame fat people into action. But even when it comes from the individual, and strongly, sorry, the reality still exists of MASSIVE long term failure rates. So more medical help is needed. I think it's coming. There won't be a magic solution but there will be BETTER and safer ways to make this MUCH EASIER. More in the line of a manageable lifetime condition like asthma that you can live with for life with some medical tweaks than it is now where the vast majority of obese adults will be obese for life except when they yoyo down temporarily. But in the here and now all we've got is the here and now. So that largely means yes calorie restriction and exercise which mostly fails long term, or for the very obese, surgery, which is no picnic. In case that wasn't clear, with this model if a person has EVER been obese and they manage to lose weight and keep it off (yes, that is rare) they should never be considered the same as a regular normal weight person. They are still an obese person waiting to happen. I think medical therapies are coming to make that not happen as often as it does now. Now sadly with any given person you can bet your money that it will happen and win most every time. Seriously, if that could be improved even to 50 percent it would be fantastic.

Edited September 9, 2013 by Jingthing

[Dancealot]

I think the real way to loose any serious amount of weight is a complete life style change.

Worrying might be easier!

On the light side, I think you have got a valid point, GH.

Solution to weight problem: Get it on with a girl you'll really love and expect to be unfaithful to you repeatedly. A dangerous girl...The trick is you have to fool yourself first...

Then the rest is easy and you can start worrying about her and loose the weight. Simple!

I am an idealist....

[Dancealot]

@todd

Loptr might be blunt but I was overweight and I know for a fact that the only one who will help you loose the weight is yourself. Once you make a decision and you want it bad enough you can do it. But you should do it because you want to not because what others think.

You realist .

[theblether]

Good point again JT.

There must be a link between obesity and the rise in artificially manufactured foodstuffs. Caffeine is added to too many things to cause addiction for example.

To me governments should be enforcing strict maximum fat and calorie contents on manufactured foods and prosecuting companies that add addictive substances. The civil libertarian argument that people should be allowed to eat what they want needs to set against teams of scientists testing and creating ever more addictive Frankenstein foods.

[ToddWeston]

Good point again JT.

There must be a link between obesity and the rise in artificially manufactured foodstuffs. Caffeine is added to too many things to cause addiction for example.

To me governments should be enforcing strict maximum fat and calorie contents on manufactured foods and prosecuting companies that add addictive substances. The civil libertarian argument that people should be allowed to eat what they want needs to set against teams of scientists testing and creating ever more addictive Frankenstein foods.

I agree - it's what's in our food and their should be a better rating system. I'm 48 and when I look at school pictures when I was in the UK or then Canada there was very little obesity, now I look at the same age group and it's 30% and more is some regions.

I also blame our cooking habits - I love salmon but I'll admit I only know how to prepare it a couple of ways yet the older generation could make it last a couple of meals using it many different recipes and were all home cooked meals without the additives in todays food. We've become anti leftovers because we demand variety and have become lazy to learn - i still remember shepherds pie for lunch on Wednesdsys, which started out as Sundays roast supper.

I think the concept of policing additives is good for people with weight concerns but also the general public - the caloric labels work but need to go deeper.

[theblether]

Yup, after the recent trans fat debacle I think it's now imperative that the FDA and others take an attitude of demanding why each ingredient has been added to artificial manufacturing procedures. The manufacturers should be held to a pristine standard re ingredient accountability.

There must be a connection between Frankenstein foods and obesity. Walk into any convenience store these days and you will struggle to find any natural food. Where Frankenstein foods go obesity follows, as we can see by the explosive growth of obesity in Asia.

[robblok]

Of course its our food, food is more available and more caloric dense then before. Not to mention high fructose corn syrup is reputed not to be good for you and gets you fat easy. I try to prepare as much food as I can myself to keep control.

I am always going on about calories but i also believe that some things are a lot worse for you and calories don't tell the whole story though fact remains burn versus consumption. But some things might influence the burn quite negative.

[poanoi]

One thing that will influence fat/burn is testosteron and estrogen levels,

i suggest checking out that, cost is 600 + 500 baht IIRC,

there are medicine that prevent the conversion from testosteron into estrogen,

and as an extra, its good for mood, muscles, and the bone

Thyroid tests should clearly be a top priority for those that has obvious problems

Edited September 10, 2013 by poanoi

[itchybum]

and along with that convenience food is the single use throw away packaging.

Never before has there been so much rubbish on our beaches and in our rivers and oceans.

And all it has achieved is make the population fat.

[theblether]

One thing that will influence fat/burn is testosteron and estrogen levels,

i suggest checking out that, cost is 600 + 500 baht IIRC,

there are medicine that prevent the conversion from testosteron into estrogen,

and as an extra, its good for mood, muscles, and the bone

Thyroid tests should clearly be a top priority for those that has obvious problems

That's top of the agenda poanoi, I'll be going for a battery of tests at some point over the next few days. If the results come back with anything concerning then I'll need to deal with it, if not then it just goes to show it's all down to me.

I believe the McCormack hospital in CM runs a good check up and testing facility, I'll double check with my Doctor here and go under his guidance.

[geriatrickid]

I totally agree. It absolutely has to come from the individual. You can't shame fat people into action. But even when it comes from the individual, and strongly, sorry, the reality still exists of MASSIVE long term failure rates. So more medical help is needed. I think it's coming. There won't be a magic solution but there will be BETTER and safer ways to make this MUCH EASIER. More in the line of a manageable lifetime condition like asthma that you can live with for life with some medical tweaks than it is now where the vast majority of obese adults will be obese for life except when they yoyo down temporarily. But in the here and now all we've got is the here and now. So that largely means yes calorie restriction and exercise which mostly fails long term, or for the very obese, surgery, which is no picnic. In case that wasn't clear, with this model if a person has EVER been obese and they manage to lose weight and keep it off (yes, that is rare) they should never be considered the same as a regular normal weight person. They are still an obese person waiting to happen. I think medical therapies are coming to make that not happen as often as it does now. Now sadly with any given person you can bet your money that it will happen and win most every time. Seriously, if that could be improved even to 50 percent it would be fantastic.

Sorry, but your premise is wrong. I want to agree with you, I really do as my life would be so much easier if there was a magic pill to pop but there isn't.

Why is it we have an obesity problem now? Was there an obesity problem in 1925 in the USA, Australia or EU? I don't think so. It is because we have made everyday life too easy. In the old days, people took the stairs or did some manual labour. It's that simple. If we want to eat all this fatty food, then we have to undertake the activity that will burn it off. We do have choices. I am addicted to Doritos. Should I really be eating those empty calories? No. I also like ice cream. Should I be eating so much of it? no.

No medical treatment can correct my deviant behaviour. Only I can change my behaviour.

The last time there was a medical miracle cure for obesity, it involved amphetamines and we know how well that turned out.

[poanoi]

well as a matter of fact there is a magic pill, ruffly the full equivalent of the fountain of youth,

tho perhaps better nicknamed fountain of sweat, or fountain of fat loss, its DNP, 20+ kg fat loss

in a few weeks

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/660926-vaser-liposuction-the-diary-of-a-vain-man/#entry6731200

i shit you not i drop 0.5 kg fat per day, while eating as normal, which would be twice the amount you eat,

admittedly i sweat over 12 times as you ever did during the clensing

Edited September 10, 2013 by poanoi

[soi41]

@ blether.

Despite your awareness about your problem, you still keep jumping the fence at its lowest point!

To train Muya Thai to loose weight? Give us a break, it might be "sexy" and give you the attention you seem to crave, but a tool for weightloss?? Especially if you follow it up with a good dinner and a few drinks, which according to your posts here is high on your list of priorities.

Going to a temple for meditation, yeah sure ! Nice easy way to "adress the problem". IMO that is avoiding the real issue. You can tell yourself, that you are doing something about it, without really doing anything.

Same goes for the test you are going to have. Without being a doctor, I can tell you your PB is too high, your bloodsugarlevel is to high, your cholesterollevel to high. Again doing something without really doing anything. You have to realise, there is no intellectual solution to your problem! Only hard work with a lot of suffering along the way. And you are on your own.

As for blaming the foodindustry, typical for any addict to blame someone else. You have access to excactly the same (healthy) food as I have. (180 cm, 73 kg)

Several posters here have mentioned, the problem with keeping weight off after loosing it. So I checked how the winners of "The Biggest Loser" had managed after the program. 13 of 15 had managed to keep their new low weight several years after "their" season. So instead of going to Thailand next time, maybe a bootcamp in the US would solve your problems?

I hope you read my post in the right spirit, an atempt to help.

Even if I have no experience with overweight, I used to be addicted to alcohol until 7 years ago, where I finally managed to quit. A long and very bumpy road to get there!

Wish you the best of luck!

[theblether]

I've got no problem with your post, thanks very much.

ps I see your grammar is getting better

[ToddWeston]

@ blether.

Despite your awareness about your problem, you still keep jumping the fence at its lowest point!

To train Muya Thai to loose weight? Give us a break, it might be "sexy" and give you the attention you seem to crave, but a tool for weightloss?? Especially if you follow it up with a good dinner and a few drinks, which according to your posts here is high on your list of priorities.

Going to a temple for meditation, yeah sure ! Nice easy way to "adress the problem". IMO that is avoiding the real issue. You can tell yourself, that you are doing something about it, without really doing anything.

Same goes for the test you are going to have. Without being a doctor, I can tell you your PB is too high, your bloodsugarlevel is to high, your cholesterollevel to high. Again doing something without really doing anything. You have to realise, there is no intellectual solution to your problem! Only hard work with a lot of suffering along the way. And you are on your own.

As for blaming the foodindustry, typical for any addict to blame someone else. You have access to excactly the same (healthy) food as I have. (180 cm, 73 kg)

Several posters here have mentioned, the problem with keeping weight off after loosing it. So I checked how the winners of "The Biggest Loser" had managed after the program. 13 of 15 had managed to keep their new low weight several years after "their" season. So instead of going to Thailand next time, maybe a bootcamp in the US would solve your problems?

I hope you read my post in the right spirit, an atempt to help.

Even if I have no experience with overweight, I used to be addicted to alcohol until 7 years ago, where I finally managed to quit. A long and very bumpy road to get there!

Wish you the best of luck![/quot

It shouldn't never be about blaming the person - never ever. I've written scripts for people with anerexia nervosa for BP. I admit there are serious health factors to be considered but let's move on..... it's so much more than telling people to get off their arse or being inspired by a silly television show.

IMHO with 8 years of pharmacy education including a Doctorate - I do blame the food industry for a lot of this disease.

[itchybum]

You can blame the food industry, but Ronald Mac does not hand feed you, nor drive you to his many fine establishments.

[canman]

You can blame the food industry, but Ronald Mac does not hand feed you, nor drive you to his many fine establishments.

This is the salient point. The cigarette industry does not force you to smoke the crap food manufacturers do not force you to eat their garbage. It's all about personal choice. I read that there are so called fresh food deserts in the inner cities of america where people dont have much choice but to eat mass manufactured garbage but thats not the case here. We all have access to all the fresh unprocessed food we want so it comes down to personal choice.

Either you make the lifestyle changes you need to make or you don't, it really is that simple. Having a full on medical checkup is a good start, make sure you get a stress test, Ankle Brachial Index and heart CT. Also as much blood work as you can get.

Once you are faced with the stark reality of what the numbers and pictures tell you it can be a great motivator. You never know, you may be one of the lucky ones whose numbers are good even when over weight and not fit. If you're not then you owe it to yourself to find out.

[ToddWeston]

You can blame the food industry, but Ronald Mac does not hand feed you, nor drive you to his many fine establishments.

The King, the clown and the colonel have changed the entire food chain. Huge demand and processing the lowest quality food with genetically modified, chemically enhanced meat is in the mainstream food supply. Again it's more complex than blaming the person for what they consume - 99% of people on the weight loss path would never dream of eating at these places.

[robblok]

You can blame the food industry, but Ronald Mac does not hand feed you, nor drive you to his many fine establishments.

The King, the clown and the colonel have changed the entire food chain. Huge demand and processing the lowest quality food with genetically modified, chemically enhanced meat is in the mainstream food supply. Again it's more complex than blaming the person for what they consume - 99% of people on the weight loss path would never dream of eating at these places.

I believe it more complex, for some people it requires a lot more willpower as for others. I sometimes get cravings that i can't control and then I go for a peanut butter sandwich. (ok not the worst you can do). But still other people never have cravings I saw a nice documentary about that that some people get them more as others.

Anyway there is something called sibutramine that did work in my case.. but the side effects (not sleeping good) plus it did not stay effective for real long made me stop it.

[ToddWeston]

You can blame the food industry, but Ronald Mac does not hand feed you, nor drive you to his many fine establishments.

The King, the clown and the colonel have changed the entire food chain. Huge demand and processing the lowest quality food with genetically modified, chemically enhanced meat is in the mainstream food supply. Again it's more complex than blaming the person for what they consume - 99% of people on the weight loss path would never dream of eating at these places.

I believe it more complex, for some people it requires a lot more willpower as for others. I sometimes get cravings that i can't control and then I go for a peanut butter sandwich. (ok not the worst you can do). But still other people never have cravings I saw a nice documentary about that that some people get them more as others.

Anyway there is something called sibutramine that did work in my case.. but the side effects (not sleeping good) plus it did not stay effective for real long made me stop it.

Agreed its more complex and any encouragement we can give to people who face this disease should be paramount.

FYI - sibutramine is no longer available in Canada, USA, Thailand, Australia, EU and the UK it was pulled over safety concerns a few years back - I'm glad it helped you without some of the known issues.

Edited September 11, 2013 by ToddWeston

[robblok]

It helped.. but i was only on it shortly.. like weeks. One of the side effects was lack of sleep. I cant live with that otherwise no side effects but i really love my sleep. But the thing is with many of those products they retract its a minority with problems that might have overused a product. I am all for a on case to case base of it.

[theblether]

Well I went on a fast so that I could get my bloods tested etc this morning. I'm looking for the whole battery of tests to be done in that regard including obviously diabetes, heart, sexual health, BP etc

I was expecting the Doctor at 10.00am, got kicked out of my room so they could clean it at 10.20, sat in the cafe, had a sip of water then was told that my tests couldn't go ahead. I didn't know that a glass of water would throw the tests out?

Anyway reschedule for tomorrow morning at 9.30.

[ToddWeston]

Well I went on a fast so that I could get my bloods tested etc this morning. I'm looking for the whole battery of tests to be done in that regard including obviously diabetes, heart, sexual health, BP etc

I was expecting the Doctor at 10.00am, got kicked out of my room so they could clean it at 10.20, sat in the cafe, had a sip of water then was told that my tests couldn't go ahead. I didn't know that a glass of water would throw the tests out?

Anyway reschedule for tomorrow morning at 9.30.

Yes NPO - Nils Per Os - Nothing my mouth is important. If they are doing an ultrasound of your liver or other tests it could change the results. Surgery is open for debate but that's too much information.

Good luck tomorrow

[lapd]

Why do people come to Thailand and think they can remake themselves? You can change the place but you can't change the person. It's just a crutch that is all in your head.

Edited September 11, 2013 by lapd

[nontabury]

I've never understood how many people blame their self induced obesity on thyroid problems etc.

If you look at photo's of those unfortunate people in the concentration camps, or victims of famine in Ethiopia/ Biafra you will not see anybody overweight. The answer to me is quite simple, it's what you eat and in what quantities,coupled with how much exercise you do,decides your weight, admittedly this is easier for some, but the principle still applies. When I lived in the UK I could not help but notice how the people walking around the shopping malls while eating beef burgers etc,

Were usually obese, likewise if you go into a supermarket, here or in a Farang country, just notice what types of food people are putting into their baskets, and then look at the person.

Some posters have mentioned how they think they are to old to do strenuous exercise, <deleted>,

If you have the willpower you can start at any age. Just recently a British Singh announced his intention to resign from running in Marathons at the age of 103. He did not take up this sport until he was about 75 years old.( I was in the same race as him,approx 15yrs ago, and he certainly impressed me, and also inspired me) I just wish people would take responsibilities for their own lifestyle, control the amount you eat, and What you eat and make sure you take some exercise.

[lapd]

I've never understood how many people blame their self induced obesity on thyroid problems etc.

If you look at photo's of those unfortunate people in the concentration camps, or victims of famine in Ethiopia/ Biafra you will not see anybody overweight. The answer to me is quite simple, it's what you eat and in what quantities,coupled with how much exercise you do,decides your weight, admittedly this is easier for some, but the principle still applies. When I lived in the UK I could not help but notice how the people walking around the shopping malls while eating beef burgers etc,

Were usually obese, likewise if you go into a supermarket, here or in a Farang country, just notice what types of food people are putting into their baskets, and then look at the person.

Some posters have mentioned how they think they are to old to do strenuous exercise, <deleted>,

If you have the willpower you can start at any age. Just recently a British Singh announced his intention to resign from running in Marathons at the age of 103. He did not take up this sport until he was about 75 years old.( I was in the same race as him,approx 15yrs ago, and he certainly impressed me, and also inspired me) I just wish people would take responsibilities for their own lifestyle, control the amount you eat, and What you eat and make sure you take some exercise.

Yup they blame metabolism and thyroid or whatever. Even though they eat crap and don't exercise they don't understand why they can't be like those few people who can eat McD every day and be thin as a stick. So it must be their metabolism, yea that's it.

Edited September 11, 2013 by lapd

[bermondburi]

@Phronesis, an offer I'll take you up on at some point.

@snake24, if you have nothing sensible to add, add nothing.

My pm threads are buzzing with members talking privately to me about their issues and experiences, and with excellent advice for me too. That's the strength of Thaivisa at work. Adults discussing issues in a sane and rational manner.

It is a fair point though , if you spent more time out and about and less time in front of a screen it would probably be better for you.

[itchybum]

I've never understood how many people blame their self induced obesity on thyroid problems etc.

If you look at photo's of those unfortunate people in the concentration camps, or victims of famine in Ethiopia/ Biafra you will not see anybody overweight. The answer to me is quite simple, it's what you eat and in what quantities,coupled with how much exercise you do,decides your weight, admittedly this is easier for some, but the principle still applies. When I lived in the UK I could not help but notice how the people walking around the shopping malls while eating beef burgers etc,

Were usually obese, likewise if you go into a supermarket, here or in a Farang country, just notice what types of food people are putting into their baskets, and then look at the person.

Some posters have mentioned how they think they are to old to do strenuous exercise, <deleted>,

If you have the willpower you can start at any age. Just recently a British Singh announced his intention to resign from running in Marathons at the age of 103. He did not take up this sport until he was about 75 years old.( I was in the same race as him,approx 15yrs ago, and he certainly impressed me, and also inspired me) I just wish people would take responsibilities for their own lifestyle, control the amount you eat, and What you eat and make sure you take some exercise.

So you're saying he should go to Germany for awhile ?

We just got our local once a ??? however long it lasts, food order delivered from Bangkok......in it was 6kg lamb chops, 3kg lamb leg, 5kg salmon fillets, 4kg rib eye steak, 2kg cube beef, 4kg beef mince, 4kg chicken breasts, 4kg mussels....should last us a little while.