I Love Donald Trump

[fletchsmile]

From reading the instructions of the form that has to be submitted, you have to have over $10,000 of aggregate assets for reporting on the form. Reading the form, it only says to report the assets. Nothing about paying taxes. I think this is the same as reporting amounts over $10,000 when you leave the US.

I asked a customs agent in Dallas, TX when I was getting ready to leave for Thailand why we had to report the money. Mainly, if you report it and your name somehow comes up in an investigation, they will not pursue you if you reported as per US law. If you don't report it, you might have some problems.

If you made money legally, I think you have nothing to worry about but they are looking for the tax payers who are making money illegally or trying to hide the money offshore to avoid paying taxes.

I may be wrong but a lot of people are getting excited for nothing. I just read the instructions for the form 8957, the summary of FATCA Reporting for U.S. Taxpayers, and TD F 90-22.1 form, Report of Foreign Bank and Financial Accounts where it has most of the information for us as US taxpayers. They can be downloaded from the IRS web page.

I may be wrong but a lot of people are getting excited for nothing.

you are not addressing but missing the actual problem. primarily it's not a matter of U.S. citizens/persons hiding assets or evading taxes but the additional workload and cost on banks as far as reporting each and every transactions as well as the results of these transactions to the IRS. most banks are not willing to comply with that rigmarole and refuse U.S. clients. as simple as that!

At least thats what they were planning on doing until the US started threatening sanctions against those banks which didn't comply.

As mentioned previously, almost all banks would find it very hard to completely do away with the US $ , so they are pretty much forced to comply.

At the moment yes, it's hard to do away with USD, but make no mistake the importance of the USD is declining. In my view this will also contribute to the acceleration of the decline.

The world has woken up to being over reliant on the US and the USD, and many countries don't like what they see - particularly those with a grudge against the US - openly or otherwise. Globally people and companies are seeking (and slowly) finding alternatives.

All rather arrogant really from the US. Imagine another 200 countries all adopted the same approach and tried to make every other country comply with their own home country rules.

Best for everyone it's knocked on the head, and if it takes banks to refuse US citizens so be it - hopefully then some form of sensible government will get voted in to replace the current incumbents.

Fletch

Edited September 17, 2013 by fletchsmile

[55Jay]

Believe it was Standard Chartered, in the Middle East, offered an investment scheme I wanted in on, roughly 2009.

Picked up an advert and application but at the bottom with fine print and other info, "No US Citizens".

However, this was right around the time they were being investigated for subverting US economic sanctions on Iran (and others).

[frankold]

The US ought to be carefull. The middle east has trillions of $ in the USA. It that got pulled out, they would be left bankrupt.

[JSixpack]

As mentioned previously, almost all banks would find it very hard to completely do away with the US $ , so they are pretty much forced to comply.

It's not a matter of doing away with USD.

[frankold]

As mentioned previously, almost all banks would find it very hard to completely do away with the US $ , so they are pretty much forced to comply.

It's not a matter of doing away with USD.

Ok then. 'Do away with the USA'.

[Naam]

As mentioned previously, almost all banks would find it very hard to completely do away with the US $ , so they are pretty much forced to comply.

It's not a matter of doing away with USD.

Ok then. 'Do away with the USA'.

they got nukes!

[55Jay]

As mentioned previously, almost all banks would find it very hard to completely do away with the US $ , so they are pretty much forced to comply.

It's not a matter of doing away with USD.

Ok then. 'Do away with the USA'.

Aw hell, here it goes....

[farang000999]

How will it work with Green Card Holders? Is the USA going to send a list of Thai citizens with Green Cards to every bank in Thailand (the whole world?) and then tell the Banks to report back how much money those people have in their accounts? And what if there are multiple Thai people with the same name? Thai Banks do not have passports of Thais on file, does the US government have the Thai ID cards recorded of all Thai people and they will send those to the Thai Banks?

[Berkshire]

How will it work with Green Card Holders? Is the USA going to send a list of Thai citizens with Green Cards to every bank in Thailand (the whole world?) and then tell the Banks to report back how much money those people have in their accounts? And what if there are multiple Thai people with the same name? Thai Banks do not have passports of Thais on file, does the US government have the Thai ID cards recorded of all Thai people and they will send those to the Thai Banks?

I suspect that the only folks scrutinized will be those opening an account with an American passport (or already opened said account with a US passport). Thais who have Thai IDs would never be considered, even if they have dual citizenship. So that's certainly one option, to obtain Thai citizenship.

[Naam]

How will it work with Green Card Holders? Is the USA going to send a list of Thai citizens with Green Cards to every bank in Thailand (the whole world?) and then tell the Banks to report back how much money those people have in their accounts? And what if there are multiple Thai people with the same name? Thai Banks do not have passports of Thais on file, does the US government have the Thai ID cards recorded of all Thai people and they will send those to the Thai Banks?

none what you mentioned applies except if the green card holders or the U.S. persons who are liable to pay taxes reveal their status voluntarily or by being careless and link their U.S. accounts with accounts abroad.

[frankold]

As mentioned previously, almost all banks would find it very hard to completely do away with the US $ , so they are pretty much forced to comply.

It's not a matter of doing away with USD.

Saying that tho, it would only be a matter of time until the ole U S of A starts huffing and puffing about sanctions on any bank that conducts US $ transactions with non-conformists. They've certainly done that in relation to other matters.

[JSixpack]

How will it work with Green Card Holders? Is the USA going to send a list of Thai citizens with Green Cards to every bank in Thailand (the whole world?) and then tell the Banks to report back how much money those people have in their accounts? And what if there are multiple Thai people with the same name? Thai Banks do not have passports of Thais on file, does the US government have the Thai ID cards recorded of all Thai people and they will send those to the Thai Banks?

none what you mentioned applies except if the green card holders or the U.S. persons who are liable to pay taxes reveal their status voluntarily or by being careless and link their U.S. accounts with accounts abroad.

Nobody here would be so careless, now would they?

[Naam]

How will it work with Green Card Holders? Is the USA going to send a list of Thai citizens with Green Cards to every bank in Thailand (the whole world?) and then tell the Banks to report back how much money those people have in their accounts? And what if there are multiple Thai people with the same name? Thai Banks do not have passports of Thais on file, does the US government have the Thai ID cards recorded of all Thai people and they will send those to the Thai Banks?

none what you mentioned applies except if the green card holders or the U.S. persons who are liable to pay taxes reveal their status voluntarily or by being careless and link their U.S. accounts with accounts abroad.

Nobody here would be so careless, now would they?

suckers who were born some time ago might be careless. those proverbial suckers who were born recently every minute don't have any bank accounts (yet) they can link or disclose.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

AFAIK, I haven't seen or heard a single instance of anyone here having an account in Thailand closed because of this issue, as yet.

Last I heard -- and there are other TV threads on this subject -- the U.S. supposedly was working on reciprocal tax treaties with a number of different countries that would resolve this issue -- if those treaties are successfully negotiated.

From what I've seen, this seems likely to be more of a problem in Europe where some countries and banking systems seem to have bruised egos/hurt feelings over past disputes and some criminal prosecutions with the U.S. over banking secrecy issues... But Thailand and most other countries in Asia don't seem to be going bonkers over it...at least...thus far.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/595748-fatca-follow-up/

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/658042-aseanthailand-fatca-compliance-news-us-expats-be-advised/

This was from a news report earlier this year re Thailand:

Despite the broad impact and cost of the US's new Foreign Account Tax Compliance Act (Fatca), Thailand's financial institutions are preparing to comply, says Twatchai Yongkittikul, secretary-general of the Thai Bankers Association.
The association discussed the issue with the Bank of Thailand and the Revenue Department. Initially, these authorities will report the financial information of American clients to the US Treasury as part of a government agreement, rather than have each institution report separately, he said.

Edited September 20, 2013 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[Pib]

I would think if it was going be a real issue we would have already seen "many" posts of Americans being denied Thai bank accounts just because they were American. When a person opens an account now your nationality is coded on the account...when I opened my latest fixed saving accounts with Bangkok Bank a few weeks ago I'm pretty sure the code they use for U.S. citizen is "Am" for American as I was sneaking a peak at their computer screen as they were opening up the account.

With coding like that the bank could just do a database retrieval that pulls the info for accounts holders with "Am" nationality and then send the data to the Thai govt for consolidation/forwarding to the U.S. Treasury Dept. Right now I think this is nothing more than a tempest in a teapot.

[Lancelot]

What I've been hearing, with A price some banks in Thailand will hide bank accounts that are American.Who is the us government think they are? Thinking they can tell foreign banks what they can and cannot do.

Which bar(s) did you hear that in?

Sent from my GT-I9100 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

I was talking with my good buddy Spike at "Good Every Thing" bar and he told me that drone strikes were in the works for violators of US Banking Laws- or was it The Patriot Act?

Spike is ex CIA, Navy Seal and Delta Force, so it was reliable information

Bummer that I can't have a bank account; however, at least I'm safe from terrorisim.

Yeah, thats the ticket...

[Pib]

Spike told me the same thing at the "Good Ol' Days" bar, but he told me he was ex-NCIS, FBI, and NSA....guess he did a lot of job hopping during his working days. He also told me he is Tom Cruise's stunt double in the Mission Impossible movies.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Lots of members here, now and in the past over periods of years, have had trouble opening new Thai bank accounts. But that has/has had nothing to do with the FATCA issue.

Rather, it has been, and probably will continue to be, an issue of the totally inconsistent and often arbitrary way in which Thai banks and their staff make those decisions, and often pull out the "work permit required" claim even at Thai banks' whose own formal policies say work permits are not a universal, standalone requirement.

That whole mess has been going on for years, and is a totally different issue from the OP examples of foreigners getting their existing bank accounts closed in Europe.

[Nowhereman60]

This would be a great time for Thai banks to start non-interest bearing accounts for Americans. Another way to get a few bucks out of us.

[Pib]

This would be a great time for Thai banks to start non-interest bearing accounts for Americans. Another way to get a few bucks out of us.

Actually, when an account is opened "unless the bank codes you as having a permanent residence in Thailand" a standard savings, current, or fixed account could end up being a non-interest bearing account or earn interest at a lower rate. Seen posts where this has happened to folks who accounts were opened based on a tourist visa or some other short term stay versus having some kind of long term visa/extension. Heck I've even seen a few posts where it happened to folks with retirement visas/extensions until they went back to the bank and asked "Why ain't I getting interest?...I'm suppose to be...I do live in Thailand for all/most of the year...and got the bank to code their account correctly. Like go to this Bangkok Bank interest rates web page and look over in the far right hand column for rates that apply to" non-residents."

[fletchsmile]

I would think if it was going be a real issue we would have already seen "many" posts of Americans being denied Thai bank accounts just because they were American. When a person opens an account now your nationality is coded on the account...when I opened my latest fixed saving accounts with Bangkok Bank a few weeks ago I'm pretty sure the code they use for U.S. citizen is "Am" for American as I was sneaking a peak at their computer screen as they were opening up the account.

With coding like that the bank could just do a database retrieval that pulls the info for accounts holders with "Am" nationality and then send the data to the Thai govt for consolidation/forwarding to the U.S. Treasury Dept. Right now I think this is nothing more than a tempest in a teapot.

AFAIK, I haven't seen or heard a single instance of anyone here having an account in Thailand closed because of this issue, as yet.

Last I heard -- and there are other TV threads on this subject -- the U.S. supposedly was working on reciprocal tax treaties with a number of different countries that would resolve this issue -- if those treaties are successfully negotiated.

From what I've seen, this seems likely to be more of a problem in Europe where some countries and banking systems seem to have bruised egos/hurt feelings over past disputes and some criminal prosecutions with the U.S. over banking secrecy issues... But Thailand and most other countries in Asia don't seem to be going bonkers over it...at least...thus far.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/595748-fatca-follow-up/

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/658042-aseanthailand-fatca-compliance-news-us-expats-be-advised/

This was from a news report earlier this year re Thailand:

Despite the broad impact and cost of the US's new Foreign Account Tax Compliance Act (Fatca), Thailand's financial institutions are preparing to comply, says Twatchai Yongkittikul, secretary-general of the Thai Bankers Association.

The association discussed the issue with the Bank of Thailand and the Revenue Department. Initially, these authorities will report the financial information of American clients to the US Treasury as part of a government agreement, rather than have each institution report separately, he said.

Bank accs seem OK for now.

I was recently asked to close my mutual fund acc which comes with a passbook at one of the banks (and know other people who have had similar) because they thought I was a US citizen. When I explained I wasn't from the US it was OK and I could keep the mutual fund acc.

Cheers

Fletch

[Pib]

Fletch,

What bank was this? BB, K-Bank, SCB, etc. Maybe with mutual funds/stock type accounts the cap gain/dividends/distributions reporting would have been too much of a pain compared to just reporting interested earned on a bank account.

[fletchsmile]

Fletch,

What bank was this? BB, K-Bank, SCB, etc. Maybe with mutual funds/stock type accounts the cap gain/dividends/distributions reporting would have been too much of a pain compared to just reporting interested earned on a bank account.

TMB mutual fund held thru Stan Chart. TMB wrote a letter to all mutual fund customers, as I received for the kids as well. My RM at Stan Chart sorted it out and explained to them I was not a US citizen.

Yes reporting on investments is more work than simple bank accs.

Cheers

Fletch

Edited September 20, 2013 by fletchsmile

[JimGant]

because they thought I was a US citizen. When I explained I wasn't from the US it was OK and I could keep the mutual fund acc.

Aw shucks. When you're dapper, handsome, and have a great smile -- with straight teeth -- it's easy to be confused for an American. Especially if your account contains lots of money.

(Just joking, of course. I know that not all Americans have straight teeth.)

[Fookhaht]

Why are Americans giving up their citizenship?

By Tom GeogheganBBC News, Washington

Continue reading the main story

In today's Magazine

The number of Americans giving up their citizenship has rocketed this year - partly, it's thought, because of a new tax law that has frustrated many ex-pats.

*********************************

Read more here..... http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-24135021

Edited September 27, 2013 by Fookhaht

[regknick]

OK... so here comes the big question from a somewhat seasoned but newbie poster with somewhat straight teeth. ;-)

With all this great information that's actually turning my stomach into knots just thinking about all the violations and embarrassment I feel reading this thread...

Just today, while obtaining the affidavit to get a Thai driver's license I went ahead and asked for an affidavit to open a bank account. I know, I know. I just wanted it covered in case of any bumps in the process.

The question I have is, who and what to open an account with to best satisfy my first retirement visa application?

Thanks in advance for the thoughts and yes, I've read loads of the other threads but I'm interested in hearing from the crew here as it seems to be unpleasantly related. =)