Thailand: Same-sex marriage on the horizon

[webfact]

GAYS' RIGHTS
Same-sex marriage on the horizon
Piyanut Tumnukasetchai
The Nation



BANGKOK: -- The government will soon start making official moves to legalise same-sex marriage in Thailand.

"We will put forward the same-sex civil-union bill in Parliament," Naras Savestanan, director general of the Rights and Liberties Protection Department, announced yesterday with the chair of the House committee on justice and human rights, Viroon Phuensaen, by his side.

Naras said his department and the House committee had decided to put this bill before Parliament with the hope that same-sex partners would be able to enjoy the same rights as heterosexual couples.

"The rights cover tax benefits, pension benefits and more," he said, adding that once this bill takes effect, the civil union of same-sex couples would legally equal the registered marriage of men and women.

Naras called on supporters of the bill to sign a petition for the legalisation of same-sex marriage.

"With these signatures, Parliament will realise that the public is backing this proposed law," he said.

At the same press conference, Naras also announced the plan to push for two other bills. One is related to the Convention against Torture and Other Cruel, Inhuman or Degrading Treatment or Punishment, while the other seeks better protection for contracted farmers.

According to Naras, the first bill will amend the country's criminal law in a manner that prescribes harsher punishment for officials involved in the torture or illegal detention of suspects.

The other bill, Naras said, should benefit more than 150,000 farmers working under contracts.

Naras said many farmers entered into contracts with big firms without knowing or understanding the contracts' unfair conditions.

"For instance, though the contracts sound like farmers are getting paid for raising shrimp, chicken and fish, big firms might postpone buying these animals in the event of disasters. As a result, farmers may not earn anything," he pointed out.

Naras said the proposed bill would call for the provision of standard contracts to ensure that farmers are not put at a disadvantage. "The contracts will also guarantee income for farmers," he added.


-- The Nation 2013-09-19

[Jingthing]

Not marriage. Civil unions. What about immigration laws related to Thais who are married to foreigners? Equal or not?

[isanbirder]

Naras said his department and the House committee had decided to put this bill before Parliament with the hope that same-sex partners would be able to enjoy the same rights as heterosexual couples.

"The rights cover tax benefits, pension benefits and more," he said, adding that once this bill takes effect, the civil union of same-sex couples would legally equal the registered marriage of men and women.

If the civil union gives the same rights, and is legally equal, to marriage, what on earth does it matter what you call it? This is not the US, where the situation is so tangled that it does matter.

Anyway, as I've said before, people are going to call it marriage whatever the legal terminology is.

Mr Naras' statement should be unequivocally welcomed by all LGBTs (though whether we entirely believe it is another matter).

[RickeyParkany]

...so what sex is a ladyman? the GLBT equivalent of a *wild-card*? gotta luv 'em... ;-} rap.

[Card]

Such laws on civil rights would set the standard for the rest of asia - a true leading role for Thailand - one of the few.

[BuriramRes]

Another sad, sad day for common sense.

[Card]

Another sad, sad day for common sense.

U mean a sad, sad day for hate and prejudice?

[Toscano]

It doesn't matter what they call it ; the standard Thai marriage does not have the validity of an Amphur marriage , to which I believe the same sex civil union would equal . With such an abundance of pretty ladyboys in Thailand , it makes more sense to have same sex marriage , than in countries where two butch men are allowed to marry . I do not think I'm mistaken , but I notice a lot of ladyboys seem to be in heterosexual relationship , if lesbian style but equiped to copulate .

[spacebass]

...so what sex is a ladyman? the GLBT equivalent of a *wild-card*? gotta luv 'em... ;-} rap.

Clealy stated on ID card and passport, stupid question.

[Card]

"With such an abundance of pretty ladyboys in Thailand , it makes more sense to have same sex marriage , than in countries where two butch men are allowed to marry "

Why? Is it because you like your boys to be pretty and not butch?

[laurentbkk]

I really dont understand why some talk about ladyboys .... for your information ladyboys are not gay .Also transexual are not gay either. This article is talking about same sex mariage .... but if some sexpats here find pleasure with ladyboys ..then feel free to marry some.

[Card]

I really dont understand why some talk about ladyboys .... for your information ladyboys are not gay .Also transexual are not gay either. This article is talking about same sex mariage .... but if some sexpats here find pleasure with ladyboys ..then feel free to marry some.

I think you might be confusing the lower abdomen philosophers on this forum. Keep it as simple as possible for them. They can only handle 2 dimensions at a time.

Edited September 19, 2013 by Card

[arco27]

why is it that when ever something positive (or negative for that matter) all the bigotted fossils come out of the woodwork and make silly comments. I have been in a relationship with my friend for 37 years, which is much longer then most of our hetrosexual friends, neither of us has ever felt the need to be either labeled male or female or top or bottom, we live a perfectly harmonious happy life, both of us work and contribute equally to our relationship and pay our taxes to the state. The only sour note in our lives are bigotted people making silly and often remarks in front of us like calling me a dirty old farang and my parner a gold digger or saying why I would not get a younger sexier Thai boy because the present one is getting on a bit. My friend is not Thai but Malaysian and we moved to Thailand because in general we are accepted here, not like in most of the other SE Asian countries. We love our chosen home, so if any of you non Thai people have a problem accepting LOVE no matter what form it takes, you better return to where ever you came from or even better to Russia where Putin will adore you, BUT LEAVE US ALONE, we don't either need or want you here. And if one day soon we will be able to have an official civil union marriage, Thailand will proof to the rest of Asia that tolorance and acceptance is the hallmark of a truly modern nation

[Card]

why is it that when ever something positive (or negative for that matter) all the bigotted fossils come out of the woodwork and make silly comments. I have been in a relationship with my friend for 37 years, which is much longer then most of our hetrosexual friends, neither of us has ever felt the need to be either labeled male or female or top or bottom, we live a perfectly harmonious happy life, both of us work and contribute equally to our relationship and pay our taxes to the state. The only sour note in our lives are bigotted people making silly and often remarks in front of us like calling me a dirty old farang and my parner a gold digger or saying why I would not get a younger sexier Thai boy because the present one is getting on a bit. My friend is not Thai but Malaysian and we moved to Thailand because in general we are accepted here, not like in most of the other SE Asian countries. We love our chosen home, so if any of you non Thai people have a problem accepting LOVE no matter what form it takes, you better return to where ever you came from or even better to Russia where Putin will adore you, BUT LEAVE US ALONE, we don't either need or want you here. And if one day soon we will be able to have an official civil union marriage, Thailand will proof to the rest of Asia that tolorance and acceptance is the hallmark of a truly modern nation

Well said.

[Jingthing]

Naras said his department and the House committee had decided to put this bill before Parliament with the hope that same-sex partners would be able to enjoy the same rights as heterosexual couples.

"The rights cover tax benefits, pension benefits and more," he said, adding that once this bill takes effect, the civil union of same-sex couples would legally equal the registered marriage of men and women.

If the civil union gives the same rights, and is legally equal, to marriage, what on earth does it matter what you call it? This is not the US, where the situation is so tangled that it does matter.

Anyway, as I've said before, people are going to call it marriage whatever the legal terminology is.

Mr Naras' statement should be unequivocally welcomed by all LGBTs (though whether we entirely believe it is another matter).

Please don't be so naive.

On immigration matters, the language of the IMMIGRATION laws would need to be CHANGED to include civil unions.

They are not talking about doing that, now are they?

Why try to paint this as something it is not?

As far as the man involved with a Malaysian, if he is not Thai, he will NOT be able to enter a Thai same sex civil union so his particular legal status here will not change.

I am pleased for Thai gay people if this law passes and they have accomplished this FIRST step towards equality of relationships for gay people.

But like in the U.K. and a number of other countries, it will only be a FIRST step and eventually of course Thailand will progress to the more advanced international standard of MARRIAGE equality level.

I think it is still very premature to offers congratulations of the civil union thing here even. It hasn't happened yet. Don't count your chickens and all that.

On civil unions vs. marriage in any country there are two levels of objection.

First level: usually they aren't ACTUALLY 100 percent equal. You can bet the house these Thai civil unions will NOT be 100 percent equal. Again, don't be naive.

Second level: in the rare instances that they are 100 percent equal, there is still the matter of why it is necessary to have to SEPARATE but "equal" instances for the SAME thing.

Before someone says RELIGION, I will respond in advance -- give us a break! If heavily Catholic ARGENTINA home of the Pope can have actual MARRIAGE equality, then certainly Thailand can too.

I certainly understand why the first level (civil unions not ACTUALLY being equal which is where Thailand is heading) is more objectionable than the second level scenario.

Edited September 19, 2013 by Jingthing

[lee b]

Why not, seems to be getting more and more common these days everywhere.

[Jingthing]

Why not, seems to be getting more and more common these days everywhere.

That's one theory why Thailand is going this way, to follow the fashion. Hey, whatever works!

[isanbirder]

As usual, Jingthing, you're twisting what the article says to suit your own prejudices. OK, if that suits you, go ahead.

I was commenting on the article and only on the article. On such a minimal report, we cannot read your interpretations into it.

[jimpthai]

why is it that when ever something positive (or negative for that matter) all the bigotted fossils come out of the woodwork and make silly comments. I have been in a relationship with my friend for 37 years, which is much longer then most of our hetrosexual friends, neither of us has ever felt the need to be either labeled male or female or top or bottom, we live a perfectly harmonious happy life, both of us work and contribute equally to our relationship and pay our taxes to the state. The only sour note in our lives are bigotted people making silly and often remarks in front of us like calling me a dirty old farang and my parner a gold digger or saying why I would not get a younger sexier Thai boy because the present one is getting on a bit. My friend is not Thai but Malaysian and we moved to Thailand because in general we are accepted here, not like in most of the other SE Asian countries. We love our chosen home, so if any of you non Thai people have a problem accepting LOVE no matter what form it takes, you better return to where ever you came from or even better to Russia where Putin will adore you, BUT LEAVE US ALONE, we don't either need or want you here. And if one day soon we will be able to have an official civil union marriage, Thailand will proof to the rest of Asia that tolorance and acceptance is the hallmark of a truly modern nation alt=clap2.gif width=31 height=25> alt=wai2.gif width=20 height=20> alt=wai.gif width=20 height=20> alt=clap2.gif width=31 height=25>

Well said.

Glad you expressed this... saved me the trouble... thanks! I better be ready for the neanderthal farangs I work with to rag on this!

Edited September 19, 2013 by jimpthai

[ToddWeston]

Think local, it's not always about us and will we get a visa - this is tremendous news for Thais wishing to tie he knot - civil union or marriage same same, they get a piece of paper from the Nation saying you've been granted the rights and responsibilities as a couple to forth and be happy, that is truly cause for celebration.

[Jingthing]

As usual, Jingthing, you're twisting what the article says to suit your own prejudices. OK, if that suits you, go ahead.

I was commenting on the article and only on the article. On such a minimal report, we cannot read your interpretations into it.

They are not changing the immigration laws based on this law, IF it passes.

You can take that to the bank.

That is not my prejudices; that is something that is OBVIOUS.

One article doesn't live in a bubble, dude.

I object to trying to twist this article into meaning something it is not.

To take that article literally at face value is massively naive.

Even the headline writer was tripping talking about MARRIAGE, now wasn't he?

I'm into exploring the TRUTH.

Don't get me wrong.

A Thai same sex civil union law which I can assure everyone will NOT be 100 percent equal to Thai marriage will represent a great civil rights victory for Thai gay people.

Some of you will think that's good enough and think there is no need for more.

Whether that really is enough is something for Thai people to decide over time.

I predict that over time it will NOT be good enough. But the x factor of course will be how MUCH time.

Edited September 19, 2013 by Jingthing

[CWMcMurray]

Not marriage. Civil unions. What about immigration laws related to Thais who are married to foreigners? Equal or not?

Would hope it would also extend to immigration, but as the current immigration laws treat spouses of Thai men and Thai women very differently, I wonder how they would arrange it

As currently if having a Thai Husband then no need to show income... But if foreign male you need to show income as it is expected forte foreigner to be able to earn a living if they are married to a Thai women?

So does that mean that the gay Thai man can support his foreign husband?

Or that a foreign female will need to show income if she has a Thai wife ?

Or will it be the other way around?

Would be interesting to see and also opens up the possibility that Thai systems moves to a certain family income requirement rather than trying to dictate outdated gender roles for all relationships to avoid the mess...

Which would be a step forward in many people's opinions

Sent from my iPhone using ThaiVisa app

[Jingthing]

This phase will have no impact on immigration. They would have to change the IMMIGRATION laws specifically and there has been no discussion about that.

Previous reports have mentioned a first phase Thai civil union law will allow a Thai national to enter into a civil union with a a foreigner. That's it.

Cheers.

Edited September 19, 2013 by Jingthing

[jack1964]

So if I marry Thai Bruce, and tell them that I take on the female role in this civil union, will I be able to retire with Bruce, legs up in the air, with all of the rights that females of the species are

entitled to when married to a Thai guy? Well bend me over and call me shiela, cause here I come Bruce....Oh, and I'm bringing my wife as well....

you obviously have no idea what makes a gay couple , still the same stupid idea of one having a female role and the other being the man... grow up man, your homophobia is not really welcome here. And please avoid a statement telling " I was just kidding"

Such a touchy precious lot.....No....I wasn't kidding.....not at all. My inference and satirical approach was aimed fair and square at the inequalities of our visa conditions, where my rights as a male marrying a Thai don't come close to that of a foriegn female marrying a thai male. So where does this then put those entering a civil union, and imagine some of the varied applications and then possible legal implications that may face the government in relation to civil unions and visa applications. The gay movement is very strong, and they have some hard hitters in the legal fraternity that would love to stir the pot and test civil union visa implications

regarding civil unions and partners rights. Get a life and see through the satire. I don't care if your homosexual, heterosexual, or an alien sucking on a grapefruit.

[Jingthing]

This is probably another reason why the immigration law related to the potential Thai civil union law won't change. It currently does reflect a sex based inequality for those who are married and of course civil unions are off the radar. Sounds like a can of worms to touch that now. I don't think they will anytime soon. I do not agree the gay political lobby is "very strong" in Thailand. The opposite is actually the situation.

Edited September 19, 2013 by Jingthing

[CUNJU]

Hurray for whatever positive comes out of this!!!!!!!!

[tigermonkey]

To me, this looks merely like another trail of crumbs from the Thai government/bureaucracy. There is not the slightest indication that this 'change' will be inclusive of any foreigners in Thailand. It is purely egocentric on our part to assume that this is more than a small accommodation to Thai nationals. We will need to wait to see the actual bill, but I would not be surprised if it will do more than allow an Amphur registration of 2 Thai nationals' civil union, along with associated benefits. Any more would require sweeping changes in other areas also.

[Jingthing]

Previous news has been clear that this will include foreigner - Thai unions but that of course doesn't impact on immigration law as these are not MARRIAGES. Anyway, it hasn't passed yet.

[tigermonkey]

Previous news has been clear that this will include foreigner - Thai unions but that of course doesn't impact on immigration law as these are not MARRIAGES. Anyway, it hasn't passed yet.

I wasn't aware of "previous news", but as you say "it hasn't passed yet ". Historically, bureaucratic bill proposals have a poor track record of even making it to the floor of parliament, and the announcement includes an appeal for support, so I return to my statement " a trail of crumbs".

[Jingthing]

Previous news has been clear that this will include foreigner - Thai unions but that of course doesn't impact on immigration law as these are not MARRIAGES. Anyway, it hasn't passed yet.

I wasn't aware of "previous news", but as you say "it hasn't passed yet ". Historically, bureaucratic bill proposals have a poor track record of even making it to the floor of parliament, and the announcement includes an appeal for support, so I return to my statement " a trail of crumbs".

Yes we've been discussing this potential bill for MONTHS now. It is NOT new. Whether it will actually come to a vote, and actually pass, I have no idea.