Global warming? No, actually we're cooling, claim scientists

[FiftyTwo]

Interesting link, 1, 3 & 4 are IMHO counter productive and possibly dangerous.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-24563590

Excess vitamin A can kill you.

[Neurath]

There are so many parallels with the evolution "debate" here, at least for me on a personal level. I mean it is just total, 100% deja vu. I used to argue with people about whether evolution or divine creation took place. Some of the arguments very much lacked sophistication and scientific knowledge. "Evolution is a myth" is an example, yet we could see evolution happening in a lab with some fruit flies. I eventually just stopped arguing, what was the point, I thought. If people are going to make statements equivalent to the "evolution is a myth" proclamation, what is the point of arguing with such nonsense? I, and many others I am sure, have reached that point with this "debate". And, over the years the creationists have gotten a bit more sophisticated with their arguments, which is progress I guess. But I don't hear people debating creation vs evolution like I used to. With greater overall knowledge and understanding, the debate has been settled in our collective conscious in my opinion.

This "debate" here is almost the same exact thing, and I bet it will follow the same pattern. The arguments will kind of taper off in the coming years, the extreme deniers will never stop of course, but the collective conscious will just kind of accept the truth.

1. There is no general trend of global warming

2. There is a general trend of global warming but it is entirely natural, cyclical and not the result of human activity

3. There is a general trend of global warming and it is most certainly (95% certainty) the result of human activity but it's no big deal and we can just adapt to consequences with little to no change in activities.

4. Oups! Sorry about that. My bad. Who would've known?

[EOB1948]

Yes 200 + years of pumping greenhouse gasses into the atmosphere has had no effect whatsoever.

Please continue your selfish, fat-cat-assed agenda of consumerism and obscene profits for oil companies.

I bet every single denier on here drives a SUV and has lots of kids, too. Well your kids are going to see their quality of live erode, their kids might really have it bad. It 's here, it's happening just how fast is the only question

[F430murci]

The real question is why suddenly is this topic allowed suddenly ? If anyone other than an admin had posted it, it would be locked immediately.

It is my understanding the general forum is for topics regarding Thailand and Thailand only

Please follow your own rules.

Move on newbie . . . Oh, and perhaps read title of this forum on way out.

[EOB1948]

^ yep you're right my mistake and corrected.

[MJP]

Yes 200 + years of pumping greenhouse gasses into the atmoshere has had no effect whatsoever.

Please continue your selfish, fat-cat-assed agenda of consumerism. and obscene profits for oil companies

I bet every single denier on here drives a SUV and has lots of kids, too.

I only have the one fan on today and my computer is in 'Green' mode.

My neighbours caught me hugging a tree earlier.

Think I'm on the turn.

I still don't know enough about climate change to comment on it really, even though I'm supposed to be a scientist. But you are right, the world is not efficient and perhaps over populated and this has serious concerns regarding energy security. I think the monetary system relying on the ever increasing growth of consumption simply to sustain the mathematics of debt is at the heart of the problem, rather than being based on sustainability.

Interesting commentary from Sir John Major (former UK Prime Minister back in the early 1990's) yesterday about domestic energy costs in the UK. "This winter, if we have a hard winter, many people will have to choose between staying warm and eating and this is not right", or something like that. For Sir John to comment in public, this a rare moment and thus should be taken seriously, especially as he was publicly supporting the ideals of the leader of the opposing Labour Party.

We are consuming too much, too fast, leaving little for our children. I just pray cold fusion energy is one day a reality.

[FiftyTwo]

We are consuming too much, too fast, leaving little for our children. I just pray cold fusion energy is one day a reality.

Got my electricity bill for this month, 745bht.

Is that too fast for you?

[MJP]

We are consuming too much, too fast, leaving little for our children. I just pray cold fusion energy is one day a reality.

Got my electricity bill for this month, 745bht.

Is that too fast for you?

Spot on old chap!

I try and keep it under a 1000 Baht.

You are not one of the World's great consumers FiftyTwo, actually a chap after my own heart. Why waste it?

[EOB1948]

Yeah, all those years, peer reviews and reams of research, totally proved wrong because you think a graphic looks more like smoke than steam.

Case solved !!

Still gotta wonder if Al Gore (remember the book " In Inconvenient Truth") actually believed that he was doing the world a favor by manipulating data to suit the content of his bullsh*t book, or were there other more sinister factors involved? I've got to believe the latter because he even won some bullsh*t awards (including a Hollywood Oscar, I think).

Anyway, a large portion of the science community was saying that temperature shift cycles are normal and gave credible scientific evidence to show it, but Al Gore was still lauded and his pack of lies promoted. So, this news is not surprising at all.

I just remembered the over-sensationalized footage that is shown where huge walls of ice would shear off glaciers, The creators of such dramatic ads or documentaries trying to sell us the "global Warming" lies would use this footage for its shock value, and it was once again bullsh*t. Think about it -- they're glaciers so they're constantly moving. Of course they're going to reach a more southerly point where the ice melts and softens to the point where naturally it falls off. in the meantime, New ice is forming at the other end, as nature would dictate.

Yes, they are very good at showing emotive images. The one which always makes me smile is the large cooling towers with huge clouds of supposedly smoke billowing out. It's not smoke it's water vapour also known as steam:

Gee. Guess Al was wrong. But he still invented the internet.

One thing most conservatives have in common is having to make thing up to back their argument, this one is getting pretty old, but cannot let it pass

http://www.snopes.com/quotes/internet.asp

The site does not allow cut and paste but essentially Mr. Gore, whilst serving as A US Senator, did introduce legislation in 1988 and 1992 to fund it along .

" ....took the initiative to create... " is the exact quote from the speech that is the source of this misinformation.

I think history will remember the Gentleman from Tennessee one of America's finest public servants. I certainly do and making up lies, and bending quotes really just proves how pathetic the Earth haters are getting in their quest to pollute and commercialize for profit the entire planet.

[FiftyTwo]

I think history will remember the Gentleman from Tennessee one of America's finest public servants. I certainly do and making up lies, and bending quotes really just proves how pathetic the Earth haters are getting in their quest to pollute and commercialize for profit the entire planet.

I'll remember him from the "Mickey Mouse wears an Al Gore watch" joke.

He flies all over the world in a personal jet and drives around in big motorcades telling everyone to use less energy ... that's a joke too, but that joke's on us.

[MJP]

Okay, how many here have bothered watching the Chasing Ice documentary yet?

It really would make a good discussion if both deniers, don'tknower's and MMCC'ers watched it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SHOboZykZdI

[F430murci]

Okay, how many here have bothered watching the Chasing Ice documentary yet?

It really would make a good discussion if both deniers, don'tknower's and MMCC'ers watched it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SHOboZykZdI

I watched it. Well done, great scenery also.

[MJP]

Okay, how many here have bothered watching the Chasing Ice documentary yet?

It really would make a good discussion if both deniers, don'tknower's and MMCC'ers watched it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SHOboZykZdI

I watched it. Well done, great scenery also.

Thank you Murci !!!

[EOB1948]

Really ? Please provide proof of these excessive private jets excursions and "big motorcades. " because I think that's more of the "Invented the internet " type dis- information.

I think history will remember the Gentleman from Tennessee one of America's finest public servants. I certainly do and making up lies, and bending quotes really just proves how pathetic the Earth haters are getting in their quest to pollute and commercialize for profit the entire planet.

I'll remember him from the "Mickey Mouse wears an Al Gore watch" joke.
He flies all over the world in a personal jet and drives around in big motorcades telling everyone to use less energy ... that's a joke too, but that joke's on us.

[EOB1948]

Yeah, you so right and you can drown in fresh water, too !! We better add salt to it it all so we can all float !!

Sorry, but your post points are beyond dismal but do illustrate wonderfully how ignorant most deniers are .

Interesting link, 1, 3 & 4 are IMHO counter productive and possibly dangerous.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-24563590
Excess vitamin A can kill you.

[thaibeachlovers]

Yes 200 + years of pumping greenhouse gasses into the atmosphere has had no effect whatsoever.

Please continue your selfish, fat-cat-assed agenda of consumerism and obscene profits for oil companies.

I bet every single denier on here drives a SUV and has lots of kids, too. Well your kids are going to see their quality of live erode, their kids might really have it bad. It 's here, it's happening just how fast is the only question

That's it in a nutshell ( to use a cliche ).

No matter what the answer might be to man made fossil fuel use causing CO2 rise, an insignificant number of people would actually make the sacrifice necessary to make a difference.

For starters, limit of one child per couple worldwide, no private oil powered vehicles, no fossil fuel used in production of electricity, and shock horror, no more air travel for tourism or conferences on G W.

Personally, I think climate change is real, but I don't believe it can be changed if the only thing the politicians can come up with is taxes, so might as well just enjoy the circus ride till it stops and be happy that I never had children to suffer when it all turns to poo.

BTW it's significant that countries like Germany and Japan are turning to the use of fossil fuel for electricity generation instead of nuclear power, which is the only thing that might make a difference in the short term.

[RickBradford]

Okay, how many here have bothered watching the Chasing Ice documentary yet?

It really would make a good discussion if both deniers, don'tknower's and MMCC'ers watched it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SHOboZykZdI

Not me.

Given your enthusiastic endorsement, I assume the film-makers share your tiresome attitudes about labelling people they disagree with as 'deniers'.

It's a pretty lame insult, as insults go, but I'm not sitting through an hour of it.

I'd rather watch Al Gore's flagship "24 Hours of (Alternative) Reality", which will be broadcast to a breathless world on .... ah, yesterday. Like the rest of the human race, I missed it. Oh, well, today is World Tripe Day, which is an excellent replacement.

To keep the green ink brigade happy, here are two graphs of global temperature estimates. Both are for 51-year periods. One covers the years 1895-1946, and the other covers 1957-2008. Which is which? For an extra helping of pig's trotters on this special culinary day, can you name the creator of this graph? Is he/she a noble environmentalist wedded to the Cause, or a filthy oil-funded denier?

[F430murci]

Okay, how many here have bothered watching the Chasing Ice documentary yet?

It really would make a good discussion if both deniers, don'tknower's and MMCC'ers watched it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SHOboZykZdI

Not me.

Given your enthusiastic endorsement, I assume the film-makers share your tiresome attitudes about labelling people they disagree with as 'deniers'.

It's a pretty lame insult, as insults go, but I'm not sitting through an hour of it.

I'd rather watch Al Gore's flagship "24 Hours of (Alternative) Reality", which will be broadcast to a breathless world on .... ah, yesterday. Like the rest of the human race, I missed it. Oh, well, today is World Tripe Day, which is an excellent replacement.

To keep the green ink brigade happy, here are two graphs of global temperature estimates. Both are for 51-year periods. One covers the years 1895-1946, and the other covers 1957-2008. Which is which? For an extra helping of pig's trotters on this special culinary day, can you name the creator of this graph? Is he/she a noble environmentalist wedded to the Cause, or a filthy oil-funded denier?

Anyone trying to remain objective would watch and consider both sides of the argument in order to have an informed opinion. Your refusal speaks volumes.

[RickBradford]

Actually, what it says is that I prefer not to get my informed opinions from television programs; I prefer reading the scientific papers.

[canuckamuck]

For what it is worth RB, I did watch it, Which was quite a commitment considering my internet speed. So i can give you an overview.

The movie follows a scientist photographer as he goes around the north planting cameras on specific glaciers that are rapidly declining in order to document, through time lapse, what glaciers look like when sped up (several years in a few seconds). This on its own is quite spectacular and a real technological achievement. They captured some stuff on a scale nobody has ever seen before. Particularly a chunk the size of Manhattan breaking off.

Unfortunately the movie is laden with the opinion (presented as fact) that the ice is disappearing solely because of the increase in C02. No other contributing element or contrary opinion is presented, aside from a few sound bites from Fox news and things where people are casting doubt on the theory. Obviously these sound bites are presented as villainous. Kind of like a war movie dropping in clips of Hitler screaming out Nazi stuff.

For the most part it is pretty in places, but predictably manipulative and effectively dishonest.

[wilcopops]

I think the above posts finally show how little some posters understand about the extent and range of effects on gobal warming.

[canuckamuck]

I think the above posts finally show how little some posters understand about the extent and range of effects on gobal warming.

How?

[wilcopops]

I think the above posts finally show how little some posters understand about the extent and range of effects on gobal warming.

How?

QED.

[wilcopops]

Who cares what you think?

I bleive that my posts will at least show I'm capable of thought........can you say the same about yours?

[FiftyTwo]

Who cares what you think?

I bleive that my posts will at least show I'm capable of thought........can you say the same about yours?

You can't argue with a true believer, they have 'faith'.

[Scott]

An inflammatory post has been removed.

[MJP]

Okay, how many here have bothered watching the Chasing Ice documentary yet?

It really would make a good discussion if both deniers, don'tknower's and MMCC'ers watched it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SHOboZykZdI

Not me.

Given your enthusiastic endorsement, I assume the film-makers share your tiresome attitudes about labelling people they disagree with as 'deniers'.

It's a pretty lame insult, as insults go, but I'm not sitting through an hour of it.

I'd rather watch Al Gore's flagship "24 Hours of (Alternative) Reality", which will be broadcast to a breathless world on .... ah, yesterday. Like the rest of the human race, I missed it. Oh, well, today is World Tripe Day, which is an excellent replacement.

To keep the green ink brigade happy, here are two graphs of global temperature estimates. Both are for 51-year periods. One covers the years 1895-1946, and the other covers 1957-2008. Which is which? For an extra helping of pig's trotters on this special culinary day, can you name the creator of this graph? Is he/she a noble environmentalist wedded to the Cause, or a filthy oil-funded denier?

I'm a don'tknower. I guess the term 'denier' has subconsciously entered the lexicon. I just posted that video because I thought it might be of interest. I still think it's worth you watching it and then making comment.

Stop taking offence where there's none to be taken.

[MJP]

For what it is worth RB, I did watch it, Which was quite a commitment considering my internet speed. So i can give you an overview.

The movie follows a scientist photographer as he goes around the north planting cameras on specific glaciers that are rapidly declining in order to document, through time lapse, what glaciers look like when sped up (several years in a few seconds). This on its own is quite spectacular and a real technological achievement. They captured some stuff on a scale nobody has ever seen before. Particularly a chunk the size of Manhattan breaking off.

Unfortunately the movie is laden with the opinion (presented as fact) that the ice is disappearing solely because of the increase in C02. No other contributing element or contrary opinion is presented, aside from a few sound bites from Fox news and things where people are casting doubt on the theory. Obviously these sound bites are presented as villainous. Kind of like a war movie dropping in clips of Hitler screaming out Nazi stuff.

For the most part it is pretty in places, but predictably manipulative and effectively dishonest.

I hold a similar view to this. Not enough was apportioned to the reduced albedo effects caused by the cryoconite. I think that's a major factor.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cryoconite

Also, the speed of sudden changes in climate, such as mini ice ages that happened pre-industrial revolution lead one to suspect that 'apocal geologic change' as Balog calls it is possible within our lifetimes as naturally occurring events.

I'm still a Don'tknower. I'm not a researcher in this field and take anything anyone, especially Al Gore says, with a pinch of salt.

[boomerangutang]

Okay, how many here have bothered watching the Chasing Ice documentary yet?

It really would make a good discussion if both deniers, don'tknower's and MMCC'ers watched it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SHOboZykZdI

Not me.

Given your enthusiastic endorsement, I assume the film-makers share your tiresome attitudes about labelling people they disagree with as 'deniers'.

It's a pretty lame insult, as insults go, but I'm not sitting through an hour of it.

I'd rather watch Al Gore's flagship "24 Hours of (Alternative) Reality", which will be broadcast to a breathless world on .... ah, yesterday. Like the rest of the human race, I missed it. Oh, well, today is World Tripe Day, which is an excellent replacement.

To keep the green ink brigade happy, here are two graphs of global temperature estimates. Both are for 51-year periods. One covers the years 1895-1946, and the other covers 1957-2008. Which is which? For an extra helping of pig's trotters on this special culinary day, can you name the creator of this graph? Is he/she a noble environmentalist wedded to the Cause, or a filthy oil-funded denier?

The two graphs above mean nothing. There are no numbers on either axis. Squiggles on graph paper, nothing more.

[RickBradford]

The two graphs above mean nothing. There are no numbers on either axis. Squiggles on graph paper, nothing more.

Sorry for the lack of detail.

The y-axis represents temperature, both graphs to the same scale. Higher temperatures are at the top.

From the fact that both records are stated to be 51 years long, it might be possible for you to infer something about the x-axis in both graphs.

The idea is not so much to compare absolute temperatures, as we are coming out of a mini ice age, but to discern the signature of the alleged man-made warming (1957-2008) compared with the principally natural warming (1895-1946) from the temperature profiles.