Foreign Name Brands That Have Exploited Thais

[jdinasia]

geeze ... guess I am going out to dinner tonight .... maybe on top of some nice hotel on Sathorn .... I'll probably spend more than greenwanderer's monthly budget (not food budget --- total budget) During that time I'll ponder why this diatribe about soccer was not on the sports section

[Sir Burr]

BTW you say that FiFa is "eurocentric", I don't see many African, Asian or even European teams in the US "World" Series of Baseball, does that make MLB xenophobic?

The World Series in baseball was named after a newspaper.

[Diablo Bob]

I must be a stupid American.

For the life of me, I am still trying to figure out where exploitation even enters into most of the selections in the "Poll".

I admire the EPL players and teams, from what I know about Soccer (Football) and seen, they seem to be preety da_n good. I can't quite grasp the exploitation angle though.........

Greeny, in making these games available to the local population to view, where is the exploitation? Who is getting taken advantage of?

Methinks you have dug your grave a little to deep! You have shoveled to much S__t in this topic. Give it a rest, re-read YOUR opening coments and explain how we got from there to here!

Just my opinion though......

[greenwanderer108]

Greenwonderer,

You threw your teddy out of the pram on the thread Monthly Expenditures of Expats, because one member had the sheer effrontery to spend 20,000 Bt on food per month. You just couldn't get your head around the meaning of the word "choice". You weren't supported by a single other poster.

Now you are doing it again here with the same result and for the same reason.Either you are just an argumentative git, or, you are truly out of your depth on this forum (nevermind football).

Mr. Burr, if you actually looked at the poll results, you would see that 10 other members have voted that the EPL is a foreign brand that Thais would be better off without. Does it hurt you that much that are many others in the world who couldn't give at rat's arse for English football?

Would you please keep your senile off-topic comments to yourself. That includes past threads that have no relevance to this one. Perhaps it is you who have yet to understand the meaning of 'choice'. I suggest you take up some reading in Monopoly Economics and Sociology, watch some television, read the newspapers, then you come back and tell me about 'choice' and 'equal opportunities'

Name of this thread "Foreign Name Brands That Have Exploited Thais"

Mr. greenwanderer108 you seem to be confusing the EPL (English Premier League) with the England national team. EPL consists of Man Utd, Liverpool, Chelsea et al. They recruit players from all over the world (even a couple of Thais at Everton). The England national team, who as you say won the FiFa world cup in 1966, are a team of players who are 'English" (Yes I know about Owen Hargreaves). How can any of this be "exploiting Thais"?

BTW you say that FiFa is "eurocentric", I don't see many African, Asian or even European teams in the US "World" Series of Baseball, does that make MLB xenophobic?

you're right, EPL and English national team are different just as NBA is different from the US Dream team...even though all of English national team members either play or did play in EPL (before they went after bigger $$ contracts elsewhere)...likewise for NBA and dreamteam .

FIFA is eurocentric- Europe favoring. All one needs to do is count how many seats European teams have and compare that to other continents seats. I don't know why you would bring up MLB as there is no relevance to this topic...you don't see many kids in Thailand sporting Dodgers and Blue Jays jerseys...maybe Yankees caps, but that has nothing to do with baseball as far as they know/care.

I must be a stupid American.

For the life of me, I am still trying to figure out where exploitation even enters into most of the selections in the "Poll".

I admire the EPL players and teams, from what I know about Soccer (Football) and seen, they seem to be preety da_n good. I can't quite grasp the exploitation angle though.........

Greeny, in making these games available to the local population to view, where is the exploitation? Who is getting taken advantage of?

Methinks you have dug your grave a little to deep! You have shoveled to much S__t in this topic. Give it a rest, re-read YOUR opening coments and explain how we got from there to here!

Just my opinion though......

If you can't see where exploitation comes into the picture with most of the selections, than I assume you must have some bizarre personal definition of 'exploitation' in which case, I'm not sure what to tell you.

These threads become redundant every time the old and scared senile members start jumping on band wagons to shut down the young guy who won't give in to their beurcrapacy 'diggin <deleted>' 'diggin holes' 'losing a battle' bla bla bla bla

...Please let me ask you all again to stick to the facts and subject topic... Need thaivisa open a 'How to Forum' forum? If you don't understand something in someone else's post, use specific references and questions...no lame blank comments like ' You make no sense, I don't understand' 'you are a spuffer buffer!' without any follow through, specific reference, or elaboration.

If we can just practice some basic communication skills, this could be a fun thread !

Edited April 25, 2006 by greenwanderer108

[jdinasia]

hmmm ... after a great dinner .. some bottles of wine ... I see all is the same

[greenwanderer108]

... I can't quite grasp the exploitation angle though.........

Greeny, in making these games available to the local population to view, where is the exploitation? Who is getting taken advantage of?

The Thai youth and future potential athletes here are who are beeing taken advantage of. If it were only as simple as 'making games available to watch' unfortunately in multi billion dollar businesses / markets like the EPL, marketing procedures are a little more complex than simply buying broadcasting time.

They (Thai youth) grow up coerced to think that EPL is where it's at and all that matters in football when they should be taking more pride and interest in their own leagues/teams. But as long as people will make a huge profit selling posters, jerseys, and other parafanalia to promote the EPL, the exploitation will continue, and domestic organization/promotion will not develop/evolve .

I hate to repost myself, but my point is clear as crystal in this post...

My vote went to EPL because I think the 'branding' itself (that others have stated clearly is mostly initiated by Thais themselves for fincancial purposes) takes away from national team spirit and sports character. Take any group of 20 teenagers from around Thailand and ask them to name 5 players of the Thai national team. Will atleast half of them be able to do it?? I doubt it. Then, ask those same kids to name 10 players from the English national team...Chances are they will not only be able to name 10 players from the English squad, but also tell you their EPL teams.

And how does this affect the big picture? Ultimately, it's one of the driving factors why the Thai national team hasn't had a shot at even participating in a world cup (please correct me if I'm mistaken)

Name one world cup participant or any international level tournament participant for that matter that didn't have wide media and/or government support and investment. Far and Few my friends...

ALL THEIR ATTENTION, CAPITAL, AND EFFORTS ARE FOCUSED ON THE EPL among other foreign organizations/branding

And to say that their is no capital base to seriously invest in the sports clubs/teams at a national level is just silly. i.e. boxing for starters... It's simply a case that Thai marketers have a much easier time capitalizing off of poster boy faces like David Bekham than they would for Somchai, Somsak, or whoever...yes I am ashamed to say that I don't actually no any names of any of the Thai footballers...

For those of you who can't see the exploitation that I refer to, think about it just a little harder. This isn't a matter of choice...It's about subtle coersion...Think about your own situations growing up in your home countries. Who was your football hero?(or basketball, rugby, tennis, or whatever)Was that person a citizen of your home country? Did your home country team play in the world cup then?

[wolf5370]

Seriously Greeny.

I'd look in Thailand's own backyard before heading overseas.

Go on then Samran, lets have a poll on these too.

On the foreign imports, then how about Chilli, Rice, Beer, Whisky, Night Clubs, Bars, Hotels, English Language news. Many things imported has made Thailand better (for me at least). Thailand has always imported and assimilated foreign 'stuff' in to their food and culture. It was on the trade route with India and China and a center for western imperial powers to trade too for centuaries. It all evolves. Having said that: I just hate seeing Pizza Huts (though I do love the Quails Eggs in the salad bar ), McDonald's, KFC, Burger King etc - just depresses me. I don't know why, I suppose its a bit like Dorian Gray looking at that portrait and seeing reality (wow that's deep for this time of night )

[Jai Yen Yen]

BTW you say that FiFa is "eurocentric", I don't see many African, Asian or even European teams in the US "World" Series of Baseball, does that make MLB xenophobic?

The World Series in baseball was named after a newspaper.

Dam.n, I thought I'd learnt something new Sir Burr! But according to http://roadsidephotos.sabr.org/baseball/name.htm , that stuff about the newspaper is a myth! I was hoping you were right, though...

Origin of the Name "World Series"

One baseball myth that just won't die is that the "World Series" was named for the New York World newspaper, which supposedly sponsored the earliest contests. It didn't, and it wasn't.

In fact, the postseason series between the AL and NL champs was originally known as the "Championship of the World" or "World's Championship Series." That was shortened through usage to "World's Series" and finally to "World Series."

And there's more...

http://www.rose-hulman.edu/~rickert/BB/wsname.html

A brief history of the name of the World Series

From TBIII: The 1884 Series was touted as "for the championship of the United States," but the influential weekly Sporting Life established precedent for future Series hype by naming victorious Providence "Champions of the World."

From the 1887 Spalding's Official Baseball Guide: In 1886 a series of games "for the world's championship" were arranged...

From the 1888 Spalding's Official Baseball Guide: Up to 1884 this question of what is now justly termed the "world's championship" in baseball remained an unsettled one;... In 1887 the world's championship series had become an established supplementary series of contests,...

From the 1887 Reach Guide: "Under the heading `THE GREAT WORLD'S SERIES' After the two championship seasons had closed..[st.Louis and Chicago]... agreed to play... to decide the "championship of the world," as it was termed.

The 1903 souvenir card referred to the World's Championship Games ....etc, etc, etc. (Where's my Yul Brynner smiley? )

Edited April 25, 2006 by Jai Yen Yen

[kayo]

I voted American KFC etc.....

Buit only cos I couldn´t vote for all at the same time.

[cobra]

Come on now, you've heard of trickle down economics, forget about the root cause of commercial exploitation, any business is good business, the trickled on, excuse me, trickle down model works,

[greenwanderer108]

No it wouldn't. That's not the point I was making.

They come in at 108 in the world rankings mate. Sorry. That means shitty to me.

Yes, by falling back on such a ratings list for your logic, you've opened yourself up for an attack that I can't pass up

This list based soley on points has Chec Republic listed as number 2, Netherlands as 3, and USA as number four!!

So using your list as a means to assess how good a team is, we can say that USA (#4)is better than England (#10) which I won't argue and say

Chec(#2), Egypt(#18), and Cameroon (#15) are all better than Germany (#19)

Nigeria (#12) is better than Italy (#14)...but wait Nigeria nor Cameroon made the cut for Germany but Angola (#58) and Togo (#59) did...

As I said, the FIFA system on a whole is biased and flawed and can not objectively compare all world teams on the same tier. IMO, every continent should either be allowed same amount of spots, or be allowed the amount of spots proportianate to its population....not by the size of its football clubs' bank account...but that's business and capitalism for you.

How else can you explain 14 / 32 world cup spots being from Europe ???

Edited April 26, 2006 by greenwanderer108

[Doza]

ZZzzzzzz - you got me Wanderer. You're right. And a very astute judge of football. Thailand ARE a very good team who can compete on the world stage. You're a genuis. It would be better to have them in the WC than a team far better than them from Europe. Good idea. Fans would love it. Very equal.

not by the size of its football clubs' bank account

IT's by their talent you imbecile, not their bank account. Not much point having equal places for Asia and Europe when half of the best teams in the world come from Europe and almost none from Asia. Good one Einstein.

How else can you explain 14 / 32 spots being from Europe ???

Because that's where the majority of good teams come from *yawn*.

But I did not expect you to understand this because not only is it fairly simpe logic which eludes you continuously, its about football which you don't seem to know much about. So goodness knows why you are flogging a dead horse...but we have come to expect desperate attempts to forge ahead with points of little standing on this forum dominated by your personal insecurity. But good luck to you mate, stick to your [empty] guns.

[StateSix]

Niall Quinn recently played a game (or rather 70 minutes of a game) for BEC Tero Sasana in the Thailand Premier League. BEC Tero have made a deal with Arsenal and hope to have more former Arsenal stars playing games for them. This will help raise the profile of the Thailand Premier League, BEC Tero and Thai football in general.

An article from The Nation (http://www.nationmultimedia.com/2006/03/04/sport/sport_20001975.php) states that as part of this tie up "BEC-Tero Entertainment will launch a new sports reality show "The Arsenal Dream" to select 32 youth players to train with Arsenal in London for a month." This is an example of an EPL team putting something back into Thai football. Obvioulsy they want to market the Arsenal brand to sell merchandise. but Thai football will also benefit.

Chang now sponsor Everton, obviously mainly in an effort to try to sell their brand in the UK, but part of the deal was that young Thai players get to be part of the Everton youth squad. This experience should help them become better players and maybe give them the opportunity to play in the EPL. When the national team have training sessions and games they can pass on their experiences and skills to their teammates and help try to improve the Thai national team.

Thailand is not traditionally a footballing nation, in the same way as European nations are. This is starting to change and young people are starting to get interested in football and see opportunities where they can be successful and earn money in it. This has come about because of EPL marketing and showing live football here. BTW German football is also shown here too.

The profile of the sport has to be raised before money is thrown at the grass roots level. This was why money was spent on bringing foreign teams over, such as Everton, Manchester City and Bolton for the pre season tournament (The Thai U-23 team beat Everton on penalties, and lost 1-0 to Bolton in the final). In the future the Thai leagues should become more popular here, but they will never be as popular as the EPL, because, arguably, the best players, and teams, in the world play there.

[greenwanderer108]

ZZzzzzzz - you got me Wanderer. You're right. And a very astute judge of football. Thailand ARE a very good team who can compete on the world stage. You're a genuis. It would be better to have them in the WC than a team far better than them from Europe. Good idea. Fans would love it. Very equal.

not by the size of its football clubs' bank account

IT's by their talent you imbecile, not their bank account. Not much point having equal places for Asia and Europe when half of the best teams in the world come from Europe and almost none from Asia. Good one Einstein.

How else can you explain 14 / 32 spots being from Europe ???

Because that's where the majority of good teams come from *yawn*.

But I did not expect you to understand this because not only is it fairly simpe logic which eludes you continuously, its about football which you don't seem to know much about. So goodness knows why you are flogging a dead horse...but we have come to expect desperate attempts to forge ahead with points of little standing on this forum dominated by your personal insecurity. But good luck to you mate, stick to your [empty] guns.

once again, Doza you make radical posts with absolutely no facts or legit stats to back you up. Even in the 17 world cups that have always favored Europe with a biased 40-70 percent participant makeup, do you not find it peculiar that only four European teams have won a grand total of 8 cups! That's less than half of them all considering they (Europe) have a biased start/ better percentage (i.e. more teams) from the start!

And your comments about all or half the best players coming from Europe and not from Asia are simply silly. All they say is that you yourself are from Europe and you subjectively think Eurocentric. I guess, the Koreans in 2002 must have paid off all the good talent in Italy and Spain as to advance to the Semi/Quarter finals right???

Sounds like you are losing this battle if you can call it that and so you resort to personal attacks because you can't hang with a real debate as you've been outgunned by one young man...must hurt I know...don't feel too bad, I make a living arguing points backed with facts

[slackula]

From Merriam-Webster online www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary

Main Entry: 2 ex·ploit

Pronunciation: ik-'sploit, 'ek-"

Function: transitive verb

1 : to make productive use of : UTILIZE <exploiting your talents> <exploit your opponent's weakness>

2 : to make use of meanly or unjustly for one's own advantage <exploiting migrant farm workers>

- ex·ploit·able /-'sploi-t&-b&l/ adjective

- ex·ploit·er noun

Therefore:

Nike+Using kids in sweat-shops to make shoes = exploitation

EPL+effective marketing+giving pleasure to soccer fans worldwide <>=exploitation

Next!

[greenwanderer108]

From Merriam-Webster online www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary

Main Entry: 2 ex·ploit

Pronunciation: ik-'sploit, 'ek-"

Function: transitive verb

1 : to make productive use of : UTILIZE <exploiting your talents> <exploit your opponent's weakness>

2 : to make use of meanly or unjustly for one's own advantage <exploiting migrant farm workers>

- ex·ploit·able /-'sploi-t&-b&l/ adjective

- ex·ploit·er noun

Therefore:

Nike+Using kids in sweat-shops to make shoes = exploitation

EPL+effective marketing+giving pleasure to soccer fans worldwide <>=exploitation

Next!

Refresh my memory....what does <>= symbolize??

Are you trying to say those employed with/for EPL do not 'make productive use of' or 'utilize' (the Thai market) or 'make use of meanly or unjustly for their own advantage' ???

Edited April 26, 2006 by greenwanderer108

[Sir Burr]

I make a living arguing points backed with facts

Can't be very good at it, see your remarks from another thread:-

"In all the dozens of various income threads in Thaivisa over the months, there always seems to be two particular groups that surface...

1) Those making under 40,000/ month, able to get by, may/may not be content with lifestyle

and

2) Those making anywhere from 50-250,000 baht/month, despite being part of a financial elite of SE Asia, tend to claim that they are just getting by (i.e. could be making xxx amount back home, etc.)

I, myself am in the lower section of group one"

[Doza]

And your comments about all or half the best players coming from Europe

Reading 101 - you need it.

I make a living arguing points backed with facts

All they say is that you yourself are from Europe and you subjectively think Eurocentric

You must be poor.

[PREM-R]

ZZzzzzzz - you got me Wanderer. You're right. And a very astute judge of football. Thailand ARE a very good team who can compete on the world stage. You're a genuis. It would be better to have them in the WC than a team far better than them from Europe. Good idea. Fans would love it. Very equal.

not by the size of its football clubs' bank account

IT's by their talent you imbecile, not their bank account. Not much point having equal places for Asia and Europe when half of the best teams in the world come from Europe and almost none from Asia. Good one Einstein.

How else can you explain 14 / 32 spots being from Europe ???

Because that's where the majority of good teams come from *yawn*.

But I did not expect you to understand this because not only is it fairly simpe logic which eludes you continuously, its about football which you don't seem to know much about. So goodness knows why you are flogging a dead horse...but we have come to expect desperate attempts to forge ahead with points of little standing on this forum dominated by your personal insecurity. But good luck to you mate, stick to your [empty] guns.

once again, Doza you make radical posts with absolutely no facts or legit stats to back you up. Even in the 17 world cups that have always favored Europe with a biased 40-70 percent participant makeup, do you not find it peculiar that only four European teams have won a grand total of 8 cups! That's less than half of them all considering they (Europe) have a biased start/ better percentage (i.e. more teams) from the start!

And your comments about all or half the best players coming from Europe and not from Asia are simply silly. All they say is that you yourself are from Europe and you subjectively think Eurocentric. I guess, the Koreans in 2002 must have paid off all the good talent in Italy and Spain as to advance to the Semi/Quarter finals right???

Sounds like you are losing this battle if you can call it that and so you resort to personal attacks because you can't hang with a real debate as you've been outgunned by one young man...must hurt I know...don't feel too bad, I make a living arguing points backed with facts

Hey Steve, are you trying to keep this thread going so you can get to 500 posts and unlock "Bedlam"?

[greenwanderer108]

Hey Steve, are you trying to keep this thread going so you can get to 500 posts and unlock "Bedlam"?

didn't cross my mind...what happens when you unlock Bedlam???

Actually, I'm trying to keep a good topic going so that users other than the senile band wagon can contribute something interesting...

As far as the polls options, here's how I see it :

EPL is branding to the extent that the market has little competitive selection/choice of teams/players to cheer. Thais have established team spirit for the various EPL teams / parafanelia at the stake of interest and support for their own teams/players...

Corporate American branding such as Mac, KFC, etc. certainly has more disadvantages than advantages on the society...however, young Thais aren't coerced to liking Macdonalds and KFC at the stake of their own food...in fact you'll find most Thais would still prefer Somtum and Lop over any hamburger and french fries on most occasions...

European beer wasn't the fairest option though some unfavorable exploitation on the subject is apparent. Some Thais are loyal only to Heineken as a status symbol or what have you...perhaps a direct result of the brilliant advertising campaigns via billboards, movie trailers, and movies themselves... Not much to add on this option

Video Games is an obvious one...all over, but one can easily argue as many advantages and benefits as the disadvantages, etc.. For some, video games have inspired Thai software designers, engineers, animators, etc... however, it is a good point that some poster made about all the school students spending their hours in game cafes where they could be productive doing something more active...

Pop culture branding is also quite apparent in modern Thai society as we have seen, however the range is quite diverse... K-pop back to J-rock, MTV, Hollywood, and even Australian and European stars have made their impression here...However, the reason why I wouldn't vote this option is because in the end...it is still the local pop culture that presides/sustains higher than the international hype...

Most young Thais have Thai stars, idols, and role models bottom line. A good example of how Thai fans compare to other neighboring Asian fans is looking at each MTV Asia awards...Most every year, in Thailand, the Thais are loyal to and vote for famous Thai singers as their favourable artist (i.e. Tata Young, Bird, etc.) where as Singapore, Malaysia, Hong Kong, etc. will usually have a western singer...This is something Thais can be proud of if you ask me.

Other options other posters mentioned were relating to cars...One poster said the status symbol of brands like Mercedez and BMW...I don't want to say to much on this except that I hope one days Thais will be able to sport their own goods and be proud of it...

Then some driver was talking about cars in general charging that Thais can't drive...so only certain TV members should be allowed to drive...well, if I had it my way, I'd say no one should be allowed to drive anywhere...make the infrastructure revolve around transit, boat, walking, and cycling, and the world would be a much better place...

Any other brand(s)(ing) not yet mentioned?

[greenwanderer108]

Just to get the record strait about Thailand being good enough for the world stage or not...

Following is how Thailand has faired decently on the international level over the past 9 years with games agains EPL in bold (I didn't include less impressive wins i.e. against cambodia, myanmar, etc.) and other obvious losses (i.e. China DPR, Brazil, Germany, etc.)

09-Feb-97 28th King’s Cup 1997 Thailand VS Japan 1:1 (0:0)

11-Feb-97 28th King’s Cup 1997 Thailand VS Sweden 0:0

13-Feb-97 28th King’s Cup 1997 Thailand VS Romania 1:0

15-Mar-97 Friendly Match Thailand VS Japan 3:1 (1:1)

27-May-97 . Thailand VS Chelsea FC. 0:1

25-February-99 30th King Cup 1999 Thailand VS Hungary 3:3 (2:1)

27-February-99 30th King Cup 1999 Thailand VS Hungary 3:1 (0:1)

25-Jan-98 29th King’s Cup 1998 Thailand VS Egypt 1:1

27-Jan-98 29th King’s Cup 1998 Thailand VS Denmark 1:0

15-August-98 Warm up (ASIAN GAMES) Thailand VS Uzbekistan 4:1

21-November-98 Warm up (ASIAN GAMES) Thailand VS Turkmenistan 3:3

27-November-98 Warm up (ASIAN GAMES) Thailand VS Nepal 2:0

2-December-98 13th Asian Games Thailand VS Hongkong 5:0

4-December-98 13th Asian Games Thailand VS Oman 2:0

8-December-98 13th Asian Games Thailand VS Uzbekistan 1:1

10-December-98 13th Asian Games Thailand VS Lebanon 1:0

12-December-98 13th Asian Games Thailand VS Qatar 1:2

14-December-98 13th Asian Games Thailand VS Korea Rep. 2:1

23-February-99 30th King Cup 1999 Thailand VS Dpr. Korea 2:2 (2:0)

25-February-99 30th King Cup 1999 Thailand VS Hungary 3:3 (2:1)

27-February-99 30th King Cup 1999 Thailand VS Hungary 3:1 (0:1)

22-May-99 SUPER Match 1999 Thailand VS Arsenal FC. 4:3 (2:1)

16-Jun-99 4 nations tournament Thailand VS NewZealand 6:5 (2:2) plk: 4:3

21-July-99 Friendly Match Thailand VS Nott County FC. 4:1 I think their EPL

25-Feb-00 31st King's Cup 2000 Thailand VS Estonia 2:1

27-Feb-00 31st King's Cup 2000 (FINAL) Thailand VS Finland 5:1

27-Mar-00 Asian Cup 2000 Qualified (KL) Chinese Taipei VS Thailand 0:2

29-Mar-00 Asian Cup 2000 Qualified (KL) Malaysia VS Thailand 3:2

04-Apr-00 Asian Cup 2000 Qualified (BKK) Thailand VS Dpr. Korea 5:3

06-Apr-00 Asian Cup 2000 Qualified (BKK) Thailand VS Chinese Taipei 1:0

08-Apr-00 Asian Cup 2000 Qualified (BKK) Thailand VS Malaysia 3:2

03-Feb-01 Friendly Match Thailand VS FC. Aarau (Swiss.) 2:1

01-May-01 WARM UP ENGLAND TOUR Liverpool VS Thailand 1:2

03-May-01 WARM UP ENGLAND TOUR Middlesbrough VS Thailand 1:1

05-May-01 WARM UP ENGLAND TOUR Huddersfield VS Thailand 3:1

19-July-01 COKE SUPER CUP 2001 Thailand VS Liverpool 1:3

29-July-01 SIEMENS GSM INVITATION 2001 Thailand VS Manchester United 1:2

24-Jul-03 GSM ADVANCE NOKIA EXCLUSIVE MATCH Thailand VS Liverpool FC. 1:3

10-Aug-03 THAILAND VS REAL MADIRD Thailand VS Real Madrid FC. 1:2

13-Oct-04 FIFA WORLD CUP 2006 ASIAN QUALIFYING Thailand VS UAE. 3:0

17-Nov-04 FIFA WORLD CUP 2006 ASIAN QUALIFYING Thailand VS Yemen :

05-Jul-04 Friendly Match Thailand VS Bahrain 0:2

08-Jul-04 Friendly Match Thailand VS Jordan 0:0

10-Jul-04 Friendly Match Thailand VS Trinidad and Tobacco 3:2

10-Jul-04 Friendly Match Thailand VS Newcastle United FC. 1:1 PLK: 4:2

For EPL teams being so good and Thailand being so shitty, the stats don't exactly tell such an extreme story. If I added correctly Thailand has scored 16 against EPL teams while the EPL squads have scored 19 against Thailand Can't make much solid conclusions from those scores

And to further the argument that Thailand is worthy of world competition, here is a list of countries which Thailand has scored more points against (i.e. better winning streak) from 1956 - 2004

Bangledesh

Brunei

Cambodia

Chinese Taipei

Colombia

Egypt (4 games, 2 draws, 2 points each)

Estonia

Finland

Hong Kong

Hungary

India

Indonesia

Kasakhstan

Kenya

Kyrgstan

Laos

Lebonon

Macau

Maldef

Myanmar

Nepal

Oman

Pakistan

Phillipenes

Poland

Seria

Singapore

Sri Lanka

Timor Leste

Trinidad and Tabacco

Uzbekistan

Yemen

Mostly Asian teams yes...but need I point out the 4 European teams, a handful of African, American, and Mideastern teams as well...

How many of the teams on the list have had a shot at a world cup? Most likely the Non-Asian (i.e. Poland, Hungary, Colombia, Finland, Egypt) teams, of which Thailand has proved themselves better in matches and points against one another...So one can only conclude that the reason why Thailand hasn't had a chance at a world cup team even though lesser teams have is because the system is biased, unfair, and non-representative of world talent!!

...not because Europe has better talent or whatever bizarre unbacked argument that some members have posted

So if you got a response, talk with stats and facts...not your arse!

Edited April 26, 2006 by greenwanderer108

[StateSix]

The majority of the games that you list below were friendly/exhibition matches IN Thailand, either at the end of the season or the beginning. The teams that they played were using these games as a warm up for the new season, or had played a solid 9 months of highly competitive games in their respective leagues. They would not be playing at the same level as they would if they were playing a league match for example, especially after having travelled halfway around the world to play in conditions that they are not used to and have not had time to adjust to. Equally, the Thailand players would be fired up playing against EPL players, and would be giving their all. After all, a good performance against one of these teams could lead to an offer of a trial, and potentially a lucrative contract.

I am not for one minute suggesting Thailand are a bad team as such, I am just pointing out that black and white statistics do not tell the whole story. It would be interesting to see how well they would fair playing in Europe in real, competitive matches week in, week out. I saw the game the u-23 team played against Everton last year and I thought they played excellent. However Everton did look rusty, and struggled a little in the heat.

Thailand did have a shot at being in World Cup 2006, but unfortunately failed to qualify through the preliminary stages. They came third in their qualifying group, behind North Korea and the United Arab Emirates, winning 2 (against UAE, 3-0 and Yemen, 3-0), drawing 1 (1-1 against Yemen, at home), and losing 3 ( 4-1, home and away against North Korea, and 1-0 against UAE away). I have no doubt that they will improve as the infrastructure, and training and coaching at a grass roots level improves, and we could well see a Thai team in the World Cup Finals in 2010/2014. Big improvements are needed though for them to seriously compete at this high level.

Just to clarify, Notts County are not an EPL team, and never have. In 1999, they were in Division 2 (2 leagues below the EPL).

[Doza]

Thailand did have a shot at being in World Cup 2006, but unfortunately failed to qualify through the preliminary stages. They came third in their qualifying group, behind North Korea and the United Arab Emirates, winning 2 (against UAE, 3-0 and Yemen, 3-0), drawing 1 (1-1 against Yemen, at home), and losing 3 ( 4-1, home and away against North Korea, and 1-0 against UAE away).

Yeah, Thailand are real shit hot.

...not because Europe has better talent or whatever bizarre unbacked argument that some members have posted

Ha ha...you're right Greenie, Asia has better talent than Europe - what was I thinking all this time???

So if you got a response, talk with stats

Like you did? Read StateSix's response bozo. (you wouldn't need to if you had a clue, but you're American, so you're excused - but one wonders why you persist???)

[Diablo Bob]

Woa, Doza

"but you're American, so you're excused"

I am an American, and on your side in this debate!

Greeny is from Colorado and is probably a tree hugger......

I am from Nevada, where we still shoot people for trespassing!

[siam-i-am]

Forgive the broadness of the choices...

Everyone is branded all over the world, yes that is the obvious...however, this forum is Thailand-Thai related, so let us focus on Thais in Thailand.

We see them branded/influenced on many foreign things, as the poll has suggested...Surely, there are pluses and minuses that can be argued for/against. I would like to see the general stance of Thaivisa members on such a subject.

Call me a troll or patriotic yank or whatever, but my vote goes to English premiere football. Here is my reasoning. Sports is good for spirit, but in my oppinion the EP has exploited Thai sports to the extent that they have no home spirit for their own teams/clubs on the international level.

When the Thai national team has an international game in most instances, the attendence is usually, as I've seen, less than 30-40 percent...and these are home games...but as soon as Liverpool or Man U, etc. tours to Thailand, the stadium is sold out of Thai fans.

This would not likely be the case in Japan, USA, Korea, Turkey, or even Iran for that matter...

If all the Thai-side promoters spent all their capital and energy promoting the Thai national team in training, media, popularity, etc. instead of sponsoring EP teams and players, the Thai national team might actually have a hope in making it to a world cup...Heck if Angola and Ivory coast can go, why can't the Thais? I think it's all about team spirit, which Thais seem to lack outside of English Premiere football...

So, that's just one argument for why I voted English premiere as branding Thais could do without...Any legit arguments for the other choices or against my own, please bring it on...

And let's try to keep to the topic at hand...I know it's hard thing to do on this forum, but just try...

What would not happen in USA and Japan? Man U tour both US and Japan filling stadiums the people go because like the Thais they can appreciate the best the sport has to offer right now its the English premier league. Thai footbal has improved 100% over the last five years because of this import you want banned This topic should get a RED card.

[Cpt_M0ney_Sh0t]

It never ceases to amaze me how forums like this just seem to draw out the worst eruo trash haters immagineable. It's like they jump at any opportunity to bash The States. Not every body ofcourse just the dregs.

Anyway, I chose other... reason being,

1) Soccer is a excellent sport, promoted heavliy it keeps lil kids running around kicking a ball with their friends and staying healthy, it's a team sport and promotes competition (a good thing)

2) American fast food: Get over it, if it wasn't tasty it would not be loved and consumed the world over as a multi Billion $$$ industry. Try saying that for Englands #1 fast food, fish and chips....or is it chicken curry?

3) Beer: Beer dude, you gotta be kidding right? Beer?....next..

4) Video Games: These MMORPGs (Massivly Multiplayer Online Role Playing Games) Are AWSOME nurtures of a child's creativity and immagination. It's like Virtual Dungeons & Dragons. Now while obviously not as personal as D&D it still has the strong fantasy base that builds ones obscure knowledge and they are engineered to promote Team Play (Teamwork is a MUCH needed skill in the workforce that is not easily trained)

5) Hip Hop : Once again Get over it; Rap music has gotten love from all over the world. Nothing but love, I rember when I was just a kid in 3rd grade carring my big ol' 2 tape deck holding Boom Box on my shouldure so proud of my new Run DMC tape I played it till it poped! Now pepole all around the world love rap and have addapted it to their own culture. They Rap in their own languaes, immitate our style, and try to match our flow. Thai's, Russians, Jappanese, Arabs, French, Africans, Indians, even Chineese Rap in their own lanague! It gets love because it's good and pepole the world over can relate to it. Don't get your panties in a bunch if you can't....mabey rock & roll will make a come back....

Now for the real deamon. The real villians to your average Thai.

1) Nivea : Whitening This, and Lightening that, Bleaching this..... &lt;deleted&gt;?!? This chemical pusher uses twisted media to promote the natural chocolaty color of most Thais as being Ugly and disgusting "Ewww dark skin!, don't be ugly rub this skin bleach in your face every day and be white and pretty" I mean you can't even go into a 7-11 without finding these bleach chemicals... it's like black neighboorhoods in the 40's when you had to be light skinned to be accepted or to get a job and everyone wanted to be fairer. But then we got over it and began to love ourselves for who we are and found beauty in our natural complections (No MJ dosn't count ) The Thais should do the same though it's hard when these drug pushers won't let them turn on the TV or look at a bill board without feeling somehow ugly for being chocolate.....When was the last time you saw a chocolate Thai girl that thought she was cute?

I would have gone on more and spell checked but I gotta leave the office now, so forgive my sad sad grammerical errors and such.

[Fast Eddie]

Korea DPR 11

UAE 10

Thailand 7

Yemen 5

This is the reason Thailand are not in the World Cup. Because they are a relatively poor team that struggle in competitive matches against other minnows. They have had their chance to qualify and they were shown to be not good enough. The notion that they are being denied there chance because of some imaginary European bias is absolutely laughable. Greenwanderer questions England's credentials to play in the World Cup, yet the reality is that they have won a qualifying group filled with teams who would wipe the floor with the Thai's.

If the asian representatives make an impact in this years World Cup, then the question will be raised of maybe allowing them another place. At the moment the standard of football in Asia is poor in comparison to Europe, and with the exception of the last World Cup, Asian teams have made very little impact whatsoever when placed on the world stage. Without significant local investment this will continue to be the case, and it is no coincidence that the Japanese (who have made a serious commitment to developing the footballing infrastructure in their country) have made significant progress to the extent that they can expect to be regular qualifiers for the competition for years to come.

Thai football is not being hindered by the EPL, if anything the EPL is promoting enthusiasm for the game. Who cares where the kids footballing idols come from, as long as it encourages them to go out and play the game. If Thailand want to develop to a stage where they can begin to dream of qualifying for a competition like the World Cup, then there needs to be a significant investment at a local level in terms of playing resources and coaching, allied to the formation of a proffesional league. Is that viable in Thailand? Is there really sufficient interest in the game to fund such a project? At this moment in time the answer is probably no.

Edited April 27, 2006 by Fast Eddie

[greenwanderer108]

Now for the real deamon. The real villians to your average Thai.

1) Nivea : Whitening This, and Lightening that, Bleaching this..... &lt;deleted&gt;?!? This chemical pusher uses twisted media to promote the natural chocolaty color of most Thais as being Ugly and disgusting "Ewww dark skin!, don't be ugly rub this skin bleach in your face every day and be white and pretty" I mean you can't even go into a 7-11 without finding these bleach chemicals... it's like black neighboorhoods in the 40's when you had to be light skinned to be accepted or to get a job and everyone wanted to be fairer. But then we got over it and began to love ourselves for who we are and found beauty in our natural complections (No MJ dosn't count ) The Thais should do the same though it's hard when these drug pushers won't let them turn on the TV or look at a bill board without feeling somehow ugly for being chocolate.....When was the last time you saw a chocolate Thai girl that thought she was cute?

I would have gone on more and spell checked but I gotta leave the office now, so forgive my sad sad grammerical errors and such.

Thanks for bringing back some reasoned logic and validity to this thread! You are so right and can't believe I didn't think of this initially. I must add to this topic by pointing out the reverse effect back in the states...

how dark skin has become a desired beauty trate in many aspects of American society---how being too white all of a sudden became ugly.. i.e. tanning lotions, salons, etc.. while not to the same degree as whitening creams in Thailand, still apparent.

Personally, I wouldn't prefer pale white or midnight black...somewhere in between is desirable

[greenwanderer108]

@Fast Eddy and all the rest of you Europeans who think that Europe is everything

As I said before, if the tables were turned and Europe as a whole was granted four spots instead of 14, how many of your European countries would you call shit because they couldn't make the cut? Lets just imagine for one second that the French founders of FIFA lived in colonial Vietnam, despised their European roots, and used their profits from Rubber plantations to promote their love of football/soccer in Asia.

Had this been the situation, Southeast Asia alone would get 4 spots in the world cup. But, before we get to carried away in this fantasy, back to reality. FIFA was born in Europe, oranized by Europeans, and has always favored Eurpean countries via sponsorship, support, and promotion. Bottom line.

HAs nothing to do with all the talent and excitement being in Europe. Has everything to do with money, thus organization being in Europe. We all saw what happened when FIFA decided to widen its horizons bringing more money and organization to the Americas...Bam, came Uruguay, Brazil, Argentina, US, Mexico, Chille, etc. etc. etc.

The Americas proved they had/have more talent than Europeans on a whole ...whether Olympic titles or FIFA titles even though tournaments such as the World Cup still favored European teams.

Africa is similar to Asia with limited opportunities/spots, etc. , (We can see how top 20 teams like Nigeria and Cameroon won't compete in the World Cup) however, Africa obviously having been more colonized and closer to Europe, has had a bigger head start in organization and funding... Asians have just as much athletic talent and potential talent if not more than Europe...Like I said, it's all about organization and funding which Asians don't add up to in comparison to Europe...

There is no bilogogical or objective foundation to claim Europe breeds better Athletes than Asia!!

In fact, we can even see the opposite depending how you look at it. Take a look at other sport/competitions which isn't Eurocentered. Just look at a fair world athletic tournament--- olympics.. In Athens, let us compare the top nine (lucky Asian number) countries by medals

3. China (63)

6. Japan (37)

9. S. Korea (30)

Asians in top 9 medal total = 130

5. Germany(48)

7. France (33)

8. Italy (32)

Europeans in top 9 medal total = 113

(1. USA 2. Russia 4. Australia)

----------------------------------------------------

So anyhow, my point isn't to say that Asians are better than Europeans as athletes or whatever, it is possible to manipulate statistics to prove any point. I am just calling out those who actually believe that Europe's (semi) success in football IS based solely on talent, athletic superioty, biological dominance, etc.BECAUSE IT IS NOT!!! Just as Thailand's (Asia in general) lack of the same prestige/success in the world football stage has nothing to do with athletic/biological inferiority ! You are ignorant to believe so! You obviously don't understand concepts such as monopoly and social stratification (or even realize what FIFA is and where/how it started), suggesting you are blind to the fact of where you came from and the true reasons why Europe rose and fell in its day.

Welcome to the global world...Yes it hurts, to realize the world doesn't revolve around Europe just as it might be a shock to you that it was Asians who invented guns and explored the Americas long before any Europeans.

If Americans like myself can accept the fact that the world isn't about the superbowl and budweiser, than their is no reason why you can't accept that it's not about EPL and heineken!

So anyway, back to the topic, I will accept/agree that football and athletics in general can only be good/better for a society. Heck, I'm not even against the promotion of sports---soccer, basketball, tennis, takraw, boxing for Thais and Thailand.

And so, it is absolutely a good thing that Thailand has a ministry of sports and required Pyshical Education in school. And the forming and playing of local teams/leagues is absolutely wonderful!

So what is it that I'm preaching against? Ah, that's right branding by the EPL. I hate to break reality for alll you Englishman and other supporters of EPL as benefit for Thai society. The people who are actually behind promoting EPL in Asia DO NOT HAVE Thailand's physical / sports / athletic well being in mind. As I've stated before, this is about business and money. As long as Thais are loyal fans to EPL Football Clubs, they will never have the desire/initiative to form/organize their ownl legit clubs to be loyal too!

Let me give you an example of a foreign country that truly has promoted sports/physical fitness/friendship/athletics in Thailand. Japan and baseball. They not only have invested and built several (multi million dollar) stadiums in Thailand with their own funds donated...but promote/support/fund both adult and youth leagues within Thailand (non-Japanese and Japanese and mixed)

For all the money EPL is making off the Thai market, how many stadiums, teams, leagues, and athletic activities has the EPL initiated in Thailand / for the Thai people??? In fact, what you see is the opposite? You see major Thai companies (i.e. Chang) sponsoring EPL players/teams:blink:

Like I said, EPL and all its branding activities IS NOT about sports or football promotion....just about money money money!

[ProfessorFart]

Isn't Russia in Europe?

You better go back to Geography class GreenWanderer!

Edited April 28, 2006 by ProfessorFart