It doesn't get "better" for the gay AND fat?

[anon8]

It's funny to me, funny sad not funny ha ha how so many gay people are so blind to being bigoted against fat people when people who have experienced irrational bigotry themselves should bloody well know better.

So true. Remember 08 elections? In California there was huge black turnout, and thanks to that we lost Prop 8 vote. We rallied around their guy, and prolly hoped they support us, black folk know all about being discriminated against, so you'd think they would be kind to us. You'd think black folk would also fight for our rights, since we have always fought for theirs, but it doesn't work like that. People love to discriminate, we love to put others down.

As a group we are mean, superficial and judgmental. Gay culture has always been very youth oriented, and physical appearance is given huge importance, much more so than straight culture. If you are gay and fat, for many other gay people you don't exist, that's how dumb we are. I often read how straight culture sees us as stylish and smart, I think they are very wrong about that. As a group we are terrible people. When it comes to giving importance to superficial stuff, we are champions.

You should laugh out loud if some random queen doesn't approve what you look like.

[Fookhaht]

In general, I find most of the younger openly-gay people with whom I come in contact, more hyper-critical of the outer characteristics of others, than the general population.

Obviously not a scientific study, just my own observation of the dozens of gay university students I meet or observe in a month's time.

Perhaps it stems from growing up in societies where they are so often on the receiving end of criticism and discrimination? Simply imitating the behavior and critical attitudes with which they have been surrounded?

I don't know, but just throw it out as a hypothesis.

Sent from my tin can via string.

[Jingthing]

More about blatant prejudice against fat people (based on moral failings), from gay and otherwise (yes we've seen examples of this on this thread) and linking somewhat to the prejudice against gays thing:

Now, despite Gross’s argument, prejudice against fat people continues to be one of the deepest and most widely shared prejudices that the public holds. Research has shown, for example, that even the parents of overweight children discriminate against them. In addition, the overweight suffer drops in self-esteem when prejudice is directed towards them, suggesting that overweight people themselves believe that somehow they are to blame for their condition (Crocker et al., 1993).

At the root of these attitudes is a suspicion of flawed character-- namely, one is fat because one lacks self-regulation. In more biblical terms, one isguilty of gluttony and/or sloth.

http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/are-we-born-racist/201207/prejudice-against-fat-people

[nicolas18]

Some of the people who posted in this thread should really be ashamed of themselves.

Who are you to know what goes on inside a person's mind that forces him/her to ruin his/her life by overeating? Fat people do not overeat simply because they like food a bit too much.

Do you think that alcoholics drink alcohol every day simply because they like the taste of beer? Or that compulsive gamblers spend their entire savings in one night just because they happen to like the atmosphere of that particular casino?

And if you do get offended by the sight of fat people, as one particularly compassionate poster said, you should seriously take a long, hard look at yourself in the mirror before you get "offended" by the sight of someone who happens to be different from you.

This thread just reminded me why, as a gay man, I have always preferred the company of straight people to having gay friends.

[LeCharivari]

Some of the people who posted in this thread should really be ashamed of themselves.

Who are you to know what goes on inside a person's mind that forces him/her to ruin his/her life by overeating? Fat people do not overeat simply because they like food a bit too much.

Do you think that alcoholics drink alcohol every day simply because they like the taste of beer? Or that compulsive gamblers spend their entire savings in one night just because they happen to like the atmosphere of that particular casino?

And if you do get offended by the sight of fat people, as one particularly compassionate poster said, you should seriously take a long, hard look at yourself in the mirror before you get "offended" by the sight of someone who happens to be different from you.

This thread just reminded me why, as a gay man, I have always preferred the company of straight people to having gay friends.

"And if you do get offended by the sight of fat people, as one particularly compassionate poster said, you should seriously take a long, hard look at yourself in the mirror before you get "offended" by the sight of someone who happens to be different from you."

I've just re-read this thread (less posts by the OP, who from quoted posts would seem to be the last to post what you said) and I can't find anyone saying that they "get offended by the sight of fat people", as you claim. Being "offended by the sight of fat people" is a far cry from not finding them sexually attractive.

If someone wants to "ruin his/her life by overeating", or "drink alcohol every day", or "spend their entire savings in one night" that's their CHOICE and their RIGHT - I have NO problem with any of that as long as it doesn't affect me. What I have a problem with is their expecting me to make allowances for them because they are fat, drunk or broke - especially if they expect extra allowances to be made by me or anyone else who is gay just because of a common sexual preference.

[Jingthing]

The snarky insinuations against fat gay people continue (whatever fat means). Special treatment? Is that a joke? That's the attack line homophobes use against gay people in general. Don't you see it people? Prejudice is prejudice.

Again, where did anyone get the totally daft idea that gay fat people expect everyone to find them attractive? That is absurd and actually rather phobic. This is a problem that isn't a problem, any non-fat person complaining about that is simply TRIPPING. Are you afraid a fat gay person might touch you or give you cooties or something? I can calm your fears folks from basic common sense, that gay fat people well understand the pool of persons who will find them sexually attractive is much less than a fit cute twink. DUH! Dudes, gay fat people might be fat but that doesn't mean they are STUPID. Again, common sense folks. Consider using it. If you are OLDER but not fat, do you seriously think you have the same pool of people who will be hot for you as fit cute twinks? Of course you know that. Why do you think gay fat people don't have the basic common sense about such things that you do?

Asking to be treating inclusively with dignity and respect within the "gay community" is not the same thing as irrationally demanding attraction where there is no attraction.

Also way off the mark here is the offensive assumption that the gay fat issue is all about sexual attraction. You do realize, gay people, we are about MUCH MORE than only sex acts and attraction, yes?

[LeCharivari]

This has become like hate speech central against fat people. Whatever your definition of fat is, which could be 5 pounds over some abstract concept of ideal weight from some insurance chart that doesn't account for the vast individual differences between people, or even more harsh measures (refer to the concept of GAY FAT), or moderately overweight -- not fit or hot but not to the point of health risk, or into obesity, or the small percentage of unfortunate people who are super obese. Such a wide range, pun intended!

Also, not sure where people got the idea that fat gay people expect everyone to want to sleep with them! Duh. It's moqre about not being insulted all the time.

I heartily recommend two BBC t.v. series. Getting educated might help some people temper their prejudice (especially about the assumptions about the degree of CHOICE expressed here) and yes the tone of some of the "opinions" here does approach real bigotry.

The Men Who Made Us Fat

and

The Men Who Made Us Thin

I think you can probably stream on youtube, etc.

It's funny to me, funny sad not funny ha ha how so many gay people are so blind to being bigoted against fat people when people who have experienced irrational bigotry themselves should bloody well know better.

No I am not suggesting the state of being fat and the state of being gay are exactly the same any more than sexual orientation is the same as ethnicity or race, but really, bigotry is bigotry.

Let's be very clear I referred to OBESE people. Fat people (sorry I can't do pounds) are 4 to 10 kilos over their supposed weight, obesity is plus 25 kilos.

I have said before I have great sympathy and I believe there are underlining factors which may contribute to this epidemic - food chain, genetically modified food, et al. it's been well covered on other threads.

I have a professional opinion and a personal opinion - like others I do believe it's within their power to modify and live a healthy life (personal opinion) can i help and encourage people so I don't have to continually modify their meds and worry about all the onset disease(s) that will follow yes (professional) I've counselled thousands of patients who want a quick fix - it's a journey and no one has the answer, but as a first step it's really up to the individual.

It's the ones who make NO effort that I'm offended by.

I'm not bigoted and take offence to that - judgemental sure I don't like tatts, people who dye their hair or wear coloured contact lenses - it's my opinion. Would I sleep with a fat or obese person - no I'm married. If my hubby gained 50 kilos you bet I would more to cuddle but we'd be out walking 10 kms the next day because I want him alive as long as possible.

The only "bigotry" I can see here is on the part of anyone who expects to get special consideration just because "we" (as in "we gays") have something in common - that really is bigotry.

Should I feel particular sympathy for an axe-murderer or child-abuser just because we are both gay? Not in my view. Extreme examples, of course, but I don't see why my being gay should make me any more sympathetic to an alcoholic, compulsive gambler, compulsive shoplifter, oniomaniac, etc, whether they are gay or straight, so I don't see why someone who is overweight should be treated any differently.

[Jingthing]

Axe murderers?

Wow.

I am speechless now.

[nicolas18]

I've just re-read this thread (less posts by the OP, who from quoted posts would seem to be the last to post what you said) and I can't find anyone saying that they "get offended by the sight of fat people", as you claim. Being "offended by the sight of fat people" is a far cry from not finding them sexually attractive.

From ToddWeston:

I don't think is unfair to judge the vast majority of people who are obese, it's in our nature to judge and I don't feel guilty when I pass judgement on someone sitting at Swensons who I would consider obese.

It's the ones who make NO effort that I'm offended by.

[anon8]

The only "bigotry" I can see here is on the part of anyone who expects to get special consideration just because "we" (as in "we gays") have something in common - that really is bigotry.

Should I feel particular sympathy for an axe-murderer or child-abuser just because we are both gay? Not in my view. Extreme examples, of course, but I don't see why my being gay should make me any more sympathetic to an alcoholic, compulsive gambler, compulsive shoplifter, oniomaniac, etc, whether they are gay or straight, so I don't see why someone who is overweight should be treated any differently.

Who's asking for special consideration? Just treat everybody with respect, incl over weight people.

You really are making a mistake comparing people with weight issues with alcoholics, compulsive gamblers, compulsive shoplifters. Weight gain could be a health issue, you must know that. This is so basic. Don't know that? And if it isn't health issue, you shouldn't respect a person no less.

[anon8]

The only "bigotry" I can see here is on the part of anyone who expects to get special consideration just because "we" (as in "we gays") have something in common - that really is bigotry.

Should I feel particular sympathy for an axe-murderer or child-abuser just because we are both gay? Not in my view.

There is (or at least should be) a special bond we have.

We should be more considerate to each other, cos we know how difficult it is for many to be gay, and if some of us have extra difficulties such as weight or other issues, we should not make them feel even less included.

For example, when Snowden stuff was revealed by G. Greenwald, I was really proud that he is gay, maybe it shouldn't make a difference, but to me it did.

But instead of being nicer our brothers, in this thread at least, you can't even show basic respect. That is sad.

[Scott]

Snowden is gay?

If so, then his being in Russia is a double punishment.

[Jingthing]

Snowden is gay?

If so, then his being in Russia is a double punishment.

I think he meant Bradley Chelsea Manning ...

[orchis]

he meant Greenwald, the journalist at The Guardian.

[Jingthing]

he meant Greenwald, the journalist at The Guardian.

Aha.

[Jingthing]

Did someone mention bears?

[ToddWeston]

Phil-Wheelerx633.jpg

Did someone mention bears?

Terry-Wongx633.jpg

To be honest I didn't know the term until this thread or I forgot - I'm still confused with potato and rice queen ...... labels labels labels oh sigh, and yes those bears are cute - I think of Winnie the Pooh not fatties.

[LeCharivari]

The only "bigotry" I can see here is on the part of anyone who expects to get special consideration just because "we" (as in "we gays") have something in common - that really is bigotry.

Should I feel particular sympathy for an axe-murderer or child-abuser just because we are both gay? Not in my view.

There is (or at least should be) a special bond we have.

We should be more considerate to each other, cos we know how difficult it is for many to be gay, and if some of us have extra difficulties such as weight or other issues, we should not make them feel even less included.

For example, when Snowden stuff was revealed by G. Greenwald, I was really proud that he is gay, maybe it shouldn't make a difference, but to me it did.

But instead of being nicer our brothers, in this thread at least, you can't even show basic respect. That is sad.

So all red heads should be friends and dwarfs have an obligation to befriend other dwarfs because of a bond ? I should automatically cheer when a gay reporter reports.

I'm kind to those I like but I'm not unkind to those I don't like, it's not bigotry or racism it's my choice. Don't worry I'm far less judgemental towards obese people than I am towards people who spit or wear crocs - gay or straight.

Not all, have had a struggle, some of us are married and quite happy in life.

"There is (or at least should be) a special bond we have." (valgehiir)

That argument has been used throughout history to justify bigotry, racism, jingoism, cronyism and discrimination, to demand that we support those who are "like us" over those who are not, regardless of whether they deserve it or not, from the "old boy network" to turning a blind eye to or passively supporting terrorism.

Respect, in my view, is earnt by someone's actions not by their religion or education and least of all by an accident of birth such as gender, race, ethnicity or sexual preference.

I am "nicer" to and "include" those who I know and respect regardless of their background or physical attributes, although it is only natural that most tend to have at least something in common with me - under NO circumstances do I base who I have any "special bond" with on their genetics.

Neither, I should add, do I EXclude anyone just because they are fat - unless they happen to be fat WHINGERS who blame all their problems on their obesity ("everyone hates me because I'm fat .... no-one wants sex with me because I'm fat .... slow down, I can't keep up because I'm fat, etc", to repeat myself) just like WHINGERS with any similar mantra: everyone hates me because I'm fat / gay / Jewish / black / Muslim / Asian / short / thin / wear glasses / a geek / etc ad infinitum.

[Jingthing]

In much of the world gay people are an oppressed group and ALWAYS a minority group except in a few ghettos, so in that sense I as a member of this minority group feel a solidarity with gay people GLOBALLY. If gay people aren't going to be on our side advocating for our own group, how can we expect support from anyone else? That doesn't mean I automatically like or love all specific gay individuals just because they are gay. In fact, I actually dislike many specific gay people very, very much. Supporting gay civil rights doesn't mean opposing OTHER groups rights, in my view, gay people being an oppressed minority group would be wise to support dignity and civil rights for ALL. I think that includes FAT people too, gay and otherwise.

I have made it clear here that I don't consider the state of being fat (a huge range in what the means of course) and being gay are not the same thing, but there ARE some areas of similarity.

Today it occurred to me that for many gay people SHAME is part of their life experience especially when coming out, that is of course less so with moderns characters like LOHANTHONY, but it is still very real for gay people all over the world today. SHAME is also part of the psychological experience for many or most fat people.

[LeCharivari]

I've just re-read this thread (less posts by the OP, who from quoted posts would seem to be the last to post what you said) and I can't find anyone saying that they "get offended by the sight of fat people", as you claim. Being "offended by the sight of fat people" is a far cry from not finding them sexually attractive.

From ToddWeston:

I don't think is unfair to judge the vast majority of people who are obese, it's in our nature to judge and I don't feel guilty when I pass judgement on someone sitting at Swensons who I would consider obese.

It's the ones who make NO effort that I'm offended by.

That would explain my confusion - I was looking for someone who was "offended by the sight of fat people" without qualification, rather than someone who merely "passed judgement" on someone who is "obese" wedged into a corner sofa at Swensens troughing his personal Earthquake for 8.

In case there is any confusion over my support, or otherwise, for those who are discriminated against because of the way they are born or for any other reason I should say that I am strongly against unjustified discrimination of any type, whether it is because of how someone is born (their sexual preference, gender, nationality or ethnicity, etc), their beliefs (religion, conscientious objection, etc), or any physical or mental handicap (MS, Down's, CP, etc). There is simply NO excuse for discrimination in any of these cases and legislation and education should ensure that all these people are fully integrated into society at all levels and in every possible way - and that includes making extra allowances for some where necessary so that they can travel and live on an equal footing with everyone else.

What I do NOT support is that "everybody" deserves to be treated with respect - there have to be limits. Should I "respect" Ed Gein, on whom the Texas Chain Saw Massacre was based? ... Pol Pot? ... Aum Shinrikyo? ... Jim Jones and the People's Temple? I don't think so, and I really don't care if someone who gets into my compartment on the train with a gory chain saw is fat, gay, or both.

So just as being a drug addict or an alcoholic may be a "disease" so may being obese - the AMA classified it as one in June this year, giving fatties (at least in the US) the genuine excuse to say "its not my fault ... xxx made me do it ..." and an excuse to take even less personal responsibility for their obesity and its affect on others. I really don't care if someone wants to get drunk, high or fat as long as they don't affect me or anyone else, but the problem is that they DO both as groups and as individuals. In many countries between 50 and 90% of crimes are drug related; up to a third of all those killed on the roads are killed by drunk drivers - are fatties any less culpable just because there are more of them?

Eating while driving accounts for 80% of all accidents in the US as fatties reach for that treble whopper with extra cheese or their deep fried cro-nut (the latest doughnut-croissant combo), and its a similar story in the UK where snackers' reactions were slower than drunks' - and that's without them struggling to turn the wheel that's firmly jammed against their paunch.

Obesity costs Americans overall (fat, thin, gay and straight) more in healthcare costs than smoking (although the Affordable Care Act - aka ObamaCare - addresses that as it allows employers to charge fat employees 30 to 50% more if they don't lose weight!), accounting for over 20% of healthcare costs, and in the UK treating obesity costs more than treating the effects of smoking and alcoholism combined. Why should I pay more taxes when, as Lord McColl of Dulwich, former professor and director of surgery at Guy’s Hospital, said: “The obesity epidemic is the worst epidemic to afflict this country for 90 years. ...It’s killing millions, costing billions and the cure is free - simply eat and drink fewer calories.” ? They need extra wide beds, extra wide MRI scanners and extra staff - why should everyone else pay because they have had too many midnight snacks and can't keep off the ice creams?

IF obesity is a disease like alcoholism and drug addiction as some insist it is then why shouldn't it be treated in the same way? If you are locked up or made to take treatment for being drunk or stoned in public, or when driving, why not for being fat? What's the big difference if they're "the same"?

IF obesity is not a disease but a choice (my view, in 99%+ of cases, which is why I don't think the above applies and fatties shouldn't be treated in the same way as alcoholics or drug addicts, however equally anti-social they may be) then those who are obese need to take responsibility for their choice. They need to treat the cause of their problem (depression, lack of self-esteem, gluttony, sloth, etc) and to stop feeding the symptom. They need to pay their way and to pay the costs that everyone else is shouldering for them, whether it is higher taxes or higher air fares. They need to realise the harm they are doing to everyone else as well as themselves. They need to stop snacking and do something about it themselves instead of expecting everyone else to do it for them. Most of all, gay or straight, they need to STOP WHINGEING.

http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/eating-driving-80-car-accidents-study-shows-article-1.427796

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/motoring/9197930/Eating-while-driving-more-dangerous-than-using-phone.html

http://www.forbes.com/sites/rickungar/2012/04/30/obesity-now-costs-americans-more-in-healthcare-costs-than-smoking/

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/journalists/laura-donnelly/10174593/Obesity-bankrupting-the-NHS-warns-peer.html

[ToddWeston]

Obesity was "labelled" a disease for commerical gain and research/grant funds, it's a personal behaviour IMO just as smoking is not a disease.

Edit: Obesity on medical grounds fall into a totally different category as noted.

[Jingthing]

Obesity was "labelled" a disease for commerical gain and research/grant funds, it's a personal behaviour IMO just as smoking is not a disease.

Edit: Obesity on medical grounds fall into a totally different category as noted.

This is getting even more hilarious.

Gay people using the exact same rhetoric as homophobes to attack fat people as a class.

We've all seen the homophobic attacks -- gay people aren't a class of people, homosexuality is only perverted SEX ACTS, these people don't deserve civil rights, dignity, understanding and compassion, they just need to stop their deviant BEHAVIOR.

Again, this is really sad.

People who are targets of bigotry and ignorance should really know better than to hurl the exact same garbage on OTHER social out groups.

Mr. Weston, I know you're going to object to this but I find the overall tone of your posts about fat people to be sorely lacking in compassion and understanding of the problem. I know you interact with fat patients in your profession and that in my view makes your attitude even sadder.

That said I am confident very few actual medical experts in overweight and obesity would share that kind of attitude. Why? Because they know more! That's the solution for ignorance -- KNOWLEDGE.

[ToddWeston]

Let me be clear a patient with a medical concern is one issue, and I have great compassion and work with them closely to get some weight off. These are two separate groups.

I don't have a problem, I have anger towards foods we permit into our food chain, children be raised on a fat food diet, fat kids as patients who've turned into fat parents with fat kids, perhaps the obesity rates are lower in countries with socialised medicine because we medical professionals are passionate about the health of our community and have no qualms about saying it as it is with our governments encouragement.

My tone as you refer to is what you will generally get from most in my profession, same tone with smokers (even though I like the odd cigar, same tone with any behaviour that affects your health - stop & change. Of course not if they are for profit trying to sell miracles those are the ones that are you should hold in contempt.

[Scott]

Some off-topic posts have been deleted.

[Jingthing]

Actually, studies have shown fat people are overall treated very poorly and with massive DISCRIMINATION by most medical care systems. I was talking about obesity experts. Everyday doctors it has been shown have a tendency to treat fat patients poorly.

http://www.amednews.com/article/20091123/profession/311239972/4/

Yes doctors can and are bigoted sometimes too.

The same things happen with gay patients and many doctors.

The more specialized doctors KNOW BETTER!

Doctors who specialize in obesity management weren't surprised by the study's findings. "There's no question that for many physicians, there is a lack of respect for overweight and obese patients. Much of that relates to a lack of understanding of what leads to obesity. It's all too common that physicians assume it's a lack of will power," said Patrick McBride, MD, MPH, a professor of family medicine at the University of Wisconsin School of Medicine and Public Health.

If someone come on here spouting a very superficial understanding of overweight and obesity and tries to suggest being associated in some way with the medical profession gives "weight" to their views, sorry, not buying it. More interested in ACTUAL experts.

I do realize so many in the medical profession are very arrogant and don't think they have anything new to learn. Oh well!

More on this. Actually you can find thousands of links on this topic I'm sure.

MDs prefer slender people — and show bias against people who are overweight — just as frequently as the general population, a new study finds. Here's what that means for clinical care.

http://www.everydayhealth.com/weight/1108/doctors-show-bias-against-overweight-patients.aspx

[ToddWeston]

Actually, studies have shown fat people are overall treated very poorly and with massive DISCRIMINATION by most medical care systems. I was talking about obesity experts. Everyday doctors it has been shown have a tendency to treat fat patients poorly.

http://www.amednews.com/article/20091123/profession/311239972/4/

Yes doctors can and are bigoted sometimes too.

The same things happen with gay patients and many doctors.

The more specialized doctors KNOW BETTER!

Doctors who specialize in obesity management weren't surprised by the study's findings. "There's no question that for many physicians, there is a lack of respect for overweight and obese patients. Much of that relates to a lack of understanding of what leads to obesity. It's all too common that physicians assume it's a lack of will power," said Patrick McBride, MD, MPH, a professor of family medicine at the University of Wisconsin School of Medicine and Public Health.

If someone come on here spouting a very superficial understanding of overweight and obesity and tries to suggest being associated in some way with the medical profession gives "weight" to their views, sorry, not buying it. More interested in ACTUAL experts.

I do realize so many in the medical profession are very arrogant and don't think they have anything new to learn. Oh well!

More on this. Actually you can find thousands of links on this topic I'm sure.

MDs prefer slender people and show bias against people who are overweight just as frequently as the general population, a new study finds. Here's what that means for clinical care.

http://www.everydayhealth.com/weight/1108/doctors-show-bias-against-overweight-patients.aspx

I agree the profession is arrogant, I've always known that.

Now we have PC patient groups saying don't use the word obese because it offends and we have to treat this behaviour as a disease, which will lead to more pussyfooting around the issue to avoid confrontation because some will be scared to confront the elephant in the room, am I not supposed to use the word cancer anymore ?

The one label I do support is it's an epidemic and rather than complaining about support or quick cures the vast majority probably could have walked half way around the block in the time it took me to respond.

Anyway this has gone off topic IMO

[Jingthing]

...

IF obesity is not a disease but a choice (my view, in 99%+ of cases, which is why I don't think the above applies and fatties shouldn't be treated in the same way as alcoholics or drug addicts, however equally anti-social they may be) then those who are obese need to take responsibility for their choice.

...

Obesity is not a choice.

Please sir, ask some random obese people if that's how they want to be.

Because of your insistence on that massively flawed POV about choice which simply reflects prejudice and lack of basic knowledge, I don't think there is any point to respond further to your post. Why? Because it's like arguing for gay rights to a fundamentalist. Their prejudices are set. They think they know. Waste of time.

As expected, this notion led to an interesting and extensive discussion with the usual challenges including not least the question why people with obesity cannot simply pull themselves together and make "healthy choices" to overcome their problem.

Well, of course that was the whole point of the symposium - to explain how complex the psychosocial and biological determinants of obesity actually are and why it is that individuals have such a hard time controlling their weight.

...

3) Lack of adequate access to obesity treatments within the health care system is largely a reflection of the continuing bias that obesity is a self-inflicted condition that can be controlled by will-power alone

http://ch-weightwisemd.blogspot.com/2008/03/is-obesity-question-of-choice.html

[anon8]

Obesity was "labelled" a disease for commerical gain and research/grant funds, it's a personal behaviour IMO just as smoking is not a disease.

LOL

[sustento]

Obesity was "labelled" a disease for commerical gain and research/grant funds, it's a personal behaviour IMO just as smoking is not a disease.

LOL

Very erudite...

[robblok]

...

IF obesity is not a disease but a choice (my view, in 99%+ of cases, which is why I don't think the above applies and fatties shouldn't be treated in the same way as alcoholics or drug addicts, however equally anti-social they may be) then those who are obese need to take responsibility for their choice.

...

Obesity is not a choice.

Please sir, ask some random obese people if that's how they want to be.

Because of your insistence on that massively flawed POV about choice which simply reflects prejudice and lack of basic knowledge, I don't think there is any point to respond further to your post. Why? Because it's like arguing for gay rights to a fundamentalist. Their prejudices are set. They think they know. Waste of time.

As expected, this notion led to an interesting and extensive discussion with the usual challenges including not least the question why people with obesity cannot simply pull themselves together and make "healthy choices" to overcome their problem.

Well, of course that was the whole point of the symposium - to explain how complex the psychosocial and biological determinants of obesity actually are and why it is that individuals have such a hard time controlling their weight.

...

3) Lack of adequate access to obesity treatments within the health care system is largely a reflection of the continuing bias that obesity is a self-inflicted condition that can be controlled by will-power alone

http://ch-weightwisemd.blogspot.com/2008/03/is-obesity-question-of-choice.html

Of course its a choice for the majority. There are only a few who have real grounds that they can't help themselves.

Your point with ask an obese person how he wants to be. I am pretty sure that if someone asks me do you want your Thai to be better Id say yes but I wont get there without more training in the language.

Same with obesity they might want to be slim but they are not taking the effort to do so. Sure there are some who have a valid reason but most of them can help themselves by doing more sports and eating less.